Re: I am extremely confused on my condition

[Guest guest]

>

> Hi, I am a 17 year old kick boxer. I subluxed my right knee cap last

> november. Directly following that I developed a problem in my right

> knee where it cracks ALL the time. Every time I bend it it pops. I

> went to the orthopedist and got an MR. He said I had rough surface

> area on my knee cap and that I should just bike and I will be fine. I

> went back in January telling him that the problem won't go away. He

> says I just need to stick with it and he doesn't want me to get surgey

> since I am so young. This is EXTREMELY depressing for me because I

> can no longer train as a kickboxer like I did before. The cracking

> and pain in my pain can be focused to the tip of my kneecap right

> where it connects to the tendon. Any help or advice would be greatly

> appreciated.

Subluxatoin means your kneecap is not aligned like it used to be. One

corner is probably dipping downward and rubbing a little. Ask your

doctor which way the kneecap is tilting. For instance, if it is

tilting toward the outside and the bottom corner is downward, you need

to pull the bottom corner upward on the diagonal toward the opposite

top corner.

I use what is called McConnell taping. I use what they call paper tape

and run it from the bottom outside to the top inside. Then I use

regular tape over the top starting at the bottom corner. I run the

tape over top of the kneecap was I push the kneecap over to the middle,

then I hold the kneecap in position while I finish taping. The top

tape holds the kneecap in place so that it is no longer rubbing. The

bottom paper tape keeps the skin from becoming irritated.

Let me know if you need further instructions. I've had patella

troubles for 15 years and finally found a remedy from the Hughston

Sports Medicine Clinic in Columbus, GA. I wear the tape 24/7 but I can

now walk two miles at a time. I am almost 60 and have suffered for a

very long time.

Good luck to you.

*JP*

>

[Guest guest]

You have a GREAT doctor if he is telling you to hold off on surgery.

Many of us on this listserve will tell you that our knees got worse, not

better after surgery! Try to fix this problem thru extensive

strengthening and stretching. It's unbelievable what you can do to

improve knee conditions thru the combination of both. I regret having

surgery and wish I'd had a doctor like yours who thought about me and

not his pocketbook.

I am extremely confused on my

condition

Hi, I am a 17 year old kick boxer. I subluxed my right knee cap last

november. Directly following that I developed a problem in my right

knee where it cracks ALL the time. Every time I bend it it pops. I

went to the orthopedist and got an MR. He said I had rough surface

area on my knee cap and that I should just bike and I will be fine. I

went back in January telling him that the problem won't go away. He

says I just need to stick with it and he doesn't want me to get surgey

since I am so young. This is EXTREMELY depressing for me because I

can no longer train as a kickboxer like I did before. The cracking

and pain in my pain can be focused to the tip of my kneecap right

where it connects to the tendon. Any help or advice would be greatly

appreciated.

[Guest guest]

Have you looked at the Pattstrap or simular products?

Worked well for me.

--- " Jeffers.Kim " <kim.jeffers@...> wrote:

> You have a GREAT doctor if he is telling you to hold

> off on surgery.

> Many of us on this listserve will tell you that our

> knees got worse, not

> better after surgery! Try to fix this problem thru

> extensive

> strengthening and stretching. It's unbelievable

> what you can do to

> improve knee conditions thru the combination of

> both. I regret having

> surgery and wish I'd had a doctor like yours who

> thought about me and

> not his pocketbook.

>

>

>

>

>

> I am extremely

> confused on my

> condition

>

>

>

> Hi, I am a 17 year old kick boxer. I subluxed my

> right knee cap last

> november. Directly following that I developed a

> problem in my right

> knee where it cracks ALL the time. Every time I

> bend it it pops. I

> went to the orthopedist and got an MR. He said I had

> rough surface

> area on my knee cap and that I should just bike and

> I will be fine. I

> went back in January telling him that the problem

> won't go away. He

> says I just need to stick with it and he doesn't

> want me to get surgey

> since I am so young. This is EXTREMELY depressing

> for me because I

> can no longer train as a kickboxer like I did

> before. The cracking

> and pain in my pain can be focused to the tip of my

> kneecap right

> where it connects to the tendon. Any help or advice

> would be greatly

> appreciated.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi, I am a 17 year old kick boxer. I subluxed my right knee cap last

november.

