Re: report on WAPF conference 2003

[Guest guest]

>>>>>Oh, I'm testament to that! I don't think I've ever shared my

experience with this in much depth, but I will at some point. My physical

health has improved greatly, but I went from nearly psychotic to normal in a

matter of a couple months, completely eradicating a severe and broad complex

of anxiety disorders I'd been battling for 8 years. I feel so very, very

indebted to Sally Fallon for this,

-------->just a thought...but she might like to hear that :-)

at one point during the conference I bumped into her in the ladies room and

thanked her for all that she has done for me, and asked her if she realizes

what a profoundly positive impact she's had on so many lives. i think i

almost got choked up a little...when i really think about the enormity of

the impact that some folks have in our lives in such a positive

manner...it's pretty powerful stuff. i also sometimes think about what an

extraordinary individual weston price was, and how many lives have been

improved and even saved due to the work of these two individuals, as well as

to many other people (Ravnskov, Schmid, maybe Gates for some, or Rubin, etc)

and even laypeople that network with each other, such as ourselves :-) i

consider this to truly be a gift from all these people...and not to mention

the animals who have taught me important life and health lessons as well.

After all, it was my belove minpin Koko who got me started on this path :-)

it's really neat to have the opportunity to tell someone face to face what a

gift they have given you :-)

Suze Fisher

Lapdog Design, Inc.

Web Design & Development

http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg/

mailto:s.fisher22@...

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/9/03 9:41:13 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

s.fisher22@... writes:

> -------->just a thought...but she might like to hear that :-)

I did tell her that last summer. She told me to write them a letter about

it. I just finally got around to it, but I need to edit it big time because

it's way too long. I feel like telling her that again and again, but it

would get repetitive ;-)

It is truly amazing how powerfully people can affect so many people's lives.

I'm thankful to all of you. This list has functioned, I think for a lot of

people, as a network of mutual support, not to mention intellectual

stimulation and entertainment, etc, that make the path a lot easier.

Chris

" To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are

to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and

servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. " --Theodore

Roosevelt

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/9/03 2:27:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

Idol@... writes:

> Well, like I said, I wasn't there, so I didn't hear it. I was just

> guessing based on a very brief description and on some of his articles on

> the WAPF site -- which I do think are a problem.

>

I'm not sure what you're referring to. The Ask the Doctor pieces? Most of

them seem well-grounded and scientific to me. If I'd expect anyone to seem a

little wishy-washy to you it would be Eisenstein (e.g. the ethics of

eating meat)

Chris

" To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are

to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and

servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. " --Theodore

Roosevelt

[Guest guest]

Chris-

Well, like I said, I wasn't there, so I didn't hear it. I was just

guessing based on a very brief description and on some of his articles on

the WAPF site -- which I do think are a problem.

>Geez... it was fun.

-

[Guest guest]

---I was informed by the Veteran's Administration Doc yesterday my

cholesterol is high at 235 mg/dL. HDL was 46 mg/dL and LDL direct

KC,EK was 160 mg/dl. The Doc immediately says, " I'm going to put you

on something....your liver is good...I'll give you ZOCOR. " I told him

I didn't want it and further told him I wanted to talk with the

nutritionist. The dietician informed me butter, lard, coconut oil

and fatty meats cause high cholesterol. And further, she recommends

canola and soy oil. Then I told her about WAPF. And she looked us up

on nutritionnavigator.tufts.....It gave WAPF a poor score on research

technique or research used or something like that. Anyone know what

number is high cholesterol in WAPF land? Any of you ever heard of

nutritionnavigator? They apparently determine who the quacks are.

Dennis

In , Idol <Idol@c...> wrote:

> Suze-

>

> >---------->nope! there are others...

>

> Was there some backlash at the conference, or has there been talk

> elsewhere? The guy clearly has some valuable insights to

contribute, but

> he also seems to peddle a lot of gibberish, and I find that

extremely

> worrisome. As the extreme underdog challenger, the foundation has

to be

> absolutely above reproach, pure and perfect and unassailable in all

its

> words and deeds (even though it'll be endlessly assailed by lies

anyway),

> so a bunch of floofy new wave-speak isn't going to help any.

>

> >personally i don't consider Traditional Chinese Medicine nor

> >homeopathy to be " nonsense " but rather science disciplines,

primarily.

