alcohol

[Guest guest]

At 04:50 PM 10/25/2005, you wrote:

>I don't use grape. Too fruity for me. Grain girl here. Don't use dehydrated

>alcohol -- you do need some water in there, and I believe some chemical is

>added to dehydrate the alcohol.

>

>Dear Anya,

>I have been traveling since last week and just got back and read your

>email from last week. You answered my question in regards to alcohol

>precisely....thank you!!! I have been reading back posts and learning so

>much as well.

>

>I grew up in sville Beach, NC on the east coast and haven't

>forgotten those dreadful hurricanes. Wilma's moving on I believe...or is

>she??? How much damage did she do?

>

>Thinking of you and hoping all is OK!

Hi Lesle:

Glad you found the alcohol bits helpful. Let me know how your experiments

turn out, which one you prefer.

Oh. Hurricanes. Hmm. Well, day 14 no power. We're now a little pocket of

six houses without, due to a blown transformer, and FPL policy is that

blown transformers serving less than 12 households is at the bottom of the

repair list. And so it goes. I posted a webpage the other day where you can

see pics. I'm now spending more time online, generator going full tilt,

answering some posts from Oct. 25 on, well, at least as many as I can --

they group has been chatty ;-)

Anya

http://.com

The premier site on the Web to discover the beauty of Natural Perfume

" The Age of the Foodie is passé. It is now the Age of the Scentie. "

[Guest guest]

Anyway, just to clear my doubt. What is the diffference between the

commercial alcohol and the natural alcohol? And I notice that some perfumes

have the ingredient Alcohol Denat listed, from what I know is non-drinkable

alcohol but does it comes from a natural source? Can a perfume be produced

without using alcohol? Like using some kind of base oil instead of alcohol?

You create a perfume with fragrant materials. Alcohol is one of many media

in which that perfume can be carried. If you want your perfume to be used

on the skin surface, you can use alcohol or you can use base oils such as

jojoba (really a wax) or sweet almond. You could also use a solid base,

such as beeswax, combined with a base oil. But there are lots of other ways

to put perfume in the air. The most obvious example is soap. Others

include shampoo, deodorant, body powder, incense, candles, etc. In each

case, the perfume you create is delivered in a different medium.

Denatured alcohol is ethanol (eithyl alcohol) to which has been added one or

more ingredients that render it undrinkable. If you want to sell

alcohol-based perfume in the US, the alcohol has to be denatured. The

denatured alcohol used for that purpose is called specially denatured

alcohol, or SDA. There are many, many SDA's...only a few are applicable to

perfumery. The most commonly used SDA for perfumery is SDA 39C. It comes

in 200 proof (100% ethanol) and 190 proof (95% ethanol).

You can buy SDA 39Cfrom many sources, but you are limited to 5 gallons a

year unless you have a licence from the US government. If you are not

intending to sell the alcoholic perfume that you make, you can use ethanol

that is undenatured. It can be bought from many of the same sources that

sell specially denatured alcohol. You can also use Everclear, a trade name

for high-proof ethanol with no scent or flavor added. Ethanol, denatured or

not, can be derived, by fermentation, from natural sources (grain, grapes,

potatoes to name a few) or it can be produced synthetically.

Hope this helps.

Steve Earl

Glen Custom Perfumery

[Guest guest]

At 01:59 PM 11/25/2005, you wrote:

>If you want the ultimate in natural alcohol then check out this link

>that someone here posted:

>http://www.alcsol.com/index.html

>Their alcohol is produced by fermentation of " organically " grown

>grain or grapes.

Hi

The nice folks from alcsol are members here, and i can attest to the fine

quality of their alcohol. They're forgetting to post an ad on the first

recently, so I have to remind them.

>Here is another link that was posted here:

>http://www.remet.com/alcohol_products.html

>This company provides " food grade " alcohol produced either by

>fermentation or by hydration of ethylene.

I am impressed by your knowledge of alcohols, you've shared a lot of good,

scientific info. Would you be willing to help us by revamping the " alcohol "

info in the Files section? There's a lot there, much of it cribbed from

websites, and not gone over by an experienced person. I can assist you, if

you'd like, in the formatting, or whatever. If we get a comprehensive,

correct File section on alcohol, we can just point folks there, which is a

big savings in time and energy, and then they can come here with more

focused questions.

