Guest guest Posted April 4, 2001 Report Share Posted April 4, 2001 hahahaha! Great points! ttfn, Peggy bestyears3@... wrote: > > Coming out from " Lurkdum. " I just went to the PETA site, and I am puzzled. > According to them, I guess I am condemned to survive on Veggies only. Well, I > am wearing " pleather " shoes, eat my veggies and also enjoy chicken and steak. > I am getting ready to make soap, and yes, I will use honey, lard and > whatever, and after a bath will snuggle under my 30+ year-old down comforter. > I wonder if they posted no-no's to the animals to make sure they don't gobble > up whatever is lower on the food chain. Too bad they don't put that much > energy into helping children in need in this country. Greetings from > land, Carmen. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 4, 2001 Report Share Posted April 4, 2001 Hi Marcelle, I took a look at the PETA site and I was totally offended. As a beekeeper, I can assure you that they are operating under misinformation and also deliberately spreading that misinformation. All bees, with the exception of the Queen and drones, are virgin bees - these are the workers. The queen is the mother of the entire hive. Pollen traps are not cruel to bees, neither do they rip the bees' legs off. The bees walk over screens which knocks some of the pollen off of the pollen baskets on their legs. Not all of the pollen is taken away from the bees. If a pollen trap is put on a hive by a beekeeper, it is only left on for a certain amount of time. This insures that the hive will have plenty of food for overwintering. Many beekeepers sell the pollen to health-food type markets, but many keep the pollen in order to feed it back to the bees in late winter or early spring to facilitate brood rearing which insures a strong colony. In no way is a beekeeper, who has invested money, time, effort, and a has a genuine love of bees, going to do anything to damage any of his bees. Propolis is another product of the hive. There are special traps for collecting propolis which do not kill or maim bees in any way. For honey collection, beekeepers put " supers " on the hives during nectar flows. These supers are placed on top of the brood chambers with a queen excluder in between so that the queen will not enter into the supers and lay eggs. That is all surplus honey which in no way compromises the stores that the bees have put up for themselves in the brood chambers. All beekeepers at one time another may have to feed their bees with sugar syrup to prevent starvation for weak colonies, to assist a new hive in getting established, or there are certain medications which can be fed to bees using sugar syrup. Bees don't have any adverse effects from being fed sugar or sugar syrup. Contrary to what PETA states, bees don't care if sugar costs $.50 a pound or $2.50. It's all food to them. As for honeycomb, there are special frames the beekeeper can insert into the supers so that the bees will build comb and then use to store honey. This is what you get in the store when you purchase comb honey. No bees are killed in this operation. As for beeswax - this is obtained by the beekeeper when the honey supers are taken off the hives and the individual frames of honey are extracted. The beekeeper has an electric hot knife which he uses to slice down the front and back sides of the frame which cuts off the coverings, or cappings, over the honey. The frames are then inserted into an extractor and the honey is spun out of the combs. The frames are then set aside for use the following year. The cappings are then rinsed, melted and strained and used for candles, etc. No bees are killed in this process either. As for the honey itself, we all know that honey should not be given to babies, but honey is a safe product and has been used for centuries, even before sugar came along. I'm sure that there may be a small segment of individuals who may be allergic to honey, beeswax, or pollen so an ingredients list on a product might be in order. All in all, I don't consider parrafin an alternative to beeswax. Well, sorry to go on and on, but I just wanted to make a counterpoint to some of PETA's ignorant and untrue statements. Francine Marcelle Karustis wrote: > I was doing some research on ingredients and was a > little surprised at what the PETA page said about > beeswax. We use it all the time. Has anyone seen > this? Any comments on it??? > http://www.peta.com/liv/cc/ingred.html > Marcelle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 4, 2001 Report Share Posted April 4, 2001 Francine~ Thank you for your most excellent reply to the PETA site...we too are beekeepers, but novice, this will be our 2nd year. Have 6 colonies, next year ten (Lord willing)...I wholeheartily agree there is much time, money, effort and love involved with keeping bees... Blessings ~ Tammy Gladheart Acres Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 4, 2001 Report Share Posted April 4, 2001 Tammy, I am interested in purchasing beeswax in large blocks directly from the beekeepers. I have seen a few websites that offer the blocks of beeswax, but they are only sold in HUGE amounts. At this point I only need to buy about a 50 lb. block or less. Other sites only sell the beeswax spheres in a small quantity. (I feel like Goldilocks) Any ideas, do you offer beeswax for sale? blessed be! Peggy R & T Shields wrote: > > Francine~ > > Thank you for your most excellent reply to the PETA site...we too are > beekeepers, but