Guest guest Posted December 29, 2003 Report Share Posted December 29, 2003 I read this with interest as we use these alot off shore I would have a tendency to use the basket stretcher in conjunction with a compatatable backboard , however we have successfully on many occasions used one as a stand alone device and transfered and examined the casualty with out any problem regards Pete Reynolds Basket Stretchers > This popped up on the ECO list. > Any comments from you chaps used to these bits of kit? > > > Cheers > > Rod Eglin > > >Firstly seasons greetings to the list. > > > I spent most of the early hours of xmas eve at the end of a farm track > > waiting for the coastguard cliff rescue chaps to hand over an attempted > > suicide who had fallen off a cliff while on his way to jump from one. > After > > a couple of uneventful hours they turned up in a land rover with the > patient > > sticking out the tail gate, all packaged up in a basket stretcher, & said > > they would follow on to hospital later to retrieve their kit. Patient had > > " fallen " at 5pm after leaving a note as to his intentions but had it had > > taken until 2am to find him, so he was cold, dehydrated & c/o severe pain > to > > his mid thoracic spine. when we arrived at A & E the staff were lass than > > pleased to discover the patient all wrapped up & secured in the basket & a > > discussion took place as to the difficulties it gave them in assessing > him. > > This got me thinking, how, with a high index of suspicion, do the remote > > guys put their patients in these things in the first place & how would > they > > recommend getting ! > > > them out, while protecting a possibly unstable spine? > > > > > > Dougie > > > > --- Message sent by Emergency Care Online --- > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 29, 2003 Report Share Posted December 29, 2003 Another interested reader. The guy had been out in a hostile environment for several hours I would presume hypothermic rather than cold and in a state of mental and physical shock unless this is not the UK we are speaking about. Difficulty in assessing a patient in such conditions only goes to show the unprofessionalism and lack of resourcefulness of the team (adapt and over come). Wouldn't they have a lovely time with a thermal body bag and delivered in a Paraguard or similar stretcher. Bye the way we here normally use a scoop stretcher to get a suspected spine injury patient into and out of a basket stretcher, works a treat. Tony M PS Happy New Year to all on duty. Re: Basket Stretchers I read this with interest as we use these alot off shore I would have a tendency to use the basket stretcher in conjunction with a compatatable backboard , however we have successfully on many occasions used one as a stand alone device and transfered and examined the casualty with out any problem regards Pete Reynolds Basket Stretchers > This popped up on the ECO list. > Any comments from you chaps used to these bits of kit? > > > Cheers > > Rod Eglin > > >Firstly seasons greetings to the list. > > > I spent most of the early hours of xmas eve at the end of a farm track > > waiting for the coastguard cliff rescue chaps to hand over an attempted > > suicide who had fallen off a cliff while on his way to jump from one. > After > > a couple of uneventful hours they turned up in a land rover with the > patient > > sticking out the tail gate, all packaged up in a basket stretcher, & said > > they would follow on to hospital later to retrieve their kit. Patient had > > " fallen " at 5pm after leaving a note as to his intentions but had it had > > taken until 2am to find him, so he was cold, dehydrated & c/o severe pain > to > > his mid thoracic spine. when we arrived at A & E the staff were lass than > > pleased to discover the patient all wrapped up & secured in the basket & a > > discussion took place as to the difficulties it gave them in assessing > him. > > This got me thinking, how, with a high index of suspicion, do the remote > > guys put their patients in these things in the first place & how would > they > > recommend getting ! > > > them out, while protecting a possibly unstable spine? > > > > > > Dougie > > > > --- Message sent by Emergency Care Online --- > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 29, 2003 Report Share Posted December 29, 2003 I would agree with the use of a scoop stretcher as well as they are most useful in the transfer of a casualty also I am surprised they did not use a paraguard / neil robertson stretcher would have been a lot easier regards pete Basket Stretchers > > > > This popped up on the ECO list. > > Any comments from you chaps used to these bits of kit? > > > > > > Cheers > > > > Rod Eglin > > > > >Firstly seasons greetings to the list. > > > > I spent most of the early hours of xmas eve at the end of a farm track > > > waiting for the coastguard cliff rescue chaps to hand over an attempted > > > suicide who had fallen off a cliff while on his way to jump from one. > > After > > > a couple of uneventful hours they turned up in a land rover with the > > patient > > > sticking out the tail gate, all packaged up in a basket stretcher, & > said > > > they