Guest guest Posted October 12, 2003 Report Share Posted October 12, 2003 Nigel, Some good write ups on the product in use in Afghanistan and Iraq. Literature search does not bring up too much though: Alam HB, Uy GB, D, Koustova E, Hancock T, Inocencio R, et al. Comparative analysis of hemostatic agents in a swine model of lethal groin injury. J Trauma 2003;54(6):1077-82. Quikclot does work with moisture but does not burn skin, just to the higher end of warm (42-44C) and only on a short term (30-60 secs). The mortality figures in the above study indicate that quikclot was 0% and traumadex was 33%. Sadly there isn't too much more evidence as yet, just some nice comments from satisfied users. Cheers, Ross > quick clot > > > > I've just seen a demo of quick clot > at a trade exhibition in the UK. > I've seen some discussion of it on > the net as it went through American > licensing but now it is available in the UK. > It looks brilliant on the sales > video. Anyone got any comments on its > benefits or problems in the remote setting, > particularly mountain/arctic? Also > any problems with later removal or > recovery in medical setting? > Thanks > Nigel Smee > > > rmo > mailto:rmo@... > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 12, 2003 Report Share Posted October 12, 2003 They have been developing quick clot for years now, It is a very good concept but you may want to check out this alternative..TraumaDex. In my mind a better and more stable product...especially when moisture is present on the wound...QuiKlot I believe is exothermic..moisture present, will burn skin...ouch!!! TraumaDEX not so. Regards Savva -- quick clot I've just seen a demo of quick clot at a trade exhibition in the UK. I've seen some discussion of it on the net as it went through American licensing but now it is available in the UK. It looks brilliant on the sales video. Anyone got any comments on its benefits or problems in the remote setting, particularly mountain/arctic? Also any problems with later removal or recovery in medical setting? Thanks Nigel Smee rmo mailto:rmo@... Member Information: List owner: Ian Sharpe Owner@... Editor: Ross Boardman Editor@... ALL list admin messages (subscriptions & unsubscriptions) should be sent to the list owner. Post message: egroups Please visit our website http://www.remotemedics.co.uk Regards The Remote Medics Team Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 12, 2003 Report Share Posted October 12, 2003 Nigel, Can you enlighten me as to what quick clot is? Thanks a lot, Simon quick clot I've just seen a demo of quick clot at a trade exhibition in the UK. I've seen some discussion of it on the net as it went through American licensing but now it is available in the UK. It looks brilliant on the sales video. Anyone got any comments on its benefits or problems in the remote setting, particularly mountain/arctic? Also any problems with later removal or recovery in medical setting? Thanks Nigel Smee rmo mailto:rmo@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 12, 2003 Report Share Posted October 12, 2003 At 11:13 AM 10/12/03 +0100, you wrote: >They have been developing quick clot for years now, It is a very good >concept but you may want to check out >this alternative..TraumaDex. In my mind a better and more stable >product...especially when moisture is present >on the wound...QuiKlot I believe is exothermic..moisture present, will >burn skin...ouch!!! TraumaDEX not so. > >Regards > >Savva Here are some bits and pieces I've received from reliable sources regarding QuiKlot. The reviews have not been encouraging. Larry Torrey ------------------------------------------------ SPECOPS IDC HM 8491/HM 8403 JSOMTC: USE OF THE HEMOSTASIS PRODUCT QUIKCLOT MADE BY Z-MEDICA 1. UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE ALL USSOCOM PERSONNEL ARE PROHIBITED FROM USING THE HEMOSTASIS PRODUCT QUIKCLOT MADE BY Z-MEDICA. 2. QUIKCLOT IS A COMMERCIAL OFF-THE-SHELF PRODUCT WITH FDA APPROVAL FOR EXTERNAL USE TO ACHIEVE HEMOSTASIS (CONTROL HEMORRHAGE). THIS PRODUCT WAS PURCHASED IN QUANTITY BY THE ARMY AND USMC MEDICAL AGENCIES BECAUSE OF THE EARLY FDA APPROVAL AND THE BLOOD CLOTTING POTENTIAL OF THE PRODUCT. SMALL QUANTITIES OF THE QUIKCLOT HAVE FOUND THEIR WAY TO USSOCOM MEDICS THROUGH SERVICE CONTACTS AND DIRECT FROM THE VENDOR FOR THE SAME REASON SERVICES ORIGINALLY PROCURED THE PRODUCT 3. WHEN QUIKCLOT GRANULES ARE POURED INTO A HEMORRHAGING WOUND A REACTION BEGINS HEATING THE BLOOD TO TEMPERATURES FROM 90-100 DEGREE CENTIGRADE (194-212 DEGREE FAHRENHEIT). THIS TEMPERATURE COAGULATES (CLOTS) THE BLOOD, BUT ALSO HEATS LOCAL SKIN, MUSCLE, AND NERVE TISSUE TO BOILING TEMPERATURES. 