Re: Re: Newbie coming through - have Q's

[Guest guest]

WARNING: SCIENCE CONTENT.

Mike from MT said:

My tensor fascia lata (fascia connecting my hip to my knee) ...

Not to pick nits, Mike, but the TFL is actually a muscle (I had thought it was

fascia too, since it's called the tensor fascia lata). Its origin is the iliac

crest, the iliac spine, and the fascia lata (see below) and its insertion point

is the IT band, which runs from the hip to the knee. See

http://www.rad.washington.edu/atlas2/tensorfascialata.html . and

http://www.exrx.net/Muscles/TensorFasciaeLatae.html and

http://www.coachr.org/tfl.htm for various excellent views. Interesting, before

I looked this up I thought the TFL was connected to the glutes, but it's not,

not directly. However, one source said there's a " synergy " between the TFL and

the gluteus medius and minimus. Those glutes and the TFL are innervated by the

gluteal nerve.

On this page, http://www.answers.com/topic/fascia-lata, they go into great

detail about the fascia lata (not the tensor fascia lata) which is the fascia

that encases all and each of the muscles of the thigh (which includes the butt).

Since all the butt muscles connect to this fascia, as does the tensor fascia

lata, the " synergy " may occur becuase of this. This article (which is said to

be from Wikipedia, but sounds like Gray's Anatomy) shows how all the " thigh "

muscles are connected to each other via the fascia lata and could explain why,

for example, when I begin to gt CP pain, even before I'm aware of it, one (or

more?) of my glutes tightens up.

Ann

[Guest guest]

I stand corrected.

Mike

Re: Re: Newbie coming through - have Q's

WARNING: SCIENCE CONTENT.

Mike from MT said:

My tensor fascia lata (fascia connecting my hip to my knee) ...

Not to pick nits, Mike, but the TFL is actually a muscle (I had thought it was

fascia too, since it's called the tensor fascia lata). Its origin is the iliac

crest, the iliac spine, and the fascia lata (see below) and its insertion point

is the IT band, which runs from the hip to the knee. See

http://www.rad.washington.edu/atlas2/tensorfascialata.html . and

http://www.exrx.net/Muscles/TensorFasciaeLatae.html and

http://www.coachr.org/tfl.htm for various excellent views. Interesting, before I

looked this up I thought the TFL was connected to the glutes, but it's not, not

directly. However, one source said there's a " synergy " between the TFL and the

gluteus medius and minimus. Those glutes and the TFL are innervated by the

gluteal nerve.

On this page, http://www.answers.com/topic/fascia-lata, they go into great

detail about the fascia lata (not the tensor fascia lata) which is the fascia

that encases all and each of the muscles of the thigh (which includes the butt).

Since all the butt muscles connect to this fascia, as does the tensor fascia

lata, the " synergy " may occur becuase of this. This article (which is said to be

from Wikipedia, but sounds like Gray's Anatomy) shows how all the " thigh "

muscles are connected to each other via the fascia lata and could explain why,

for example, when I begin to gt CP pain, even before I'm aware of it, one (or

more?) of my glutes tightens up.

Ann

[Guest guest]

Thabks to everyone who has replied, you've been vey helpful

If the only way CP can be diagnosed is with an MRI I'll ask my Dr about having

one, thanks. But everything I've looked at and even my dim Dr says CP is common

in young people and especially young women. Here are some links I looked at

aswell(only 2 because I''m supposed to be doing coursework):

http://healthgate.partners.org/browsing/LearningCenter.asp?fileName=22575.xml & ti\

tle=Chondromalacia%20Patella

http://www.bbc.co.uk/health/ask_the_doctor/chondromalacia.shtml

Did we get our wires crossed somewhere?

Kirsty.

Re: Newbie coming through - have Q's

Kirsty

I realy doubt at 20 years old u have chondromalacia. The only way a

doctor can diagnose chondromalacia with certainty is with an MRI. U

probably have patellafemoral syndrome. If that is the case the best

quick fix for you would be to purchase a pair of foot orthotics.

Usually when a person complains about both hip and knee pain the

best place to start is the feet!!!!!!!! !!

>

> Hey! My name is Kirsty, 20. I've had trouble with both my knees

since

> I was about 12 (8 years ago now). I went to the Dr. about it 5/6

times

> over that period of time and he pretty much spent each visit

> dismissing it as `growing pains' (This coming from the guy who

told me

> I had tonsillitis a week after I had my tonsils out). Eventually he

> did send me to 3 1/2hr Physio sessions but no explanation. But

> finally, after having spent a week in pain with the Army on a

college

> trip (my knees started hurting for the first time when cycling

too), I

> went to the Dr. again and he diagnosed me with Chondromalacia

Pattela

> and gave me an info sheet, painkiller gell (called powergel) and he

> left it at that. I think it's caused in me by misalignment of the

> knees which is fairly noticible now I think of it.

> I started writing this in class when for seemingly for no reason my

> left knee started hurting (why do they do that!? I haven't even

done

> anything majorly physical today.) It's just so annoying.

