Guest guest Posted June 7, 2011 Report Share Posted June 7, 2011 Whole grains have nearly the same glycemic index as refined grains. The difference is that whole grains offer more nutrients but they are not lower on glycemic index than processed grains. See the link below: http://www.columbussports.com/content/writers/dan_falkenberg/the-glycemic-index-\ whole-wheat-conundrum.shtml (excerpt below to above link) " To sum it all up, whole wheat bread and white bread have about the same glycemic index rating, so they'll spike your blood sugar just as fast, but whole wheat bread has a lot of other benefits to compensate for this. " AND take the quiz in the following link and then scroll to bottow and see answers: http://www.restoreunity.org/glycemic_index.htm And lastly, NO way can a gluten intolerant person eat a gluten grain just because it it is a whole grain. In fact, some studies actually show that refined grains may not be as bad for a gluten intolerant person as some of the gluten is removed. However, being gluten intolerant I experienced how being a total health food oriented person, choosing to eat only organic whole grains, that eating this way made me very very sick. Before I went on whole grains I was sick too but eating fully whole grains, and even not eating a lick of white sugar, I was still very sick. Another fact, diagnoised gluten intolerant people are about 3 to 5 percent. Over 95 percent of gluten intolerant people are not diagnoised. So gluten is a huge health problem to a huge number of people who do not know what is so negatively affecting their health. I should also mention that phytic acid is not destroyed in average cooking. One can soak whole grains for 8 or more hours, and pour off this soak water and then cook and that will reduce phytic acid load but not average cooking. And I would be the first to agree that the science of nutrition is in its infancy but facts are facts. When a glycemic index is measured for white flour verses wheat flour with nothing else added, they have the same amount of sugar/glycemic index. That is just a fact. Alice Whole grains are low glycemic not high (processed grains are the ones that are high glycemic) meaning that while whole grains have sugars in them, they also have lots of fiber which lowers their effect on the body's serum blood sugar levels. While one should avoid processed " nude " grains, whole grains are part of a healthy, and healing, diet. As for the phytic acids, they are reduced/eliminated when cooked or sprouted. Gluten is only " damaging " to those individuals who are gluten intolerant or celiac. And, interestingly, those who are " intolerant " can generally handle whole grains just fine--it is the processed grains that cause them the most trouble. Fermentation does reduce sugars and change the chemistry of foods. It also provides much needed probiotics. Keep in mind that the SCIENCE of nutrition is in it's infancy. There are opinions galore and most of them are not based on sound science. Anytime you hear or read that a specific food item is the Evil of All Evils and the Cause of All Disease -- run away fast because frankly, with the exception of processed pseudo foods, no specific food or food group is THE cause of ALL anything. Tina, MScNutrition Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 Vegetable oils are high Omega 6 which promotes inflammation whereas Omega 3's decrease inflammation and inflammation begins all disease processes.  Animal fats are a better choice--butter (cream in another form) lard, bacon grease, and if you REALLY want vegetable oils, go with olive, coconut or macadamia nut oils.  We were sold a bill of goods with the saturated fat is bad BS. We were designed to eat animal fats, not vegetable fats. Sorry if I sound a bit angry about this--I see my peers suffering all manner of chronic inflammation induced health problems and the special interests started the lies -- for profit of course. Digging into the misinformation is what I've been doing for the last two years.  Ellie--finally healthy again (age 66) with animal fats, no grains. Ellie's New Adventure: http://mindingthemiddleagedmiddle.com   How older, fatter folk can figure out what works for weight, health and aging!   E-books, articles, blog and much more... Rural adventure: http://beyondthesidewalk.com   Marketing Workshops, Books, blog/free newsletter, consulting for rural entrepreneurs From: danebreak <izspots@...> Subject: Re: reducing the fat Date: Tuesday, June 7, 2011, 4:23 PM  Suzanne, What would you suggest cooking with instead of vegetable oil? Dawn > > Dawn, > I don't believe the grains need cream to thrive, but humans do. Cream is a very healthy fat. Please don't cut it out of your diet because you are trying to lose weight or lower your cholesterol. Go ahead and cut out all vegetable oils and refined carbs (the real culprits), but PLEASE don't skim your cream. It is so good for you. > > -Suzanne > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 Thanks, Alice for setting the record straight!  And if you've never heard about the lectins in beans and grains  like wheat germ agglutinen (sp?) also known as WGA-- do a little research on what lectins do to humans--lots, and none of it good. Ellie's New Adventure: http://mindingthemiddleagedmiddle.com   How older, fatter folk can figure out what works for weight, health and aging!   E-books, articles, blog and much more... Rural adventure: http://beyondthesidewalk.com   Marketing Workshops, Books, blog/free newsletter, consulting for rural entrepreneurs From: Alice Connell <abconn@...> Subject: Re: Re: reducing the fat Date: Tuesday, June 7, 2011, 6:38 PM  Whole grains have nearly the same glycemic index as refined grains. The difference is that whole grains offer more nutrients but they are not lower on glycemic index than processed grains. See the link below: http://www.columbussports.com/content/writers/dan_falkenberg/the-glycemic-index-\ whole-wheat-conundrum.shtml (excerpt below to above link) " To sum it all up, whole wheat bread and white bread have about the same glycemic index rating, so they'll spike your blood sugar just as fast, but whole wheat bread has a lot of other benefits to compensate for this. " AND take the quiz in the following link and then scroll to bottow and see answers: http://www.restoreunity.org/glycemic_index.htm And lastly, NO way can a gluten intolerant person eat a gluten grain just because it it is a whole grain. In fact, some studies actually show that refined grains may not be as bad for a gluten intolerant person as some of the gluten is removed. However, being gluten intolerant I experienced how being a total health food oriented person, choosing to eat only organic whole grains, that eating this way made me very very sick. Before I went on whole grains I was sick too but eating fully whole grains, and even not eating a lick of white sugar, I was still very sick. Another fact, diagnoised gluten intolerant people are about 3 to 5 percent. Over 95 percent of gluten intolerant people are not diagnoised. So gluten is a huge health problem to a huge number of people who do not know what is so negatively affecting their health. I should also mention that phytic acid is not destroyed in average cooking. One can soak whole grains for 8 or more hours, and pour off this soak water and then cook and that will reduce phytic acid load but not average cooking. And I would be the first to agree that the science of nutrition is in its infancy but facts are facts. When a glycemic index is measured for white flour verses wheat flour with nothing else added, they have the same amount of sugar/glycemic index. That is just a fact. Alice Whole grains are low glycemic not high (processed grains are the ones that are high glycemic) meaning that while whole grains have sugars in them, they also have lots of fiber which lowers their effect on the body's serum blood sugar levels. While one should avoid processed " nude " grains, whole grains are part of a healthy, and healing, diet. As for the phytic acids, they are reduced/eliminated when cooked or sprouted. Gluten is only " damaging " to those individuals who are gluten intolerant or celiac. And, interestingly, those who are " intolerant " can generally handle whole grains just fine--it is the processed grains that cause them the most trouble. Fermentation does reduce sugars and change the chemistry of foods. It also provides much needed probiotics. Keep in mind that the SCIENCE of nutrition is in it's infancy. There are opinions galore and most of them are not based on sound science. Anytime you hear or read that a specific food item is the Evil of All Evils and the Cause of All Disease -- run away fast because frankly, with the exception of processed pseudo foods, no specific food or food group is THE cause of ALL anything. Tina, MScNutrition Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 And all this has what to do with Kefir? This is WAY off topic. Liam Serf On 6/7/11 6:38 PM, " Alice Connell " <abconn@...