novice, this will be our 2nd year. Have 6 colonies, next > year ten (Lord willing)...I wholeheartily agree there is much time, money, > effort and love involved with keeping bees... > > Blessings ~ > Tammy > Gladheart Acres > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 4, 2001 Report Share Posted April 4, 2001 What in the world do you use that much wax for? Wyn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 4, 2001 Report Share Posted April 4, 2001 Peggy, I don't know where you are located, but if Francine can't get you beeswax, you could check with the local bee-keepers in your area. I'm in Oregon and the local County Extension Office hosts a bee-keepers group. They meet monthly and some of them sell their wax (that's were I have gotten some). If that doesn't work, check at any local farmer's markets for bee-keepers selling honey. Marie Gale Chandler's Soaps All natural soaps and body care products made by hand on the Chandler Ranch in Southwest Oregon. www.chandlerssoaps.com Re: Beeswax Tammy, I am interested in purchasing beeswax in large blocks directly from the beekeepers. I have seen a few websites that offer the blocks of beeswax, but they are only sold in HUGE amounts. At this point I only need to buy about a 50 lb. block or less. Other sites only sell the beeswax spheres in a small quantity. (I feel like Goldilocks) Any ideas, do you offer beeswax for sale? blessed be! Peggy R & T Shields wrote: > > Francine~ > > Thank you for your most excellent reply to the PETA site...we too are > beekeepers, but novice, this will be our 2nd year. Have 6 colonies, next > year ten (Lord willing)...I wholeheartily agree there is much time, money, > effort and love involved with keeping bees... > > Blessings ~ > Tammy > Gladheart Acres > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 4, 2001 Report Share Posted April 4, 2001 Francine, Thank you for posting this. It is very clear and concise and really explains all that goes into bee-keeping. It is very obvious that you love and care for your bees - and that is something I have seen in every bee-keeper I have ever talked to. I don't know if you have a website, but if you do, you should put something like this on it. Marie Gale Chandler's Soaps All natural soaps and body care products made by hand on the Chandler Ranch in Southwest Oregon. www.chandlerssoaps.com Re: Beeswax Hi Marcelle, I took a look at the PETA site and I was totally offended. As a beekeeper, I can assure you that they are operating under misinformation and also deliberately spreading that misinformation. All bees, with the exception of the Queen and drones, are virgin bees - these are the workers. The queen is the mother of the entire hive. Pollen traps are not cruel to bees, neither do they rip the bees' legs off. The bees walk over screens which knocks some of the pollen off of the pollen baskets on their legs. Not all of the pollen is taken away from the bees. If a pollen trap is put on a hive by a beekeeper, it is only left on for a certain amount of time. This insures that the hive will have plenty of food for overwintering. Many beekeepers sell the pollen to health-food type markets, but many keep the pollen in order to feed it back to the bees in late winter or early spring to facilitate brood rearing which insures a strong colony. In no way is a beekeeper, who has invested money, time, effort, and a has a genuine love of bees, going to do anything to damage any of his bees. Propolis is another product of the hive. There are special traps for collecting propolis which do not kill or maim bees in any way. For honey collection, beekeepers put " supers " on the hives during nectar flows. These supers are placed on top of the brood chambers with a queen excluder in between so that the queen will not enter into the supers and lay eggs. That is all surplus honey which in no way compromises the stores that the bees have put up for themselves in the brood chambers. All beekeepers at one time another may have to feed their bees with sugar syrup to prevent starvation for weak colonies, to assist a new hive in getting established, or there are certain medications which can be fed to bees using sugar syrup. Bees don't have any adverse effects from being fed sugar or sugar syrup. Contrary to what PETA states, bees don't care if sugar costs $.50 a pound or $2.50. It's all food to them. As for honeycomb, there are special frames the beekeeper can insert into the supers so that the bees will build comb and then use to store honey. This is what you get in the store when you purchase comb honey. No bees are killed in this operation. As for beeswax - this is obtained by the beekeeper when the honey supers are taken off the hives and the individual frames of honey are extracted. The beekeeper has an electric hot knife which he uses to slice down the front and back sides of the frame which cuts off the coverings, or cappings, over the honey. The frames are then inserted into an extractor and the honey is spun out of the combs. The frames are then set aside for use the following year. The cappings are then rinsed, melted and strained and used for candles, etc. No bees are killed in this process either. As for the honey itself, we all know that honey should not be given to babies, but honey is a safe product and has been used for centuries, even before sugar came along. I'm sure that there may be a small segment of individuals who may be allergic to honey, beeswax, or pollen so