>As for denatured alcohol it would depend on the supplier whether the

>ethyl alcohol component is " natural " or " synthetic " . Also, a

>denatured alcohol will contain other components such as isopropyl

>alcohol and Bitrex that are used to make it undrinkable and these

>will be synthetic.

A few months ago, someone told me that Bitrex was an " organic ester " and

not synthetic. Were they wrong? I was thinking of getting some for my

tinctures, in a cost-cutting move. Save the organic stuff from alcsol for

the blends, but save some $$ by tincturing in the SDA40B (the designation

for the Bitrex-denatured alcohol. We avoid DEP-dentatured alcohol, the 39C

you referred to in an earlier post, because of many health warnings against

it. Some may not agree with these warnings, and there are sites debunking

the dangers of DEP, but in the meantime, many of us, to avoid controversy,

use only undenatured.

BTW, one of the Files links provides the Codes and denaturants for alcohol.

Anya

http://.com

The premier site on the Web to discover the beauty of Natural Perfume

/

Join to study natural perfumery

" The Age of the Foodie is passé. It is now the Age of the Scentie. "

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Zita here....I don't have a lot of time but I skim read your post and thought

this might be of

some use to you? Copy and paste this link into your address bar. Its a source

for Primavera

Life Organic Alcohol 96%

http://www.holisticbeauty.net/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD & ProdID=296

Let me know its good i am not ready to use it yet.

Best Zita

[Guest guest]

> Zita here....I don't have a lot of time but I skim read your post

and thought this might be of

> some use to you? Copy and paste this link into your address bar.

Its a source for Primavera

> Life Organic Alcohol 96%

>

>

http://www.holisticbeauty.net/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD & ProdID=296

>

> Let me know its good i am not ready to use it yet.

>

> Best Zita

>

Hi Zita,

Thanks, I will have to check it out! A lot of the producers only sell

gallon + sizes.

[Guest guest]

>

>

> I read much about tinctures here as a way to extract scent. I'm curious,

> what kind of alcohol are you using, and where do you get it.

>

The problem, I think, when it comes to extracting fragrance (as opposed to

medicinal

substances) is with the water content of the alcohol and of the plant material

you are

using. Vodka is usually about 80 proof: that is 40% alcohol, 60% water, I

believe. So

vodka is in fact mostly water, and a poor solvent for essential oils.

Water and alcohol mix readily, so when you put fresh plant materials (if in fact

you are not

drying the petals first) into alcohol, the water diffuses into the vodka from

the petals,

lowering the alcohol content even more.

It is my understanding that most essential oils are not very soluble in a

solution that is

60% water, 40% alcohol, and the result is you never get a truly concentrated

fragrance.

Since the water from the petals further dilutes the alcohol, the problem

actually gets worse

the more you add.

So, what are some solutions?

1. Start with Everclear - 95% alcohol - thus you will be able to perform more

extractions

before the alcohol becomes so diluted that it is no longer an effective solvent

for essential

oils. Some states have this available at liquor stores. You can also purchase

high-proof

alcohols that are " specially denatured " for perfumery and thus far cheaper than

the heavily

taxed Everclear. It is a fact that over 80% of the price of a liter of

Everclear is tax!

2. Make your tinctures from water-free source materials. Some flowers may

retain

enough scent after drying to be worth tincturing, others less so. Or, select

your materials

to tincture carefully: work with woods, resins, and plants that are very

aromatic when dry.

The only other choice is to move to a solvent that does not mix with water, but

then we

are no longer talking about tinctures in the same sense, so I guess this is

irrelevant.

Hope this is of some use to you. )

[Guest guest]

> 1. Start with Everclear - 95% alcohol - thus you will be able to perform more

extractions

> before the alcohol becomes so diluted that it is no longer an effective

solvent for essential

> oils. Some states have this available at liquor stores. You can also

purchase high-proof

> alcohols that are " specially denatured " for perfumery and thus far cheaper

than the heavily

> taxed Everclear. It is a fact that over 80% of the price of a liter of

Everclear is tax!