>

> As far as homeopathy goes, I'm kind of an agnostic. It sounds kind

of

> ridiculous, but other things sound ridiculous and turn out to be

true, so

> it's certainly not impossible. BUT it needs to be subjected to

proper

> scientific scrutiny, and in general, it hasn't.

>

> As to TCM, I think it's a mixed bag. There's probably a ton of

value in it

> but there are also a lot of recommendations that fly in the face of

sound

> dietary science, and it's all described and executed rather

metaphorically,

> for lack of a better word. Again, it needs proper investigation,

but

> there's not really any money to fund such investigation, so we're

left in

> an unfortunate position.

>

> >and one more thing, i think spirituality is an important part of

well being,

> >and of healing, in many instances, so i don't dismiss it, nor

think it

> >*needs* to be separated from scientific healing.

>

> Emotional or spiritual health are obviously important, but it's

important

> to be precise, accurate and defendable in discussing them. Take

EFT, for

> example. I think there's something to it, and while the

understanding of

> the mechanism may be seriously lacking, it's something that can be

> tested. There can at least be a pretty clear correlation between

> application and results. But talking about the philosophy of

> capillaries... well, that doesn't sound like an auspicious

direction to me.

>

> As an example, take the treatment of depression. While it might be

> accurate -- at least as a metaphor -- to say that someone who's

depressed

> is out of balance with his environment and needs to restore

harmony, how

> useful is that? And how useful is suggesting that he re-energize

his

> chakras with some heuristic neurotic direct current and eat plenty

of

> eggplant and purple plums because his mood isn't indigo enough?

I'm not

> attributing exactly this sort of thing to Cowan, but I'm not sure

that some

> of what he's written is, in the end, any more useful and

meaningful. And

> rather than all this metaphoric gobbledygook which doesn't even

usefully or

> accurately describe emotional or spiritual health anyway, wouldn't

it be

> more helpful to tell a depressed person to eat a healthy, WAPF-

style diet

> with plenty of saturated animal fats and cholesterol and to also

try some

> bright-light therapy?

>

>

>

> -

[Guest guest]

--- I'm glad you mentioned the Masai diet. That reminded me I

need to point out I'm not eating a strict NT diet. Perhaps I can use

this as a motivator to eliminate more of those processed carbs. Dennis

In , ChrisMasterjohn@a... wrote:

> Dennis,

>

> The current Wise Traditions mentions Tufts Nutrition Navigator as a

possible

> reason why the porn-filtering software that public schools in the

US bars

> both westonaprice.org and realmilk.com!

>

> I read the message board from The International Network of

Cholesterol

> Skeptics a while back and one of the docs suggested a contest to

see who's

> cholesterol was the highest, adding " mine's 300! "

>

> These foods cause a raise in cholesterol and a lowering of

cholesterol in

> some and others. I wouldn't bother checking it except for

amusement. The

> Masai eat nothing but meat blood and milk and average in the 120s

for total

> cholesterol, and they're fine, while an American of European

descent would

> probably be plagued by depression, anxiety disorders, etc, etc, if

their

> cholesterol was that low. My opinion is that what's " normal " is up

to

> individual genetics and impossible to determine an appropriate

range, and

> cholesterol levels should therefore be ignored, especially in the

absence of

> other problems.

>

> Chris

>

>

[Guest guest]

Chris-

>I'm not sure what you're referring to.

Well, naturally I can't find what I was thinking of now, but as I recall,

it was full of spiritual mumbo jumbo. I think someone else commented on

the list, too, but this was awhile ago.

>If I'd expect anyone to seem a

>little wishy-washy to you it would be Eisenstein (e.g. the ethics of

>eating meat)

An article on that subject could be great, since so many people have

ethical or moral objections to eating meat, but yeah, I didn't think that

particular article was very good at all.

-

[Guest guest]

>I was informed by the Veteran's Administration Doc yesterday my

>cholesterol is high at 235 mg/dL. HDL was 46 mg/dL and LDL direct

>KC,EK was 160 mg/dl. The Doc immediately says, " I'm going to put you

>on something

Denis,

Yeah this is a high level and depending on your age somthing to be worried

about.

I also tested at high levels (LDL and HDL both high) and the doc said if

I was older (I'm 36) they would have put me on drugs.

I was worried as I was having chest pains.

So I went to get a 3D CAT scan which shows a computerized 3D image of the

heart and arteries and the amount of plaque build-up. I showed %0 plaque

build-up so I was good to go no problems. Theres nothing like physically

seeing clean arteries for peace of mind.