> Now for the main, really annoying, lifeplan changing bit - I'm on a

> uniformed services course, a course for people going into the

> services. My plans to join the RAF have gone pretty much completely

> down the drain now as I'm told I won't get past the medical. Still

> gotta stick with the course though it's worth 3 Alevels. The

course is

> quite physical and we have fitness tests and sports coming up

again, I

> know not to push myself too far, or when it starts hurting badly;

I've

> been doing muscle strengthening exercises for my legs too.

> I'm thinking of getting leg supports/braces for sports, what's

worked

> for you guys?

> And do your hips hurt because of CP too? (I think it's just

because of

> the misalignment thingy)

> Thanks,

> Kirsty

>

> ^ Wow think I needed to vent ^

> I'm really glad I found these 2 sites I've learnt more from them

than

> I did my Dr.

>

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.

[Guest guest]

Kirsty, you are a smart woman . Those are two of the better links I have seen

defining CP in young people. There is another important lesson here.

Especially with CP, don't let others try and fit a solution for other people to

your situation. Everyone's case of CP is unique and needs a unique and well

thought out course of action by a real professional, and most doctors cannot

qualify as a real professional as far as this condition is concerned.

Mike

MT

Re: Newbie coming through - have Q's

Kirsty

I realy doubt at 20 years old u have chondromalacia. The only way a

doctor can diagnose chondromalacia with certainty is with an MRI. U

probably have patellafemoral syndrome. If that is the case the best

quick fix for you would be to purchase a pair of foot orthotics.

Usually when a person complains about both hip and knee pain the

best place to start is the feet!!!!!!!! !!

>

> Hey! My name is Kirsty, 20. I've had trouble with both my knees

since

> I was about 12 (8 years ago now). I went to the Dr. about it 5/6

times

> over that period of time and he pretty much spent each visit

> dismissing it as `growing pains' (This coming from the guy who

told me

> I had tonsillitis a week after I had my tonsils out). Eventually he

> did send me to 3 1/2hr Physio sessions but no explanation. But

> finally, after having spent a week in pain with the Army on a

college

> trip (my knees started hurting for the first time when cycling

too), I

> went to the Dr. again and he diagnosed me with Chondromalacia

Pattela

> and gave me an info sheet, painkiller gell (called powergel) and he

> left it at that. I think it's caused in me by misalignment of the

> knees which is fairly noticible now I think of it.

> I started writing this in class when for seemingly for no reason my

> left knee started hurting (why do they do that!? I haven't even

done

> anything majorly physical today.) It's just so annoying.

> Now for the main, really annoying, lifeplan changing bit - I'm on a

> uniformed services course, a course for people going into the

> services. My plans to join the RAF have gone pretty much completely

> down the drain now as I'm told I won't get past the medical. Still

> gotta stick with the course though it's worth 3 Alevels. The

course is

> quite physical and we have fitness tests and sports coming up

again, I

> know not to push myself too far, or when it starts hurting badly;

I've

> been doing muscle strengthening exercises for my legs too.

> I'm thinking of getting leg supports/braces for sports, what's

worked

> for you guys?

> And do your hips hurt because of CP too? (I think it's just

because of

> the misalignment thingy)

> Thanks,

> Kirsty

>

> ^ Wow think I needed to vent ^

> I'm really glad I found these 2 sites I've learnt more from them

than

> I did my Dr.

>

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.

[Guest guest]

Unfortunately, MRI's don't always show the whole picture. My MRI showed

chondromalacia, but arthroscopy showed it to be deeper than the MRI did. Ditto

with a tear in my medial meniscus -- it didn't show up on MRI but the doc saw it

when it went in. So although MRI is very helpful, it's not necessarily

adequate.

Ann

Re: Newbie coming through - have Q's

Kirsty

I realy doubt at 20 years old u have chondromalacia. The only way a

doctor can diagnose chondromalacia with certainty is with an MRI. U

probably have patellafemoral syndrome. If that is the case the best

quick fix for you would be to purchase a pair of foot orthotics.

Usually when a person complains about both hip and knee pain the

best place to start is the feet!!!!!!!! !!

>

> Hey! My name is Kirsty, 20. I've had trouble with both my knees

since

> I was about 12 (8 years ago now). I went to the Dr. about it 5/6

times

> over that period of time and he pretty much spent each visit

> dismissing it as `growing pains' (This coming from the guy who

told me

> I had tonsillitis a week after I had my tonsils out). Eventually he

> did send me to 3 1/2hr Physio sessions but no explanation. But

> finally, after having spent a week in pain with the Army on a

college

> trip (my knees started hurting for the first time when cycling

too), I

> went to the Dr. again and he diagnosed me with Chondromalacia

Pattela

> and gave me an info sheet, painkiller gell (called powergel) and he

> left it at that. I think it's caused in me by misalignment of the

> knees which is fairly noticible now I think of it.

> I started writing this in class when for seemingly for no reason my

> left knee started hurting (why do they do that!? I haven't even

done

> anything majorly physical today.) It's just so annoying.

