Re: Need help figuring it out

[Guest guest]

Yes, It is possible not to have swelling.

Yes, it can come on fast

And Yes, the meniscus could be torn. They can tear for virtually no reason.

People have torn them from getting off from the couch, according to my

Orthopedic Surgeon.

Krisstina King

[Guest guest]

My doctors always told me my knees weren't swollen, yet I was perplexed

because my knees just didn't look like other peoples' knees, and were

extremely painful. I couldn't " see " my kneecaps, the area just looked like

an overstuffed sausage. About a year ago after 4 surgeries and still

relatively little pain relief, I tried Ace wrapping my knees. It made all

the difference in the world! Shortly after, my PT told me about Tubigrip

compression tubes, and I have been wearing them ever since. I wear them

every waking hour. If I don't wear them for a couple hours in the morning,

my knees start to get inflammed and painful again. Now I can actually see

my kneecaps again! You might try Tubigrips. I had to look for awhile to

find a medical store that handles them so you can find the best size for

you. Now I just buy them off the internet. I pay about $60 for a 10 yard

roll. You can launder them, so a 10 yard roll lasts me at least 6 months,

and they are very comfortable. There is a woman with CP about your age who

works with my wife. I told her about Tubigrips. She has tried them, and

says they help her too. She wears them on a knee that has already been

operated on, and she is going to get the other knee operated on shortly. It

doesn't help the underlying problem, but my theory is that so many people

develop chronic synovitis from a long standing problem in their knees, then

even if the problem gets corrected, the inflammation from the long term

extraordinary pain doesn't.

Mike

MT

Need help figuring it out

> I'm a 39 yr old F, not very active at all, I don't play sports and

> haven't skiied in years, and I'm 20lb overweight. I never really had

> a problem with my knees at all until about 3-4 months ago when my R

> knee started hurting only when I knelt on it. The pain was very

> localized to one very specific spot at the top of my kneecap, and

> was extremely sharp. There was no swelling at all.

>

> Went to the doctor who said basically that I was getting older and

> there was nothing that he could do about it. He didn't even look at

> my knee, basically just said that when he saw no swelling. Last week

> the pain started getting worse and I felt it on stairs (especially

> down) and also when sitting, at 135 degree angles, and when standing

> up (which I have read all are symptoms of Chondromalacia). No

> swelling, though. This week, it now hurts basically all the time...

> feeling kind of numb when I don't move it at all, but painful when I

> try to stand or walk. Still no swelling.

>

> I guess my questions are, based upon your experiences:

> 1- Can it be Chondromalacia if there's no swelling? i.e. is swelling

> a symptom that always (or never) comes with Chondromalacia?

> 2- Does it make sense that the pain is progressing so fast now, with

> no known injury or anything like that?

> 3- Is there any other knee problem that is similar that any of you

> may have thought you might have had?

>

> Thank you in advance for any thoughts you might have. Was planning

> to head back to the doctor if nothing improved this week, but based

> upon comments about g.p.'s (and my own experience already), I'm kind

> of pessimistic.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Request an MRI!!

kking5112@... wrote: Yes, It is possible not to have swelling.

Yes, it can come on fast

And Yes, the meniscus could be torn. They can tear for virtually no reason.

People have torn them from getting off from the couch, according to my

Orthopedic Surgeon.

Krisstina King

[Guest guest]

Yep, I will! I just want to go in there totally armed and have a

complete understanding of what I may be up against. Thanks everyone

for your feedback.

Yes, It is possible not to have swelling.

> Yes, it can come on fast

> And Yes, the meniscus could be torn. They can tear for virtually

no reason.

> People have torn them from getting off from the couch, according

to my

> Orthopedic Surgeon.

>

>

> Krisstina King

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I agree with all of this, having had all of it happen to me.

Ann

Re: Need help figuring it out

Yes, It is possible not to have swelling.

Yes, it can come on fast

And Yes, the meniscus could be torn. They can tear for virtually no reason.

People have torn them from getting off from the couch, according to my

Orthopedic Surgeon.

Krisstina King

[Guest guest]

But keep in mind that MRI's don't always show everything. A 3-D CT scan might

show everything. Expensive. Hard to get doctors to agree to order them.

