Re: menu plans and weightloss

[Guest guest]

>If you have , could you please give me some menu plans, or typical days

>fare, so I have some kind of idea where to get started? I have 85 pounds to

>loose. I have been trying to eat VERY low carb, Go which is almost the same

>as Atkins, but you drink Kefir, and eat yogurt.

I have been losing weight, but I'm using the " Quantum Physics Diet " . That is,

when you observe something, it changes. In this case, I'm observing my

diet (by tracking it carefully, and paying attention to what works for ME).

For me, what is working right now is a diet higher in fat, but not so low

in carbs as Atkins describes. I start out with a big breakfast, 2 eggs,

7oz or so of hashbrowns, fried in good goose fat (previously described)

and about a half cup of kimchi. THAT sets the tone of the day. If I skip

breakfast, the day is shot!

Lunch is about 4 oz of meat and some vegies, and more kimchi. Olive

oil usually, unless the meat is fat (today we had smoked ribs!). The vegies

are usually salad or green beans or broccoli, with spices and oil. Sometimes

I have some starches, sometimes not. I always have kimchi. Kimchi is

magic -- I think it does something with your blood sugar, but mainly

it makes the meal " feel right " .

Dinner is usually just meat and greens w. oil/garlic, I try to avoid starches.

I still have kimchi though.

About 11 pm I have some wine and some rice crackers topped with oil and

dried onion, maybe with some lox. And some wine and/or water kefir.

I have not been drinking milk kefir lately, as part of an experiment.

This comes to about 1600 calories a day, and about 1/2 lb a week weight

loss. I also do weight lifting, and on the Tanita scale at least, I've been

gaining lean mass and losing fat (and feeling great!).

I'm sure there are ways to lose fat faster, but I'm not sure I want to.

I'd rather enjoy life right now, for one thing. For another, fat stores

toxins (not the liver, as is commonly believed) and when you lose

weight you body has to deal with the toxins. This process kills

Orcas, and tends to make me ill, so I think slower is better!

But I'd highly recommend tracking what works FOR YOU. That

is the only weight loss program that has been proven to work.

Everyone has " favorite foods " and everyone has a different

metabolism.

Heidi S

[Guest guest]

Zahra-

The idea that you need plenty of carbs for your thyroid is a crock.

If you are hypothyroid, then any weight loss program, even including

Atkins, will be more difficult and may fail completely, so taking care of

the problem should be a high priority.

Did you gain the weight back because you increased your carb intake? If

so, just lower your carb consumption until you start losing at a reasonable

rate. It's possible to eat low-carb and NT -- you just eat in the

intersection of the two diets, making sure all your fats and meats and

whatnot are healthy and prepared the NT way and avoiding the high-carb

foods in NT. I've lost a good deal of weight this way myself.

>I have been doing this, more than two months. I lost 20 pounds the first

>month, and this last month, I have gained it back. I don't know why. I have

>stuck with it, and I am going crazy. I know my thyroid is a little low, adn

>I know the thyroid needs some carbs to work off of, so that might be it. All

>I know, is I have to lose this weight, and I will take any help that anyone

-

[Guest guest]

Hi Zahra,

I'd like to see the response to your questions as well. I had baby

#6, 5 months ago and gained a lot of weight with this pregnancy when I

switched to an NT diet from a raw vegan diet when I found out I was

pregnant. I now have over 100 lbs. to lose and I have been doing an

Atkins style NT diet for the past 6 weeks. The month before starting

Atkins I began to reduce my carbs until I felt comfortable eating only

20 carbs per day and I began Induction on March 1st. The disappointing

thing for me is I haven't lost any weight eating a low-carb diet. I'm

using those lipolysis test stripes that says I'm in ketosis and my tape

measurer says I have lost some inches, but according to the scales I

haven't lost a thing. My girls even told me for all my efforts I'm not

losing the weight like I have in the past. I lost over 85 lbs. after

baby #5 on a raw vegan diet, but I ended up with some health problems

after a few years eating that way. Now, I'm torn to going back to my

old way of eating to lose the weight, but I'm worried about running into

health issues again. I'm just as frustrated about what to do, as I hate

being fat and want to feel and look good again.

I quit drinking kefir and eating yogurt, because I figured the

carb content was to high for a low carb diet. I also had my thyroid

checked before I started dieting and it was normal. Chapter 20 in

Atkins' book deals with high resistance to weight lose, but none of

those problems seem to apply to me. I know there has been a lot of

discussion on here about Metabolic Typing. I'm just wondering if I'm

more of a mixed/carbo type and why I could lose weight on a raw vegan

diet vs a high protein diet like Atkins, I'm probably not a protein

type. ???

Robin

<< Hi

  Could anyone please help me? I would liek to know if anyone eating

according to Nurturing traditions, has lost a significant amount of

weight?

  If you have , could you please give me some menu plans, or typical

days fare, so I have some kind of idea where to get started? I have 85

pounds to loose. I have been trying to eat VERY low carb, Go which is

almost the same as Atkins, but you drink Kefir, and eat yogurt. I have

been doing this, more than two months. I lost 20 pounds the first month,

and this last month, I have gained it back. I don't know why. I have

stuck with it, and I am going crazy. I know my thyroid is a little low,

adn I know the thyroid needs some carbs to work off of, so that might be

it. All I know, is I have to lose this weight, and I will take any help

that anyone might offer me.

thanks For your help in advance!