Which reminds me: I keep hearing that this 'Everclear' stuff is good to use as

the alcohol part

of my recipe, but I've walked into several Montréal SAQs (that's our Liquor

Commissionin

these parts) looking for the stuff to no avail. Any Canucks on this list who

could tell me if it's

available up here?

Or should I just buy a bottle of Grey Goose vodka or something?

Thanks,

Jes

[Guest guest]

--- betasantalene <betasantalene@...> wrote:

>

>

>

> >

> >

> > I read much about tinctures here as a way to

> extract scent. I'm curious,

> > what kind of alcohol are you using, and where do

> you get it.

> >

If you are making tinctures for use in perfumery, you

should definitely use special perfumer's alcohol and

not anything you can buy in a liquor store. Check the

natural perfumery group files for good sources of

undenatured perfumer's alcohol. You could also use

denatured alcohol but it is not the best choice for

natural perfume.

>

>

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

>

> If you are making tinctures for use in perfumery, you

> should definitely use special perfumer's alcohol and

> not anything you can buy in a liquor store.

Hi - Good to know! Can you elaborate a bit, though?

What exactly is it that makes perfumers' alcohol different?

This is an area I haven't explored or researched.

If I were to examine Everclear and perfumers' alcohol of a comparable proof side

by side,

what difference would I notice?

I have found everclear to be great for my personal blends and extractions, but

sometimes

you can't recognize the problems with an inferior product until you have

something better

to compare it to!

Thanks in advance for any information you can offer, and I will look into

sourcing non-

denatured perfumers' alcohol for sure!

[Guest guest]

Thank you very much for the response to my question. Yes, the water part

really is a problem with scents. I've been checking out quite a few

links since, for denatured alcohol, and will check into the undenatured.

Maybe I'll try both and see how they differ. Can't be worse then getting

a 33 liter distiller after investing in a couple smaller glass stills

LOL.

There are just so many wonderful scents, and not all can be captured by

distilling.

Thanks again, SBH

[Guest guest]

--- betasantalene <betasantalene@...> wrote:

>

> >

> > If you are making tinctures for use in perfumery,

> you

> > should definitely use special perfumer's alcohol

> and

> > not anything you can buy in a liquor store.

>

> Hi - Good to know! Can you elaborate a bit, though?

>

>

> What exactly is it that makes perfumers' alcohol

> different?

>

> This is an area I haven't explored or researched.

>

> If I were to examine Everclear and perfumers'

> alcohol of a comparable proof side by side,

> what difference would I notice?

>

There is really great information on alcohol in this

group's files. There are lot's of different types of

alcohol that can be used for perfume-- organic

alcohol, grape alcohol, etc. There are some issues

regarding legality of the resale of different types of

alcohol which have been discussed at lenth in this

group fairly recently. But I have to correct myself

from my last post because I realized my only

experience with Everclear was 151 proof (75.5%) rather

than the 190 proof necesssary for perfumer's alcohol.

The 151 proof wasn't very useful. But I realized you

were talking about the higher proof. So if you have

access to 190 proof Everclear, it's probably good for

your purposes. I am no expert on alcohol so if you

want more info, look at the files-- they are very

informative. Also the legal issues if you are

planning to sell perfumes are something to look into

in your state.

By the way, your experiment sounds exciting! And

scary!

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

At 06:04 PM 8/1/2006, you wrote:

> > 1. Start with Everclear - 95% alcohol - thus you will be able to

> perform more extractions

> > before the alcohol becomes so diluted that it is no longer an effective

> solvent for essential

> > oils. Some states have this available at liquor stores. You can also

> purchase high-proof

> > alcohols that are " specially denatured " for perfumery and thus far

> cheaper than the heavily

> > taxed Everclear. It is a fact that over 80% of the price of a liter of

> Everclear is tax!

>

>Which reminds me: I keep hearing that this 'Everclear' stuff is good to

>use as the alcohol part

>of my recipe, but I've walked into several Montréal SAQs (that's our

>Liquor Commissionin

>these parts) looking for the stuff to no avail. Any Canucks on this list

>who could tell me if it's

>available up here?

>

>Or should I just buy a bottle of Grey Goose vodka or something?