an ingredients list on a product might be in order. All in all, I don't consider parrafin an alternative to beeswax. Well, sorry to go on and on, but I just wanted to make a counterpoint to some of PETA's ignorant and untrue statements. Francine Marcelle Karustis wrote: > I was doing some research on ingredients and was a > little surprised at what the PETA page said about > beeswax. We use it all the time. Has anyone seen > this? Any comments on it??? > http://www.peta.com/liv/cc/ingred.html > Marcelle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 4, 2001 Report Share Posted April 4, 2001 Dear Francine: I enjoyed your post about the way Bee's are treated. Thanks for writing it. I cannot stand extremists in any category. I wanted you to know that I did not think you went " on and on " .......you made very valid points. Thanks for sharing. Sincerely, Rhonda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 4, 2001 Report Share Posted April 4, 2001 Thank you, that's a great idea about the local County Extension Office. I am located in El Cajon, CA. Unfortunately we haven't had any beekeepers frequenting the farmer's markets. Maybe it's too early in the season. I am anxious to try your suggestion! many thanks, Peggy Marie Gale wrote: > > Peggy, > > I don't know where you are located, but if Francine can't get you beeswax, > you could check with the local bee-keepers in your area. > > I'm in Oregon and the local County Extension Office hosts a bee-keepers > group. They meet monthly and some of them sell their wax (that's were I > have gotten some). If that doesn't work, check at any local farmer's > markets for bee-keepers selling honey. > > Marie Gale > Chandler's Soaps > All natural soaps and body care products made by hand on the Chandler Ranch > in Southwest Oregon. > www.chandlerssoaps.com > > Re: Beeswax > > Tammy, > I am interested in purchasing beeswax in large blocks > directly from the beekeepers. I have seen a few websites > that offer the blocks of beeswax, but they are only sold > in HUGE amounts. At this point I only need to buy about > a 50 lb. block or less. Other sites only sell the beeswax > spheres in a small quantity. (I feel like Goldilocks) > Any ideas, do you offer beeswax for sale? > blessed be! > Peggy > > R & T Shields wrote: > > > > Francine~ > > > > Thank you for your most excellent reply to the PETA site...we too are > > beekeepers, but novice, this will be our 2nd year. Have 6 colonies, next > > year ten (Lord willing)...I wholeheartily agree there is much time, money, > > effort and love involved with keeping bees... > > > > Blessings ~ > > Tammy > > Gladheart Acres > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 5, 2001 Report Share Posted April 5, 2001 Peggy~ My suggestion would also be to contact the beekeepers assoc. And although they may not be at the Farmer's Market yet, they may have some of last year's wax which is still perfectly fine. Ask at the feed stores, health stores, etc. as to who the local beekeepers are. Some also have ads in the phone book. We don't have any to sell. Last year was a poor year for us with a very rainy summer, so I have already used what we had and am buying 7 lbs. Friday so I can keep making " goodies " ) LMK how this goes for you. Blessings ~ Tammy Gladheart Acres Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 5, 2001 Report Share Posted April 5, 2001 Francine, Wow ... that was one of the most interesting things I have read. Of course, beekeeping has become a new fascination for me. Thanks for sending it. I loved it. Diane P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 5, 2001 Report Share Posted April 5, 2001 Hi Francine, Thanks for all the information, it was really interesting. Kat > Hi Marcelle, > I took a look at the PETA site and I was totally offended. As a beekeeper, I > can assure you that they are operating under misinformation and also > deliberately spreading that misinformation > Francine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 5, 2001 Report Share Posted April 5, 2001 I think that Francine should write to PETA and straighten them out!!!! MK --- P8oitra4s@... wrote: > Francine, > > Wow ... that was one of the most interesting things > I have read. Of course, > beekeeping has become a new fascination for me. > Thanks for sending it. I > loved it. > > Diane P. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 5, 2001 Report Share Posted April 5, 2001 I certainly will let you know how my search progresses. I am very excited about getting my beeswax from a local beekeeper, I like to do business with people that can pick up/drop off product to avoid shipping. (it's sometimes faster, and patience isn't quite my strong point!) I cannot wait to try these great ideas!! thanks and many blessings to you! :)Peggy R & T Shields wrote: > > Peggy~ > > My suggestion would also be to contact the beekeepers assoc. And although > they may not be at the Farmer's Market yet, they may have some of last > year's wax which is still perfectly fine. Ask at the feed stores, health > stores, etc. as to who the local beekeepers are. Some also have ads in the > phone book. We don't have any to sell. Last year was a poor year for us with > a very rainy summer, so I have already used what we had and am buying 7 lbs. > Friday so I can keep making " goodies " ) LMK how this goes for you. > > Blessings ~ > Tammy > Gladheart Acres > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 5, 2001 Report Share Posted