> Now for the main, really annoying, lifeplan changing bit - I'm on a

> uniformed services course, a course for people going into the

> services. My plans to join the RAF have gone pretty much completely

> down the drain now as I'm told I won't get past the medical. Still

> gotta stick with the course though it's worth 3 Alevels. The

course is

> quite physical and we have fitness tests and sports coming up

again, I

> know not to push myself too far, or when it starts hurting badly;

I've

> been doing muscle strengthening exercises for my legs too.

> I'm thinking of getting leg supports/braces for sports, what's

worked

> for you guys?

> And do your hips hurt because of CP too? (I think it's just

because of

> the misalignment thingy)

> Thanks,

> Kirsty

>

> ^ Wow think I needed to vent ^

> I'm really glad I found these 2 sites I've learnt more from them

than

> I did my Dr.

>

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.

[Guest guest]

I was told that it is very common for women to get CP due to the fact that we

have larger hips than men (as if that is not bad enough already). It is possible

that you have cp, it is also possible that the doctor did not know what was

wrong with your knees, diagnosed you with cp. I was 30 when I was diagnosed but

I had direct blunt trauma to my knees when I hit the dashboard during a car

accident. I was misdiagnosed from my MRI, so be careful what your MRI shows.

Mine showed a torn miniscus and it was not until the doctor was inside my knee

to repair it that he realized that my pain was from CP and I got a lateral

release instead. I have not read all posts so I am not sure if anyone else had

mentioned this, I do not agree with a doctor telling you that you will not pass

a physical. There are so many different varations of CP that there is no way for

him to know that, I think the line between passing your physical or not passing

lies with you. Depends on your level of pain

and how much you are willing to take. If you do have CP it is possible that a

very physical activity can set you back with pain for months. The only relief I

have gotten up to this point is from ice, Aleve, and moving to a house with no

stairs.

Best of luck to you,

Ann <ruby2zdy@...> wrote:

Unfortunately, MRI's don't always show the whole picture. My MRI

showed chondromalacia, but arthroscopy showed it to be deeper than the MRI did.

Ditto with a tear in my medial meniscus -- it didn't show up on MRI but the doc

saw it when it went in. So although MRI is very helpful, it's not necessarily

adequate.

Ann

Re: Newbie coming through - have Q's

Kirsty

I realy doubt at 20 years old u have chondromalacia. The only way a

doctor can diagnose chondromalacia with certainty is with an MRI. U

probably have patellafemoral syndrome. If that is the case the best

quick fix for you would be to purchase a pair of foot orthotics.

Usually when a person complains about both hip and knee pain the

best place to start is the feet!!!!!!!! !!

>

> Hey! My name is Kirsty, 20. I've had trouble with both my knees

since

> I was about 12 (8 years ago now). I went to the Dr. about it 5/6

times

> over that period of time and he pretty much spent each visit

> dismissing it as `growing pains' (This coming from the guy who

told me

> I had tonsillitis a week after I had my tonsils out). Eventually he

> did send me to 3 1/2hr Physio sessions but no explanation. But

> finally, after having spent a week in pain with the Army on a

college

> trip (my knees started hurting for the first time when cycling

too), I

> went to the Dr. again and he diagnosed me with Chondromalacia

Pattela

> and gave me an info sheet, painkiller gell (called powergel) and he

> left it at that. I think it's caused in me by misalignment of the

> knees which is fairly noticible now I think of it.

> I started writing this in class when for seemingly for no reason my

> left knee started hurting (why do they do that!? I haven't even

done

> anything majorly physical today.) It's just so annoying.

> Now for the main, really annoying, lifeplan changing bit - I'm on a

> uniformed services course, a course for people going into the

> services. My plans to join the RAF have gone pretty much completely

> down the drain now as I'm told I won't get past the medical. Still

> gotta stick with the course though it's worth 3 Alevels. The

course is

> quite physical and we have fitness tests and sports coming up

again, I

> know not to push myself too far, or when it starts hurting badly;

I've

> been doing muscle strengthening exercises for my legs too.

> I'm thinking of getting leg supports/braces for sports, what's

worked

> for you guys?

> And do your hips hurt because of CP too? (I think it's just

because of

> the misalignment thingy)

> Thanks,

> Kirsty

>

> ^ Wow think I needed to vent ^

> I'm really glad I found these 2 sites I've learnt more from them

than

> I did my Dr.

>

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.

[Guest guest]

Zachsmith2 wrote: (my replies are in green)

Kirsty

Im 46 six years old and came down with Chondro about two years ago.

I started working out with heavy weights when i was 16. I did heavy

squats 3 times a week with at least 300 pounds for almost 30 years.

The only people I know who have chondro are people who have worked

at gyms for many years, Serious Bikers and old fat ladies.

This might be true.I did a ton of weight lifting and long distance bicycling

when I was young as well as competitive volleyball, track, badminton and

downhill skiing, none of which are good for knees!

Most of the people here are over 40 years old and its a disgrace for

these people to convince a young gal like u that u have chondro.

Why is it a disgrace? Nobody is trying to convince Kristy that she has CP,

but it is possible! Just being over 40 doesn't mean a thing. I was diagnosed

with CP when I was in my 20's and it was diagnosed with arthroscopic

surgery.