Zahra>>

THE WORD OF GOD IS THE CREATION WE BEHOLD: And it is in this word, which

no human invention can counterfeit or alter, that God speaketh

universally to man.

~ Paine Age of Reason

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

This is what I would like to do, eat NT and low carb. The problem is my new

book hasn't shown up yet, and I don';t know everything I am suppossed to be

doing.

Do you have any examples of food for a day? I don't know what I am suppossed

to eat anymore. help!

BTW I am not sure if my carbs went up or not. I ate whatever I felt like it

today, adn tomorrow, I wil eat low carb plus some oats etc. then go back to

low carb day after. Thanks again

:-)

Thanks

ZAhra

In a message dated 4/15/03 9:20:43 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

Idol@... writes:

> Did you gain the weight back because you increased your carb intake? If

> so, just lower your carb consumption until you start losing at a reasonable

>

> rate. It's possible to eat low-carb and NT -- you just eat in the

> intersection of the two diets, making sure all your fats and meats and

> whatnot are healthy and prepared the NT way and avoiding the high-carb

> foods in NT. I've lost a good deal of weight this way myself.

" If Hussain fought to quench his worldly desires,

then I do not understand why his sisters, wives and children accompanied him.

It stands to reason

therefore that he sacrificed purely for Islam. "

- Dickens

[Guest guest]

Hi Robin,

Have you ever seen the Go-diet? ggo to wwww.godiet.com

It is low carb, adn it tells you how to eat low carb while eating good carbs

like yogurt and kefir.

This is part of why I like it.

:-)

ZAhra

In a message dated 4/15/03 12:29:11 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

Nest4Robin@... writes:

> I'm just wondering if I'm

> more of a mixed/carbo type and why I could lose weight on a raw vegan

> diet vs a high protein diet like Atkins, I'm probably not a protein

> type. ???

> Robin

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hey Zahra,

I looked over that www.go-diet.com site. You have to have the hyphen in

the addy. Her diet is more like the Schwarzbein Principle for carb count. I

tried TSP for a month, but didn't feel it was low carb enough to lose weight, so

I switched to Atkins. He explains about having a low enough carb count to get

into lipolysis to burn fat and how to add back carbs without going outside of

that to maintain weight loss. However, even with Atkins lower carb count I'm

still not having much success losing weight. I wish the go-diet site would

explain why she allows kefir and yogurt. I'd still think they are fairly high

carb foods. I make kefir everyday for making my baby's formula, but I quit

drinking it when I started low carb dieting. Dryad once mentioned about

drinking kefir on a low carb diet, but I'd like to understand why it's different

than milk carb wise.

I'm almost wondering if I should try no-carbs for a while to jump start

some weight lose. Otherwise, I may be tempted to go back to a natural hygiene

diet. I lost a lot of weight on a raw vegan diet, but I'm worried what it may do

to my health.

Robin

> Hi Robin,

> Have you ever seen the Go-diet? ggo to wwww.godiet.com

> It is low carb, adn it tells you how to eat low carb while eating good carbs

> like yogurt and kefir.

> This is part of why I like it.

> :-)

> ZAhra

>

> In a message dated 4/15/03 12:29:11 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

> Nest4Robin@w... writes:

>

>

> > I'm just wondering if I'm

> > more of a mixed/carbo type and why I could lose weight on a raw vegan

> > diet vs a high protein diet like Atkins, I'm probably not a protein

> > type. ???

> > Robin

> >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi, My sympathies to both of you, as I am trying to figure out how to get rid of

extra weight too. I was successful with Protein Power a few years back, but

gained it all back with a pregnancy. I can't make myself go back on without

falling off within 3 weeks, if I make it that long. Have you read the

Schwarzbein Priciple 2? She has a moderately reduced carb diet plan. She

clamis that we need to eat to get healthy and that when we have restored our

health the weight will come off. Her plan is compatable with NT. She claims

that some people in her medical practice may take a year of healthy eating

before they begin to shrink. One idea I have been thinking about is that if we

are in a state of unhealthyness, restricitng our dietary intake might also

restrict our intake of nutrients. A basic day on Schwarzbein makes sense .

Protein, Vegatables, Fat and the amount of carbs that are right for you at each

meal. She recommends that people avoid as many processed carbs as possible, so

instead of bread you get more fruits and veggies. It seems pretty straight

forward. I just wish I had what it takes to stay on track! HTH. Maureen

Nest4Robin@... wrote:Hi Zahra,

I'd like to see the response to your questions as well. I had baby

#6, 5 months ago and gained a lot of weight with this pregnancy when I

switched to an NT diet from a raw vegan diet when I found out I was

pregnant. I now have over 100 lbs. to lose and I have been doing an

Atkins style NT diet for the past 6 weeks. The month before starting

Atkins I began to reduce my carbs until I felt comfortable eating only

20 carbs per day and I began Induction on March 1st. The disappointing

thing for me is I haven't lost any weight eating a low-carb diet. I'm

using those lipolysis test stripes that says I'm in ketosis and my tape

measurer says I have lost some inches, but according to the scales I

haven't lost a thing. My girls even told me for all my efforts I'm not

losing the weight like I have in the past. I lost over 85 lbs. after

baby #5 on a raw vegan diet, but I ended up with some health problems

after a few years eating that way. Now, I'm torn to going back to my

old way of eating to lose the weight, but I'm worried about running into

health issues again. I'm just as frustrated about what to do, as I hate

being fat and want to feel and look good again.