would follow on to hospital later to retrieve their kit. Patient > had > > > " fallen " at 5pm after leaving a note as to his intentions but had it had > > > taken until 2am to find him, so he was cold, dehydrated & c/o severe > pain > > to > > > his mid thoracic spine. when we arrived at A & E the staff were lass > than > > > pleased to discover the patient all wrapped up & secured in the basket & > a > > > discussion took place as to the difficulties it gave them in assessing > > him. > > > This got me thinking, how, with a high index of suspicion, do the remote > > > guys put their patients in these things in the first place & how would > > they > > > recommend getting ! > > > > them out, while protecting a possibly unstable spine? > > > > > > > > Dougie > > > > > > --- Message sent by Emergency Care Online --- > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 29, 2003 Report Share Posted December 29, 2003 Firstly, I'm very surprised, most HM Coastguard Cliff Rescue teams are equipped with the Troll Alphin Lite stretcher and the Troll evac body splint, which should be used with a collar and a short spinal immobilisation device (KED,TED). From my experience the coastguard team,usually take a Paramedic down with them if trained or call in a Helicopter, with trained medical staff, I known that a normal coastguards training in First Aid is poor, but it depends on local conditions etc.(Please note, I'm not knocking coastguards in general ok !). There are teams that have Doctors and Paramedics on the teams, but that is not the norm. To remove somebody out of a basket, you could always try a " scoop sandwich " ,this involves placing a scoop on top of the patient and turning, so the patient ends up prone, then place another scoop, on the patients back and then turning again ending up with the patient supine on a scoop, this could be replaced with a long board and headhuggers, this technique is labour intensive and very differcult in confined space,ideal in A & E. Just my two pennies worth anyway. Kind regards Russ Wells. PS Happy New Year to everybody. --- pg reynolds <pg.r@...> wrote: > I would agree with the use of a scoop stretcher as > well as they are most > useful in the transfer of a casualty also I am > surprised they did not use a paraguard / neil > robertson stretcher would have > been a lot easier > regards pete Basket Stretchers > > > > > > > This popped up on the ECO list. > > > Any comments from you chaps used to these bits > of kit? > > > > > > > > > Cheers > > > > > > Rod Eglin > > > > > > >Firstly seasons greetings to the list. > > > > > I spent most of the early hours of xmas eve > at the end of a farm > track > > > > waiting for the coastguard cliff rescue chaps > to hand over an > attempted > > > > suicide who had fallen off a cliff while on > his way to jump from one. > > > After > > > > a couple of uneventful hours they turned up in > a land rover with the > > > patient > > > > sticking out the tail gate, all packaged up in > a basket stretcher, & > > said > > > > they would follow on to hospital later to > retrieve their kit. Patient > > had > > > > " fallen " at 5pm after leaving a note as to his > intentions but had it > had > > > > taken until 2am to find him, so he was cold, > dehydrated & c/o severe > > pain > > > to > > > > his mid thoracic spine. when we arrived at A > & E the staff were lass > > than > > > > pleased to discover the patient all wrapped up > & secured in the basket > & > > a > > > > discussion took place as to the difficulties > it gave them in assessing > > > him. > > > > This got me thinking, how, with a high index > of suspicion, do the > remote > > > > guys put their patients in these things in the > first place & how would > > > they > > > > recommend getting ! > > > > > them out, while protecting a possibly > unstable spine? > > > > > > > > > > Dougie > > > > > > > > --- Message sent by Emergency Care Online > --- > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > > > > Member Information: > > > > > > List owner: Ian Sharpe Owner@... > > > Editor: Ross Boardman > Editor@... > > > > > > ALL list admin messages (subscriptions & > unsubscriptions) should be sent > > to the list owner. > > > > > > Post message: egroups > > > > > > Please visit our website > http://www.remotemedics.co.uk > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > The Remote Medics Team > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2004 Report Share Posted January 5, 2004 Just catching up on mail after the Break, and would like to comment on some of the matters below. Admittedly I am commenting fro the perspective of an Irish MRT which has limited care possibilities (unlike UKMRTs we are not currently allowed to use drugs) but patient handling is essentially the same. We frequently do the same courses and we use the same equipment as UK MRTs. 1. The ambulance crew mention waiting a couple of uneventful hours. We solved this problem years ago at the request of our local ambulance service who did not want emergency ambulances hanging around doing nothing. We now 'book/pre-order' an emergency ambulance for the time we expect the casualty to be evacuated to the nearest drivable track. We are probably one of the few ambulance service 'customers' who ask for an emergency ambulance several hours (on occasion) before it is required - but the system works to our and the ambulance service satisfaction. 