Hi Jes

Canada has very restrictive laws regarding alcohol. You'll probably have to

use denatured. Ayala should chime in here, she has experience with the regs.

No, Grey Goose won't work.

Anya

http://artisannaturalperfumers.com The Artisan Natural Perfumers Guild

http://.com The premier site on Natural Perfume

/

Biggest, most dynamic natural perfumery chat group

[Guest guest]

>From: Anya <mccoy@...>

>Reply-

>

>Subject: Re: Re: Alcohol

>Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2006 13:29:55 -0400

>

>At 06:04 PM 8/1/2006, you wrote:

>

> > > 1. Start with Everclear - 95% alcohol - thus you will be able to

> > perform more extractions

> > > before the alcohol becomes so diluted that it is no longer an

>effective

> > solvent for essential

> > > oils. Some states have this available at liquor stores. You can also

> > purchase high-proof

> > > alcohols that are " specially denatured " for perfumery and thus far

> > cheaper than the heavily

> > > taxed Everclear. It is a fact that over 80% of the price of a liter

>of

> > Everclear is tax!

> >

> >Which reminds me: I keep hearing that this 'Everclear' stuff is good to

> >use as the alcohol part

> >of my recipe, but I've walked into several Montréal SAQs (that's our

> >Liquor Commissionin

> >these parts) looking for the stuff to no avail. Any Canucks on this list

> >who could tell me if it's

> >available up here?

> >

> >Or should I just buy a bottle of Grey Goose vodka or something?

>

>Hi Jes

>Canada has very restrictive laws regarding alcohol. You'll probably have to

>use denatured. Ayala should chime in here, she has experience with the

>regs.

>

>No, Grey Goose won't work.

>

>

>Anya

>http://artisannaturalperfumers.com The Artisan Natural Perfumers Guild

>http://.com The premier site on Natural Perfume

>/

>Biggest, most dynamic natural perfumery chat group

>

>

>

Anya,

Hello there. I am interested in making a herbal tinture for applying

directly to the skin. What type of alcohol should I use and in what

percentage - 50%? if so what should the other 50 percent be made up of.

thanks

Poh Yee

[Guest guest]

I am still quite the novice natural perfumer. Thus far, I have only

made perfumes using jojoba as my fragrance base and have no experience

using alcohol. I recently read that with alcohol you need to wait for

it to " burn off " before you can truly appreciate the perfume. Also,

alcohol dries the skin and hair and evaporates quickly.

Can a more experienced Natural Perfumer share some of their wisdom on

this subject? It would be greatly appreciated.

Best,

Keri

Hi Keri,

You have hit on two of the problems with alcohol, but neither of them is

very important. The amount of alcohol that you spray on your skin is so

small that the drying effect is really minimal. And, it is easy to wait

just a few seconds before smelling an alcohol-based perfume so that the

alcohol smell goes away. However, there are other problems with alcohol:

it needs to be strong (about 190 proof, or 95%) to be useful; strong alcohol

is not available in all states in the US, nor is it available in some other

countries; alcohol gets cloudy when used with some essential oils and

requires freezing and filtering to remove the cloudiness; and, alcohol is

flammable, requiring careful handling and storage.

Alcohol has some drawbacks, but it also has some real advantages over fixed

oils. Alcohol dissolves virtually all natural ingredients, whereas fixed

oils do not. Alcohol can be sprayed on, fixed oil cannot. Alcohol has a

mild odor, while many fixed oils have a more distinct odor (fractionated

coconut oil has nearly no odor). Alcohol-based perfumes do not run the risk

of becoming rancid.some fixed oils will go rancid over time. Alcohol is

colorless, some fixed oils have a color you may not want.

One additional note: alcohol and fixed oils cannot be mixed, so if you

tincture something in alcohol, you cannot use the tincture in a perfume

based on fixed oil. Conversely, if you macerate something in a fixed oil,

you cannot use the fragrant oil in an alcohol-based perfume.

The archives have a lot of information about alcohol and are a good source

of information in general.

Steve Earl

Glen Custom Perfumery

[Guest guest]

snipped for brevity

The amount of alcohol that you spray on

your skin is so small that the drying effect is really minimal.

And, it is easy to wait just a few seconds before smelling an

alcohol-based perfume so that the alcohol smell goes away...