I quit drinking kefir and eating yogurt, because I figured the

carb content was to high for a low carb diet. I also had my thyroid

checked before I started dieting and it was normal. Chapter 20 in

Atkins' book deals with high resistance to weight lose, but none of

those problems seem to apply to me. I know there has been a lot of

discussion on here about Metabolic Typing. I'm just wondering if I'm

more of a mixed/carbo type and why I could lose weight on a raw vegan

diet vs a high protein diet like Atkins, I'm probably not a protein

type. ???

Robin

<< Hi

Could anyone please help me? I would liek to know if anyone eating

according to Nurturing traditions, has lost a significant amount of

weight?

If you have , could you please give me some menu plans, or typical

days fare, so I have some kind of idea where to get started? I have 85

pounds to loose. I have been trying to eat VERY low carb, Go which is

almost the same as Atkins, but you drink Kefir, and eat yogurt. I have

been doing this, more than two months. I lost 20 pounds the first month,

and this last month, I have gained it back. I don't know why. I have

stuck with it, and I am going crazy. I know my thyroid is a little low,

adn I know the thyroid needs some carbs to work off of, so that might be

it. All I know, is I have to lose this weight, and I will take any help

that anyone might offer me.

thanks For your help in advance!

Zahra>>

THE WORD OF GOD IS THE CREATION WE BEHOLD: And it is in this word, which

no human invention can counterfeit or alter, that God speaketh

universally to man.

~ Paine Age of Reason

[Guest guest]

Hi Lynn!

Would you please email me what you have? thanks!! :-)

Zahra

In a message dated 4/16/03 6:04:45 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

LynnClarice@... writes:

> ). I've designed a work sheet and food tables to make the

> micro-management stage as easy as possible....which I could e-mail to you

> if you would like.

>

> Take Care,

> Lynn

>

>

>

" If Hussain fought to quench his worldly desires,

then I do not understand why his sisters, wives and children accompanied him.

It stands to reason

therefore that he sacrificed purely for Islam. "

- Dickens

[Guest guest]

Hi Zahra,

I too have been trying to shed some weight while eating NT/low carb. I wish I

was responding with some great advice ......unfortunetley I'm not there

yet...but I think I'm on the right path...I've done much research and spent alot

of money/time trying to figure out why I cannot lose my extra weight. The

education, excitement, joy and companionship I have gotten from being part of

this list is.....well.....priceless! and I thank all of you for being here and

offering so much of yourselves!!

.......I was a long-term semi-vegetarian when I ran into NT about 2 yrs ago.

Almost overnight I drastically changed my diet to include signficantly more

protein and fat. Several health issues dissapeared!. I feel GREAT, I sleep well

and am ecstatic about my health in general. My only dilemma is I put on around

40lbs and I cannot seem to get rid of it. Some days I am tempted to return to

low fat, low calorie just to lose some weight! My research took me to see Dr.

Schwrazbien herself.(about a year ago)......I've also experimented with The Diet

Cure by Ross, Atkins, and most recently Homo Optimus (The Optimal Diet) by

Jan Kwasniewski (a Polish doctor). I've been corresponding with an Australian

doctor who promotes this type of diet,(high fat; med protein, low carb)

Currently my weightloss formula is 40gms of protein, 80-100gms of fat; 30 gms of

carbs. I eat little to no carbs during day, saving it until end of day (about

hour before bed) to be eaten alone, (Kwasniewski's advise for people who do not

lose weight easliy after adopting his diet). I needed to micro-manage my diet

for awhile to accomplish this...not easy for me and my life...now I micro-manage

a day here and there. I've combined NT and the " Optimal Diet " ...I eat/drink raw

(tart) Kefir, raw butter, eggs, grass fed meat, liver (very rare...haven't

braved the raw yet), pastured pork, cultured veg's, kombucha, etc. My evening

carb is usually a potate and kimchi. I'm never hungry! I'm just getting

started on the " SlowBurn " weightlifting program as well as the 5 Rites. I feel

absolutely great...I've lost about 10lbs over the past 7-8 weeks. (I'm 44, 5'3 " )

Things seem to finally be going in the right direction!! It also could be

" time " ....Kwasnieski states your body needs to build/

replace the enzymes used for energy derived from carbs with new enzymes that

will utilize fats as a primary source of " energy " or something like that!! (the

older & more unhealthy you are the longer this takes). I've designed a work

sheet and food tables to make the micro-management stage as easy as

possible....which I could e-mail to you if you would like.

Take Care,

Lynn

[Guest guest]

Robin,

I read your post and saw that you make kefir for your babies

formula. I am trying to do the same. Could you please give me some

background on your success with the formula if you have a minute. I

have 9 month old twins. ONe has a dairy allergy and I cannot get raw

milk. I would love any feedback. I am in Texas and do not know of a

single person to turn to for advice. My pediatrician went through

the roof and our relationship has not been the same. Kim

> Hey Zahra,

> I looked over that www.go-diet.com site. You have to have the

hyphen in the addy. Her diet is more like the Schwarzbein Principle

for carb count. I tried TSP for a month, but didn't feel it was low

carb enough to lose weight, so I switched to Atkins. He explains

about having a low enough carb count to get into lipolysis to burn

fat and how to add back carbs without going outside of that to

maintain weight loss. However, even with Atkins lower carb count I'm

still not having much success losing weight. I wish the go-diet site

would explain why she allows kefir and yogurt. I'd still think they

are fairly high carb foods. I make kefir everyday for making my

baby's formula, but I quit drinking it when I started low carb

dieting. Dryad once mentioned about drinking kefir on a low carb

diet, but I'd like to understand why it's different than milk carb

wise.