What exactly do you mean by " I subluxed my kneecap " ? Did you fall? Twist?

How, exactly?

Directly following that I developed a problem in my right

knee where it cracks ALL the time. Every time I bend it it pops.

I suspect that you may have stretched the tissues that hold your kneecap

medially (I'm assuming it subluxes laterally). There's a procedure called

medial reefing, where they go in and take a tuck in the medial retinaculum

(membrane that helps hold the kneecap toward the midline).

I

went to the orthopedist and got an MR. He said I had rough surface

area on my knee cap

Yeah, now you do, because your kneecap hasn't been riding in the trochlea (the

dip between the two round bone-heads on your femur), but rubbing on the femur.

and that I should just bike and I will be fine.

He's obviously never had his medial knee membranes over-stretched.

I

went back in January telling him that the problem won't go away. He

says I just need to stick with it and he doesn't want me to get surgey

since I am so young.

Stupid, stupid. Doctors! Being young, you're more likely to heal quickly and

scar less. Gahhhhh!

This is EXTREMELY depressing for me because I

can no longer train as a kickboxer like I did before. The cracking

and pain in my pain can be focused to the tip of my kneecap right

where it connects to the tendon. Any help or advice would be greatly

appreciated.

Get another OS. If s/he doesn't help, get another one. Don't stop till

you've found one who seems knowledgeable about what to do. Something needs to

be done, not just keep on irritating it by bicycling.

You might also look into procedures that shrink connective tissue (whatever

you stretched when you subluxed). I'm not familiar with any of them, but I'm

sure there are people on this list who are.

Ann

[Guest guest]

>

> You have a GREAT doctor if he is telling you to hold off on surgery.

> Many of us on this listserve will tell you that our knees got

worse, not

> better after surgery! Try to fix this problem thru extensive

> strengthening and stretching. It's unbelievable what you can do to

> improve knee conditions thru the combination of both. I regret

having

> surgery and wish I'd had a doctor like yours who thought about me

and

> not his pocketbook.

>

>

Hmm. You would've loved my last OS then Kim. He would not do

surgery either, even after I requested it. Problem was, he wasn't

giving me any other solutions. PT was a bust (twice), meds were

useless and I was a 37 year old with " arthritis " and told to stop

doing any activities that would cause knee pain for the rest of my

life.

Got a second opinion and he scheduled me for the scope, reasoning

that conservative measures had already been given ample chance and

had failed (1 year I would say is long enough). They did the surgery

on Feb. 2nd and found a major tear in my medial meniscus (this was

showing as a minor tear on the MRI). Needless to say, they had to

sew it up. I am in for a long recovery.

Time will tell which Doc did the right thing for me but I suspect I

already know the answer.

Yes, surgery will make your knee worse, for a while. Not everyone

gets better, it depends on the person, the doctor and the procedure.

Hopefully, the end result is worth it otherwise people would never do

it in the first place.

Cheers,

-JT

[Guest guest]

I've been shadowing this group for some time but finally joined. This thread is

exactly what I'm contemplating now: surgery vs wait and see.

My doctor fits some of the stereotypes but not others. Yes I got only the 10

minute discussion after he looked over my MRI and xrays. However much of the

advice seems to have been reasonable from what I'm reading here. His advice was

that while there are some surgical options, I should wait and try some other

things first. He did not recommend PT though, instead having me try to continue

an abreviated version of my active life and " using the pain to guide what works

and what is bad " . That was last July. I am improved generally. The problem

surfaced after biking started in the spring. Since the diagnosis, I have dropped

all running, most walking, and emphasized cross country skate skiing over

classical skiing. I tried yoga but so many of the postures put stress on the

knee that I gave it up pretty quickly. My problem is that the groove in the

femur is too flat resulting in excessive pressure on the kneecap that has caused

the degeneration you all know too well. It is not the

problem I have read that so many of you have here where the kneecap is forced

out of the normal track and that can be improved by strenghtening or by a brace

as far as I can tell. By the fall I was able to participate enough in my normal

cross country skiing activities to help coach a local high school ski team. I

did have to drop all of the racing during the season after an early december

race series caused a big setback. On a whim though I entered the 1/2 marathon

version of the American Birkiebeiener at the end of the season and came out OK.

