Re: Re: CMP sufferer - confusion

[Guest guest]

I agree with Mike. The thing that jumped out at me in the e-book was where

the OS put himself through a procedure where he had a local and tested the

sensations in the different parts of his knee, and the cartilage had no

sensation, but the synovium was highly sensitive. Chondromalacia is just a

medical term that describes the softening or wearing down of the cartilage.

The pain may or may not be directly due to the cartilage wear. The synovium

is right there beside the cartilage, so it makes sense that if the cartilage

is rough and has bits and pieces floating around it will inflame the

synovium, but the cartilage and bone itself is not innervated, it cannot

feel pain. so the pain syndrome may or may not be directly related to the

cartilage wear, no one is exactly certain. Some of us get pain relief from

the cartilage repair, some do not.

Start with the most conservative treatments, and shy away from doctors who

don't treat you as a whole person (or as a person at all) or who act like

they know everything, because they just don't.

.

On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 7:27 AM, Mike_Bernhardt <mlbernhardt@...>wrote:

>

>

>

> >

> > Hi,

> >

> > I have heard of the lateral release surgery. Again, I was told it was too

> risky.

>

> I have heard of many horror stories with LR

>

> >

> > I can honestly say I am now very confused. In the e-book, it makes a

> distinction between patella femoral pain and Chondromaliacia; it says they

> are only loosely connected.

>

> I think the quote in the tutorial says it best;

>

> " One more naming note: occasionally you'll hear therapists or doctors call

> this condition " patellofemoral tracking syndrome " (PFTS) or even

> chondromalacia patellae (definitions coming soon), but these are blatantly

> in error: these are things that might be causes of the condition, but they

> are not the condition itself. "

>

> >

> > So do I have PF anymore, or just CMP? I don't have have the classic

> symptoms anymore, like inability to climb stairs, and the tracking problems.

> I just have a dull ache in the bone and a catching sensation. So, either the

> scope helped a lot, or I have more what is chondromalacia, which that books

> says is a degeneration of carlege, similar to arthritis.

>

> In my honest opinion, I don't believe the doctors really know what they are

> talking about. The honest ones admit it.

>

> >

> > It seems everyone on this board has had far more severe trauma than

> myself with patella pain. Does this mean it's coming to that for me?

>

> I have found I needed to take charge of my own health chare in light of

> such an elusive condition as CMP or PFPS or whatever you want to call it.

> Seven years ago I would have never dreamed I would still be walking now. I

> consulted with about 10 different orthopedic doctors including Mayo Clinic.

> I would try any conservative treatment that seems reasonable to you, and

> quit if it doesn't get better in a reasonable amount of time, or immediately

> if the condition gets worse. Try altering your lifestyle, diet, weight,

> physical conditioning (either more or less or just different). For me, just

> wearing compression thigh-high socks made enough difference I could continue

> walking, but it was a course of " treatment " that I fell upon entirely by

> accident. Also a regiment of frequent stretching helped me a lot. I would

> also suggest trying a physical therapist who has a good reputation treating

> fibromyalgia. I wouldn't try surgery unless it is clearly indicated, and is

> verified by a second opinion. If the doctor seems too assured of theirselves

> or doesn't treat you as an individual, I would drop them immediately. They

> will most likely end up hurting you. Just my opinion.

>

> Mike

> MT

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Ohhh....I have never heard it described that well. Thanks . I " might "

add that I " may " have got some relief from the releases I had, but not enough to

recommend them to someone else, especially being cognizant of the damage or pain

the surgery may cause on it's own. You need to make up your own mind. It is

the synovium or the area around the kneecap that gets so painful in my case.

Even when I am relaxed with my feet up, I can feel what seems like a thousand

pin pricks around my patella. I have been on oxycodon before, but don't want to

go there again. I have never heard a good explanation for the pain I have, so I

haven't pursued a more aggressive surgery, even though I have had more

aggressive surgery recommended by at least a couple doctors.