Ann

Re: Need help figuring it out

Request an MRI!!

kking5112@... wrote: Yes, It is possible not to have swelling.

Yes, it can come on fast

And Yes, the meniscus could be torn. They can tear for virtually no reason.

People have torn them from getting off from the couch, according to my

Orthopedic Surgeon.

Krisstina King

[Guest guest]

Sorry this is a little late. I had the exact same progression. I first noticed

that my right knee popped everytime I squatted to put away records at work.

This progressed pretty rapidly (w/in 2months) to pain while driving, sitting (I

do mostly data entry at work, so I sit a lot), then from only the right to the

left as well. I saw a GP who said it was patellofemoral pain syndrome or CP.

Then went to P.T. for about 4 months, but the pain never got better. In fact, I

lost 50 lbs in an attempt to alleviate the pain (and be generally healthier),

but it seemed like the more weight I lost, the more they hurt! Went to an

orthopedic surgeon who said that I was overweight, and I shouldn't be surprised

that my knees hurt. Finally went to a knee specialist at KU Med, who said that

my kneecaps were frozen out of place. Did bilateral lateral releases, and was

told I had definite CP. He said the surgery wouldn't fix CP, but because of the

extensive scar tissue it was necessary,!

but that strengthening and stretching was my best ally in the fight. He was

very up front and said this had to be a life-long commitment or I would be right

back where I started.

Hope it turns out to be something simpler for you!

Molly

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[Guest guest]

I think sitting-down jobs shorten the hams & IT band and the latter pulls the

patella laterally. After my LR (for ITBS) I was fine, could even run (not a

serious run, just a jog around several blocks) for 3 years until I took a job

where I had to sit at a desk all day. I parked my car about 3/4 mile from the

bldg so I could get exercise, but after about 6 months I began to get ITBS in

both knees. Cortisone took care of one of them (and I started using the bottom

half of an old office chair to put my legs on at work), but the other not so

much. It never got much better. Then, unbeknownst to me, I tore the lateral

meniscus in that knee, so I hobbled for a couple of years, getting no help from

doctors, then finally got an MRI, where they found CP (by this time I had been

crawling under desks for a couple of years to get computer serial numbers). Got

the meniscus fixed, the ITBS went away, but still had problems with the CP. I

think I said here earlier that scraping the CP didn't help, although now (2 yrs

later) I can walk farther w/o knee tape.

Meanwhile I've discovered that the vastus lateralis on that leg ® is a lot

tighter than it is on the other one. Could be scar tissue from the LR, because

I know he cut part of the VL during that operation. So now I've been doing quad

stretches (was afraid to bend my knee that much before), and for the bad leg, do

them straight on and then with my torso turned to the left, which stretches the

IT band & VL more. I also sometimes get really tight in the upper R lateral

thigh/tensor fascia lata/glutes but bending over somewhat to the left with my R

foot behind my L foot (on the floor) seems to do a good job of making those

tissues relax.

Ann

Re: Need help figuring it out

Sorry this is a little late. I had the exact same progression. I first

noticed that my right knee popped everytime I squatted to put away records at

work. This progressed pretty rapidly (w/in 2months) to pain while driving,

sitting (I do mostly data entry at work, so I sit a lot), then from only the

right to the left as well. I saw a GP who said it was patellofemoral pain

syndrome or CP. Then went to P.T. for about 4 months, but the pain never got

better. In fact, I lost 50 lbs in an attempt to alleviate the pain (and be

generally healthier), but it seemed like the more weight I lost, the more they

hurt! Went to an orthopedic surgeon who said that I was overweight, and I

shouldn't be surprised that my knees hurt. Finally went to a knee specialist at

KU Med, who said that my kneecaps were frozen out of place. Did bilateral

lateral releases, and was told I had definite CP. He said the surgery wouldn't

fix CP, but because of the extensive scar tissue it was necessary,!

but that strengthening and stretching was my best ally in the fight. He was

very up front and said this had to be a life-long commitment or I would be right

back where I started.

Hope it turns out to be something simpler for you!