> wrote: > > > > > > Whole grains have nearly the same glycemic index as refined grains. The > difference is that whole grains offer more nutrients but they are not lower on > glycemic index than processed grains. See the link below: > > http://www.columbussports.com/content/writers/dan_falkenberg/the-glycemic-inde > x-whole-wheat-conundrum.shtml > > (excerpt below to above link) > > " To sum it all up, whole wheat bread and white bread have about the same > glycemic index rating, so they'll spike your blood sugar just as fast, but > whole wheat bread has a lot of other benefits to compensate for this. " > > AND take the quiz in the following link and then scroll to bottow and see > answers: > > http://www.restoreunity.org/glycemic_index.htm > > And lastly, NO way can a gluten intolerant person eat a gluten grain just > because it it is a whole grain. In fact, some studies actually show that > refined grains may not be as bad for a gluten intolerant person as some of the > gluten is removed. However, being gluten intolerant I experienced how being a > total health food oriented person, choosing to eat only organic whole grains, > that eating this way made me very very sick. Before I went on whole grains I > was sick too but eating fully whole grains, and even not eating a lick of > white sugar, I was still very sick. Another fact, diagnoised gluten > intolerant people are about 3 to 5 percent. Over 95 percent of gluten > intolerant people are not diagnoised. So gluten is a huge health problem to a > huge number of people who do not know what is so negatively affecting their > health. I should also mention that phytic acid is not destroyed in average > cooking. One can soak whole grains for 8 or more hours, and pour off this > soak water and then cook and that will reduce phytic acid load but not average > cooking. > > And I would be the first to agree that the science of nutrition is in its > infancy but facts are facts. When a glycemic index is measured for white > flour verses wheat flour with nothing else added, they have the same amount of > sugar/glycemic index. That is just a fact. > > Alice > > Whole grains are low glycemic not high (processed grains are the ones that are > high glycemic) meaning that while whole grains have sugars in them, they also > have lots of fiber which lowers their effect on the body's serum blood sugar > levels. While one should avoid processed " nude " grains, whole grains are part > of a healthy, and healing, diet. > > As for the phytic acids, they are reduced/eliminated when cooked or sprouted. > Gluten is only " damaging " to those individuals who are gluten intolerant or > celiac. And, interestingly, those who are " intolerant " can generally handle > whole grains just fine--it is the processed grains that cause them the most > trouble. > > Fermentation does reduce sugars and change the chemistry of foods. It > also provides much needed probiotics. > > Keep in mind that the SCIENCE of nutrition is in it's infancy. There are > opinions galore and most of them are not based on sound science. Anytime you > hear or read that a specific food item is the Evil of All Evils and the Cause > of All Disease -- run away fast because frankly, with the exception of > processed pseudo foods, no specific food or food group is THE cause of ALL > anything. > > Tina, MScNutrition > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 Liam, you are right. And I just deleted a whole slew of posts. Sorry to those who posted, but this thread should have shifted over to the off topic chat group a while ago. I just thought of it too late, that I could have posted them over there, but I have enough to do anyhow. Some of the attitudes weren't right either so I chose to use the delete key. Just an aside, I am so thrilled that the famous, Ellie Winslow, has joined our group that I did let her off topic posts through and not only because they were from her but because she happens to be right on the subject. Woops! The Bible says that everyone is right in his own eyes. So maybe I should have said that I agree with Ellie on the fat and gluten issue. So let's get back to kefir. BTW, I think it was posted a while ago that kefir grains get bigger (healthier) on full fat milk. Thanks, Marilyn, trying to stay on topic myself On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 10:04 AM, Liam Serf <liam@...> wrote: > And all this has what to do with Kefir? > > This is WAY off topic. > > Liam Serf > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 I know that you addressed that message to Suzanne, but I read it anyway and want to respond. The best choice for cooking is not at all. This obviously is not an option for many people, but I have tried to minimize it, and doing so has helped me a whole bunch. If you have to cook, I would use coconut oil. It has a very high damage point. It is unlikely that you would cook at such a high temperature that you could damage it. The damage point is some where in the high 400's. and Katrina Bird's Incredibly Lucky Daddy From: izspots@... Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2011 21:23:12 +0000 Subject: Re: reducing the fat Suzanne, What would you suggest cooking with instead of vegetable oil? Dawn > > Dawn, > I don't believe the grains need cream to thrive, but humans do. Cream is a very healthy fat. Please don't cut it out of your diet because you are trying to lose weight or lower your cholesterol. Go ahead and cut out all vegetable oils and refined carbs (the real culprits), but PLEASE don't skim your cream. It is so good for you. > > -Suzanne > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 See how off topic posts slip by me when the person isn't moderated? I loved 's light hearted posts so much that I took him off moderation way ahead of time. He was faithful to sign his name, which is very important to me so why not? Even this post puts a smile on my face. No cooking! No kidding! Love it. Okay guys, lets either move this oil converation over to the off topic chat group or drop it. Thanks, Marilyn, who just got scolded big time for moderating my list the way I do. Or was it because I didn't agree with the so-called facts? Hey, part of the reason I know as much as I do is because I've been wrong so often and been corrected. I don't mind being wrong, but please be nice to me as you show me the right way. On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 2:57 PM, ROGER BIRD <rogerbird1@...