Mike

MT

Re: Re: CMP sufferer - confusion

I agree with Mike. The thing that jumped out at me in the e-book was where

the OS put himself through a procedure where he had a local and tested the

sensations in the different parts of his knee, and the cartilage had no

sensation, but the synovium was highly sensitive. Chondromalacia is just a

medical term that describes the softening or wearing down of the cartilage.

The pain may or may not be directly due to the cartilage wear. The synovium

is right there beside the cartilage, so it makes sense that if the cartilage

is rough and has bits and pieces floating around it will inflame the

synovium, but the cartilage and bone itself is not innervated, it cannot

feel pain. so the pain syndrome may or may not be directly related to the

cartilage wear, no one is exactly certain. Some of us get pain relief from

the cartilage repair, some do not.

Start with the most conservative treatments, and shy away from doctors who

don't treat you as a whole person (or as a person at all) or who act like

they know everything, because they just don't.

.

On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 7:27 AM, Mike_Bernhardt

<mlbernhardt@...>wrote:

>

>

>

> >

> > Hi,

> >

> > I have heard of the lateral release surgery. Again, I was told it was too

> risky.

>

> I have heard of many horror stories with LR

>

> >

> > I can honestly say I am now very confused. In the e-book, it makes a

> distinction between patella femoral pain and Chondromaliacia; it says they

> are only loosely connected.

>

> I think the quote in the tutorial says it best;

>

> " One more naming note: occasionally you'll hear therapists or doctors call

> this condition " patellofemoral tracking syndrome " (PFTS) or even

> chondromalacia patellae (definitions coming soon), but these are blatantly

> in error: these are things that might be causes of the condition, but they

> are not the condition itself. "

>

> >

> > So do I have PF anymore, or just CMP? I don't have have the classic

> symptoms anymore, like inability to climb stairs, and the tracking problems.

> I just have a dull ache in the bone and a catching sensation. So, either the

> scope helped a lot, or I have more what is chondromalacia, which that books

> says is a degeneration of carlege, similar to arthritis.

>

> In my honest opinion, I don't believe the doctors really know what they are

> talking about. The honest ones admit it.

>

> >

> > It seems everyone on this board has had far more severe trauma than

> myself with patella pain. Does this mean it's coming to that for me?

>

> I have found I needed to take charge of my own health chare in light of

> such an elusive condition as CMP or PFPS or whatever you want to call it.

> Seven years ago I would have never dreamed I would still be walking now. I

> consulted with about 10 different orthopedic doctors including Mayo Clinic.

> I would try any conservative treatment that seems reasonable to you, and

> quit if it doesn't get better in a reasonable amount of time, or immediately

> if the condition gets worse. Try altering your lifestyle, diet, weight,

> physical conditioning (either more or less or just different). For me, just

> wearing compression thigh-high socks made enough difference I could continue

> walking, but it was a course of " treatment " that I fell upon entirely by

> accident. Also a regiment of frequent stretching helped me a lot. I would

> also suggest trying a physical therapist who has a good reputation treating

> fibromyalgia. I wouldn't try surgery unless it is clearly indicated, and is

> verified by a second opinion. If the doctor seems too assured of theirselves

> or doesn't treat you as an individual, I would drop them immediately. They

> will most likely end up hurting you. Just my opinion.

>

> Mike

> MT

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

My current OS says that for a true maltracking problem, releases (I had one

about 16 years ago) are hardly ever enough to correct the maltracking

problem, and they create scar tissue and other problems. He doesn't like

them at all. If he has a true maltracking problem, he prefers to do some

form of a bony realignment. More invasive, certainly, but he sees better

results with them. I had a Fulkerson osteotomy, and it was painful, but it

was done with the Carticel, and it's possible that it combined with cleaning

out the crud did more than the Carticel itself.

.