> Alcohol has some drawbacks, but it also has some real advantages

over fixed oils. Alcohol dissolves virtually all natural

ingredients, whereas fixed oils do not. Alcohol can be sprayed on,

fixed oil cannot. Alcohol has a mild odor, while many fixed oils

have a more distinct odor (fractionated coconut oil has nearly no

odor). Alcohol-based perfumes do not run the risk of becoming

rancid.some fixed oils will go rancid over time. Alcohol is

colorless, some fixed oils have a color you may not want.

One additional note: alcohol and fixed oils cannot be mixed, so if

you tincture something in alcohol, you cannot use the tincture in a

perfume based on fixed oil. Conversely, if you macerate something

in a fixed oil, you cannot use the fragrant oil in an alcohol-based

perfume.

The archives have a lot of information about alcohol and are a good

source of information in general.

THANK YOU, STEVE!

That is very helpful.

Keri

PS - I'll also check out the archives as suggested.

[Guest guest]

So, how does one minimize the alcohol in both water kefir and milk kefir?

and Katrina Bird's Incredibly Lucky Daddy

[Guest guest]

,

From what I have read, the longer you brew it the more the grains use up the

sugar/lactose and what you have left is the alcohol. You can tell by the taste

so when you experiment with how long you brew it to suite your taste be aware of

this to minimize it.

Carol Onefreespirit

>

>

> So, how does one minimize the alcohol in both water kefir and milk kefir?

>

>

>

> and Katrina Bird's Incredibly Lucky Daddy

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Yes, that happens. Just drink water in between drinks. Too much alcohol is not

good for us.

________________________________

From: <laurablair620@...>

Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2012 5:05 PM

Subject: alcohol

 

Hey guys,

So I've noticed that every time i drink, i get an extremely racy heart 4-6 hours

AFTER i consume the drink(s). when i'm awake and doing things my heart rate is

normally anywhere from 80-120bpm. But when i get this racy heart after drinking,

my heart rate will literally go up to like 150bpm and lasts like an hour or 2. i

have no heart condition and no other reaction to alcohol. any ideas?

[Guest guest]

My heart doesn't race, but I get extremely weak...can't drive my chair weak.

>

> Hey guys,

>

> So I've noticed that every time i drink, i get an extremely racy heart 4-6

hours AFTER i consume the drink(s). when i'm awake and doing things my heart

rate is normally anywhere from 80-120bpm. But when i get this racy heart after

drinking, my heart rate will literally go up to like 150bpm and lasts like an

hour or 2. i have no heart condition and no other reaction to alcohol. any

ideas?

>

[Guest guest]

That happens with me, too. I have decided (for me) that it is due to

dehydration. I don't drink enough water/fluids anyway so when I drink alcohol it

depletes the little hydration I do have, thus causing my heart to " race " .

~a

From: <laurablair620@...>

Subject: alcohol

Date: Sunday, January 29, 2012, 7:05 PM

 

Hey guys,

So I've noticed that every time i drink, i get an extremely racy heart 4-6 hours

AFTER i consume the drink(s). when i'm awake and doing things my heart rate is

normally anywhere from 80-120bpm. But when i get this racy heart after drinking,

my heart rate will literally go up to like 150bpm and lasts like an hour or 2. i

have no heart condition and no other reaction to alcohol. any ideas?

[Guest guest]

so it's not anything I should stop drinking over? Lol

>

> From: <laurablair620@...>

> Subject: alcohol

>

> Date: Sunday, January 29, 2012, 7:05 PM

>

>

>

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>  

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>

>

>

>

> Hey guys,

>

>

>

> So I've noticed that every time i drink, i get an extremely racy heart 4-6

hours AFTER i consume the drink(s). when i'm awake and doing things my heart

rate is normally anywhere from 80-120bpm. But when i get this racy heart after

drinking, my heart rate will literally go up to like 150bpm and lasts like an

hour or 2. i have no heart condition and no other reaction to alcohol. any

ideas?

>

>

>

>

>

>

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[Guest guest]

I feel lightheaded if I drink too much and my muscules seem very relaxed, but I

don`t feel weak. Sometimes I only feel tired day after, but guess that`s called

hangover... It depends what I drink, though. I sometimes feel very hot and

heart is bit racy. Usually eating or drinking something sweet helps.