I have a theory now. My theory says that the pain I have is because of loose

cartilege that's sliding around and getting between the upper and lower bones in

my knee. My theory says that if I get this loose stuff cleaned out (one of the

surgical options the doctor suggested) I may have less pain overall and that my

bad left knee would be more like my other knee which only hurts if I've been a

real bad boy. My theory also says that the reason I can't straighten out my left

knee is because of the loose cartilege in the wrong place. Finally, I have the

correlary that this surgery would only be a temporary fix but that

resurfacing/cartilege replacement techniques will improve much in the next 5-10

years and I may still be able to avoide a partial knee replacement.

For those of you that have had the surgery but still have the pain, can you

explain why? What nerve endings are firing, how would the surgery have helped

and why didn't it help? Or are these questions naive? Finally, the microfracture

technique was the other option given to me. From what I'm reading here, this

seems to be pretty dubious.

Thanks so much for this forum!

Philip - http://www.xcskiwinn.org/community/blogs/panmanphil/default.aspx

Re: I am extremely confused on my condition

>

> You have a GREAT doctor if he is telling you to hold off on surgery.

> Many of us on this listserve will tell you that our knees got

worse, not

> better after surgery! Try to fix this problem thru extensive

> strengthening and stretching. It's unbelievable what you can do to

> improve knee conditions thru the combination of both. I regret

having

> surgery and wish I'd had a doctor like yours who thought about me

and

> not his pocketbook.

>

>

Hmm. You would've loved my last OS then Kim. He would not do

surgery either, even after I requested it. Problem was, he wasn't

giving me any other solutions. PT was a bust (twice), meds were

useless and I was a 37 year old with " arthritis " and told to stop

doing any activities that would cause knee pain for the rest of my

life.

Got a second opinion and he scheduled me for the scope, reasoning

that conservative measures had already been given ample chance and

had failed (1 year I would say is long enough). They did the surgery

on Feb. 2nd and found a major tear in my medial meniscus (this was

showing as a minor tear on the MRI). Needless to say, they had to

sew it up. I am in for a long recovery.

Time will tell which Doc did the right thing for me but I suspect I

already know the answer.

Yes, surgery will make your knee worse, for a while. Not everyone

gets better, it depends on the person, the doctor and the procedure.

Hopefully, the end result is worth it otherwise people would never do

it in the first place.

Cheers,

-JT

[Guest guest]

I bet it was the kneeling. I think my CP was due to my being made to crawl

under desks for 2 years by my employer.

Ann

Re: I am extremely confused on my

condition

I have this Chrodro. thing in both knees. I am a 42

yr old otherwise healthy and in shape woman. My PT

people did the same thing with me. Sent me packing

with a bunch of exercises after no improvement. I am

in constant pain all the time. I don't even know how

I got this except from having done a lot of gardening

this last summer and always felt a knee crunching

sound when climbing stairs. I am going to see another

OS who works with a major league sports team (some of

the time) this Friday. This has been so discouraging

for me....now after 7 months no improvement. I have

not had an MRI and read that the OS really cannot

diagnose the problem as Chrodro. unless he/she has

looked at an MRI.

Has accupuncture helped anyone ? Thanks !!!

--- shannon webb <ss_webb2003@...> wrote:

> I think a lot of us went the surgery route because

> we were at the end of our rope. I definetely should

> be a last resort attempt. TRY EVERYTHING ELSE FIRST!

> My LR certainly did not help. I am currently

> expecting a child, due august 14th. My battle plan

> is, pain management and slow, slow, slow,

> strengthening. But I am in extreme pain all the

> time, and have been told there is nothing that can

> be done. My physical therapists sent me home with a

> list of excercises and told me that I was not

> progressing as I should so I should just continue to

> do these exercises at home. Wow, if that is not a

> kick in the confidence when even the PT sends you

> packing!!!!

>

> jtroc67 <jeff.trockman@...> wrote:

> >

> > You have a GREAT doctor if he is telling you to

> hold off on surgery.