On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 9:04 AM, Mike Bernhardt <mlbernhardt@...>wrote:

>

>

> Ohhh....I have never heard it described that well. Thanks . I " might "

> add that I " may " have got some relief from the releases I had, but not

> enough to recommend them to someone else, especially being cognizant of the

> damage or pain the surgery may cause on it's own. You need to make up your

> own mind. It is the synovium or the area around the kneecap that gets so

> painful in my case. Even when I am relaxed with my feet up, I can feel what

> seems like a thousand pin pricks around my patella. I have been on oxycodon

> before, but don't want to go there again. I have never heard a good

> explanation for the pain I have, so I haven't pursued a more aggressive

> surgery, even though I have had more aggressive surgery recommended by at

> least a couple doctors.

>

> Mike

> MT

>

>

> Re: Re: CMP sufferer - confusion

>

> I agree with Mike. The thing that jumped out at me in the e-book was where

> the OS put himself through a procedure where he had a local and tested the

> sensations in the different parts of his knee, and the cartilage had no

> sensation, but the synovium was highly sensitive. Chondromalacia is just a

> medical term that describes the softening or wearing down of the cartilage.

> The pain may or may not be directly due to the cartilage wear. The synovium

> is right there beside the cartilage, so it makes sense that if the

> cartilage

> is rough and has bits and pieces floating around it will inflame the

> synovium, but the cartilage and bone itself is not innervated, it cannot

> feel pain. so the pain syndrome may or may not be directly related to the

> cartilage wear, no one is exactly certain. Some of us get pain relief from

> the cartilage repair, some do not.

>

> Start with the most conservative treatments, and shy away from doctors who

> don't treat you as a whole person (or as a person at all) or who act like

> they know everything, because they just don't.

>

> .

>

> On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 7:27 AM, Mike_Bernhardt

<mlbernhardt@...<mlbernhardt%40cablemt.net>

> >wrote:

>

> >

> >

> >

> > >

> > > Hi,

> > >

> > > I have heard of the lateral release surgery. Again, I was told it was

> too

> > risky.

> >

> > I have heard of many horror stories with LR

> >

> > >

> > > I can honestly say I am now very confused. In the e-book, it makes a

> > distinction between patella femoral pain and Chondromaliacia; it says

> they

> > are only loosely connected.

> >

> > I think the quote in the tutorial says it best;

> >

> > " One more naming note: occasionally you'll hear therapists or doctors

> call

> > this condition " patellofemoral tracking syndrome " (PFTS) or even

> > chondromalacia patellae (definitions coming soon), but these are

> blatantly

> > in error: these are things that might be causes of the condition, but

> they

> > are not the condition itself. "

> >

> > >

> > > So do I have PF anymore, or just CMP? I don't have have the classic

> > symptoms anymore, like inability to climb stairs, and the tracking

> problems.

> > I just have a dull ache in the bone and a catching sensation. So, either

> the

> > scope helped a lot, or I have more what is chondromalacia, which that

> books

> > says is a degeneration of carlege, similar to arthritis.

> >

> > In my honest opinion, I don't believe the doctors really know what they

> are

> > talking about. The honest ones admit it.

> >

> > >

> > > It seems everyone on this board has had far more severe trauma than

> > myself with patella pain. Does this mean it's coming to that for me?

> >

> > I have found I needed to take charge of my own health chare in light of

> > such an elusive condition as CMP or PFPS or whatever you want to call it.

> > Seven years ago I would have never dreamed I would still be walking now.

> I

> > consulted with about 10 different orthopedic doctors including Mayo

> Clinic.

> > I would try any conservative treatment that seems reasonable to you, and

> > quit if it doesn't get better in a reasonable amount of time, or

> immediately

> > if the condition gets worse. Try altering your lifestyle, diet, weight,

> > physical conditioning (either more or less or just different). For me,

> just

> > wearing compression thigh-high socks made enough difference I could

> continue

> > walking, but it was a course of " treatment " that I fell upon entirely by

> > accident. Also a regiment of frequent stretching helped me a lot. I would

> > also suggest trying a physical therapist who has a good reputation

> treating

> > fibromyalgia. I wouldn't try surgery unless it is clearly indicated, and

> is

> > verified by a second opinion. If the doctor seems too assured of

> theirselves

> > or doesn't treat you as an individual, I would drop them immediately.