April 5, 2001 Of course I can't speak for others, but I like to make honey soap, milk and honey soap, candles, and a variety of miscellaneous items. It really is a wonderful wax! The aroma and the qualities of the wax are awesome! Peggy learn to laugh find humor in difficulties enjoy the little jokes of the day wlhuss@... wrote: > > What in the world do you use that much wax for? Wyn > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 7, 2001 Report Share Posted April 7, 2001 Thank you, that's a great idea about the local County Extension Office. I am located in El Cajon, CA. Unfortunately we haven't had any beekeepers frequenting the farmer's markets. Maybe it's too early in the season. I am anxious to try your suggestion! many thanks, Peggy Hey, Peggy! I'm in Santee. I know that there's a beekeeper in Spring Valley or El Cajon, maybe down on Jamacha -- they have a sign out in front of their house to sell their honey. Don't remember exactly where, but I saw the sign coming back from the Spring Valley swap meet a few times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 7, 2001 Report Share Posted April 7, 2001 WOW! I had no idea. I wonder if they would know of them at the county extension office? If you happen to pass them again, please let me know where to look! Thanks!! Peggy VickiIsRad@... wrote: > > Thank you, that's a great idea about the local County Extension Office. > I am located in El Cajon, CA. Unfortunately we haven't had any > beekeepers frequenting the farmer's markets. Maybe it's too early > in the season. > I am anxious to try your suggestion! > many thanks, > Peggy > > Hey, Peggy! > I'm in Santee. I know that there's a beekeeper in Spring Valley or El Cajon, > maybe down on Jamacha -- they have a sign out in front of their house to sell > their honey. Don't remember exactly where, but I saw the sign coming back > from the Spring Valley swap meet a few times. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 7, 2001 Report Share Posted April 7, 2001 That's very interesting! I was actually told that from a reputable aromatherapy candle producer here in San Diego. Here is what they have been publishing. " Did you know? Most candles are made with paraffin (gasoline byproduct). The paraffin and perfumes may induce headaches. " So where are we to research this and find out the " truth " ? I was very interested by your response, so maybe you will be able to provide a link or reference reading material to uncover the truth about paraffin. I personnaly would like to believe that it is " safe " to use as it is easily accessible! I trust beeswax because I have NEVER heard of anyone having adverse reactions to candles or cosmetic products with Bees- wax as an ingredient. Thanks for your input! Blessings Peggy Bruce Heath wrote: > > Sorry to go all the way back to the top of this thread, > but I'd like to set the record straight ...... > > Paraffin is NOT a byproduct of gasoline. > > Both paraffin and gasoline ARE products derived from > crude oil - a slight but subtle difference. Alos, there > the similarity ends ........ > > The chemistries of both products are ENTIRELY > different. > > Paraffin (at least the type most normally used > in cosmetics) is a super-refined product which contains > only saturated (ie non-aromatic) molecules. When it > burns, it will, for the most part, produce only CO2 and > water vapour.The likelihood of having an adverse > reaction to cosmetic grade petroleum wax is > increadibly low - the stuff is virtually chemically inert. > > Gasoline, OTOH, has a high percentage of aromatic > (ie benzene ring containing) molecules and unsaturated > molecules which, when burned incompletely in the > engine, produce a number of carcinogenic precursors. > > I wouldn't be too sure that there is any great > difference, good or bad, in the burning potential of > beeswax vs paraffin wax for the type of emissions > produced - highly refined beeswax is still really just > another long chain paraffin, only from a more > recent reaction. > > Regards, > > BAH > > Re: Beeswax > > > Not only is it a petroleum product, I researched parrafin > > for candlemaking and found that it is a byproduct of gasoline > > and people can have VERY adverse reactions to it from burning > > a candle or using it in beauty products! > > What a disturbing website! > > ttfn, > > Peggy > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 7, 2001 Report Share Posted April 7, 2001 Well just because something is easily accessiblw does not mean that it is *safe*...look at pesticides for example...Here's a quote I found this morning and an url too... " Naturally fragrant beeswax burns cleaner and longer than petroleum-based waxes. There's no smoking since there is no petroleum burning in the candles " http://candleandsoap.about.com/hobbies/candleandsoap/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm? site=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.flash.net%2F%257Elumina%2Fbeeswax.htm The url is to about.com's candle and soap page...Hope you enjoy. Blessings in Him~ Tammy Gladheart Acres Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 7, 2001 Report Share Posted April 7, 2001 yes, that is what I had read as well. another list member had information that found the paraffin to be " virtually chemically inert " . I was asking this member for more information on that because if it is true....I would like to use paraffin for certain things. of course beeswax will be more fragrant and