> I'm almost wondering if I should try no-carbs for a while to

jump start some weight lose. Otherwise, I may be tempted to go back

to a natural hygiene diet. I lost a lot of weight on a raw vegan

diet, but I'm worried what it may do to my health.

> Robin

>

> --- In , lavenderandsagez@a...

wrote:

> > Hi Robin,

> > Have you ever seen the Go-diet? ggo to wwww.godiet.com

> > It is low carb, adn it tells you how to eat low carb while eating

good carbs

> > like yogurt and kefir.

> > This is part of why I like it.

> > :-)

> > ZAhra

> >

> > In a message dated 4/15/03 12:29:11 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

> > Nest4Robin@w... writes:

> >

> >

> > > I'm just wondering if I'm

> > > more of a mixed/carbo type and why I could lose weight on a raw

vegan

> > > diet vs a high protein diet like Atkins, I'm probably not a

protein

> > > type. ???

> > > Robin

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Lynne-

>Currently my weightloss formula is 40gms of protein, 80-100gms of fat; 30

>gms of carbs. I eat little to no carbs during day, saving it until end of

>day (about hour before bed) to be eaten alone, (Kwasniewski's adv

>ise for people who do not!

> lose weight easliy after adopting his diet).

I'm not positive, but I think your problem is actually that you're not

eating enough. By my calculations, you're eating around 1090

calories. Now, true, I don't know how tall you are, what type of body and

metabolism you have and so on, but that just seems like starvation rations

for just about anyone, and calorie restriction tells the body to go into

starvation mode, which precludes optimum health and weight loss.

Also, I'm not convinced lumping your carbs together at the end of the day

(or at any time of the day) is helpful either. First, I always found that

my body did its actual weight losing overnight, so giving it a bunch of

carbs at the end of the day would seem likely to be a hindrance rather than

a help. And second, by having all your carbs at once, you're intensifying

the insulin reaction rather than diminishing it and spreading it out.

And as always, I'd suggest looking into possible thyroid problems,

particularly in light of the new revisions to TSH guidelines.

-

[Guest guest]

Hi Lynn,

40 gm protein sounds pretty borderline to me. I'm aiming for 70 gm - I'm

5'2 " , not overweight. It might pay to watch your appetite rather than the

numbers. If you get adequate protein at each meal, and plenty of low cal

veggies, laced with a reasonable dose of fat, and don't eat unless you are

genuinely hungry, and no more than makes you feel satisfied, you may find

your weight gradually heading toward a healthy weight, which may be stockier

than you were before.

Are you using unrefined coconut oil? They claim that is an especially good

source of fat for weight control.

http://www.coconutoil-online.com/

Peace,

Kris , gardening in harmony with nature in northwest Ohio

To learn more check out our Web site:

http://home.woh.rr.com/billkrisjohnson/

..

Re: Re: menu plans and weightloss

> Hi Zahra,

>

> I too have been trying to shed some weight while eating NT/low carb. I

wish I was responding with some great advice ......unfortunetley I'm not

there yet...but I think I'm on the right path...I've done much research and

spent alot of money/time trying to figure out why I cannot lose my extra

weight. The education, excitement, joy and companionship I have gotten from

being part of this list is.....well.....priceless! and I thank all of you

for being here and offering so much of yourselves!!

>

> ......I was a long-term semi-vegetarian when I ran into NT about 2 yrs

ago. Almost overnight I drastically changed my diet to include signficantly

more protein and fat. Several health issues dissapeared!. I feel GREAT, I

sleep well and am ecstatic about my health in general. My only dilemma is I

put on around 40lbs and I cannot seem to get rid of it. Some days I am

tempted to return to low fat, low calorie just to lose some weight! My

research took me to see Dr. Schwrazbien herself.(about a year ago)......I've

also experimented with The Diet Cure by Ross, Atkins, and most

recently Homo Optimus (The Optimal Diet) by Jan Kwasniewski (a Polish

doctor). I've been corresponding with an Australian doctor who promotes

this type of diet,(high fat; med protein, low carb) Currently my weightloss

formula is 40gms of protein, 80-100gms of fat; 30 gms of carbs. I eat little

to no carbs during day, saving it until end of day (about hour before bed)

to be eaten alone, (Kwasniewski's advise for people who do not lose weight

easliy after adopting his diet). I needed to micro-manage my diet for

awhile to accomplish this...not easy for me and my life...now I micro-manage

a day here and there. I've combined NT and the " Optimal Diet " ...I eat/drink

raw (tart) Kefir, raw butter, eggs, grass fed meat, liver (very

rare...haven't braved the raw yet), pastured pork, cultured veg's, kombucha,

etc. My evening carb is usually a potate and kimchi. I'm never hungry!