Here are my suggestions for you

1. If your overweight go on a diet.

2. Get checked for Scoliosis. This is probably the number one

reason why young girls have problems with their knees. A curve in

your back can throw off your alignment. Usually in your early

twenties these problems start showing up. Make sure the the

chiropractor or doctor checks your leg length. When u went to visit

your doctor did he do this??? I doubt it!! Most doctors dont want

to wast their time. They'd rather give u a prescription and send u

on your way.

3. Get a pair of orthotics. Especially if a doctor or chiropractor

diagnosis u with scoliosis.

4. The most important thing. Find yourself a good Motion Control

Athletic Shoe. Lots of young women scimp by buying cheap shoes. A

good motion control shoe should cost around 90 dollars. Look at

brands from New Balance and Saucony. This suggestion might be a

quick fix.

5. Physical Therapy. A therapist can give you a specific routine to

help strengthen and stretch specific muscles to alleviate your

problems. Usually takes about 4 to 6 weeks to take affect.

6 Try Yoga. Women love yoga. Find a friend with similar interest.

7. Eat healthy foods. Stay away from burgers, pizza and shakes.

Try eating living foods like raw vegetables and salads. U might

want to make sure your getting sufficient amino acids because they

help in repairing tissues and decrease tendonitis.

Good suggestions. I found I was able to control my CP with both surgery and

PT, but I was a grade 3 when I was in my 20's, so mine were probably worse

than yours, Kristy. At least I hope so!

Joi

[Guest guest]

There's a 'new " procedure that hasn't been approved by the FDA yet, but has been

approved in Canada for 1 year & a half and in Europe for 4+ years. It's called

SaluCartilage (see

http://www.salumedica.com/pdf/MK-029-02%2003-05%20WW%20SaluCartilage.pdf,

http://www.salumedica.com/pdf/MK-019-02%2005-05%20WW.pdf, and

http://www.salumedica.com/salucartinfodoc.htm ). It's plugs made of a very

tough polymer. The OS reams out your CP spots to make them circular and a

certain depth, pushes in the plugs, and Bob's yer uncle. No glue, even. No

healing period.

I corresponded with an Italian Dr. who comes over here to lecture on the

procedure and out of the 40 he'd done (early this year) he had one failure, and

I suspect that was early in his experience with the plugs. The FDA is notorious

(my doc confirmed this) for waiting until procedures have been tried in Europe

for 20 years before approving them here (but of course they approve drugs w/o

proper testing). I've tried to find out from the company that makes them

(they're in GA) and the FDA when the plugs will be approved here, but to no

avail. The Italian doc said he would charge me 15,000 euros (about $18K).

That's a LOT compared to surgery costs here (US). I don't know what they charge

in Canada, but I do know that Canadians have to wait months, into years, for

procedures. Their health care system has gone to hell.

Anyway, if you have $18K to spend on it and want that procedure done, I can give

you the e-mail of the Italian doc. It's been approved all over Europe, so if

you trust, say, German docs more, you'd need to do some research to find

someone.

Ann

Re: Newbie coming through - have Q's

Kirsty

I realy doubt at 20 years old u have chondromalacia. The only way a

doctor can diagnose chondromalacia with certainty is with an MRI. U

probably have patellafemoral syndrome. If that is the case the best

quick fix for you would be to purchase a pair of foot orthotics.

Usually when a person complains about both hip and knee pain the

best place to start is the feet!!!!!!!! !!

>

> Hey! My name is Kirsty, 20. I've had trouble with both my knees

since

> I was about 12 (8 years ago now). I went to the Dr. about it 5/6

times

> over that period of time and he pretty much spent each visit

> dismissing it as `growing pains' (This coming from the guy who

told me

> I had tonsillitis a week after I had my tonsils out). Eventually he

> did send me to 3 1/2hr Physio sessions but no explanation. But

> finally, after having spent a week in pain with the Army on a

college

> trip (my knees started hurting for the first time when cycling

too), I

> went to the Dr. again and he diagnosed me with Chondromalacia

Pattela

> and gave me an info sheet, painkiller gell (called powergel) and he

> left it at that. I think it's caused in me by misalignment of the

> knees which is fairly noticible now I think of it.

> I started writing this in class when for seemingly for no reason my

> left knee started hurting (why do they do that!? I haven't even

done

> anything majorly physical today.) It's just so annoying.

> Now for the main, really annoying, lifeplan changing bit - I'm on a

> uniformed services course, a course for people going into the

> services. My plans to join the RAF have gone pretty much completely

> down the drain now as I'm told I won't get past the medical. Still

> gotta stick with the course though it's worth 3 Alevels. The

course is

> quite physical and we have fitness tests and sports coming up

again, I

> know not to push myself too far, or when it starts hurting badly;

I've

> been doing muscle strengthening exercises for my legs too.

> I'm thinking of getting leg supports/braces for sports, what's

worked

> for you guys?

> And do your hips hurt because of CP too? (I think it's just

because of

> the misalignment thingy)

> Thanks,

> Kirsty

>

> ^ Wow think I needed to vent ^

> I'm really glad I found these 2 sites I've learnt more from them

than

> I did my Dr.