Highly recommend this test. Here's the company that did it for me you may

have somthing similair in your region

http://www.vitalview.net/

Some people have high cholesterol naturally and don't have any problems.

While I'd like to say WP did it for me, Ive only been on the diet recently

and have eaten the bad stuff most of my life it is in large part genetic

high cholesterol runs in our family and we dont have heart problems.

BTW since Ive been on the new diet my chest pains, whatever caused them,

have gone away.

--

[Guest guest]

> Then I told her about WAPF. And she looked us up

> on nutritionnavigator.tufts.....It gave WAPF a poor score on

> research technique or research used or something like that.

[snip]

> Any of you ever heard of nutritionnavigator? They apparently

> determine who the quacks are.

It was easy enough to find it on google:

http://navigator.tufts.edu/

This is what they had to say about WAPF:

Review Date: April 4th, 2003

Rating: 10 out of 25 (Not Recommended)

Unacceptable Accuracy Rating

Sponsor: Weston A. Price Foundation

Accuracy of Information: 1 out of 10

Depth of Information: 4 out of 7

Site Last Updated: 2 out of 3

User Experience: 3 out of 5

Organization Type: Non-profit

Intended Audience: Consumers

Sections Reviewed: • Basics • Departments

Commentary:

This site promotes the ideas of a 1930's era dentist who believed

that the key to long life--and healthy teeth--is a 'traditional' diet

of meat, whole-fat dairy foods, and organically grown, fermented

grains and vegetables. We understand that some people will be

attracted to this 'back to nature' philosophy that rejects all

processed foods. But, in their zeal to attract new disciples to their

cause, the authors feel the need to refute any nutrition advice that

comes from conventional science. And everything gets bashed here-

-the US Dietary Guidelines, vegetarian diets, soy foods, and even

whole-grain bread.

The articles are written in a technical style that implies that the

authors are providing accurate information, which is not necessarily

the case. They appear to select obscure studies, take study results

out of context, and use undocumented 'facts' from their own

publications to forward their agenda. Although we feel there are many

errors overall, we want to focus on a few of the statements made

repeatedly here that are based on unsound science and are potentially

dangerous.

The authors go into great detail about the health benefits of raw,

non-pasteurized milk. Pasteurization kills bacteria common in all

cows' milk, even in the milk of a cow tied up in your backyard.

Consumption of non-pasteurized milk is a food safety issue that can

have harmful repercussions, especially for small children, elderly

people, and those with a damaged immune system, who are less able to

fight off the effects of food contamination.

The authors advise moms who can't breastfeed to feed their babies a

homemade formula made from either raw cows' milk or a concoction of

ground liver and goats' milk. This flies in the face of what we know

about infant nutrition, in that an infant's kidneys are not able to

handle the large protein molecules in cows' or goats' milk. The

American Academy of Pediatrics states that all children under one

year should consume breast milk or a commercially prepared

iron-fortified infant formula and that " whole cows' milk should not

be used during the first year of life. "

The authors rightfully say that vitamins A and D are an essential

part of a healthful diet, but then go overboard by recommending doses

far outside of current US nutrient guidelines. These vitamins are

stored in the body, and, regardless of what these authors say, large

amounts are considered toxic.

The 'Ask the Doctor' section prescribes home remedies for various

conditions. Most of the advice revolves around a diet that includes

raw milk, butter, and fermented vegetables. There's no solid science

to support a nutritional fix for most of the conditions discussed

here, so PLEASE, if your teen is suffering from acne, don't reject

medical treatment in favor of 'bowel cleansing' and a steady diet of

sauerkraut.

[Guest guest]

--You can eat deep fried " fries " 'til you get full.Out here in the

country fresh fries are reason enough for a party. Check with your

local veterinarian as he has a steady supply generally. Dennis

In , Idol <Idol@c...> wrote:

> Chris-

>

> Boy, heck if I know. That's why I've only eaten small amounts on a

couple

> occasions. I have no idea what a safe dose is, let alone what

amount with

> what frequency would be beneficial. But I believe they're often

called

> " fries " because in some parts of the country, they were a

traditional dish

> served fried, and I think people would eat at least one whole fry

at a

> time. But maybe they're stronger stuff raw.

>

> >By the way, what amount of " fries " is safe to eat raw in one

> >sitting?

>

>

>

> -