2. Most MRTs in Ireland and the UK do not use basket stretchers, which are more common in industrial and marine rescue. MR stretchers are usually flatbed such as the Troll Alpin or the Bell, frequently with skids, or the McInnes which has non-collapsible sidebars and skis. All MRTs in Ireland and the UK (AFAIK) have vacuum mattresses. 3. In the event of a severely injured patient, the patient should ideally be put in the vacuum mattress, then the entire assembly of patient and mattress put on the stretcher - this may not always be possible. A large patient in winter clothing surrounded by a vacuum mattress will usually not fit between the side rails of a McInnes Stretcher for example. 4. If the patient needs to be removed from the MR stretcher and is in a vacuum mattress, this is done simply by lifting the vacmat from the MR stretcher to the ambulance stretcher usually at handover to the ambulance - the MR stretcher is not sent to the hospital - just the vacmat, I would agree with comments that the MR equipment should be accompanied by MR personnel - to protect the equipment not the patient - it is easy to get more patients. 5. It seems that the A+E staff wanted to quickly assess the patient, rather than think the problem of access through - this may be the practice with ambulance patients arriving from an RTA, as short time after the accident and is usually desirable in those circumstances. A patient arriving from MR, or in the case referred to from the CG, following several hours of rescue, is not in a time critical condition - patients which require ALS in rescue will usually be dead before the rescue is completed. Since the patient is essentially stable as long as he/she is not disturbed, there is time to consider the options available rather than rushing into things; this particular aspect of rescue/remote prehospital care is often not appreciated by ambulance/hospital crews trained to deal with ACLS/.ATLS/PHTLS scenarios. 6. With regard to care in handling, most spinal injuries occur at the time of the initial incident. As long as reasonable care is taken significant additional injury is unlikely. Furthermore, for anybody who has survived a rescue, especially on steep ground/cliffs, kid-glove (rather than just reasonable) care in an ambulance or hospital is unlikely to provide any additional improvement in outcome. 7. Longboards are generally impractical in rescue scenarios and distance off road especially over rough ground. Try carrying one any distance in a gale. Also try strapping a 'volunteer' to one and fitting head blocks to keep the head firmly in position. Now carry the patient over rough ground, tilting the board from side to side and top to bottom for several hours. Note I now use the term patient rather than volunteer as there will definitely be neck trauma before the completion of the exercise. As an aside here, if you need to provide c-spine immobilisation use a KED which immobilises the head relative to the body, not head blocks which immobilise the head relative to the longboard/stretcher. 8. Getting the patient in, as other commentators have said is difficult. Getting the patient out is not. Just use reasonable care and **take your time**. One suggestion is to place the basket stretcher on the trolley, wriggle or slide a carry sheet/bivy bag under the patient, have a team of lifters (four each side + head) raise the patient straight up using the carry sheet, slide the basket stretcher out and then lower the patient onto the trolley. Neither the trolley or the lifting team should move position during the process. Gerry Dublin Wicklow MRT. Basket Stretchers This popped up on the ECO list. Any comments from you chaps used to these bits of kit? Cheers Rod Eglin >Firstly seasons greetings to the list. > > I spent most of the early hours of xmas eve at the end of a farm track > waiting for the coastguard cliff rescue chaps to hand over an attempted > suicide who had fallen off a cliff while on his way to jump from one. After > a couple of uneventful hours they turned up in a land rover with the patient > sticking out the tail gate, all packaged up in a basket stretcher, & said > they would follow on to hospital later to retrieve their kit. Patient had > " fallen " at 5pm after leaving a note as to his intentions but had it had > taken until 2am to find him, so he was cold, dehydrated & c/o severe pain to > his mid thoracic spine. when we arrived at A & E the staff were lass than > pleased to discover the patient all wrapped up & secured in the basket & a > discussion took place as to the difficulties it gave them in assessing him. > This got me thinking, how, with a high index of suspicion, do the remote > guys put their patients in these things in the first place & how would they > recommend getting ! > > them out, while protecting a possibly unstable spine? > > > > Dougie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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