>

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.

[Guest guest]

*warning I have written a lot*

After a rather painful football match yesterday I got fed up an made an

appointment to see the Dr again and I don't intend to leave this time until I

get some decent answers and actual help. I've had enough of being given the run

around by them for years. I'll see the Dr on Mon and I'm in a standing up for

myself mode this week so God help him

" I have not read all posts so I am not sure if anyone else had mentioned this,

I do not agree with a doctor telling you that you will not pass a physical.There

are so many different varations of CP that there is no way for him to know that,

I think the line between passing your physical or not passing lies with you.

Depends on your level of pain " -

Whoops when I typed physical I meant medical but the physical(tests) is another

problem I suppose. The pain is the problem, I do a lot of activities anyway but

can only continue till it gets to painful, which is increasing taking less time

to get to that point, which'd be a problem through training and at some point I

could end up putting others at risk. I need my Dr to treat me so I get 'fit'

enough to make it (I live in hope). I think I'm gonna be looking at a career as

a civilian with the military or , dare I say it...a youth worker. Thank you

.

Kirsty

Below I have answered some of the things from previous e-posts, in this topic,

in italic.

Thanks everyone!

----- Original Message ----

From: zacksmith2 <no_reply >

Kirsty

Im 46 six years old and came down with Chondro about two years ago.

I started working out with heavy weights when i was 16. I did heavy

squats 3 times a week with at least 300 pounds for almost 30 years.

The only people I know who have chondro are people who have worked

at gyms for many years, Serious Bikers and old fat ladies.

I love cycling , I'm a cycle ranger for my county, I cycle every where and it

really (can't say the word I want to here so..)annoys me that my knees now hurt

when I'm cycling or even when I'm just walking a few miles.

Most of the people here are over 40 years old and its a disgrace for

these people to convince a young gal like u that u have chondro.

Why is it a disgrace, CP is common in young women and young athletes. Hedy and

Joi?? also other young women who replied to this were both diagnosed at my age.

Young people do get CP and everything I've looked at as well tells me this most

likely, that's why I'm inclined to actually believe him.

Here are my suggestions for you

1. If your overweight go on a diet.

Normal weight.

2. Get checked for Scoliosis. This is probably the number one

reason why young girls have problems with their knees. A curve in

your back can throw off your alignment. Usually in your early

twenties these problems start showing up. Make sure the the

chiropractor or doctor checks your leg length. When u went to visit

your doctor did he do this???

Like I said my knees are fairly obviously at a less than normal angle. I've had

problems with my knees since my early to mid teens. I will make sure he does a

proper examination this time (Like I said standing up for myself mood )

3. Get a pair of orthotics. Especially if a doctor or chiropractor

diagnosis u with scoliosis.

4. The most important thing. Find yourself a good Motion Control

Athletic Shoe. Lots of young women scimp by buying cheap shoes. A

good motion control shoe should cost around 90 dollars. Look at

brands from New Balance and Saucony. This suggestion might be a

quick fix.

Women cheap shoes, lol. But seriously I do wear proper athletics shoes we're

taught the importance of that kind of thing on my college course.

5. Physical Therapy. A therapist can give you a specific routine to

help strengthen and stretch specific muscles to alleviate your

problems. Usually takes about 4 to 6 weeks to take affect.

Did do some physio via the Dr I still do the exercises the physio set, again

I'll ask about more physio on mon.

6 Try Yoga. Women love yoga. Find a friend with similar interest.

Oh God yoga! I hate yoga, I do street defence though. I hear swimming may help.

7. Eat healthy foods. Stay away from burgers, pizza and shakes.

Try eating living foods like raw vegetables and salads. U might

want to make sure your getting sufficient amino acids because they

help in repairing tissues and decrease tendonitis.

I love my veg I'll look into amino acid foods, thanks!

Remember!! You're only 20 years old and at your age the human body

has a tremendous ability to heal itself. I have found you'll get

alot better care by goin to alternative health professionals such as

Chiropractors, Podiatrists and some Osteopaths than MDs.

I feel old , . When I visit the Dr on Mon I do intend to try and get

myself referred to a 'knee person'.

Take Care!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!! !!!!!

You too, Thanks.

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Just to let you know, Saucony shoes, for me..... made me limp worse, therefore

making my pain worse. I have found a very good pair of addidas running shoes can

get me a little further on foot these days. NewBalance are comfortable but not

very nice to look at! Let us know what your doctor says. It is best to write

down all your questions before you get into his office, that way he cannot side

track you from your list of original questions.

Kirsty <phillips365157@...> wrote:

*warning I have written a lot*

After a rather painful football match yesterday I got fed up an made an

appointment to see the Dr again and I don't intend to leave this time until I

get some decent answers and actual help. I've had enough of being given the run

around by them for years. I'll see the Dr on Mon and I'm in a standing up for

myself mode this week so God help him

" I have not read all posts so I am not sure if anyone else had mentioned this,

I do not agree with a doctor telling you that you will not pass a physical.There

are so many different varations of CP that there is no way for him to know that,

I think the line between passing your physical or not passing lies with you.