> > Many of us on this listserve will tell you that

> our knees got

> worse, not

> > better after surgery! Try to fix this problem

> thru extensive

> > strengthening and stretching. It's unbelievable

> what you can do to

> > improve knee conditions thru the combination of

> both. I regret

> having

> > surgery and wish I'd had a doctor like yours who

> thought about me

> and

> > not his pocketbook.

> >

> >

>

> Hmm. You would've loved my last OS then Kim. He

> would not do

> surgery either, even after I requested it. Problem

> was, he wasn't

> giving me any other solutions. PT was a bust

> (twice), meds were

> useless and I was a 37 year old with " arthritis " and

> told to stop

> doing any activities that would cause knee pain for

> the rest of my

> life.

>

> Got a second opinion and he scheduled me for the

> scope, reasoning

> that conservative measures had already been given

> ample chance and

> had failed (1 year I would say is long enough).

> They did the surgery

> on Feb. 2nd and found a major tear in my medial

> meniscus (this was

> showing as a minor tear on the MRI). Needless to

> say, they had to

> sew it up. I am in for a long recovery.

>

> Time will tell which Doc did the right thing for me

> but I suspect I

> already know the answer.

>

> Yes, surgery will make your knee worse, for a while.

> Not everyone

> gets better, it depends on the person, the doctor

> and the procedure.

> Hopefully, the end result is worth it otherwise

> people would never do

> it in the first place.

>

> Cheers,

>

> -JT

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> ! GROUPS LINKS

>

>

> Visit your group " chondromalacia treatment " on

> the web.

>

>

[Guest guest]

I'm thinking maybe we should get together & petition the FDA to hurry up &

approve the Salucartilage plugs. For people with ONLY CP, these could be the

answer. It's been approved in Italy and Germany for 4 years & Canada for nearly

a year. I corresponded w/an Italian doctor who's toured here to talk about his

experiences with the plugs, and he said in the 33 operations he'd done at the

time I wrote him (a year ago) he'd only had one failure.

Ann

Re: I am extremely confused on my

condition

>

> You have a GREAT doctor if he is telling you to hold off on surgery.

> Many of us on this listserve will tell you that our knees got

worse, not

> better after surgery! Try to fix this problem thru extensive

> strengthening and stretching. It's unbelievable what you can do to

> improve knee conditions thru the combination of both. I regret

having

> surgery and wish I'd had a doctor like yours who thought about me

and

> not his pocketbook.

>

>

Hmm. You would've loved my last OS then Kim. He would not do

surgery either, even after I requested it. Problem was, he wasn't

giving me any other solutions. PT was a bust (twice), meds were

useless and I was a 37 year old with " arthritis " and told to stop

doing any activities that would cause knee pain for the rest of my

life.

Got a second opinion and he scheduled me for the scope, reasoning

that conservative measures had already been given ample chance and

had failed (1 year I would say is long enough). They did the surgery

on Feb. 2nd and found a major tear in my medial meniscus (this was

showing as a minor tear on the MRI). Needless to say, they had to

sew it up. I am in for a long recovery.

Time will tell which Doc did the right thing for me but I suspect I

already know the answer.

Yes, surgery will make your knee worse, for a while. Not everyone

gets better, it depends on the person, the doctor and the procedure.

Hopefully, the end result is worth it otherwise people would never do

it in the first place.

Cheers,

-JT

[Guest guest]

I've been trying to read up on this as well. It seems it's limited to cases

where you still have some cartilage left and I'm not sure I would qualify.

Still, if it is working elsewhere and can help some people, particularly if

diagnosed early, it seems like a good option. I wonder if a local doctor would

give advice to support the idea of going overseas to get it done?

Philip - http://www.xcskiwinn.org/community/blogs/panmanphil/default.aspx

Re: I am extremely confused on my condition

I'm thinking maybe we should get together & petition the FDA to hurry up &

approve the Salucartilage plugs. For people with ONLY CP, these could be the

answer. It's been approved in Italy and Germany for 4 years & Canada for nearly

a year. I corresponded w/an Italian doctor who's toured here to talk about his

experiences with the plugs, and he said in the 33 operations he'd done at the

time I wrote him (a year ago) he'd only had one failure.

Ann