> They

> > will most likely end up hurting you. Just my opinion.

> >

> > Mike

> > MT

> >

> >

> >

>

>

[Guest guest]

FWIW, the doctor I saw who seemed to understand the condition the best was

Dennis Crawford at Oregon Health and Science University in Portland for your

information or someone else who might even be remotely close;

http://www.ohsu.edu/xd/health/services/providers/crawfden.cfm

I went one time 900 miles for a consult, but at that point in my life it was

worth it. I think many of us have been there. There gets to a point in our

lives our whole life revolves around our knees.

Mike

MT

Re: CMP sufferer - confusion

Hi ,

I have honestly never been clearer than I am now. THANK YOU for posting what

you did. I finally understand Chondromalacia and what the book was saying. I

guess I needed it spelled out differently. Your explanation was very succinct

and clear. And it fits with all that my OS had told me previously.

Mike - I am starting to believe that is is more important to take care of

yourself, especially with a vague condition like this. I also wonder about

consulting different doctors. I wish there were more or even one actual CMP had

a specialist.

[Guest guest]

I'm always glad something I offer is of some help to someone. I believe

the more information we have, the better we can take charge of our

conditions. Doctors are great, but they don't know intimately what we deal

with, and sometimes whether they admit it or not, they're blundering around

trying to find something that works. Sometimes a motivated layperson with a

good mind for research who is just determined to figure it out and

understand all the confusing medical terminology and conflicting medical

information is more successful in figuring out what's going on with their

own body. A good doctor works WITH a patient like that.

I have been very impressed with the info from Saveyourself.ca... I wish he

was here in the states. I think a physio like him who could find some good

orthos who were like minded would soon comprise one of the top rated ortho

complexes in the country.

.

On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 11:53 AM, jennifer.kelly34 <

jennifer.kelly34@...> wrote:

>

>

> Hi ,

>

> I have honestly never been clearer than I am now. THANK YOU for posting

> what you did. I finally understand Chondromalacia and what the book was

> saying. I guess I needed it spelled out differently. Your explanation was

> very succinct and clear. And it fits with all that my OS had told me

> previously.

>

> Mike - I am starting to believe that is is more important to take care of

> yourself, especially with a vague condition like this. I also wonder about

> consulting different doctors. I wish there were more or even one actual CMP

> had a specialist.

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Mike,

I feel like that. My whole life revolves around my knees. I am relieved there

are others out there that feel the same as I do. My friends get sick of hearing

me talk about my knees.

You once went 900 miles for a consult? Wow...I am impressed!

Pat

From: Mike Bernhardt <mlbernhardt@...>

Subject: Re: Re: CMP sufferer - confusion

chondromalacia treatment

Date: Wednesday, September 30, 2009, 1:26 PM

FWIW, the doctor I saw who seemed to understand the condition the best was

Dennis Crawford at Oregon Health and Science University in Portland for your

information or someone else who might even be remotely close;

http://www.ohsu.edu/xd/health/services/providers/crawfden.cfm

I went one time 900 miles for a consult, but at that point in my life it was

worth it.  I think many of us have been there.  There gets to a point in our

lives our whole life revolves around our knees. 

Mike

MT

  Re: CMP sufferer - confusion

    Hi ,

  I have honestly never been clearer than I am now. THANK YOU for posting what

you did. I finally understand Chondromalacia and what the book was saying. I

guess I needed it spelled out differently. Your explanation was very succinct

and clear. And it fits with all that my OS had told me previously.

  Mike - I am starting to believe that is is more important to take care of

yourself, especially with a vague condition like this. I also wonder about

consulting different doctors. I wish there were more or even one actual CMP had

a specialist.

 

 

[Guest guest]

Before I finally agreed to see an OS again after 15 years, it had gotten to

the point where I'd had to give up all the physical activities I enjoyed,

had put on even more weight (I've always been heavy, but put on another 50

lbs or so after I couldn't dance or do martial arts anymore), and couldn't

even coach my daughter's basketball and volleyball teams. Any activity put

me on the couch with deep ice for hours/days afterwards. The final straw

was when BodyWorlds came to my city and I walked the nearly 6-hour exhibit

with my family, and had to call in to my DESK JOB two days later because I

was still having to be on the couch with ice. My chiro couldn't help,

massage didn't help, light bracing didn't help, my chiro said at the very

least I needed an OS to prescribe and fit a functional brace so I could

safely walk, because the knee had started buckling on me when it would track

out and catch at times. Anything the family wanted to do, we had to

consider my knees, how far I could walk, and would I have a place to sit.

We're still that way to a minor extent, but it's nothing like it was. So

yes, most of us here know exactly what you're going through.

.

On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 1:40 PM, Cardwell <pattio50@...>wrote:

>

>

> Mike,

> I feel like that. My whole life revolves around my knees. I am relieved

> there are others out there that feel the same as I do. My friends get sick

> of hearing me talk about my knees.

> You once went 900 miles for a consult? Wow...I am impressed!

> Pat

>

>

>

> From: Mike Bernhardt <mlbernhardt@... <mlbernhardt%40cablemt.net>>

> Subject: Re: Re: CMP sufferer - confusion

> To:

chondromalacia treatment <chondromalacia treatment%40groups.co\

m>

> Date: Wednesday, September 30, 2009, 1:26 PM

>

>

> FWIW, the doctor I saw who seemed to understand the condition the best was

> Dennis Crawford at Oregon Health and Science University in Portland for your

> information or someone else who might even be remotely close;

>

> http://www.ohsu.edu/xd/health/services/providers/crawfden.cfm

>

> I went one time 900 miles for a consult, but at that point in my life it

> was worth it. I think many of us have been there. There gets to a point in

> our lives our whole life revolves around our knees.

>

> Mike

> MT

> Re: CMP sufferer - confusion

>

> Hi ,

>

> I have honestly never been clearer than I am now. THANK YOU for posting

> what you did. I finally understand Chondromalacia and what the book was

> saying. I guess I needed it spelled out differently. Your explanation was

> very succinct and clear. And it fits with all that my OS had told me

> previously.

>

> Mike - I am starting to believe that is is more important to take care of

> yourself, especially with a vague condition like this. I also wonder about

> consulting different doctors. I wish there were more or even one actual CMP

> had a specialist.

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

errr...I kind of hate to admit it now, but I also went 900 miles east also to

Mayo. My aunt worked there in administration. At Mayo they didn't really seem

to take me seriously until I passed out from the pain of a cortisone shot and

fell off the examination table. The shot just kind of pushed me over the edge

of consciousness and what I could humanly tolerate. I just remember waking up

and hearing a code blue over the loudspeaker and doctors rushing all

around----then realized all the hubub was for me. Then they were ready to admit

me, but I just wanted to go home. I guess when I realized even the best

medicine in the world didn't have any good answers for me, it was time to take

my own care in my hands.

Mike

MT

Re: CMP sufferer - confusion

Hi ,

I have honestly never been clearer than I am now. THANK YOU for posting what

you did. I finally understand Chondromalacia and what the book was saying. I

guess I needed it spelled out differently. Your explanation was very succinct

and clear. And it fits with all that my OS had told me previously.

Mike - I am starting to believe that is is more important to take care of

yourself, especially with a vague condition like this. I also wonder about

consulting different doctors. I wish there were more or even one actual CMP had

a specialist.