I'm just getting started on the " SlowBurn " weightlifting program as well as

the 5 Rites. I feel absolutely great...I've lost about 10lbs over the past

7-8 weeks. (I'm 44, 5'3 " ) Things seem to finally be going in the right

direction!! It also could be " time " ....Kwasnieski states your body needs

to build/

> replace the enzymes used for energy derived from carbs with new enzymes

that will utilize fats as a primary source of " energy " or something like

that!! (the older & more unhealthy you are the longer this takes). I've

designed a work sheet and food tables to make the micro-management stage as

easy as possible....which I could e-mail to you if you would like.

>

> Take Care,

> Lynn

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

>I'm almost wondering if I should try no-carbs for a while to jump start

>some weight lose. Otherwise, I may be tempted to go back to a natural

>hygiene diet. I lost a lot of weight on a raw vegan diet, but I'm worried

>what it may do to my health.

>Robin

I did a systematic study of diets, and the only one that really

consistently worked for people is when the person designed their own diets,

and did the old-fashioned calorie counting. Not to starve themselves ...

just keep track of calories, carbs, fats, protein, and then decide what

works FOR YOU. If you really feel like pigging out, track WHY you need to

(did you not eat for 8 hours and now you are starved, perhaps?) and how you

felt after you pigged out. If you get really hungry, figure out what amount

of food and what type really works when you get those hunger pangs.

I've been on every diet in the book, and this works the best for me. It's a

little more work, but you are in control, and the weight loss has been

consistent, and I'm never hungry and I can work out and I'm gaining tons of

strength and muscle. But it's not like " being on a diet " -- it's more like

figuring out " how to feed Heidi so she feels good. " What portions work

best? What digests well? I found that I was eating a lot of junk I don't

even LIKE, just out of some sort of habit. Now I eat the food I really like

-- hashbrowns and bacon and ribs are turning into favorites, as is kimchi

and good salads with lots of garlic -- and I really enjoy meals a lot more.

I try to avoid too many starches in the evening (when they are more likely

to be stored as fat) and get some good muscle-building in too.

Last time I lost weight I got 2-3 migraines a week (from lack of nutrients

or from toxins released by fat breakdown?) and my skin got dry, and if I

ever ate anything not on the diet I gained 5 lbs immediately. This time my

health has improved immensely, and I can't " go off " the diet, because there

is no diet. But it's difficult for me to eat much sugar/cake/etc. because

it's not my favorite stuff anymore.

Inside of you is a very wonderful chemistry lab that knows exactly what is

in every bit of food you eat, and it knows all about insulin and hormones

and everything else. It knows how to make you skinny and how much food you

have to eat. Now all you have to do is tap into that -- no book on earth

can really tell you what you need.

Heidi S

[Guest guest]

Hi, What is slow burn and 5 rites? Any info on them on the web? Thanks, Jafa

Lynn <LynnClarice@...> wrote:Hi Zahra,

I too have been trying to shed some weight while eating NT/low carb. I wish I

was responding with some great advice ......unfortunetley I'm not there

yet...but I think I'm on the right path...I've done much research and spent alot

of money/time trying to figure out why I cannot lose my extra weight. The

education, excitement, joy and companionship I have gotten from being part of

this list is.....well.....priceless! and I thank all of you for being here and

offering so much of yourselves!!

.......I was a long-term semi-vegetarian when I ran into NT about 2 yrs ago.

Almost overnight I drastically changed my diet to include signficantly more

protein and fat. Several health issues dissapeared!. I feel GREAT, I sleep well

and am ecstatic about my health in general. My only dilemma is I put on around

40lbs and I cannot seem to get rid of it. Some days I am tempted to return to

low fat, low calorie just to lose some weight! My research took me to see Dr.

Schwrazbien herself.(about a year ago)......I've also experimented with The Diet

Cure by Ross, Atkins, and most recently Homo Optimus (The Optimal Diet) by

Jan Kwasniewski (a Polish doctor). I've been corresponding with an Australian

doctor who promotes this type of diet,(high fat; med protein, low carb)

Currently my weightloss formula is 40gms of protein, 80-100gms of fat; 30 gms of

carbs. I eat little to no carbs during day, saving it until end of day (about

hour before bed) to be eaten alone, (Kwasniewski's advise for people who do not

lose weight easliy after adopting his diet). I needed to micro-manage my diet

for awhile to accomplish this...not easy for me and my life...now I micro-manage

a day here and there. I've combined NT and the " Optimal Diet " ...I eat/drink raw

(tart) Kefir, raw butter, eggs, grass fed meat, liver (very rare...haven't

braved the raw yet), pastured pork, cultured veg's, kombucha, etc. My evening

carb is usually a potate and kimchi. I'm never hungry! I'm just getting

started on the " SlowBurn " weightlifting program as well as the 5 Rites. I feel

absolutely great...I've lost about 10lbs over the past 7-8 weeks. (I'm 44, 5'3 " )

Things seem to finally be going in the right direction!! It also could be

" time " ....Kwasnieski states your body needs to build/

replace the enzymes used for energy derived from carbs with new enzymes that

will utilize fats as a primary source of " energy " or something like that!! (the

older & more unhealthy you are the longer this takes). I've designed a work

sheet and food tables to make the micro-management stage as easy as

possible....which I could e-mail to you if you would like.

