Guest guest Posted July 23, 2006 Report Share Posted July 23, 2006 I've been making cold process soap for more than 10 years now and have worked to formulate a very good vegetable oil blend for the base. I do use a certain percentage of shea butter in this formulation. Now, I have customers who insist that there is an all shea butter soap. Any comments? Namaste, Lynette of Terralyn - Bath, Body, Spirit Reading Terminal Market Philadelphia, PA terralyn27@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 23, 2006 Report Share Posted July 23, 2006 Hi Lynette, I've never heard of a 100% Shea Butter soap. Shea will make a hard bar of soap it would be very conditioning to the skin outside of these two characteristics it will not lather therefore not a very good cleansing bar. Maybe your customer did not know exactly what oils/butters were used in the soap she is referring too. Many people claim to make shea butter soap but it is not 100 % shea butter but shea and others oils/butters. Theresa >From: " Lynette Manteau " <terralyn27@...> >Reply- >< > >Subject: Re: Shea soap? >Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2006 09:58:15 -0400 > >I've been making cold process soap for more than 10 years now and have >worked to formulate a very good vegetable oil blend for the base. I do use >a certain percentage of shea butter in this formulation. Now, I have >customers who insist that there is an all shea butter soap. Any comments? >Namaste, Lynette of Terralyn - Bath, Body, Spirit >Reading Terminal Market >Philadelphia, PA terralyn27@... _________________________________________________________________ Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 23, 2006 Report Share Posted July 23, 2006 Theresa is completely correct. Just for laughs and gigles I made a 100% shea butter soap for my daughter. She LOVED it. It made small lotiony bubbles, was very hard but she shaved with it. That's why she loved it, she wanted something to shave with (all over) I've never made it again but she would love it if I did. Sindy -------------- Original message -------------- From: " THERESA MATTHEWS " <nikhaule@...> > Hi Lynette, > > I've never heard of a 100% Shea Butter soap. Shea will make a hard bar of > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 24, 2006 Report Share Posted July 24, 2006 Dear Lynette, You are correct there are no 100% shea butter cold processed soaps. Just as there are no 100% castille (100% olive oil) cold processed soaps. The SAP values for these 2 oils are far too low. (SAP 180 & 189) Most all cold processed soaps need at least a touch of coconut oil to up the soda lye via a coconut oil SAP of 268. This brings up the lye percentage and actually enourages the soap to harden. In my company I have tried both soaps in 100% just to see how far we could push the package. They just NEVER harden and have NO suds whatsoever. A mound of gelatinous waste is what you end up with. (this btw, is with no sodium discounts) I am sure your customers may be talking about a " hot-processed " soap where most anything is possible and even then it is probably more hype than reality. In America any ingredient less than 1% of the make-up may be placed anywhere in the list of ingredients. I find that unbeleivable, and would never do such a thing as I think it is misleading, but my point is that these big companies proclaim alot and deliver a little. We have since developed an incredible 30% shea butter series of soaps. So to be released. Hope this helped. > > I've been making cold process soap for more than 10 years now and have worked to formulate a very good vegetable oil blend for the base. I do use a certain percentage of shea butter in this formulation. Now, I have customers who insist that there is an all shea butter soap. Any comments? > Namaste, Lynette of Terralyn - Bath, Body, Spirit > Reading Terminal Market > Philadelphia, PA terralyn27@... > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 24, 2006 Report Share Posted July 24, 2006 I'm sorry. I guess I don't understand. If it is 100% shea butter, how could it be soap? Wouldn't it just be a shea butter bar? T. Kay Harrelson OKIE DOKIE CANDLES " Candles with Character " www.okiedokiecandles.com 580-323-0623 " Live your life so that someone will thank God you were born " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 24, 2006 Report Share Posted July 24, 2006 malefeline, I have to disagree with the 100% castille soap comment. I make 100% castille