cleaner burning. I am not certain it is longer burning. I have seen many candles outlast beeswax if they are made from a " high-quality " wax. There are also vegetable waxes now that are used for candle-making. It's all very interesting, but I am aware of what you mentioned. Thanks anyway! R & T Shields wrote: > > Well just because something is easily accessiblw does not mean that it is > *safe*...look at pesticides for example...Here's a quote I found this > morning and an url too... " Naturally fragrant beeswax burns cleaner and > longer than petroleum-based waxes. There's no smoking since there is no > petroleum burning in the candles " > http://candleandsoap.about.com/hobbies/candleandsoap/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm? > site=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.flash.net%2F%257Elumina%2Fbeeswax.htm > > The url is to about.com's candle and soap page...Hope you enjoy. > > Blessings in Him~ > Tammy > Gladheart Acres > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 7, 2001 Report Share Posted April 7, 2001 Sorry to go all the way back to the top of this thread, but I'd like to set the record straight ...... Paraffin is NOT a byproduct of gasoline. Both paraffin and gasoline ARE products derived from crude oil - a slight but subtle difference. Alos, there the similarity ends ........ The chemistries of both products are ENTIRELY different. Paraffin (at least the type most normally used in cosmetics) is a super-refined product which contains only saturated (ie non-aromatic) molecules. When it burns, it will, for the most part, produce only CO2 and water vapour.The likelihood of having an adverse reaction to cosmetic grade petroleum wax is increadibly low - the stuff is virtually chemically inert. Gasoline, OTOH, has a high percentage of aromatic (ie benzene ring containing) molecules and unsaturated molecules which, when burned incompletely in the engine, produce a number of carcinogenic precursors. I wouldn't be too sure that there is any great difference, good or bad, in the burning potential of beeswax vs paraffin wax for the type of emissions produced - highly refined beeswax is still really just another long chain paraffin, only from a more recent reaction. Regards, BAH Re: Beeswax > Not only is it a petroleum product, I researched parrafin > for candlemaking and found that it is a byproduct of gasoline > and people can have VERY adverse reactions to it from burning > a candle or using it in beauty products! > What a disturbing website! > ttfn, > Peggy > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 8, 2001 Report Share Posted April 8, 2001 hello i would like to make toners to go with my face creams. i was thinking of using herbal infuesion,alittle witch hazel,hydrosol or floral water and eo's. does anyone have a recipe along these lines they would be willing to share? i dont want the alcohol content to be too high which brings me to the next question. would i need a preservative and if so which one would be suitable for this thanks dolores Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 8, 2001 Report Share Posted April 8, 2001 We're beekeepers, and beeswax is wonderful to use in products. We are caretakers of our bees and do everything we can to insure that our bees are well take care of. We do not harm them and keep the colonies strong so they can survive the harsh winters in Ohio. Having one beehive is like eating one potato chip, you have to have more! It's as addictive as soapmaking, and just as fun. Joan -- " Sweet Soaps " from Honey Hill Farm Web Site: http://www.honeyhillfarm.com E-mail: sweetsoaps@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2001 Report Share Posted April 9, 2001 Hi, I have followed the great information offered on the list recently on beeswax. My BIL gave me a slab of beeswax and I sort of have a dilema. It needs to be cleaned( he had it stored in the closet) and I don't have a clue how to do this. Plus...the slab is large...probably 3 inches thick by 2 feet square. I have tried to cut into this...with no luck. Any advise on how I can make this block manageable and usuable? Thanks so much for all the " bee-autiful " advice! Laurie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2001 Report Share Posted April 10, 2001 In a message dated 4/10/01 3:18:43 AM Central Daylight Time, writes: > How in the world does one make a chunk or block of > First of all, I stick the entire piece in the freezer for about 24 hours. (My pieces weigh anywhere from 3 to 15# when I receive them from the beekeeper). Then remove it and put it in a big towel, edged folded in and then I grab the biggest hammer I have and whack away. It splinters easily when that cold. I put those pieces into old panty hose (the knee highs work great) and put it in old pans I've collected from second hand stores etc and melt it. If I'm doing a lot (20# or so in a day,)I melt it in an old pan and pour it through knee highs clothespinned to a stand for my applesauce maker (three legs that stand up high). Pour the liquid through the panty hose and then into ice cube trays. Chill in the freezer until they pop out and put them all in a 50# pail that held olive oil. They stay ready to use at a moment's notice. It takes some time, but for the price I pay for uncleaned beeswax, and the amount I use, makes it all worthwhile. Diane s Wheaton Soapworks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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