Take Care,

Lynn

[Guest guest]

Heidi's method of finding out what works best for you sounds an awful

lot like the concepts in a book called Intuitive Eating. It might be

worth checking it out from the library.

Ghislaine

PS> Zahra, welcome to the list!

[Guest guest]

Hi Lynn,

On the contrary, I found your post helpful. I too gained weight

when I changed to NT, but of course I found out I was pregnant when

I first learned of NT. I thought it would be easier to lose weight

after having the baby, but perhaps as you said my body may need

additional healing time on the NT diet before the weight lose can

occur. I'm pushing 40 and I had run into health issues before I

learned of NT and then it was compounded with a pregnancy.

I liked your suggestion of saving your carbs for the end of the

day. Could you expand on why the Polish doctor recommends this for

those that have a difficult time losing weight? I've read The

Schwarzbein Principle, The Diet Cure, The Metabolic Typing Diet,

Atkins, but I haven't heard of Kwasniewski's The Optimal Diet. They

all appear to be similar with some variations. I've been eating

between 20-25 grams carbs, with 65-75% of my diet being fat and

aprox. 24% of my diet being protein, but I haven't been able to lose

any weight eating this way. Therefore, I too have been tempted to

return to a Low-fat Natural Hygiene diet. I was thinking more in

lines of a Dr. Bass style NH diet, because he includes animal

sources. I just feel so lost with this weight loss thing and

wanting to retain my health. It's pretty darn frustrating! My kids

miss all the fruits we use to eat, but they don't want me going back

to the raw vegan diet, because I looked sick and colorless to them.

Others have told me that as well. Would you please send me your

work sheet for micro-management. You can e-mail it to

Nest4Robin@...

Thanks,

Robin

> Hi Zahra,

>

> I too have been trying to shed some weight while eating NT/low

carb. I wish I was responding with some great

advice ......unfortunetley I'm not there yet...but I think I'm on

the right path...I've done much research and spent alot of

money/time trying to figure out why I cannot lose my extra weight.

The education, excitement, joy and companionship I have gotten from

being part of this list is.....well.....priceless! and I thank all

of you for being here and offering so much of yourselves!!

>

> ......I was a long-term semi-vegetarian when I ran into NT about 2

yrs ago. Almost overnight I drastically changed my diet to include

signficantly more protein and fat. Several health issues

dissapeared!. I feel GREAT, I sleep well and am ecstatic about my

health in general. My only dilemma is I put on around 40lbs and I

cannot seem to get rid of it. Some days I am tempted to return to

low fat, low calorie just to lose some weight! My research took me

to see Dr. Schwrazbien herself.(about a year ago)......I've also

experimented with The Diet Cure by Ross, Atkins, and most

recently Homo Optimus (The Optimal Diet) by Jan Kwasniewski (a

Polish doctor). I've been corresponding with an Australian doctor

who promotes this type of diet,(high fat; med protein, low carb)

Currently my weightloss formula is 40gms of protein, 80-100gms of

fat; 30 gms of carbs. I eat little to no carbs during day, saving it

until end of day (about hour before bed) to be eaten alone,

(Kwasniewski's advise for people who do not lose weight easliy after

adopting his diet). I needed to micro-manage my diet for awhile to

accomplish this...not easy for me and my life...now I micro-manage a

day here and there. I've combined NT and the " Optimal Diet " ...I

eat/drink raw (tart) Kefir, raw butter, eggs, grass fed meat, liver

(very rare...haven't braved the raw yet), pastured pork, cultured

veg's, kombucha, etc. My evening carb is usually a potate and

kimchi. I'm never hungry! I'm just getting started on

the " SlowBurn " weightlifting program as well as the 5 Rites. I feel

absolutely great...I've lost about 10lbs over the past 7-8 weeks.

(I'm 44, 5'3 " ) Things seem to finally be going in the right

direction!! It also could be " time " ....Kwasnieski states your body

needs to build/

> replace the enzymes used for energy derived from carbs with new

enzymes that will utilize fats as a primary source of " energy " or

something like that!! (the older & more unhealthy you are the longer

this takes). I've designed a work sheet and food tables to make

the micro-management stage as easy as possible....which I could e-

mail to you if you would like.

>

> Take Care,

> Lynn

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

>I liked your suggestion of saving your carbs for the end of the

>day. Could you expand on why the Polish doctor recommends this for

>those that have a difficult time losing weight?

That IS a different suggestion. Most people are recommending

the opposite -- Cliff Sheats (who has lots of practical suggestions)

says that women who have problems with fat retention should

avoid starches after 6 pm. Starches are best used for energy,

and most of us do little work in the evening (when we are

winding down). My weight loss works much better with

starches in the morning and noon only.

Carbs like raw carrots or apples don't seem to put on

weight for anyone -- there is low bioavailability in raw

fruit and vegies (there was a whole article about how

cooking made it possible for our ancestors to get

more calories!).

And lower-fat diets DO work in the short run --

maybe because to handle the protein the body

has to raid it's fat stores? Low fat plus coconut

oil or MCT (a part of coconut oil, not as healthy

but good for weight loss) works too.

Anyway, you might try a combo between the vegan

ways that worked (but made you sick) and the NT

ways that make you healthy (but might put on

weight). Eat NT in the morning to get the energy,

the switch to raw fruits and vegies and leaner meats

in the evening. Or something like that.