soap using extra virgin olive oil. One calculator has olive oil at a sap value of 0.134 in Cavitch's book page 247 she has olive oil with a sap value of 189.7. The key would be to run your oilve oil through more than one calculator. Olive oil soaps do produce hard bars of soap but small bubbles not the big fluffy ones you get when you use coconut oil/palm kernel oil. I have noticed with castille soap as it ages the soap lather gets better it doesn't feel slimy the older the soap gets. My son and granddaughter use this soap and they both suffer from extreme exzema. The one draw back that I will admit with making 100% olive oil soap is I had to stir the oil back into the raw soap after it was poured into the mold but after a few hours the problem went away and I was able to cut the soap into bars so that it could cure. Most people just don't like to work with 100% olive oil soap because it takes a bit more effort to work with. There are some interesting recipes for castille soap with having to use all olive oil http://millersoap.com/castile.html HTH Theresa >From: " malefeline2001 " <malefeline@...> >Reply- > >Subject: Re: Shea soap? >Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 13:51:58 -0000 > >Dear Lynette, > >You are correct there are no 100% shea butter cold processed soaps. Just as >there are no >100% castille (100% olive oil) cold processed soaps. The SAP values for >these 2 oils are far >too low. (SAP 180 & 189) Most all cold processed soaps need at least a >touch of coconut >oil to up the soda lye via a coconut oil SAP of 268. This brings up the lye >percentage and >actually enourages the soap to harden. In my company I have tried both >soaps in 100% just >to see how far we could push the package. They just NEVER harden and have >NO suds >whatsoever. A mound of gelatinous waste is what you end up with. (this btw, >is with no >sodium discounts) > >I am sure your customers may be talking about a " hot-processed " soap where >most >anything is possible and even then it is probably more hype than reality. >In America any >ingredient less than 1% of the make-up may be placed anywhere in the list >of ingredients. >I find that unbeleivable, and would never do such a thing as I think it is >misleading, but my >point is that these big companies proclaim alot and deliver a little. We >have since >developed an incredible 30% shea butter series of soaps. So to be released. > >Hope this helped. > _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 24, 2006 Report Share Posted July 24, 2006 Hi Lynette, Being the curious sort, I just tried putting shea and coconut oils (for lather) in my soap calculator for presumed properties and found at least a minimal amount of better lather is PRESUMED at about a ratio of 3:1 shea to coconut. Shea was one of the first 'luxury' ingredients I purchased to play around with years ago when I started with M & P. Then when I graduated into learning CP and got my first soap calc, I was amazed to see that it's not as moisturizing in CP soap formulation as olive oil and some others. I have to admit to not knowing much about oil/butter properties while doing M & P because I couldn't add much to the base. It seemed so fruitless to me. I really began a learning curve when I stepped off into CP. I may try this sometime in my testing as well as the all shea. Always could use a good leg shaving bar :-D At 08:58 AM 7/23/2006, you wrote: >I've been making cold process soap for more than 10 years now and have >worked to formulate a very good vegetable oil blend for the base. I do use >a certain percentage of shea butter in this formulation. Now, I have >customers who insist that there is an all shea butter soap. Any comments? >Namaste, Lynette of Terralyn - Bath, Body, Spirit >Reading Terminal Market >Philadelphia, PA <mailto:terralyn27%40verizon.net>terralyn27@... ---------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.4/396 - Release Date: 7/24/2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 24, 2006 Report Share Posted July 24, 2006 Hello I have used 100% olive oil for soap and found it to be extremely hard but little suds and have only made this a few times for some customers as this was there request. As for shea butter I use it at 50% for my bars and they are really creamy. Debbra Hutton Nature's Utopia Calgary, AB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 24, 2006 Report Share Posted July 24, 2006 > You are correct there are no 100% shea butter cold processed soaps. Just as there are no > 100% castille (100% olive oil) cold processed soaps. A mound of gelatinous waste is what you end up with.> Did you perhaps use too much water? It is perfectly possible to use olive oil as 100% of your oils. The soap may need a bit more curing time to get hard, depending on your water discount. It doesn't lather much (although it gets better the longer it cures) and it tends to get slimy more easily than when combined with hard soap, but it can be done and is done all the time. > In America any > ingredient less than 1% of the make-up may be placed anywhere in the list of ingredients. Ingredients less than 1% of the make-up may not be placed " anywhere " . All it means is that for those ingredients making up less than 1%, the order does not matter anymore. For example, if you have a product made up of water (70%), almond oil (20%), Olive oil (7%), preservative (1%), honey (0.5%), EO (.9%) and allantoin (0.6%), the first three ingredients must be listed first, but the last four ingredients may be listed in any order, but still in the last four positions. Hope this clears things up. Regards Hanle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2006 Report Share Posted July 25, 2006 T. Kay - If you add water/lye to 100% shea butter you may not get soap, but you won't get a shea butter bar either. I suspect it might not firm up. I have made a 100% olive oil soap and it took very long to harden and had next to no lather. Thanks to all who responded. Namaste, Lynette of Terralyn - Bath, Body, Spirit Reading Terminal Market Philadelphia, PA terralyn27@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2006 Report Share Posted July 28, 2006 > > Dear Lynette, > > You are correct there are no 100% shea butter cold processed soaps. Just as there are no > 100% castille (100% olive oil) cold processed soaps. The SAP values for these 2 oils are far > too low. (SAP 180 & 189) <snip> They just NEVER harden and have NO suds > whatsoever. A mound of gelatinous waste is what you end up with. Whazzat? http://www.soapcrone.com/soaps_detail.php?id=12 Those look pretty hard to me--far from a " mound of gelatinous waste. " On the contrary--they are very soothing, gentle soaps. Amy All-natural, handmade luxury soaps, and the ebook, _Making Soap In Your Own Kitchen_, a beginner's guide to soapmaking. www.soapcrone.com/ebook.php Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2006 Report Share Posted July 28, 2006 > > malefeline, > > I have to disagree with the 100% castille soap comment. I make 100% castille > soap using extra virgin olive oil. <snip> As do I. > Olive oil soaps do produce hard bars of soap but small bubbles not the big > fluffy ones you get when you use coconut oil/palm kernel oil. I have noticed > with castille soap as it ages the soap lather gets better it doesn't feel > slimy the older the soap gets. <snip> Hard as a ROCK, if you wait long enough before using it. Make some and let it sit for about 3 months. You could break a window with it. > The one draw back that I will admit with making 100% olive oil soap is I had > to stir the oil back into the raw soap after it was poured into the mold but > after a few hours the problem went away and I was able to cut the soap into > bars so that it could cure. Most people just don't like to work with 100% > olive oil soap because it takes a bit more effort to work with. I have never had that problem. I whiz it until trace, and pour it in the mold, and forget about it. Now, it does set up VERY VERY slowly. With my other soaps, I can unmold it after about 8 hours. With my Castile, I don't dare unmold it before 24 hours have elapsed. I live in a dry climate, though, so some folks may have to wait longer. But I've never had a problem with it separating. Did you whiz it until a thick trace? That might help. Amy All-natural, handmade luxury soaps, and the ebook, _Making Soap In Your Own Kitchen_, a beginner's guide to soapmaking. www.soapcrone.com/ebook.php Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2006 Report Share Posted July 28, 2006 I was going to ask the same thing. Separation in the mold makes me think it was a false trace, otherwise it should not have separated, right? Here's why I asked that question, plus my story. I had a false trace on a very small batch months ago but didn't know it. I added my FO and it started 'ricing.' Well, I had never had that happen and dumped it in the mold anyway. Bad move. It separated! I poured