Molly

Meet my kitties!

www.catster.com/?118813

More than 300,000 seals could be killed in Canada this year - most of

them babies. Tell Canada's Prime Minister to stop the hunt now!

http://go.care2.com/stophunt

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[Guest guest]

> I think sitting-down jobs shorten the hams & IT band and the latter pulls the

patella laterally. After my LR (for ITBS) I was fine, could even

> run (not a serious run, just a jog around several blocks) for 3 years until I

took a job where I had to sit at a desk all day.

I think you have all convinced my about the stretching! I'm not so worried about

strengthening because I already do most of the things in that excellent link as

part of ski training. I think I'm going to give yoga a try again, hoping it will

be easier now because my pain level is relatively low right now.

Another question. It seems that limiting the range of motion is considered a

good idea. I think that relates to stretching as well. My doctor said I should

use pain as my guide: dont push it past where it hurts but otherwise go ahead.

Do you think that's good advice?

[Guest guest]

It sounds like good advice to me. If it hurts, I don't see how it can be

helping you. My physical therapist told me not to do certain exercises if

they hurt, but to realize there is a difference between pain and things

being tight. She said you can work through the tightness, but if it hurts,

don't do it. On the other hand, I was always uncomfortable doing those wall

squats and I told her that, but she kept after me to try them. Once I got

out of there I stopped doing them completely! Also, I never had any " pain "

doing those leg presses, and yet there was a little feeling I can't quite

describe which is why I decided to stop them for a while and see what

happens. If I get to the point of feeling stronger I may try them again.

Good luck.

Re: Need help figuring it out

Another question. It seems that limiting the range of motion is considered a

good idea. I think that relates to stretching as well. My doctor said I

should use pain as my guide: dont push it past where it hurts but otherwise

go ahead. Do you think that's good advice?

[Guest guest]

I agree Ann, sitting jobs are the worst! I get up every 1/2 hour or so and just

walk a tiny bit, and walk more every other hour, as well as putting my leg on a

stool, but it's hard on my knees just the same! I'm starting nursing school in

August, and am hoping the " floor work " will be better for me. Here's hoping!

Molly

---- Begin Original Message ----

From: " Ann " <ruby2zdy@...>

Sent: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 12:02:44 -0800

<chondromalacia treatment >

Subject: Re: Need help figuring it out

<html><body>

<tt>

I think sitting-down jobs shorten the hams & amp; IT band and the latter pulls

the patella laterally. & nbsp; After my LR (for ITBS) I was fine, could even run

(not a serious run, just a jog around several blocks) for 3 years until I took a

job where I had to sit at a desk all day. & nbsp; I parked my car about 3/4 mile

from the bldg so I could get exercise, but after about 6 months I began to get

ITBS in both knees. & nbsp; Cortisone took care of one of them (and I started

using the bottom half of an old office chair to put my legs on at work), but the

other not so much. & nbsp; It never got much better. & nbsp; Then, unbeknownst to

me, I tore the lateral meniscus in that knee, so I hobbled for a couple of

years, getting no help from doctors, then finally got an MRI, where they found

CP (by this time I had been crawling under desks for a couple of years to get

computer serial numbers). & nbsp; Got the meniscus fixed, the ITBS went away, but

still had problems with the CP. & nbsp; I think !

I said he

re earlier that scraping the CP didn't help, although now (2 yrs later) I can

walk farther w/o knee tape. & nbsp; <BR>

<BR>

Meanwhile I've discovered that the vastus lateralis on that leg ® is a lot

tighter than it is on the other one. & nbsp; Could be scar tissue from the LR,

because I know he cut part of the VL during that operation. & nbsp; So now I've

been doing quad stretches (was afraid to bend my knee that much before), and for

the bad leg, do them straight on and then with my torso turned to the left,

which stretches the IT band & amp; VL more. & nbsp; I also sometimes get really

tight in the upper R lateral thigh/tensor fascia lata/glutes but bending over

somewhat to the left with my R foot behind my L foot (on the floor) seems to do

a good job of making those tissues relax.<BR>

<BR>

Ann<BR>

Meet my kitties!

www.catster.com/?118813

More than 300,000 seals could be killed in Canada this year - most of

them babies. Tell Canada's Prime Minister to stop the hunt now!

http://go.care2.com/stophunt

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