Heidi S

[Guest guest]

I don't think I'm very good at the design your own type of diet.

What I have found that works for me to lose weight isn't very

healthy for me in the long run. I rarely have cravings or pig out

and the extent of my 'junk' food is not always being able to obtain

organic. I've been on a ton of diets myself since I've was a teen

and the only success I've ever had at losing weight is the raw vegan

one. The only cravings I did have on that diet was for chips and

salsa. I haven't craved chips and salsa since I've added back

animal sources into my diet. I use to eat a lot of avocados too,

but I rarely eat those anymore either. Therefore, would you say I

mainly lacked fat and sodium? I now eat between 65-75% fat and I

use Real Salt on my foods. Now, I crave fruits since all you get on

the Atkins diet is berries occasionally. I use to basically live on

fruits and really miss the juicy, sweetness of them. Summer is

coming and all I can think about is all the fruits I love and use to

eat in abundance. I slimmed down eating them too, but I get the

impression from all that I've read since learning of NT, that eating

fruit like that is wrong. I'm just really getting tired of eating

eggs, cheese and meat all of the time and so are my kids. Although,

I'm not hungry eating this way either.

BTW, originally I wasn't to fond of kim chee, but I found a jar of

it I made last spring in the back of the frig. down stairs. I

opened it the other night, it smelled good, so I ate some of it and

it was the best! I guess I have to let it set for a long time for

it to taste right to me. Now, I'm thinking I should make some more,

so I have it for next spring.

Robin

>

> >I'm almost wondering if I should try no-carbs for a while to jump

start

> >some weight lose. Otherwise, I may be tempted to go back to a

natural

> >hygiene diet. I lost a lot of weight on a raw vegan diet, but I'm

worried

> >what it may do to my health.

> >Robin

>

> I did a systematic study of diets, and the only one that really

> consistently worked for people is when the person designed their

own diets,

> and did the old-fashioned calorie counting. Not to starve

themselves ...

> just keep track of calories, carbs, fats, protein, and then decide

what

> works FOR YOU. If you really feel like pigging out, track WHY you

need to

> (did you not eat for 8 hours and now you are starved, perhaps?)

and how you

> felt after you pigged out. If you get really hungry, figure out

what amount

> of food and what type really works when you get those hunger pangs.

>

> I've been on every diet in the book, and this works the best for

me. It's a

> little more work, but you are in control, and the weight loss has

been

> consistent, and I'm never hungry and I can work out and I'm

gaining tons of

> strength and muscle. But it's not like " being on a diet " -- it's

more like

> figuring out " how to feed Heidi so she feels good. " What portions

work

> best? What digests well? I found that I was eating a lot of junk I

don't

> even LIKE, just out of some sort of habit. Now I eat the food I

really like

> -- hashbrowns and bacon and ribs are turning into favorites, as is

kimchi

> and good salads with lots of garlic -- and I really enjoy meals a

lot more.

> I try to avoid too many starches in the evening (when they are

more likely

> to be stored as fat) and get some good muscle-building in too.

>

> Last time I lost weight I got 2-3 migraines a week (from lack of

nutrients

> or from toxins released by fat breakdown?) and my skin got dry,

and if I

> ever ate anything not on the diet I gained 5 lbs immediately. This

time my

> health has improved immensely, and I can't " go off " the diet,

because there

> is no diet. But it's difficult for me to eat much sugar/cake/etc.

because

> it's not my favorite stuff anymore.

>

> Inside of you is a very wonderful chemistry lab that knows exactly

what is

> in every bit of food you eat, and it knows all about insulin and

hormones

> and everything else. It knows how to make you skinny and how much

food you

> have to eat. Now all you have to do is tap into that -- no book on

earth

> can really tell you what you need.

>

>

> Heidi S

[Guest guest]

Hi and all,

Thanks for your advice! One of my biggest issues has been (still is) the

" correct amount of food to eat " Too much regardless of food type will cause

weight gain (or at least no weight loss)...whereas too little will undermine

metabolism, slowing it down, etc. I could not seem to " lose " weight on

Schwarzbein's plan....with her exuberent encouragement I cont'd (8mo.)...if I

had exercised more it may have worked better....I started the optimal diet (for

weightloss) at a higher level (60g protein, 90-120g fat, 20-30g carbs)....The

amount of protein recommended regardless of needing to lose weight is 1Gram per

1 KG of " ideal " body weight. Therefore the macronutrient ratio for weightloss

is: 1:2:.5 (P:F:C)....moving to a ratio of 1 : 2.5-3.5 : .5-.8 once a " normal,

low weight, has been achieved. Initially I ate even when I was not hungry

trying to eat the amount food planned.....my last consultation was to lower the

protein a little, keep the fat around a 100gm and eat " only when

hungry " ...allowing my body to learn to burn my own fat.....but responding to

feelings of hunger that the body needs some good nutrition for optimal

funtioning!

Looking back I think one of my mistakes was eating too much

fat/protein...especially fat...it tasted soooo %$#!* & GOOD after so many years

of " low-fat!! "

Anyway...I'm going to keep plugging along. I agree that everyone needs to find

what works for them....which is especially difficult when the normal, healthy

feedback mechanism (appetite vs need) is broken and needs to be fixed

.....combined with the added stress of our culture!

My goal is to heal my (very damaged) metabolism, while gradually losing this

excess weight and of course, most importantly, gain/maintain excellent,

long-term, disease free, HEALTH!

Lynn

Re: Re: menu plans and weightloss

Lynne-

>Currently my weightloss formula is 40gms of protein, 80-100gms of fat; 30

>gms of carbs. I eat little to no carbs during day, saving it until end of

>day (about hour before bed) to be eaten alone, (Kwasniewski's adv

>ise for people who do not!

> lose weight easliy after adopting his diet).

I'm not positive, but I think your problem is actually that you're not

eating enough. By my calculations, you're eating around 1090

calories. Now, true, I don't know how tall you are, what type of body and

metabolism you have and so on, but that just seems like starvation rations

for just about anyone, and calorie restriction tells the body to go into

starvation mode, which precludes optimum health and weight loss.

Also, I'm not convinced lumping your carbs together at the end of the day

(or at any time of the day) is helpful either. First, I always found that

my body did its actual weight losing overnight, so giving it a bunch of

carbs at the end of the day would seem likely to be a hindrance rather than

a help. And second, by having all your carbs at once, you're intensifying

the insulin reaction rather than diminishing it and spreading it out.

And as always, I'd suggest looking into possible thyroid problems,

particularly in light of the new revisions to TSH guidelines.

-

[Guest guest]

Hi Jafa,

Someone on this list mentioned the slowburn...I cannot remember the website but

here are the books I bought:

The SLOWBURN FITNESS REVOLUTION by Frederick Hahn

POWER of 10 by Adam Zickerman

The 5 RITES are a book (bought this first, so interesting bought the video)

Can't find the book right now, but the name of the video is The FOUNTAIN OF

YOUTH--FIVE TIBETAN EXERCISES FOR REJUVENATION.

Lynn

[Guest guest]

Robin-

>I've been eating

>between 20-25 grams carbs, with 65-75% of my diet being fat and

>aprox. 24% of my diet being protein, but I haven't been able to lose

>any weight eating this way.

It's possible that you need to cut your protein intake somewhat. In a

recent Wise Traditions (the most recent?) the WAPF board published food

diaries recounting what they'd each eaten for a few days, and I think in

all cases their protein consumption accounted for about 15-20% of their

calories.

It's also possible that you need to retool your fat consumption to be more

saturated. The more saturated a fat, the more thermogenic and the more

helpful it is for weight loss.

Just a couple ideas.

-

[Guest guest]

Zahra-

>Do you have any examples of food for a day? I don't know what I am suppossed

>to eat anymore.

OK, yesterday I ate six lightly fried eggs, half a pound of liver, about a

cup of cream with three egg yolks mixed in, a very fatty homemade kielbasa,

and a large steak with a sauce made of boiled-down beef stock, caramelized

onions, pepper, and some raw creme fraiche mixed in at the very end. Oh, I

also had a mouthful of pecans at one point.

But your mileage may vary.

-

[Guest guest]

ZARA,

I have client that I put on basicly a cave-man diet a couple of months

ago and to no avail her weight didn't budge. We both were extremely

frusterated! During this period I was getting certified as an intermediate

metabolic typer, I'm already capable of doing the beginner test so I tested

her. She came out as a mixed type but so so close to a carb type. In other

words I had her eating High Protein/High good Fat when she needed Lower

amounts Proteins and Low purine fats along with more than what I would like

Carb ratio. To make a long story short she dropped 15 pounds and 4 inches,

lost her lower abdominal blotedness and tire around her mid-section and no

more stomach aches. So anyways I recommend getting Metabolic Typed or

reading Metabolic Typing Diet by Wolcott. Their is no such thing as

a one size fits all diet! I'm convinced of that especially after this last

experiance.

Matt Pack

Impack Training Services

Arlington, Va

>From: " kimbriel2002 " <kimbrielmorrison@...>

>Reply-

>

>Subject: Re: menu plans and weightloss

>Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 02:06:11 -0000

>

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[Guest guest]

> She came out as a mixed type but so so close to a carb type. In

other

> words I had her eating High Protein/High good Fat when she needed

Lower

> amounts Proteins and Low purine fats along with more than what I

would like

> Carb ratio.

------>Matt, what type of low puring fats did you put her on and how

much? I'm assuming you took her off all animal fats.

I'm asking because my mother is struggling with my suggestions of a

NT low carb diet. It doesn't seem to work for her and works extremely

well for me. My recommendations have made her sick especially animal

protein and fat. When she increases her carbs with vegetables and

uses a little vegetable oil and eggs for protein she often feels

better (although that's not consistent). But the animal products

consistently do make her extremely tired and dragging.

I'm wondering if our needs for animal oils change with age or if it's

all metabolic. What is the age of your client if I may ask?

Lynn

[Guest guest]

>But the animal products

>consistently do make her extremely tired and dragging.

>I'm wondering if our needs for animal oils change with age or if it's

>all metabolic.

You might try her on coconut oil. My husband and I could NOT

digest animal fat for a long time -- made both of us sick.

Lack of stomach acids or bile, I think. My digestive system

is MUCH better now and I love nice greasy ribs, but it took

a year to get to that point.

A lot of people DO have low enzymes and low stomach

acid. Betain Hydrochloride and/or digestive enzymes

can help. But meat is really hard to digest without

good acid/enzymes.

Heidi S