Depends on your level of pain " -

Whoops when I typed physical I meant medical but the physical(tests) is another

problem I suppose. The pain is the problem, I do a lot of activities anyway but

can only continue till it gets to painful, which is increasing taking less time

to get to that point, which'd be a problem through training and at some point I

could end up putting others at risk. I need my Dr to treat me so I get 'fit'

enough to make it (I live in hope). I think I'm gonna be looking at a career as

a civilian with the military or , dare I say it...a youth worker. Thank you

.

Kirsty

Below I have answered some of the things from previous e-posts, in this topic,

in italic.

Thanks everyone!

----- Original Message ----

From: zacksmith2 <no_reply >

Kirsty

Im 46 six years old and came down with Chondro about two years ago.

I started working out with heavy weights when i was 16. I did heavy

squats 3 times a week with at least 300 pounds for almost 30 years.

The only people I know who have chondro are people who have worked

at gyms for many years, Serious Bikers and old fat ladies.

I love cycling , I'm a cycle ranger for my county, I cycle every where and it

really (can't say the word I want to here so..)annoys me that my knees now hurt

when I'm cycling or even when I'm just walking a few miles.

Most of the people here are over 40 years old and its a disgrace for

these people to convince a young gal like u that u have chondro.

Why is it a disgrace, CP is common in young women and young athletes. Hedy and

Joi?? also other young women who replied to this were both diagnosed at my age.

Young people do get CP and everything I've looked at as well tells me this most

likely, that's why I'm inclined to actually believe him.

Here are my suggestions for you

1. If your overweight go on a diet.

Normal weight.

2. Get checked for Scoliosis. This is probably the number one

reason why young girls have problems with their knees. A curve in

your back can throw off your alignment. Usually in your early

twenties these problems start showing up. Make sure the the

chiropractor or doctor checks your leg length. When u went to visit

your doctor did he do this???

Like I said my knees are fairly obviously at a less than normal angle. I've had

problems with my knees since my early to mid teens. I will make sure he does a

proper examination this time (Like I said standing up for myself mood )

3. Get a pair of orthotics. Especially if a doctor or chiropractor

diagnosis u with scoliosis.

4. The most important thing. Find yourself a good Motion Control

Athletic Shoe. Lots of young women scimp by buying cheap shoes. A

good motion control shoe should cost around 90 dollars. Look at

brands from New Balance and Saucony. This suggestion might be a

quick fix.

Women cheap shoes, lol. But seriously I do wear proper athletics shoes we're

taught the importance of that kind of thing on my college course.

5. Physical Therapy. A therapist can give you a specific routine to

help strengthen and stretch specific muscles to alleviate your

problems. Usually takes about 4 to 6 weeks to take affect.

Did do some physio via the Dr I still do the exercises the physio set, again

I'll ask about more physio on mon.

6 Try Yoga. Women love yoga. Find a friend with similar interest.

Oh God yoga! I hate yoga, I do street defence though. I hear swimming may help.

7. Eat healthy foods. Stay away from burgers, pizza and shakes.

Try eating living foods like raw vegetables and salads. U might

want to make sure your getting sufficient amino acids because they

help in repairing tissues and decrease tendonitis.

I love my veg I'll look into amino acid foods, thanks!

Remember!! You're only 20 years old and at your age the human body

has a tremendous ability to heal itself. I have found you'll get

alot better care by goin to alternative health professionals such as

Chiropractors, Podiatrists and some Osteopaths than MDs.

I feel old , . When I visit the Dr on Mon I do intend to try and get

myself referred to a 'knee person'.

Take Care!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!! !!!!!

You too, Thanks.

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I'm also on the total joint replacement forum, and there are young people there

who have chondromalacia and some have even had TKRs in their 20's and 30's.

Ann

Re: Newbie coming through - have Q's

> Kirsty

>

> I realy doubt at 20 years old u have chondromalacia. The only way a

> doctor can diagnose chondromalacia with certainty is with an MRI. U

> probably have patellafemoral syndrome. If that is the case the best

> quick fix for you would be to purchase a pair of foot orthotics.

> Usually when a person complains about both hip and knee pain the

> best place to start is the feet!!!!!!!!!!

>

Hi,

I'm only 22 and I have chondro! Just developed it two months ago. I

haven't gotten any better. Most days I can't even walk. It happened

when I took a class at the gym and did lunges wayyyyyy too tast. It

was so fast that on my way down each time, it was not a controlled

movement. I would " fall " down each time. I was just following the

teacher!

-Hedy

[Guest guest]

Hello Mark,

Ok, I'm not good at describing pain though. When I'm walking or doing sports it

starts as an ache that gets worse as I go on but feels a bit better is I take

the weight of my knee for a while, till I put the weight on it again. If I bend

my leg (stretch by standing on one leg and holding the ankle)

it feels a bit better too, I think because I'm taking the pressure off my knee,

but when I do that it makes my knee does a

mildly-amusing-but-probably-not-at-all-good crunching thing. I can also feel the

patella move awkwardly (moving roughly) if I put my hand on my knee when I'm

cycling, the pain feels slightly sharper I think. When I'm driving and I stop

and get out my knee is stiff and aches a bit from not moving. Last

one...sometimes when I'm sitting especially more recently I get a quick sharp

pain and I don't know why.