it back into the soap pot and put it in the oven around 200 F for about 3-4 hours, stirring about every half hour and it came back into a vaseline like stage. In the meantime, I had to RELINE my mold (^ & ^%*%* & ^%) glopped and banged the soap BACK into the mold and it did WONDERFULLY! I found ONLY LATER that small batches have more tendencies to have false trace. This is because the depth is so low that a lot of air can get whipped in with the SB and can give the appearance of trace. I thought I had avoided that by tilting the pot and SB in the 'corner' where the soap was deeper. In the future, I'll let it sit just a bit and see if it's still at trace in say 4-5 minutes later. Thanks for the heads up on 100% OO. When I do a 100% lard soap (for laundry) it seems to take a much longer time to get to trace, but it does eventually. I just have to SB and eyeball it and be patient. I also like to stir it with a spoon while I let it sit. I can get into the corners with the spoon, or at least I feel like I can...lol. I had put 100% shea butter in my soapmaker program to look at properties and it lists the properties as a *VERY* hard bar, same with olive. The shea soap has a creamier lather, the OO soap can be a bit slimy. The shea should have a stable lather with not much moisturizing (due to the saponification process - shea usually IS moisturizing so I like to use it only at superfat stage to help that). The OO soap is VERY moisturizing. Now Shea OIL does NOT make a hard bar BUT IS ABOUT THE SAME MOISTURIZING AS OO~! This is from the program, not from experience (yet). My thought is that anyone seeing shea makes a hard bar would be disappointed if they used shea OIL instead of shea BUTTER which I think is more common. Frieda At 12:16 PM 7/28/2006, you wrote: > > > > > malefeline, > > > > I have to disagree with the 100% castille soap comment. I make 100% >castille > > soap using extra virgin olive oil. <snip> > >As do I. > > > Olive oil soaps do produce hard bars of soap but small bubbles not >the big > > fluffy ones you get when you use coconut oil/palm kernel oil. I have >noticed > > with castille soap as it ages the soap lather gets better it doesn't >feel > > slimy the older the soap gets. <snip> > >Hard as a ROCK, if you wait long enough before using it. Make some and >let it sit for about 3 months. You could break a window with it. > > > The one draw back that I will admit with making 100% olive oil soap >is I had > > to stir the oil back into the raw soap after it was poured into the >mold but > > after a few hours the problem went away and I was able to cut the >soap into > > bars so that it could cure. Most people just don't like to work with >100% > > olive oil soap because it takes a bit more effort to work with. > >I have never had that problem. I whiz it until trace, and pour it in >the mold, and forget about it. Now, it does set up VERY VERY slowly. >With my other soaps, I can unmold it after about 8 hours. With my >Castile, I don't dare unmold it before 24 hours have elapsed. I live >in a dry climate, though, so some folks may have to wait longer. But >I've never had a problem with it separating. Did you whiz it until a >thick trace? That might help. > >Amy > >All-natural, handmade luxury soaps, >and the ebook, _Making Soap In Your Own Kitchen_, >a beginner's guide to soapmaking. > >www.soapcrone.com/ebook.php > > > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.4/401 - Release Date: 7/26/2006 ---------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.4/401 - Release Date: 7/26/2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2006 Report Share Posted July 28, 2006 LOL!! You're right about that " hard as a rock " . Yes I did mix mine until it was at thick trace. Although I don't live in a dry climate I think it separated slightly because it was a hot & humid day here 100 and the kitchen was scorching that day. Happy Crafting! Theresa >From: " groovygrrl " <groovy_ahk@...> >Reply- > >Subject: Re: Shea soap? >Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 17:16:35 -0000 > > >Hard as a ROCK, if you wait long enough before using it. Make some and >let it sit for about 3 months. You could break a window with it. > > >Did you whiz it until a >thick trace? That might help. > > >Amy > >All-natural, handmade luxury soaps, >and the ebook, _Making Soap In Your Own Kitchen_, >a beginner's guide to soapmaking. > >www.soapcrone.com/ebook.php _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.