4. ARMY AND AIR FORCE MEDICAL RESEARCH LABS HAVE REVIEWED QUIKCLOT AND RECOMMEND NOT USING THE PRODUCT. 5. UNTIL APPROVAL BY SERVICE MEDICAL RESEARCH LABS, DEVELOPMENT OF POST USE PROCEDURES, AND CONCURRENCE OF USSOCOM COMMAND SURGEON; QUIKCLOT IS PROHIBITED FROM USE BY USSOCOM PERSONNEL. 6. POC IS LT COL J. R. LORRAINE, USSOCOM:SOCS-SG, DSN 299-5051/5442. Submitted by: HMCM E. Welt, USN SEA, JSOMTC, FT. Bragg, NC Comm: (910) 396 - 0089 Ext. 145 DSN: 236 Fax: 396 - 5395 ---------------------------------------------------------- Larry; ....I first heard about this problem several months ago when I was in San Diego...There I linked up with NAVSPECWARCOM's new SG who informed me that Quik-Clot had been removed from all SEAL med kits due to the reasons below...Several weeks later, I received e'-comm from a Marine med group that had terrible experiences with the item in Iraq; a number of people bleed to death in combat due to Quik-Clot's failure to perform as advertised. Later still, another comm stated that the stuff was highly dangerous when being used in high wind conditions, i.e., if it blew into one's eyes...All comm (as of several weeks ago) indicates that both PJs and SEALs have pulled the product from their operational med kits. Quik-Clot is " dead " as far as we're concerned...Was against this new " toy " since first introduced to it in Dec 2001 at SOMA Conf. Am still convinced that nothing--at least in the near future--is going to place the tourniquet to terminate massive hemorrhaging...FYI, several tests are underway to incorporate a hemostatic source within a bandage, as opposed to the loose substance of Quik-Clot. Initial results are said to be promising, but then, so were Quik-Clot's... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 12, 2003 Report Share Posted October 12, 2003 As far as I know TraumaDex isnt approved in UK yet I have seen demo's when I was in San Diego. -- quick clot Simon Quick Clot (and TraumaDex? UK approved?) A sachet of granules like sugar made from pumice and other ingredients. Open the sachet, pour onto major wound, press, wound clots. Works by absorbing all the moisture and plasma, leaving a super rich mat of natural clotting agents from the blood. Then washes away in OR. At least that is my understanding of it. The demo I saw on CD is of the pig femoral artery being incised then stopped with quick clot. Very dramatic. Ross says its a little exothermic but tolerable. Distributors are quoting a guy who took a bulletin the neck, out through base of skull. Put quick clot on himself and walked out! Very impressive if its really that good. Certainly goes in my expedition packs. Cheers Nigel mailto: Member Information: List owner: Ian Sharpe Owner@... Editor: Ross Boardman Editor@... ALL list admin messages (subscriptions & unsubscriptions) should be sent to the list owner. Post message: egroups Please visit our website http://www.remotemedics.co.uk Regards The Remote Medics Team Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 12, 2003 Report Share Posted October 12, 2003 Nigel, Thanks a lot. Simon quick clot Simon Quick Clot (and TraumaDex? UK approved?) A sachet of granules like sugar made from pumice and other ingredients. Open the sachet, pour onto major wound, press, wound clots. Works by absorbing all the moisture and plasma, leaving a super rich mat of natural clotting agents from the blood. Then washes away in OR. At least that is my understanding of it. The demo I saw on CD is of the pig femoral artery being incised then stopped with quick clot. Very dramatic. Ross says its a little exothermic but tolerable. Distributors are quoting a guy who took a bulletin the neck, out through base of skull. Put quick clot on himself and walked out! Very impressive if its really that good. Certainly goes in my expedition packs. Cheers Nigel mailto: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 12, 2003 Report Share Posted October 12, 2003 Thanks Larry, Thats basically what i heard when i was working in San Diego too, Proves to be very concerning if you ask me!! Chris -- Re: quick clot At 11:13 AM 10/12/03 +0100, you wrote: >They have been developing quick clot for years now, It is a very good >concept but you may want to check out >this alternative..TraumaDex. In my mind a better and more stable >product...especially when moisture is present >on the wound...QuiKlot I believe is exothermic..moisture present, will >burn skin...ouch!!! TraumaDEX not so. > >Regards > >Savva Here are some bits and pieces I've received from reliable sources regarding QuiKlot. The reviews have not been encouraging. Larry Torrey ------------------------------------------------ SPECOPS IDC HM 8491/HM 8403 JSOMTC: USE OF THE HEMOSTASIS PRODUCT QUIKCLOT MADE BY Z-MEDICA 1. UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE ALL USSOCOM PERSONNEL ARE PROHIBITED FROM USING THE HEMOSTASIS PRODUCT QUIKCLOT MADE BY Z-MEDICA. 2. QUIKCLOT IS A COMMERCIAL OFF-THE-SHELF PRODUCT WITH FDA APPROVAL FOR EXTERNAL USE TO ACHIEVE HEMOSTASIS (CONTROL HEMORRHAGE). THIS PRODUCT WAS PURCHASED IN QUANTITY BY THE ARMY AND USMC MEDICAL AGENCIES BECAUSE OF THE EARLY FDA APPROVAL AND THE BLOOD CLOTTING POTENTIAL OF THE PRODUCT. SMALL QUANTITIES OF THE QUIKCLOT HAVE FOUND THEIR WAY TO USSOCOM MEDICS THROUGH SERVICE CONTACTS AND DIRECT FROM THE VENDOR FOR THE SAME REASON SERVICES ORIGINALLY PROCURED THE PRODUCT 3. WHEN QUIKCLOT GRANULES ARE POURED INTO A HEMORRHAGING WOUND A REACTION BEGINS HEATING THE BLOOD TO TEMPERATURES FROM 90-100 DEGREE CENTIGRADE (194-212 DEGREE FAHRENHEIT). THIS TEMPERATURE COAGULATES (CLOTS) THE BLOOD, BUT ALSO HEATS LOCAL SKIN, MUSCLE, AND NERVE TISSUE TO BOILING TEMPERATURES. 4. ARMY AND AIR FORCE MEDICAL RESEARCH LABS HAVE REVIEWED QUIKCLOT AND RECOMMEND NOT USING THE PRODUCT. 5. UNTIL APPROVAL BY SERVICE MEDICAL RESEARCH LABS, DEVELOPMENT OF POST USE PROCEDURES, AND CONCURRENCE OF USSOCOM COMMAND SURGEON; QUIKCLOT IS PROHIBITED FROM USE BY USSOCOM PERSONNEL. 6. POC IS LT COL J. R. LORRAINE, USSOCOM:SOCS-SG, DSN 299-5051/5442. Submitted by: HMCM E. Welt, USN SEA, JSOMTC, FT. Bragg, NC Comm: (910) 396 - 0089 Ext. 145 DSN: 236 Fax: 396 - 5395 ---------------------------------------------------------- Larry; ..I first heard about this problem several months ago when I was in San Diego...There I linked up with NAVSPECWARCOM's new SG who informed me that Quik-Clot had been removed from all SEAL med kits due to the reasons below...Several weeks later, I received e'-comm from a Marine med group that had terrible experiences with the item in Iraq; a number of people bleed to death in combat due to Quik-Clot's failure to perform as advertised. Later still, another comm stated that the stuff was highly dangerous when being used in high wind conditions, i.e., if it blew into one's eyes...All comm (as of several weeks ago) indicates that both PJs and SEALs have pulled the product from their operational med kits. Quik-Clot is " dead " as far as we're concerned...Was against this new " toy " since first introduced to it in Dec 2001 at SOMA Conf. Am still convinced that nothing--at least in the near future--is going to place the tourniquet to terminate massive hemorrhaging...FYI, several tests are underway to incorporate a hemostatic source within a bandage, as opposed to the loose substance of Quik-Clot. Initial results are said to be promising, but then, so were Quik-Clot's... Member Information: List owner: Ian Sharpe Owner@... Editor: Ross Boardman Editor@... ALL list admin messages (subscriptions & unsubscriptions) should be sent to the list owner. Post message: egroups Please visit our website http://www.remotemedics.co.uk Regards The Remote Medics Team Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 26, 2003 Report Share Posted October 26, 2003 --- Would this TraumaDex powder be dangerous in any types of wounds by forming an emboli. This week I had a patient slice his throat with a razor knife then run off until he collapsed. We had trouble stopping the bleeding and maintaining an IV line and came close to losing him, BP sys 70mm, HR 160+, SPO2- 80's%. Would this product be of any use in this type of wound? Would there be any danger of emboli to the brain or heart? The patient got to the ER and had his jugular vein ligated. Thanks, Bill In , rmo@m... wrote: > > Just received (20 Oct 2003) this in reply to my enquiry to Z- medica who make QC. > Haven't heard back yet from TraumaDex. > Nigel S > > ...QuikClot is still being widely deployed by the US Army and fully deployed by > the USMC. QuikClot does require pressure be used after application on an > arterial bleed, this is common sense. Unfortunatly, many of our soldiers > got their packs of QuikClot after they were already in Iraq and were given > no training. This has led to very isolated cases of QuikClot not being used > correctly, which is where you are getting your information from. > The US DOD has publically stated that QuikClot has save numerous lives in > Iraq, and I have personally met many corpsman and military docs who said > QuikClot made the difference between life and death for their patients. > > If you have any additional questions, please feel free to contact me. I > have attached a recent article for you that talks a bit about US military > usage... > > > rmo mailto:rmo@m... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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