2nd ferment

[Guest guest]

Hi

I always second ferment; without it my brews are flat, they are not fizzy..

Second ferment accomplishes something else.. Brews that were just OK acquire a

more mature taste when second fermented.

Now if you leave air, the remaining sugar in the KT wil be further transformed

by the Bacteria AND the yeast, resulting in more acid and less sugar: a sour

brew... If you do not leave any air, the yeast will continue to work while the

bacteria become dormant.. The sugar sugar is transformed by the yeast and there

is from that activity a release of CO2, which is the gas responsible for the

fizzyness, for the effervescence... There are other reactions occurring but the

release of CO2 is one of the most noticeable.

Do not leave any air in the bottle, that will stop your brew from getting sour.

If you need extra effervescence, then add 2 to 3 raisins in the KT bottle before

capping it. I have found that raisins change the taste the least. Other fruits

would have increased the effervescence since they bring sugar to the yeast,

which transform the fruits sugar in CO2 and other stuff. The fruits impart their

own taste to the brew..

---------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

Hi

I always second ferment; without it my brews are flat, they are not fizzy..

Second ferment accomplishes something else.. Brews that were just OK acquire a

more mature taste when second fermented.

Now if you leave air, the remaining sugar in the KT wil be further transformed

by the Bacteria AND the yeast, resulting in more acid and less sugar: a sour

brew... If you do not leave any air, the yeast will continue to work while the

bacteria become dormant.. The sugar sugar is transformed by the yeast and there

is from that activity a release of CO2, which is the gas responsible for the

fizzyness, for the effervescence... There are other reactions occurring but the

release of CO2 is one of the most noticeable.

Do not leave any air in the bottle, that will stop your brew from getting sour.

If you need extra effervescence, then add 2 to 3 raisins in the KT bottle before

capping it. I have found that raisins change the taste the least. Other fruits

would have increased the effervescence since they bring sugar to the yeast,

which transform the fruits sugar in CO2 and other stuff. The fruits impart their

own taste to the brew..

---------------------------------

oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links.

[Guest guest]

In message <fc9r5l+h9j0eGroups> you wrote:

> Hi everybody...........I wrote a few days ago and didn't get any

> response so I thought I would try again . I have reached a stage in

> brewing that I am trying some different recipes...etc...and I am very

> much interested in the 2nd ferment process but I am obviously NOT

> doing something right. Various batches in the last 3 months I tried the

> 2nd ferment and they all turn real sour after 2 or 3 days.......I have

> read on this list where brewers do these 10 and 12 day 2nd ferments

> with great results!!

>

> Can you please share with us exactly how you do it?? I tried corked

> bottles for awhile and have finally accumulated some grolsh type

> bottles, and it doesn't seem to matter either way I get the same results

>

> Are you supposed to fill the bottles right up to the top or leave a

> little air space??

Hi, Lonnie

LOL, mentoring in fermenting! Find me the right evening class! ;-)

It's a bit like painting a picture: You do it and sometimes it turns out

great, but other times, not spectacular.

After many years of brewing I have come to the personal conclusion that

a brew that is tending towards the yeast side will not make a good 2nd

fermentation but a sour yukky one if it was already sour without a

'pleasant edge' after the first fermentation.

The art is to tweak the brew round toward the bacteria side, keeping the

yeasts strictly under control by

1) always taking your starter from the TOP of the brew which is most

bacteria rich with less yeasts (they are mainly on the bottom).

2) discarding the yeast sediment on the bottom of your brewing container

without allowing it to be disturbed and distributed all through your KT.

You want as few yeasts of these as possible in your bottles.

3) using teas in a combination. I have no scientific theory why this should

be so, but it's an observation from practice:

The best brews in my kitchen come from a mix of White/Oolong/Green and the

proportions doesn't seem to matter.

How long do you ferment your first brew, Lonnie?

If it's a fast fermentation it could be an indicator that your yeasts

have been having a population explosion with quicker souring resulting.

It is the yeasts that can't gobble the sucrose fast enough and produce acetic

acid very quickly with no nice flavour left.

http://www.geocities.com/kombucha_balance/

When you select 'starter pot' you will find some good hints how to grow

a starter liquid which is richer in bacteria.

It is the bacteria which give the gentler, complex acidity (unlike the

crude in-your-face acidity that too much yeast produces!)

A brew with this kind of acidity (higher bacteria content) usually makes

a much more pleasing secondary ferment with the champagney quality that

you seek.

Keep us posted about your bubbly experience and whether any of all this

would make a difference, giving you a better tasting KT.

Are you 'ready for battle' and living up to your name? ;-)

Most kombuchaly,

Margret:-)

P.S. As to filling the bottles, I fill mine right to the top. Some people

say it doesn't matter whether you leave an airspace or not. I think the

souring might be less pronounced with not leaving an airspace.....

--

+------------------ Minstrel@... --------------------+

<)))<>< http://www.therpc.f9.co.uk <)))<><

http://www.AnswersInGenesis.com

+----------------- http://www.Gotquestions.org ------------------+

Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, streams of

living water will flow from within him. [Jesus]

[Guest guest]

In message <fc9r5l+h9j0eGroups> you wrote:

> Hi everybody...........I wrote a few days ago and didn't get any

> response so I thought I would try again . I have reached a stage in

> brewing that I am trying some different recipes...etc...and I am very

> much interested in the 2nd ferment process but I am obviously NOT

> doing something right. Various batches in the last 3 months I tried the

> 2nd ferment and they all turn real sour after 2 or 3 days.......I have

> read on this list where brewers do these 10 and 12 day 2nd ferments

> with great results!!

>

> Can you please share with us exactly how you do it?? I tried corked

> bottles for awhile and have finally accumulated some grolsh type

> bottles, and it doesn't seem to matter either way I get the same results

>

> Are you supposed to fill the bottles right up to the top or leave a

> little air space??

Hi, Lonnie

LOL, mentoring in fermenting! Find me the right evening class! ;-)

It's a bit like painting a picture: You do it and sometimes it turns out

great, but other times, not spectacular.

After many years of brewing I have come to the personal conclusion that

a brew that is tending towards the yeast side will not make a good 2nd

fermentation but a sour yukky one if it was already sour without a

'pleasant edge' after the first fermentation.

The art is to tweak the brew round toward the bacteria side, keeping the

yeasts strictly under control by

1) always taking your starter from the TOP of the brew which is most

bacteria rich with less yeasts (they are mainly on the bottom).

2) discarding the yeast sediment on the bottom of your brewing container

without allowing it to be disturbed and distributed all through your KT.

You want as few yeasts of these as possible in your bottles.

3) using teas in a combination. I have no scientific theory why this should

be so, but it's an observation from practice:

The best brews in my kitchen come from a mix of White/Oolong/Green and the

proportions doesn't seem to matter.

How long do you ferment your first brew, Lonnie?

If it's a fast fermentation it could be an indicator that your yeasts

have been having a population explosion with quicker souring resulting.

It is the yeasts that can't gobble the sucrose fast enough and produce acetic

acid very quickly with no nice flavour left.

http://www.geocities.com/kombucha_balance/

When you select 'starter pot' you will find some good hints how to grow

a starter liquid which is richer in bacteria.

It is the bacteria which give the gentler, complex acidity (unlike the

crude in-your-face acidity that too much yeast produces!)

A brew with this kind of acidity (higher bacteria content) usually makes

a much more pleasing secondary ferment with the champagney quality that

you seek.

Keep us posted about your bubbly experience and whether any of all this

would make a difference, giving you a better tasting KT.

Are you 'ready for battle' and living up to your name? ;-)

Most kombuchaly,

Margret:-)

P.S. As to filling the bottles, I fill mine right to the top. Some people

say it doesn't matter whether you leave an airspace or not. I think the

souring might be less pronounced with not leaving an airspace.....

--

+------------------ Minstrel@... --------------------+

<)))<>< http://www.therpc.f9.co.uk <)))<><

http://www.AnswersInGenesis.com

+----------------- http://www.Gotquestions.org ------------------+

Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, streams of

living water will flow from within him. [Jesus]

[Guest guest]

I place my bottles in an ice chest (no ice) for safety, and keep them

at room temperature for about 4 days. I burp them once on the second

day and then place them in the refrigerator on day 4. Your mileage

may vary, so don't be shy to try something different.

When you bottle is the time to add stuff to flavor your KT...

slivers of ginger root, blueberries, strawberries...this will

increase the fizz.

You didn't do anything wrong. My batches turn out different every

time. Sometimes they're fizzy, sometimes not.

-Patty

>

> Hi, I have just bottled up my first batch of KT. Since I've never

done a 2nd ferment before, how long do you let it stay and do you

refrigerate the KT or leave it at room temperature. It's delicious

right now but not very fizzy. Somehow, I seem to think that when I

made it years ago, it got fizzy. Maybe I did something wrong.

>

> Also, does anyone have any leads to water kefir grains? That's

supposed to be fizzy. Can you flavor it? I've never made water kefir.

I used to make regular kefir and will again as soon as I can get some

raw goat milk.

>

> Thanks

>

>

> Maureen \(^o^)/

> Hobbs,Shana,Goody,Sweetie,Tommi

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Maureen....your second ferment may likely increase your carbonation....if

not there are suggestions as to how to get it to increase, ie adding bits of

ginger or fresh fruit when you bottle.

If you want water kefir crystals...I can help you out if you are in the

US...just contact me off list.... :- )

Gayle

WI/USA

2nd ferment

> Hi, I have just bottled up my first batch of KT. Since I've never done a

> 2nd ferment before, how long do you let it stay and do you refrigerate the

> KT or leave it at room temperature. It's delicious right now but not very

> fizzy. Somehow, I seem to think that when I made it years ago, it got

> fizzy. Maybe I did something wrong.

>

> Also, does anyone have any leads to water kefir grains? That's supposed to

> be fizzy. Can you flavor it? I've never made water kefir. I used to make

> regular kefir and will again as soon as I can get some raw goat milk.

>

> Thanks

>

>

> Maureen \(^o^)/

> Hobbs,Shana,Goody,Sweetie,Tommi

[Guest guest]

Thanks Patty. Now at least I have an idea of what to do.

Maureen

Patty T <tri4home@...> wrote: I place my

bottles in an ice chest (no ice) for safety, and keep them

at room temperature for about 4 days. I burp them once on the second

day and then place them in the refrigerator on day 4. Your mileage

may vary, so don't be shy to try something different.

When you bottle is the time to add stuff to flavor your KT...

slivers of ginger root, blueberries, strawberries...this will

increase the fizz.

You didn't do anything wrong. My batches turn out different every

time. Sometimes they're fizzy, sometimes not.

-Patty

>

> Hi, I have just bottled up my first batch of KT. Since I've never

done a 2nd ferment before, how long do you let it stay and do you

refrigerate the KT or leave it at room temperature. It's delicious

right now but not very fizzy. Somehow, I seem to think that when I

made it years ago, it got fizzy. Maybe I did something wrong.

>

> Also, does anyone have any leads to water kefir grains? That's

supposed to be fizzy. Can you flavor it? I've never made water kefir.

I used to make regular kefir and will again as soon as I can get some

raw goat milk.

>

> Thanks

>

>

> Maureen \(^o^)/

> Hobbs,Shana,Goody,Sweetie,Tommi

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

My second ferment did get fizzy. I used raisins in a few bottles and black

cherry concentrate in others. The concentrate seems to be a lot fizzier but both

are delicious. I have them refrigerated now and I can't wait till they get good

and cold.

Thanks

Maureen

G S Marks <gsmarks@...> wrote:

Maureen....your second ferment may likely increase your carbonation....if

not there are suggestions as to how to get it to increase, ie adding bits of

ginger or fresh fruit when you bottle.

If you want water kefir crystals...I can help you out if you are in the

US...just contact me off list.... :- )

Gayle

WI/USA

2nd ferment

> Hi, I have just bottled up my first batch of KT. Since I've never done a

> 2nd ferment before, how long do you let it stay and do you refrigerate the

> KT or leave it at room temperature. It's delicious right now but not very

> fizzy. Somehow, I seem to think that when I made it years ago, it got

> fizzy. Maybe I did something wrong.

>

> Also, does anyone have any leads to water kefir grains? That's supposed to

> be fizzy. Can you flavor it? I've never made water kefir. I used to make

> regular kefir and will again as soon as I can get some raw goat milk.

>

> Thanks

>

>

> Maureen \(^o^)/

> Hobbs,Shana,Goody,Sweetie,Tommi

[Guest guest]

I've been reading this thread with interest as I've never had fizzy

kombucha. I did make some with mesquite honey though and I think I'm in

LOVE lol. Does anyone know of a mesquite honey dealer? I've used our local

honey, but the mesquite gives it a tangy spicy flavor that I really enjoyed.

Norma

--

visit our farm site at:http://www.freewebs.com/sweetspringfarm/

visit our stores at:

http://sweetspringfarm.blujay.com/

http://www.etsy.com/shop.php?user_id=2738

[Guest guest]

I don't understand what I am doing wrong... After 1st ferment, the tea

is all fizzy, without a 2nd ferment. I bottle the tea and in less than

6 hrs it is flat. What am I doing wrong?

Thank you,

lynn

[Guest guest]

Hi lynn, my KT is always quite fizzy also when ready to bottle up, most

people find that it is. (unless it is out of balance) Have you tried putting a

small amount of sugar (say about 1/8th of a tsp.) in the bottom of the bottle

before pouring the fermented tea into it?  Or if you would like, putting fruits,

ginger, unreconstituted juice, etc. (anything that has a natural sugar content

in it before putting in the fermented tea often helps with carbonation in the

2nd ferment). You aren't doing anything wrong, as this is normal, but most

people leave it to set for a few days to build up carbonation after bottling and

putting the lids on tight.  You would really need to watch it though as

depending on the temperature in your house, and how much sugar is still in the

tea, etc. there is the potential for explosion and many people recommend that

you  " burp " the bottles by opening them once a day or so.  I personally have

never burped any of my

bottles, as I keep a very close eye on them, and so far every story I have

heard about them exploding is when the person has totally forgot them.  I have

them in a spot where it is easy to watch over them all the time, so I have never

had an issue with burping my bottles. Just wanted to mention this in case you

have problems in this area, yourself  (Not knowing how hot it is in your

house.) Hope this was helpful.  Jeani

Re: 2nd ferment

I don't understand what I am doing wrong... After 1st ferment, the tea

is all fizzy, without a 2nd ferment. I bottle the tea and in less than

6 hrs it is flat. What am I doing wrong?

Thank you,

lynn

[Guest guest]

Hi Everyone,

I am pretty much a KT newbie and I am doing the continuous brewing method. I

have completed two batches and stored all of my tea in Mason jars. After

the second fermentation, all of the bottles develop a thin film (a new

scoby) on top. I then have trouble trying to remove then (they're slippery

little buggers) when pouring into a glass. They often end up in the glass

and I find myself trying to drink around them.

Am I doing something wrong? Is it better to store them in regular bottles (I

do have the flip-top bottles so I can take KT on the go, but have been using

Mason jars for convenience sake)? I am leaving the bottled tea out for about

4 days, should I put it in the refrigerator sooner? And lastly, is there any

danger to swallowing the baby scobys?

Thanks for your opinions. I really appreciate it.

Corinne

[Guest guest]

I have read here, a lot of people slurp up the baby scobies, no problem.

I don't care to,

I use a small strainer just the size of the glass opening, and strain the

kombucha as I pour.

Then rinse the strainer right away so it doesn't dry on it.

K

Re: Re: 2nd ferment

> Hi Everyone,

>

> I am pretty much a KT newbie and I am doing the continuous brewing method.

> I

> have completed two batches and stored all of my tea in Mason jars. After

> the second fermentation, all of the bottles develop a thin film (a new

> scoby) on top. I then have trouble trying to remove then (they're slippery

> little buggers) when pouring into a glass. They often end up in the glass

> and I find myself trying to drink around them.

>

> Am I doing something wrong? Is it better to store them in regular bottles

> (I

> do have the flip-top bottles so I can take KT on the go, but have been

> using

> Mason jars for convenience sake)? I am leaving the bottled tea out for

> about

> 4 days, should I put it in the refrigerator sooner? And lastly, is there

> any

> danger to swallowing the baby scobys?

>

> Thanks for your opinions. I really appreciate it.

>

> Corinne

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

We take a fork and remove the scoby.  It seems to be the easiest thing to pick

the slimy little thing up. Much easier than straining the whole thing-if you

don't mind drinking the little good for you yeasties.   You aren't doing

anything wrong.  Nearly every one of our bottles of KT have a new little scoby

on top.  I have read that it is actually healthy for you to swallow it, but

can't quite bring myself to do that!!!

You can store the tea in your mason jars, there is nothing wrong with that. You

can put the carbonated KT in the refrigerator at any point that you want-(just

don't leave it until it explodes) whatever amount of carbonation you like is

fine.  Jeani

Re: Re: 2nd ferment

Hi Everyone,

I am pretty much a KT newbie and I am doing the continuous brewing method. I

have completed two batches and stored all of my tea in Mason jars. After

the second fermentation, all of the bottles develop a thin film (a new

scoby) on top. I then have trouble trying to remove then (they're slippery

little buggers) when pouring into a glass. They often end up in the glass

and I find myself trying to drink around them.

Am I doing something wrong? Is it better to store them in regular bottles (I

do have the flip-top bottles so I can take KT on the go, but have been using

Mason jars for convenience sake)? I am leaving the bottled tea out for about

4 days, should I put it in the refrigerator sooner? And lastly, is there any

danger to swallowing the baby scobys?

Thanks for your opinions. I really appreciate it.

Corinne

[Guest guest]

Thanks and Jeani!

I feel better now.

[Guest guest]

In message <gfdfus+6555eGroups> you wrote:

> Hello,

> I have only been brewing KT for a few weeks. I get the best KT with

> white tea. I was wondering What is a 2nd ferment? how do you do it?

> Also what is a SCOBY hotel? Please enlighten me. Thanks

Hi!

S e c o n d f e r m e n t refers to what the Kombucha does once it

is bottled inside the bottle. The yeasts and bacteria are still active

consuming sugar and nutrients even inside the closed bottle.

In the process they cause a build up of CO2=fizz.

That's why you are advised to check the bottles and burp them to avoid BANG.

S c o b y H o t e l is simply a glass jar with KT liquid in which float

your redundant scobys. These consume even more of the resident sugars and

leave the liquid really acidic, making it into the perfect anti-mold acidic

starter for any new brew.

having taken out some of the Hotel liquid you need to top the hotel up again

with some newer KT. Don't use sweet tea, as this would stimulate the yeasts

in the brew too much. The acidic liquid is balanced in favour of the

bacteria side, preventing too rapid a fermentation and thus a premature

souring of your batch.

You cover the scobyHotel the same way as you do your usual fermentation

jar to keep clean inside. Your redundant scobys will keep good in the hotel

for many months and even years.

Scoby hotel is a brilliant thing to have - I use it all the time!

If you have any more questions or new questions arise from what I've

just written, please ask again. We are all learners together!

Have a prosperous day!

Margret:-) UK

--

+------------------ Minstrel@... --------------------+

<)))<>< http://www.therpc.f9.co.uk/family/scobygrow/home.html

I try to take one day at a time, but sometimes

several days attack me at once.

[Guest guest]

>

> I have been brewing KT for a while but just recently started flavoring the 2nd

ferment. I

use jasmine green and earl grey for my favorite tea combination and then I put

fresh lavender

in. Oh what a delicious tea. If you never tried it I strongly suggest it.

Yum!!!!

Be Well, Carol

[Guest guest]

Hi all, when I bottle my water kefir for the second ferment, it is not bubbly at

all. I would prefer real bubbly. Any ideas on what I am doing wrong? Thanks,

LYDIA