> wrote: > > I know that you addressed that message to Suzanne, but I read it anyway and > want to respond. > > The best choice for cooking is not at all. This obviously is not an option > for many people, but I have tried to minimize it, and doing so has helped me > a whole bunch. > > If you have to cook, I would use coconut oil. It has a very high damage > point. It is unlikely that you would cook at such a high temperature that > you could damage it. The damage point is some where in the high 400's. > > > > and Katrina Bird's Incredibly Lucky Daddy > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 Liam, I would respectfully dissent that this is definitely NOT " off topic " for kefir, although perhaps Marilyn will have a difference as to whether this should go " off topic " due to its somewhat advanced discussion & I know she likes to keep this forum so newbies can learn the basics. With that said, I will venture that perhaps my opinion as to why this is not " off topic " and possibly relevant to some newbies is that such things as the glycemic index and gluten conversions are sometimes the reasons persons gravitate to the use of kefir in the first place, and learning that it may or may not have an impact. Without getting into the specifics, kefir has the ability to change the characteristics and the way the body can use the foods fermented with it, as well as sugars, etc. from the milk converting them to a different form of sugars/glycemics so as to be most tolerable for those who are lactose intolerant. Same with the gluten sensitivity .. the kefir makes the grains change the gluten so celiac and gluten intolerance can tolerate it. Thus kefir is definitely " relevant " to these subjects. It also has impact on how the body responds to various allergans by actually generating several immune factors with alphabet letters, names & numbers I do not recall but I do recall that the studies showed that kefir was able to effectively enhance many functions of immune system. I believe Hepatitis C and possibly, if I recall correctly, even helping vs. HIV by immune system supplementing. There are many studies being done of kefir in these regards, most proving kefir very much of benefit and what I personally call its miracle ways. But I have become somewhat of a kefirvangelist from our experience, and several others I've started on it, and the experiences of others corresponding through Marilyn's forum and DOM's as well as many new-comers to the scene. I would question Alice though as to her conclusion that whole grains vs. refined grains and the glycemic and/or gluten factors. She seems to have arrived at good manageability for herself, her whole-body needs and that is what this quest is about. But my question has to do with whether she has used the kefir to ferment and extract and convert the grains' contents. I may keep whole grains but I grind them either with some kefir milk and allow them to be fermented at least another 24 hours OR I get/or grind some to the partially ground stage so that when I ferment them in the kefir they will have more internal surfaces " open " to the whole fermentation process much quicker. E.G. flax seeds ... when they are placed ground into the " 2nd ferment " , (after the kefir milk is taken away from the grains from the first 24 hour ferment/culture), the ferment with the ground flax seeds will extract and make the whole drink or product much more muciligenous than if whole flax seeds are used, simply because the kefir can extract and convert the " inners " better. There is the Budwig protocol where the healing diet even for many cancers is based on cottage cheese and flaxseed diet. I tried finding my own copy of it but couldn't and just found this short summary about her on Amazon which touches on the use of cottage cheese and flaxseed. I am using this as a " relevancy " to " kefir " because all studies show that kefir is much richer in all the critical healing microflora than any of the other cultured milks, and per the flaxseed, I cannot see how the use of kefir to prepare it wouldn't be even better than Dr. Budwig's original diet(s). *(Note aside here .*. as is the way with " vital " health information we need to make intelligent decisions, I see that*many of the former links to her work is no longer available*. I sadly acknowledge that some bureaucracies within our land of the free, and 1st amendment rights, IS arbitrarily limiting our rights of access to this knowledge. As a lawyer, I do hate to admit this. ) Anyway, here is what is said of her & the diet: */Dr. Johanna Budwig developed and promoted from 1952 the Budwig Protocol/Budwig Diet, as an anti-cancer diet. The diet is rich in flaxseed oil, mixed with cottage cheese and milk, and meals high in fruits, vegetables, and fiber. The diet also avoided sugar, animal fats, commercial salad oils, meats, butter, and especially margarine, which is rich is hydrogenated fats. Dr. Budwig reported that within 3 months, some patients on this diet had smaller tumors, some had no tumors left, and all felt better./* */This biography was provided by the author or their representative./* So .. word to the wise here ... place all these bits of knowledge as to what kefir can do to possibly alter your basic foods to make them more digestible into your memory banks, because it MAY mean survival for you and your loved ones. Best to all ... Joyce Simmerman On 6/8/2011 9:04 AM, Liam Serf wrote: > > *And all this has what to do with Kefir? > * > This is WAY off topic. > > Liam Serf > > On 6/7/11 6:38 PM, " Alice Connell " <abconn@... > <mailto:abconn%40wildblue.net>> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Whole grains have nearly the same glycemic index as refined grains. The > > difference is that whole grains offer more nutrients but they are > not lower on > > glycemic index than processed grains. See the link below: > > > > > http://www.columbussports.com/content/writers/dan_falkenberg/the-glycemic-inde > > x-whole-wheat-conundrum.shtml > > > > (excerpt below to above link) > > > > " To sum it all up, whole wheat bread and white bread have about the same > > glycemic index rating, so they'll spike your blood sugar just as > fast, but > > whole wheat bread has a lot of other benefits to compensate for this. " > > > > AND take the quiz in the following link and then scroll to bottow > and see > > answers: > > > > http://www.restoreunity.org/glycemic_index.htm > > > > And lastly, NO way can a gluten intolerant person eat a gluten grain > just > > because it it is a whole grain. In fact, some studies actually show that > > refined grains may not be as bad for a gluten intolerant person as > some of the > > gluten is removed. However, being gluten intolerant I experienced > how being a > > total health food oriented person, choosing to eat only organic > whole grains, > > that eating this way made me very very sick. Before I went on whole > grains I > > was sick too but eating fully whole grains, and even not eating a > lick of > > white sugar, I was still very sick. Another fact, diagnoised gluten > > intolerant people are about 3 to 5 percent. Over 95 percent of gluten > > intolerant people are not diagnoised. So gluten is a huge health > problem to a > > huge number of people who do not know what is so negatively > affecting their > > health. I should also mention that phytic acid is not destroyed in > average > > cooking. One can soak whole grains for 8 or more hours, and pour off > this > > soak water and then cook and that will reduce phytic acid load but > not average > > cooking. > > > > And I would be the first to agree that the science of nutrition is > in its > > infancy but facts are facts. When a glycemic index is measured for white > > flour verses wheat flour with nothing else added, they have the same > amount of > > sugar/glycemic index. That is just a fact. > > > > Alice > > > > Whole grains are low glycemic not high (processed grains are the > ones that are > > high glycemic) meaning that while whole grains have sugars in them, > they also > > have lots of fiber which lowers their effect on the body's serum > blood sugar > > levels. While one should avoid processed " nude " grains, whole grains > are part > > of a healthy, and healing, diet. > > > > As for the phytic acids, they are reduced/eliminated when cooked or > sprouted. > > Gluten is only " damaging " to those individuals who are gluten > intolerant or > > celiac. And, interestingly, those who are " intolerant " can generally > handle > > whole grains just fine--it is the processed grains that cause them > the most > > trouble. > > > > Fermentation does reduce sugars and change the chemistry of foods. It > > also provides much needed probiotics. > > > > Keep in mind that the SCIENCE of nutrition is in it's infancy. There are > > opinions galore and most of them are not based on sound science. > Anytime you > > hear or read that a specific food item is the Evil of All Evils and > the Cause > > of All Disease -- run away fast because frankly, with the exception of > > processed pseudo foods, no specific food or food group is THE cause > of ALL > > anything. > > > > Tina, MScNutrition > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 I guess I feel that if I was told by Marilyn when I signed up that topics in the kefir group should stay on keir, I should respect what her guidelines are. She did create a off topic group for conversations like the one in question. Also if it was on topic why was keir not mentioned. I am not saying the discussion was not important, just done in the wrong place. Here is another item that I bet will raise some flack. What ever happened to to the point posts that do not ramble. Liam Serf (don¹t shoot the messenger) If it is not off topic then why was there no mention of Kefir. On 6/8/11 2:21 PM, " Joyce M. Simmerman " <nativelegal@...