I seem to be tripping over my own knee now too, my leg keeps moving but the

knee's locked- not really a pain I know.

Hows that^ like I said not good at describing, though thanks for asking me as I

think I'll print this off for when I go to the Dr, It'll save me the stuttering.

And I again I wrote a lot, sorry.

Kirsty

Re: Newbie coming through - have Q's

Kirsty; I have been following your message and the gang's

responses... .

What do you call pain? Can you describe it in words - i.e., the actual

sensation - is it like an electric shock - is it like a dull ache - is

it like a muscle locking - is it a spasm of the nerves OR muscles - is

it like a cold burn - is it like hypersensitive skin - can you kneel

on your knee if so what happens then?

Just describe it as best you can - go deep and spell it out!!!

Mark

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[Guest guest]

It might be a torn meniscus.

Ann

Re: Newbie coming through - have Q's

Kirsty; I have been following your message and the gang's responses... .

What do you call pain? Can you describe it in words - i.e., the actual

sensation - is it like an electric shock - is it like a dull ache - is

it like a muscle locking - is it a spasm of the nerves OR muscles - is

it like a cold burn - is it like hypersensitive skin - can you kneel

on your knee if so what happens then?

Just describe it as best you can - go deep and spell it out!!!

Mark

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In both my knees, if it is I'm unlucky , I'll bring it up when I see her (I'm

seeing a new Dr apparently so she might be better than the others.)

So when I got to the Dr I'm gonna ask about an xray/mri, those are the right

things right?

Thanks,

Kirsty.

Re: Newbie coming through - have Q's

Kirsty; I have been following your message and the gang's responses... .

What do you call pain? Can you describe it in words - i.e., the actual

sensation - is it like an electric shock - is it like a dull ache - is

it like a muscle locking - is it a spasm of the nerves OR muscles - is

it like a cold burn - is it like hypersensitive skin - can you kneel

on your knee if so what happens then?

Just describe it as best you can - go deep and spell it out!!!

Mark

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[Guest guest]

X-ray shows bones & vague outlines of other tissues (even clothes), and MRI

shows soft tissues, although it's not nearly an infallible as we'd like it to

be, esp. for what they charge for doing one.

CT scans are for soft tissue (they're high-falutin' X-rays), but can also show

things like cartilage. If they do a CT scan, ask for a 3-D & ask to see it.

They're really cool. CT's are a little cheaper than MRI's.

Good luck.

Ann

Re: Newbie coming through - have Q's

Kirsty; I have been following your message and the gang's responses... .

What do you call pain? Can you describe it in words - i.e., the actual

sensation - is it like an electric shock - is it like a dull ache - is

it like a muscle locking - is it a spasm of the nerves OR muscles - is

it like a cold burn - is it like hypersensitive skin - can you kneel

on your knee if so what happens then?

Just describe it as best you can - go deep and spell it out!!!

Mark

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Mark,

Wow, that all sounds so much fun ,

My right knee's worse than my left one.

Took your suggestion and I just went out and brought glucosamine this morning

after some research, thank you.

Yep I'm going to check out orthodics, again I'll ask the Dr too.

Uh can't say I have noticed any " bunion " type growths on my shins or near my

knees.

Kneeling (kneeling how?) , if I kneel sitting on my heels (something like this

- /_ except actually sat on my heels) nothing feels wrong, except if I stay

like that for too long the back of my knees hurt and are stiff when I get up. If

I sit like this at 90degrees ( |_ ) it just doesn't feel right... none of that

probably makes any sense.

Thanks you've been a big help.

Kirsty.

Re: Newbie coming through - have Q's

OK: you are well advanced ... very strange that you have it

" equally "

in both knee's..!!!. .. and at such a young age...!!! unfortunately

next stage for you is sharp pain and sleepless nights!! Management is

important NOW!!! Over exertion and you will end up like the rest of

us!!!

I don't recall you saying you were taking glucomsamine etc,.. to see

if you can " rejuvenate " your cartilage but I would be doing that ...

a lot of us on this site have not had a lot of success with the

cartilage supp's mainly because we are too old (not in spirit) and

did I see you were checking out orthotics to get your hip/ knee/

ankle alignment under control ... very important if you believe this

was the main contributing cause??

Just out of interest ... have you noticed any " bunion " type growths

starting near your knee area (below the knee cap) or even directly

behind the knee or down your shins anywhere???

Can you kneel on your knees?? (good litmus test for CP)

If you haven't followed my story (carticel implant at 48) I have been

very lucky as technology has caught up and I was identified as a

suitable candidate to repair the large hole in the back of my knee

cap (see our group's photo's / files section) BUT it has been a six

month commitment.. . another member of this group is going through

this procedure very shortly as well...!!!

You need to avoid this sort of surgery at your age by managing

your " discomfort " and staying mobile without further tearing /

shredding of your cartilage surface..!!!