From:

Sent: Monday, January 30, 2012 1:53 AM

Subject: Re: alcohol

Aul-

yeah, but it will happen to me, even after one drink. And when it happens, it

happens several hours after I drink.

>

> Yes, that happens. Just drink water in between drinks. Too much alcohol is not

good for us.

>

>

>

> ________________________________

> From: <laurablair620@...>

> mailto:%40

> Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2012 5:05 PM

> Subject: alcohol

>

>

> Â

> Hey guys,

>

> So I've noticed that every time i drink, i get an extremely racy heart 4-6

hours AFTER i consume the drink(s). when i'm awake and doing things my heart

rate is normally anywhere from 80-120bpm. But when i get this racy heart after

drinking, my heart rate will literally go up to like 150bpm and lasts like an

hour or 2. i have no heart condition and no other reaction to alcohol. any

ideas?

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Same here. My heart starts racing when the alcohol is leaving my system hours

after I've gone to bed. I'm guessing with SMA our bodies are more susceptible

to dehydration. I will occasionally drink quite a bit and I drink a lot of

water before, during and after. I ALWAYS drink a bottle of water right before I

go to bed along with a multi-vitamin and a couple tylenol. If I follow the

water regimen my heart does not race and my hangover usually consists of just

feeling tired and out of it.

From: laurablair620@...

Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2012 00:05:02 +0000

Subject: alcohol

Hey guys,

So I've noticed that every time i drink, i get an extremely racy heart 4-6 hours

AFTER i consume the drink(s). when i'm awake and doing things my heart rate is

normally anywhere from 80-120bpm. But when i get this racy heart after drinking,

my heart rate will literally go up to like 150bpm and lasts like an hour or 2. i

have no heart condition and no other reaction to alcohol. any ideas?

[Guest guest]

I too have this happen if I drink more than normal which is rare (those days are

over). Most the time, I'm a one drink person so it doesn't bug me.

I think it may happen to people without SMA, alcohol is a poison when not kept

in moderation.

>

>

> Same here. My heart starts racing when the alcohol is leaving my system hours

after I've gone to bed. I'm guessing with SMA our bodies are more susceptible

to dehydration. I will occasionally drink quite a bit and I drink a lot of

water before, during and after. I ALWAYS drink a bottle of water right before I

go to bed along with a multi-vitamin and a couple tylenol. If I follow the

water regimen my heart does not race and my hangover usually consists of just

feeling tired and out of it.

>

>

>

>

>

>

> From: laurablair620@...

> Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2012 00:05:02 +0000

> Subject: alcohol

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Hey guys,

>

> So I've noticed that every time i drink, i get an extremely racy heart 4-6

hours AFTER i consume the drink(s). when i'm awake and doing things my heart

rate is normally anywhere from 80-120bpm. But when i get this racy heart after

drinking, my heart rate will literally go up to like 150bpm and lasts like an

hour or 2. i have no heart condition and no other reaction to alcohol. any

ideas?

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I don't think it's ever made me tired, but I do remember my heart racing after a

night of heavy drinking, like once I came home and laid down. It would take me a

while to fall asleep even. Never stopped me though :-) it doesn't do that

anymore though. But then I don't drink near as much as I used to.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 30, 2012, at 11:24 AM, Aul Pedajas <aulpedajas@...> wrote:

> Your heart doesn't race, because you are better hydrated. And yes, alcohol

makes SMA people extremely tired. Everybody needs to know their limits.

>

> ________________________________

> From: althegrrl <alanarutht@...>

>

> Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2012 5:51 PM

> Subject: Re: alcohol

>

>

>

> My heart doesn't race, but I get extremely weak...can't drive my chair weak.

>

>

> >

> > Hey guys,

> >

> > So I've noticed that every time i drink, i get an extremely racy heart 4-6

hours AFTER i consume the drink(s). when i'm awake and doing things my heart

rate is normally anywhere from 80-120bpm. But when i get this racy heart after

drinking, my heart rate will literally go up to like 150bpm and lasts like an

hour or 2. i have no heart condition and no other reaction to alcohol. any

ideas?

> >

>

>