> wrote: > > > > > > Liam, I would respectfully dissent that this is definitely NOT " off > topic " for kefir, although perhaps Marilyn will have a difference as to > whether this should go " off topic " due to its somewhat advanced > discussion & I know she likes to keep this forum so newbies can learn > the basics. > > With that said, I will venture that perhaps my opinion as to why this is > not " off topic " and possibly relevant to some newbies is that such > things as the glycemic index and gluten conversions are sometimes the > reasons persons gravitate to the use of kefir in the first place, and > learning that it may or may not have an impact. > > Without getting into the specifics, kefir has the ability to change the > characteristics and the way the body can use the foods fermented with > it, as well as sugars, etc. from the milk converting them to a different > form of sugars/glycemics so as to be most tolerable for those who are > lactose intolerant. Same with the gluten sensitivity .. the kefir makes > the grains change the gluten so celiac and gluten intolerance can > tolerate it. Thus kefir is definitely " relevant " to these subjects. It > also has impact on how the body responds to various allergans by > actually generating several immune factors with alphabet letters, names > & numbers I do not recall but I do recall that the studies showed that > kefir was able to effectively enhance many functions of immune system. > I believe Hepatitis C and possibly, if I recall correctly, even helping > vs. HIV by immune system supplementing. > > There are many studies being done of kefir in these regards, most > proving kefir very much of benefit and what I personally call its > miracle ways. But I have become somewhat of a kefirvangelist from our > experience, and several others I've started on it, and the experiences > of others corresponding through Marilyn's forum and DOM's as well as > many new-comers to the scene. > > I would question Alice though as to her conclusion that whole grains vs. > refined grains and the glycemic and/or gluten factors. She seems to > have arrived at good manageability for herself, her whole-body needs and > that is what this quest is about. But my question has to do with > whether she has used the kefir to ferment and extract and convert the > grains' contents. I may keep whole grains but I grind them either with > some kefir milk and allow them to be fermented at least another 24 hours > OR I get/or grind some to the partially ground stage so that when I > ferment them in the kefir they will have more internal surfaces " open " > to the whole fermentation process much quicker. > > E.G. flax seeds ... when they are placed ground into the " 2nd ferment " , > (after the kefir milk is taken away from the grains from the first 24 > hour ferment/culture), the ferment with the ground flax seeds will > extract and make the whole drink or product much more muciligenous than > if whole flax seeds are used, simply because the kefir can extract and > convert the " inners " better. > > There is the Budwig protocol where the healing diet even for many > cancers is based on cottage cheese and flaxseed diet. I tried finding > my own copy of it but couldn't and just found this short summary about > her on Amazon which touches on the use of cottage cheese and flaxseed. > I am using this as a " relevancy " to " kefir " because all studies show > that kefir is much richer in all the critical healing microflora than > any of the other cultured milks, and per the flaxseed, I cannot see how > the use of kefir to prepare it wouldn't be even better than Dr. Budwig's > original diet(s). *(Note aside here .*. as is the way with " vital " > health information we need to make intelligent decisions, I see > that*many of the former links to her work is no longer available*. I > sadly acknowledge that some bureaucracies within our land of the free, > and 1st amendment rights, IS arbitrarily limiting our rights of access > to this knowledge. As a lawyer, I do hate to admit this. ) Anyway, > here is what is said of her & the diet: > > */Dr. Johanna Budwig developed and promoted from 1952 the Budwig > Protocol/Budwig Diet, as an anti-cancer diet. The diet is rich > in flaxseed oil, mixed with cottage cheese and milk, and meals > high in fruits, vegetables, and fiber. The diet also avoided > sugar, animal fats, commercial salad oils, meats, butter, and > especially margarine, which is rich is hydrogenated fats. Dr. > Budwig reported that within 3 months, some patients on this diet > had smaller tumors, some had no tumors left, and all felt better./* > > */This biography was provided by the author or their > representative./* > > So .. word to the wise here ... place all these bits of knowledge as to > what kefir can do to possibly alter your basic foods to make them more > digestible into your memory banks, because it MAY mean survival for you > and your loved ones. > Best to all ... Joyce Simmerman > > On 6/8/2011 9:04 AM, Liam Serf wrote: >> > >> > *And all this has what to do with Kefir? >> > * >> > This is WAY off topic. >> > >> > Liam Serf >> > >> > On 6/7/11 6:38 PM, " Alice Connell " <abconn@... >> <mailto:abconn%40wildblue.net> >> > <mailto:abconn%40wildblue.net>> wrote: >> > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > Whole grains have nearly the same glycemic index as refined grains. The >>> > > difference is that whole grains offer more nutrients but they are >> > not lower on >>> > > glycemic index than processed grains. See the link below: >>> > > >>> > > >> > >> http://www.columbussports.com/content/writers/dan_falkenberg/the-glycemic-inde >>> > > x-whole-wheat-conundrum.shtml >>> > > >>> > > (excerpt below to above link) >>> > > >>> > > " To sum it all up, whole wheat bread and white bread have about the same >>> > > glycemic index rating, so they'll spike your blood sugar just as >> > fast, but >>> > > whole wheat bread has a lot of other benefits to compensate for this. " >>> > > >>> > > AND take the quiz in the following link and then scroll to bottow >> > and see >>> > > answers: >>> > > >>> > > http://www.restoreunity.org/glycemic_index.htm >>> > > >>> > > And lastly, NO way can a gluten intolerant person eat a gluten grain >> > just >>> > > because it it is a whole grain. In fact, some studies actually show that >>> > > refined grains may not be as bad for a gluten intolerant person as >> > some of the >>> > > gluten is removed. However, being gluten intolerant I experienced >> > how being a >>> > > total health food oriented person, choosing to eat only organic >> > whole grains, >>> > > that eating this way made me very very sick. Before I went on whole >> > grains I >>> > > was sick too but eating fully whole grains, and even not eating a >> > lick of >>> > > white sugar, I was still very sick. Another fact, diagnoised gluten >>> > > intolerant people are about 3 to 5 percent. Over 95 percent of gluten >>> > > intolerant people are not diagnoised. So gluten is a huge health >> > problem to a >>> > > huge number of people who do not know what is so negatively >> > affecting their >>> > > health. I should also mention that phytic acid is not destroyed in >> > average >>> > > cooking. One can soak whole grains for 8 or more hours, and pour off >> > this >>> > > soak water and then cook and that will reduce phytic acid load but >> > not average >>> > > cooking. >>> > > >>> > > And I would be the first to agree that the science of nutrition is >> > in its >>> > > infancy but facts are facts. When a glycemic index is measured for white >>> > > flour verses wheat flour with nothing else added, they have the same >> > amount of >>> > > sugar/glycemic index. That is just a fact. >>> > > >>> > > Alice >>> > > >>> > > Whole grains are low glycemic not high (processed grains are the >> > ones that are >>> > > high glycemic) meaning that while whole grains have sugars in them, >> > they also >>> > > have lots of fiber which lowers their effect on the body's serum >> > blood sugar >>> > > levels. While one should avoid processed " nude " grains, whole grains >> > are part >>> > > of a healthy, and healing, diet. >>> > > >>> > > As for the phytic acids, they are reduced/eliminated when cooked or >> > sprouted. >>> > > Gluten is only " damaging " to those individuals who are gluten >> > intolerant or >>> > > celiac. And, interestingly, those who are " intolerant " can generally >> > handle >>> > > whole grains just fine--it is the processed grains that cause them >> > the most >>> > > trouble. >>> > > >>> > > Fermentation does reduce sugars and change the chemistry of foods. It >>> > > also provides much needed probiotics. >>> > > >>> > > Keep in mind that the SCIENCE of nutrition is in it's infancy. There are >>> > > opinions galore and most of them are not based on sound science. >> > Anytime you >>> > > hear or read that a specific food item is the Evil of All Evils and >> > the Cause >>> > > of All Disease -- run away fast because frankly, with the exception of >>> > > processed pseudo foods, no specific food or food group is THE cause >> > of ALL >>> > > anything. >>> > > >>> > > Tina, MScNutrition >>> > > >>> > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 Thanks SOOOOOOOOOO VERY much Joyce! GREAT explaination! Patti From: Joyce M. Simmerman <nativelegal@...> Sent: Wednesday, June 8, 2011 2:21 PM Subject: Re: Re: reducing the fat  Liam, I would respectfully dissent that this is definitely NOT " off topic " for kefir, although perhaps Marilyn will have a difference as to whether this should go " off topic " due to its somewhat advanced discussion & I know she likes to keep this forum so newbies can learn the basics. With that said, I will venture that perhaps my opinion as to why this is not " off topic " and possibly relevant to some newbies is that such things as the glycemic index and gluten conversions are sometimes the reasons persons gravitate to the use of kefir in the first place, and learning that it may or may not have an impact. Without getting into the specifics, kefir has the ability to change the characteristics and the way the body can use the foods fermented with it, as well as sugars, etc. from the milk converting them to a different form of sugars/glycemics so as to be most tolerable for those who are lactose intolerant. Same with the gluten sensitivity .. the kefir makes the grains change the gluten so celiac and gluten intolerance can tolerate it. Thus kefir is definitely " relevant " to these subjects. It also has impact on how the body responds to various allergans by actually generating several immune factors with alphabet letters, names & numbers I do not recall but I do recall that the studies showed that kefir was able to effectively enhance many functions of immune system. I believe Hepatitis C and possibly, if I recall correctly, even helping vs. HIV by immune system supplementing. There are many studies being done of kefir in these regards, most proving kefir very much of benefit and what I personally call its miracle ways. But I have become somewhat of a kefirvangelist from our experience, and several others I've started on it, and the experiences of others corresponding through Marilyn's forum and DOM's as well as many new-comers to the scene. I would question Alice though as to her conclusion that whole grains vs. refined grains and the glycemic and/or gluten factors. She seems to have arrived at good manageability for herself, her whole-body needs and that is what this quest is about. But my question has to do with whether she has used the kefir to ferment and extract and convert the grains' contents. I may keep whole grains but I grind them either with some kefir milk and allow them to be fermented at least another 24 hours OR I get/or grind some to the partially ground stage so that when I ferment them in the kefir they will have more internal surfaces " open " to the whole fermentation process much quicker. E.G. flax seeds ... when they are placed ground into the " 2nd ferment " , (after the kefir milk is taken away from the grains from the first 24 hour ferment/culture), the ferment with the ground flax seeds will extract and make the whole drink or product much more muciligenous than if whole flax seeds are used, simply because the kefir can extract and convert the " inners " better. There is the Budwig protocol where the healing diet even for many cancers is based on cottage cheese and flaxseed diet. I tried finding my own copy of it but couldn't and just found this short summary about her on Amazon which touches on the use of cottage cheese and flaxseed. I am using this as a " relevancy " to " kefir " because all studies show that kefir is much richer in all the critical healing microflora than any of the other cultured milks, and per the flaxseed, I cannot see how the use of kefir to prepare it wouldn't be even better than Dr. Budwig's original diet(s). *(Note aside here .*. as is the way with " vital " health information we need to make intelligent decisions, I see that*many of the former links to her work is no longer available*. I sadly acknowledge that some bureaucracies within our land of the free, and 1st amendment rights, IS arbitrarily limiting our rights of access to this knowledge. As a lawyer, I do hate to admit this. ) Anyway, here is what is said of her & the diet: */Dr. Johanna Budwig developed and promoted from 1952 the Budwig Protocol/Budwig Diet, as an anti-cancer diet. The diet is rich in flaxseed oil, mixed with cottage cheese and milk, and meals high in fruits, vegetables, and fiber. The diet also avoided sugar, animal fats, commercial salad oils, meats, butter, and especially margarine, which is rich is hydrogenated fats. Dr. Budwig reported that within 3 months, some patients on this diet had smaller tumors, some had no tumors left, and all felt better./* */This biography was provided by the author or their representative./* So .. word to the wise here ... place all these bits of knowledge as to what kefir can do to possibly alter your basic foods to make them more digestible into your memory banks, because it MAY mean survival for you and your loved ones. Best to all ... Joyce Simmerman On 6/8/2011 9:04 AM, Liam Serf wrote: > > *And all this has what to do with Kefir? > * > This is WAY off topic. > > Liam Serf > > On 6/7/11 6:38 PM, " Alice Connell " <abconn@... > <mailto:abconn%40wildblue.net>> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Whole grains have nearly the same glycemic index as refined grains. The > > difference is that whole grains offer more nutrients but they are > not lower on > > glycemic index than processed grains. See the link below: > > > > > http://www.columbussports.com/content/writers/dan_falkenberg/the-glycemic-inde > > x-whole-wheat-conundrum.shtml > > > > (excerpt below to above link) > > > > " To sum it all up, whole wheat bread and white bread have about the same > > glycemic index rating, so they'll spike your blood sugar just as > fast, but > > whole wheat bread has a lot of other benefits to compensate for this. " > > > > AND take the quiz in the following link and then scroll to bottow > and see > > answers: > > > > http://www.restoreunity.org/glycemic_index.htm > > > > And lastly, NO way can a gluten intolerant person eat a gluten grain > just > > because it it is a whole grain. In fact, some studies actually show that > > refined grains may not be as bad for a gluten intolerant person as > some of the > > gluten is removed. However, being gluten intolerant I experienced > how being a > > total health food oriented person, choosing to eat only organic > whole grains, > > that eating this way made me very very sick. Before I went on whole > grains I > > was sick too but eating fully whole grains, and even not eating a > lick of > > white sugar, I was still very sick. Another fact, diagnoised gluten > > intolerant people are about 3 to 5 percent. Over 95 percent of gluten > > intolerant people are not diagnoised. So gluten is a huge health > problem to a > > huge number of people who do not know what is so negatively > affecting their > > health. I should also mention that phytic acid is not destroyed in > average > > cooking. One can soak whole grains for 8 or more hours, and pour off > this > > soak water and then cook and that will reduce phytic acid load but > not average > > cooking. > > > > And I would be the first to agree that the science of nutrition is > in its > > infancy but facts are facts. When a glycemic index is measured for white > > flour verses wheat flour with nothing else added, they have the same > amount of > > sugar/glycemic index. That is just a fact. > > > > Alice > > > > Whole grains are low glycemic not high (processed grains are the > ones that are > > high glycemic) meaning that while whole grains have sugars in them, > they also > > have lots of fiber which lowers their effect on the body's serum > blood sugar > > levels. While one should avoid processed " nude " grains, whole grains > are part > > of a healthy, and healing, diet. > > > > As for the phytic acids, they are reduced/eliminated when cooked or > sprouted. > > Gluten is only " damaging " to those individuals who are gluten > intolerant or > > celiac. And, interestingly, those who are " intolerant " can generally > handle > > whole grains just fine--it is the processed grains that cause them > the most > > trouble. > > > > Fermentation does reduce sugars and change the chemistry of foods. It > > also provides much needed probiotics. > > > > Keep in mind that the SCIENCE of nutrition is in it's infancy. There are > > opinions galore and most of them are not based on sound science. > Anytime you > > hear or read that a specific food item is the Evil of All Evils and > the Cause > > of All Disease -- run away fast because frankly, with the exception of > > processed pseudo foods, no specific food or food group is THE cause > of ALL > > anything. > > > > Tina, MScNutrition > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 It was off topic until Joyce put it in perspective and brought it back on-topic. Leave it to Joyce, the kefir queen. Joyce is the only one following guidelines concerning this topic and it is okay that it developed this far. I do tolerate a little off topic posts because I don't like to be too strict. But I am with you, Liam. I don't mind such discussions but it was in the wrong place as you said. Cheers, Marilyn On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 3:34 PM, Liam Serf <liam@...> wrote: > I guess I feel that if I was told by Marilyn when I signed up that topics > in > the kefir group should stay on keir, I should respect what her guidelines > are. She did create a off topic group for conversations like the one in > question. Also if it was on topic why was keir not mentioned. > > I am not saying the discussion was not important, just done in the wrong > place. > > Here is another item that I bet will raise some flack. > > What ever happened to to the point posts that do not ramble. > > Liam Serf (don¹t shoot the messenger) > > If it is not off topic then why was there no mention of Kefir. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 Please, Mariyln I know you are monitoring posts for the concern of them being on the topic of kefir only but please don't allow Joyce to pass on false information that could cause damage and harm others!! I am very concerned with her mis-information on the topic of kefir having the ability to safely be consumed by someone with celiac disease or a gluten intolerance. As someone with a severe wheat allergy and gluten intolerance, and mother of a celiac child I am frightened that someone will take her word for it and do irreversible damage by consuming grains. Can you please address this last thing? - Sent via DROID on Verizon Wireless Re: Re: reducing the fat Liam, I would respectfully dissent that this is definitely NOT " off topic " for kefir, although perhaps Marilyn will have a difference as to whether this should go " off topic " due to its somewhat advanced discussion & I know she likes to keep this forum so newbies can learn the basics. With that said, I will venture that perhaps my opinion as to why this is not " off topic " and possibly relevant to some newbies is that such things as the glycemic index and gluten conversions are sometimes the reasons persons gravitate to the use of kefir in the first place, and learning that it may or may not have an impact. Without getting into the specifics, kefir has the ability to change the characteristics and the way the body can use the foods fermented with it, as well as sugars, etc. from the milk converting them to a different form of sugars/glycemics so as to be most tolerable for those who are lactose intolerant. Same with the gluten sensitivity .. the kefir makes the grains change the gluten so celiac and gluten intolerance can tolerate it. Thus kefir is definitely " relevant " to these subjects. It also has impact on how the body responds to various allergans by actually generating several immune factors with alphabet letters, names & numbers I do not recall but I do recall that the studies showed that kefir was able to effectively enhance many functions of immune system. I believe Hepatitis C and possibly, if I recall correctly, even helping vs. HIV by immune system su Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 Don't be afraid. I approved your post. That is good enough. I do not believe in censorship, believe it or not. I let all kinds of " misinformation " in here. I believe hardly any of us knows anything for sure. And " truth " never hurt anyone. " Lies " do but it is up to us to become informed. Investigating the " lies " can lead us to the " truth " . I think Joyce's post has merit. What anyone does with it is up to them. What I don't like is the attitude when someone thinks they have the corner on truth. About irreversible damage...I might add that according to one of Timpone's guests, when someone has lost their shags due to gluten intolerance, the shags do grow back in the intestines in time, sometimes years, but they do grow back but no gluten whatsoever can be eaten. One person got some improvement on a gluten free diet but not 100% by any means. Her mistake was traced to a communion wafer being eaten once per week. After the priest said it was okay to give it up, she quickly became healthy. By quickly, I think it was another six months. Her shags grew completely back. Don't anybody ask me what a shag is. Unless you want to discuss it over at the offtopicchat which I have ccd. thanks, Marilyn On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 4:15 PM, iamsunshine61178@... < iamsunshine61178@...> wrote: > Please, Mariyln > I know you are monitoring posts for the concern of them being on the topic > of kefir only but please don't allow Joyce to pass on false information > that > could cause damage and harm others!! > I am very concerned with her mis-information on the topic of kefir having > the ability to safely be consumed by someone with celiac disease or a > gluten intolerance. As someone with a severe wheat allergy and gluten > intolerance, and mother of a celiac child I am frightened that someone will > take her word for it and do irreversible damage by consuming grains. Can > you > please address this last thing? > - > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 Joyce, In all fairness, I didn't kefir the whole grains and I will also admit that kefiring gluten grains would change the gluten level but I would not try it out. I was way too sick before I got off of gluten to take any chances of going back there. In my book, a little gluten goes a long way and I don't know if there is a test to show that ALL gluten would be gone. I do kefir breads all the time but use nongluten grains, mostly rice. I had given up eating rice because the high sugar level really spiked my blood sugar but kefirizing rice flour and making bread does not affect my blood sugar. You gave me the idea to try ground flax seeds in my second ferment of WKG, along with my medijol date. And I am intrigued by your explaination of the Budwig protocol and how one can use kefir in place of cottage cheese. Kefir is amazing to say the least. Alice Without getting into the specifics, kefir has the ability to change the characteristics and the way the body can use the foods fermented with it, as well as sugars, etc. from the milk converting them to a different form of sugars/glycemics so as to be most tolerable for those who are lactose intolerant. Same with the gluten sensitivity .. the kefir makes the grains change the gluten so celiac and gluten intolerance can tolerate it. Thus kefir is definitely " relevant " to these subjects. I would question Alice though as to her conclusion that whole grains vs. refined grains and the glycemic and/or gluten factors. She seems to have arrived at good manageability for herself, her whole-body needs and that is what this quest is about. But my question has to do with whether she has used the kefir to ferment and extract and convert the grains' contents. I may keep whole grains but I grind them either with some kefir milk and allow them to be fermented at least another 24 hours OR I get/or grind some to the partially ground stage so that when I ferment them in the kefir they will have more internal surfaces " open " to the whole fermentation process much quicker. E.G. flax seeds ... when they are placed ground into the " 2nd ferment " , (after the kefir milk is taken away from the grains from the first 24 hour ferment/culture), the ferment with the ground flax seeds will extract and make the whole drink or product much more muciligenous than if whole flax seeds are used, simply because the kefir can extract and convert the " inners " better. There is the Budwig protocol where the healing diet even for many cancers is based on cottage cheese and flaxseed diet. Best to all ... Joyce Simmerman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 9, 2011 Report Share Posted June 9, 2011 In response to the post that kefir may not be able to be consumed by those with gluten intolerance; I just wanted to reply with this article I came across the other day regarding the fermenting of bread (though this is not exclusive to kefir fermentation)...the fermenting of bread fully really can make a difference in its tolerance in the gut for those with sensitivities/allergies. The fermentation does have to be thorough and not just a quick inoculation. Please see this article for a little info (not the be all end all by any means): http://nourishedmagazine.com.au/blog/articles/bread-dread-are-you-really-gluten-\ intolerant. With anything you will have to see how your body reacts to things and listen to it. What works for one may not work for another and just because it may not have worked for you doesn't mean it can't work for anyone else. As with kefir, there is a whole science to fermenting and its benefits truly can heal in the sense that it brings less stress on our bodies as we don't have to work as hard to get some of the nutrients that are hidden in foods. Grains in general are hard to digest period unless soaked for I think it was at least 8 hours. Soaking with whey (especially kefir whey) can improve this process if you can stomach the taste. This is an awesome area to do additional research. Some places I have seen some good information regarding this is here: http://www.rebuild-from-depression.com/blog/, here http://www.kitchenstewardship.com/ and here http://rejoiceinlife.com/. I hope some of this information can help others understand the importance of fermenting our foods and how kefir can play an active role in that process...leading to better health. Thanks, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 9, 2011 Report Share Posted June 9, 2011 Greetings, It sounds like you are certainly on the right path for yourself. The dates and flaxseed ground in kefir ferment are great tasting. I like to throw in some nuts too for protein. I've had wild rice harvested by my niece and brother in law up in northern MN that I've occasionally ground in also whereas if I use very much of the wild rice whole in stews it can tend to cause looseness. I think the kefir ferment evens so many factors out and certainly cuts the sugar need. Do you ever add cinnamon for blood sugar? I use it a lot. Best to you .. Joyce Simmerman On 6/9/2011 12:08 AM, Alice Connell wrote: > > Joyce, > > In all fairness, I didn't kefir the whole grains and I will also admit > that kefiring gluten grains would change the gluten level but I would > not try it out. I was way too sick before I got off of gluten to take > any chances of going back there. In my book, a little gluten goes a > long way and I don't know if there is a test to show that ALL gluten > would be gone. I do kefir breads all the time but use nongluten > grains, mostly rice. I had given up eating rice because the high sugar > level really spiked my blood sugar but kefirizing rice flour and > making bread does not affect my blood sugar. > > You gave me the idea to try ground flax seeds in my second ferment of > WKG, along with my medijol date. > > And I am intrigued by your explaination of the Budwig protocol and how > one can use kefir in place of cottage cheese. Kefir is amazing to say > the least. > > Alice > > Without getting into the specifics, kefir has the ability to change the > characteristics and the way the body can use the foods fermented with > it, as well as sugars, etc. from the milk converting them to a different > form of sugars/glycemics so as to be most tolerable for those who are > lactose intolerant. Same with the gluten sensitivity .. the kefir makes > the grains change the gluten so celiac and gluten intolerance can > tolerate it. Thus kefir is definitely " relevant " to these subjects. > > I would question Alice though as to her conclusion that whole grains vs. > refined grains and the glycemic and/or gluten factors. She seems to > have arrived at good manageability for herself, her whole-body needs and > that is what this quest is about. But my question has to do with > whether she has used the kefir to ferment and extract and convert the > grains' contents. I may keep whole grains but I grind them either with > some kefir milk and allow them to be fermented at least another 24 hours > OR I get/or grind some to the partially ground stage so that when I > ferment them in the kefir they will have more internal surfaces " open " > to the whole fermentation process much quicker. > > E.G. flax seeds ... when they are placed ground into the " 2nd ferment " , > (after the kefir milk is taken away from the grains from the first 24 > hour ferment/culture), the ferment with the ground flax seeds will > extract and make the whole drink or product much more muciligenous than > if whole flax seeds are used, simply because the kefir can extract and > convert the " inners " better. > > There is the Budwig protocol where the healing diet even for many > cancers is based on cottage cheese and flaxseed diet. > Best to all ... Joyce Simmerman > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 9, 2011 Report Share Posted June 9, 2011 Thanks , You said: " I hope some of this information can help others understand the importance of fermenting our foods and how kefir can play an active role in that process...leading to better health. Thanks for sharing about the " whole science " to fermenting, etc. , for sharing the links. " Science " is just now starting to make explicit knowledge of what has been " tradition " or even " old wives tales " . Perhaps some of these scenarios should be suggested for " mythbusters " ! Joyce Simmerman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 9, 2011 Report Share Posted June 9, 2011 Thanks Patti ... appreciated!! Joyce Simmerman On 6/8/2011 2:41 PM, patti wrote: > > Thanks SOOOOOOOOOO VERY much Joyce! GREAT explaination! > > Patti > > From: Joyce M. Simmerman <nativelegal@... > <mailto:nativelegal%40gpcom.net>> > > <mailto:%40> > Sent: Wednesday, June 8, 2011 2:21 PM > Subject: Re: Re: reducing the fat > > > Liam, I would respectfully dissent that this is definitely NOT " off > topic " for kefir, although perhaps Marilyn will have a difference as to > whether this should go " off topic " due to its somewhat advanced > discussion & I know she likes to keep this forum so newbies can learn > the basics. > > With that said, I will venture that perhaps my opinion as to why this is > not " off topic " and possibly relevant to some newbies is that such > things as the glycemic index and gluten conversions are sometimes the > reasons persons gravitate to the use of kefir in the first place, and > learning that it may or may not have an impact. > > Without getting into the specifics, kefir has the ability to change the > characteristics and the way the body can use the foods fermented with > it, as well as sugars, etc. from the milk converting them to a different > form of sugars/glycemics so as to be most tolerable for those who are > lactose intolerant. Same with the gluten sensitivity .. the kefir makes > the grains change the gluten so celiac and gluten intolerance can > tolerate it. Thus kefir is definitely " relevant " to these subjects. It > also has impact on how the body responds to various allergans by > actually generating several immune factors with alphabet letters, names > & numbers I do not recall but I do recall that the studies showed that > kefir was able to effectively enhance many functions of immune system. > I believe Hepatitis C and possibly, if I recall correctly, even helping > vs. HIV by immune system supplementing. > > There are many studies being done of kefir in these regards, most > proving kefir very much of benefit and what I personally call its > miracle ways. But I have become somewhat of a kefirvangelist from our > experience, and several others I've started on it, and the experiences > of others corresponding through Marilyn's forum and DOM's as well as > many new-comers to the scene. > > I would question Alice though as to her conclusion that whole grains vs. > refined grains and the glycemic and/or gluten factors. She seems to > have arrived at good manageability for herself, her whole-body needs and > that is what this quest is about. But my question has to do with > whether she has used the kefir to ferment and extract and convert the > grains' contents. I may keep whole grains but I grind them either with > some kefir milk and allow them to be fermented at least another 24 hours > OR I get/or grind some to the partially ground stage so that when I > ferment them in the kefir they will have more internal surfaces " open " > to the whole fermentation process much quicker. > > E.G. flax seeds ... when they are placed ground into the " 2nd ferment " , > (after the kefir milk is taken away from the grains from the first 24 > hour ferment/culture), the ferment with the ground flax seeds will > extract and make the whole drink or product much more muciligenous than > if whole flax seeds are used, simply because the kefir can extract and > convert the " inners " better. > > There is the Budwig protocol where the healing diet even for many > cancers is based on cottage cheese and flaxseed diet. I tried finding > my own copy of it but couldn't and just found this short summary about > her on Amazon which touches on the use of cottage cheese and flaxseed. > I am using this as a " relevancy " to " kefir " because all studies show > that kefir is much richer in all the critical healing microflora than > any of the other cultured milks, and per the flaxseed, I cannot see how > the use of kefir to prepare it wouldn't be even better than Dr. Budwig's > original diet(s). *(Note aside here .*. as is the way with " vital " > health information we need to make intelligent decisions, I see > that*many of the former links to her work is no longer available*. I > sadly acknowledge that some bureaucracies within our land of the free, > and 1st amendment rights, IS arbitrarily limiting our rights of access > to this knowledge. As a lawyer, I do hate to admit this. ) Anyway, > here is what is said of her & the diet: > > */Dr. Johanna Budwig developed and promoted from 1952 the Budwig > Protocol/Budwig Diet, as an anti-cancer diet. The diet is rich > in flaxseed oil, mixed with cottage cheese and milk, and meals > high in fruits, vegetables, and fiber. The diet also avoided > sugar, animal fats, commercial salad oils, meats, butter, and > especially margarine, which is rich is hydrogenated fats. Dr. > Budwig reported that within 3 months, some patients on this diet > had smaller tumors, some had no tumors left, and all felt better./* > > */This biography was provided by the author or their > representative./* > > So .. word to the wise here ... place all these bits of knowledge as to > what kefir can do to possibly alter your basic foods to make them more > digestible into your memory banks, because it MAY mean survival for you > and your loved ones. > Best to all ... Joyce Simmerman > > On 6/8/2011 9:04 AM, Liam Serf wrote: > > > > *And all this has what to do with Kefir? > > * > > This is WAY off topic. > > > > Liam Serf > > > > On 6/7/11 6:38 PM, " Alice Connell " <abconn@... > <mailto:abconn%40wildblue.net> > > <mailto:abconn%40wildblue.net>> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Whole grains have nearly the same glycemic index as refined > grains. The > > > difference is that whole grains offer more nutrients but they are > > not lower on > > > glycemic index than processed grains. See the link below: > > > > > > > > > http://www.columbussports.com/content/writers/dan_falkenberg/the-glycemic-inde > > > x-whole-wheat-conundrum.shtml > > > > > > (excerpt below to above link) > > > > > > " To sum it all up, whole wheat bread and white bread have about > the same > > > glycemic index rating, so they'll spike your blood sugar just as > > fast, but > > > whole wheat bread has a lot of other benefits to compensate for > this. " > > > > > > AND take the quiz in the following link and then scroll to bottow > > and see > > > answers: > > > > > > http://www.restoreunity.org/glycemic_index.htm > > > > > > And lastly, NO way can a gluten intolerant person eat a gluten grain > > just > > > because it it is a whole grain. In fact, some studies actually > show that > > > refined grains may not be as bad for a gluten intolerant person as > > some of the > > > gluten is removed. However, being gluten intolerant I experienced > > how being a > > > total health food oriented person, choosing to eat only organic > > whole grains, > > > that eating this way made me very very sick. Before I went on whole > > grains I > > > was sick too but eating fully whole grains, and even not eating a > > lick of > > > white sugar, I was still very sick. Another fact, diagnoised gluten > > > intolerant people are about 3 to 5 percent. Over 95 percent of gluten > > > intolerant people are not diagnoised. So gluten is a huge health > > problem to a > > > huge number of people who do not know what is so negatively > > affecting their > > > health. I should also mention that phytic acid is not destroyed in > > average > > > cooking. One can soak whole grains for 8 or more hours, and pour off > > this > > > soak water and then cook and that will reduce phytic acid load but > > not average > > > cooking. > > > > > > And I would be the first to agree that the science of nutrition is > > in its > > > infancy but facts are facts. When a glycemic index is measured for > white > > > flour verses wheat flour with nothing else added, they have the same > > amount of > > > sugar/glycemic index. That is just a fact. > > > > > > Alice > > > > > > Whole grains are low glycemic not high (processed grains are the > > ones that are > > > high glycemic) meaning that while whole grains have sugars in them, > > they also > > > have lots of fiber which lowers their effect on the body's serum > > blood sugar > > > levels. While one should avoid processed " nude " grains, whole grains > > are part > > > of a healthy, and healing, diet. > > > > > > As for the phytic acids, they are reduced/eliminated when cooked or > > sprouted. > > > Gluten is only " damaging " to those individuals who are gluten > > intolerant or > > > celiac. And, interestingly, those who are " intolerant " can generally > > handle > > > whole grains just fine--it is the processed grains that cause them > > the most > > > trouble. > > > > > > Fermentation does reduce sugars and change the chemistry of foods. It > > > also provides much needed probiotics. > > > > > > Keep in mind that the SCIENCE of nutrition is in it's infancy. > There are > > > opinions galore and most of them are not based on sound science. > > Anytime you > > > hear or read that a specific food item is the Evil of All Evils and > > the Cause > > > of All Disease -- run away fast because frankly, with the exception of > > > processed pseudo foods, no specific food or food group is THE cause > > of ALL > > > anything. > > > > > > Tina, MScNutrition > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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