Trust me by pushing through the pain you will go backwards very

quickly with this condition..and end up potentially into the sharp

pain end of the scale like many of us here get - nothing like a good

mixture of all day and all night dull ache with a few good sharp

bites to keep you awake at night..!!

lack of sleep is a side condition of CP that changes with the colder

weather as well (or high and low pressure changes)

Does this help a bit...???

Mark

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[Guest guest]

Hello,

I went to the Dr today and apart from shooting down every question (I was

organised and had written them down) and making me feel stupid, she made me

start to stutter again.

She did say the 'first stop' for me was physio (already been to that 'first

stop'). I'm now on the physio waiting list (3-4months) which is a lot better

than nothing. So I guess I'm spending the next few months doing old physio

exercises, and taking glucosamine.

Thanks for all your input and help guys!

Kirsty.

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[Guest guest]

Kirsty,

Hang inthere. Docs can be VERY intimidating. Most have poor bedside

manners and they are not used to being questioned. My doc got his feathers

ruffled a bit when I went for a second opinion and asked him to make changes

to me rehab based on the other docs opinion.

They really perk up if you talk about the details of a surgery. Once I told

my doc that I watched the Carticel operation on a webcast and thought it was

incredible how he could do such a delicate procedure, he perked up and

became very talkative. He even ran off to get me a sample of the tiny silk

he would use to sew the flap in.

Anyway, keep asking and if he/she does not become a better communicator, you

may need to move on to another doc.

My wife is much better at making the docs talk so I drag her to my OS visits

when I know we will be getting into something importants.

Don

On 10/23/06, Kirsty <phillips365157@...> wrote:

>

> Hello,

> I went to the Dr today and apart from shooting down every question (I was

> organised and had written them down) and making me feel stupid, she made me

> start to stutter again.

> She did say the 'first stop' for me was physio (already been to that

> 'first stop'). I'm now on the physio waiting list (3-4months) which is a

> lot better than nothing. So I guess I'm spending the next few months doing

> old physio exercises, and taking glucosamine.

> Thanks for all your input and help guys!

> Kirsty.

>

>

> Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Don, If it's the same physio as it was last time I may be able to

convince her to actually do something as she's more of a people person than the

Dr's at my surgery.

I'm glad your feeling better, and stay well!

Kirsty.

*Breaks out medical dictionary in preparation for next Dr visit* mumbles - " Beat

'em at their own game " *shakes fist*

Re: Re: Newbie coming through - have Q's

Kirsty,

Hang inthere. Docs can be VERY intimidating. Most have poor bedside

manners and they are not used to being questioned. My doc got his feathers

ruffled a bit when I went for a second opinion and asked him to make changes

to me rehab based on the other docs opinion.

They really perk up if you talk about the details of a surgery. Once I told

my doc that I watched the Carticel operation on a webcast and thought it was

incredible how he could do such a delicate procedure, he perked up and

became very talkative. He even ran off to get me a sample of the tiny silk

he would use to sew the flap in.

Anyway, keep asking and if he/she does not become a better communicator, you

may need to move on to another doc.

My wife is much better at making the docs talk so I drag her to my OS visits

when I know we will be getting into something importants.

Don

On 10/23/06, Kirsty <phillips365157@ .co. uk> wrote:

>

> Hello,

> I went to the Dr today and apart from shooting down every question (I was

> organised and had written them down) and making me feel stupid, she made me

> start to stutter again.

> She did say the 'first stop' for me was physio (already been to that

> 'first stop'). I'm now on the physio waiting list (3-4months) which is a

> lot better than nothing. So I guess I'm spending the next few months doing

> old physio exercises, and taking glucosamine.

> Thanks for all your input and help guys!

> Kirsty.

>

>

> Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger .

>

>

[Guest guest]

Can you get a new doctor?

Ann S.

Re: Re: Newbie coming through - have Q's

Hello,

I went to the Dr today and apart from shooting down every question (I was

organised and had written them down) and making me feel stupid, she made me

start to stutter again.

She did say the 'first stop' for me was physio (already been to that 'first

stop'). I'm now on the physio waiting list (3-4months) which is a lot better

than nothing. So I guess I'm spending the next few months doing old physio

exercises, and taking glucosamine.

Thanks for all your input and help guys!

Kirsty.

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.

[Guest guest]

Ann,

There is a surgery nearer me I've been thinking about trying to get into, now I

think I'll do it.

First I want to write to my present Dr and explain all the stuff she wouldn't

let me say (matter of pride ) then I'm rpobabky off to the new surgery.

Thanks

Kirsty.

Re: Re: Newbie coming through - have Q's

Hello,

I went to the Dr today and apart from shooting down every question (I was

organised and had written them down) and making me feel stupid, she made me

start to stutter again.

She did say the 'first stop' for me was physio (already been to that 'first

stop'). I'm now on the physio waiting list (3-4months) which is a lot better

than nothing. So I guess I'm spending the next few months doing old physio

exercises, and taking glucosamine.

Thanks for all your input and help guys!

Kirsty.

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger .