Re: What's wrong with charging a fair price for kefir grains? Two perspectives.

[Guest guest]

Hi, Marilyn, I paid for grains from you, and now they are increasing

so fast that I feel free to actually EAT a lot of them. I think that my

health will be better for having high quality foods to put in my aging

body.

Pat in CA

[Guest guest]

I finally wound up freezing some of the grains, they were growing

so fast. The ones you sent are really strong growers.

I even mixed some milk with the pale liquid in the Kefir, and after

a couple of days got Kefir, with the grains strong and continuing

to grow even after straining and added milk. I'll try this again

and re-strain it to make sure I don't get any grains with it, but

it sure seems like the seeds/spores/starts are all through the

stuff, not just in the thick liquid. And that's another thing,

I'm going to try to add milk to some little bit of the finished

drink, and see if IT will grow more grains. Those Iowa grains

are TERRIFIC!!

One other thing, I tried as an experiment, soaking a paper towel

in some Kombucha ferment, drying the towel, then 2 weeks later

I soaked this in freshly made tea, took the by now slimy paper

towel out of it, then let it brew, with no other Kombucha liquid in it,

and another 2 weeks I had a strong growing Kombucha Scoby in

the tea.

So, I wondered about the pale liquid under the mass of Kefir grains

that I got when I didn't get around to it soon enough. So, I took three

sterile cotton balls and soaked them in the clear "plasma" that forms

in the Kefir itself after brewing too long. Now they are drying and

after they are dry, I'll date and store them in zip locs. Then, about

October 1, I'll put them in milk and see if this worked. If it does, then

it won't be so hard to send, or take Kefir starts over seas, or when

going for a long time to new territories.

Has anyone else done this before? Even accidentally?

Pat in CA

[Guest guest]

Hi Pat,

You will add years and quality to your life by taking care of yourself

now. I wonder why some kefir grains don't grow well. I hear that all

the time. And I wonder why my Iowa strain would double every three days

when the norm is to double every 10-14 days. They were doing that back

in Iowa before they came to me so it was nothing I was doing different.

MarilynOn 9/17/06, BSPMerced@... <BSPMerced@...> wrote:

Hi, Marilyn, I paid for grains from you, and now they are increasing

so fast that I feel free to actually EAT a lot of them. I think that my

health will be better for having high quality foods to put in my aging

body.

Pat in CA

[Guest guest]

How did your Kombucha tea taste? How much sweet tea

did you use? Surely not the normal 3 quarts. That would

be hard to get acidified enough with a paper towel soaked

in kt.   Normally people need a Scoby and one cup of kt for starter.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Each glass of the finished tea will start its own Scoby, if left alone.

Of course this tea was in a small container to start with, but a

light film began to spread on the top of it. Then when I decanted the

bigger ones, I ADDED sweetened tea to the newbie, and filled it up

to the top of the pint jar it was starting in. Then the next decanting,

I took some of the (slightly weaker) tea from the newbie, and added

more sweet tea. This little one is going next time into a half gallon

canning jar, and should produce stronger tea this time.

I LOVE experimenting with growing things. And I love

the tea, it has changed my taste where Diet Pepsi is

concerned, it doesn't taste very sharp and strong now,

after drinking a lot of K tea each day.

Pat in CA

[Guest guest]

Hi Pat,On 9/17/06, BSPMerced@... <BSPMerced@...> wrote:

I finally wound up freezing some of the grains, they were growing

so fast. The ones you sent are really strong growers.

I even mixed some milk with the pale liquid in the Kefir, and after

a couple of days got Kefir, with the grains strong and continuing

to grow even after straining and added milk.

You missed some of the kefir grains because there is no such thing as

spontaneous generation with kefir grains. Only kefir grains beget kefir

grains.

I'll try this again

and re-strain it to make sure I don't get any grains with it, but

it sure seems like the seeds/spores/starts are all through the

stuff, not just in the thick liquid.

Itty bitty babies escaped your strainer.

And that's another thing,

I'm going to try to add milk to some little bit of the finished

drink, and see if IT will grow more grains. Those Iowa grains

are TERRIFIC!!

You didn't get Iowa strain. You got Dom's strain. Nothing special

about them except they were taken care of properly before being sent

off to a new home.

One other thing, I tried as an experiment, soaking a paper towel

in some Kombucha ferment, drying the towel, then 2 weeks later

I soaked this in freshly made tea, took the by now slimy paper

towel out of it, then let it brew, with no other Kombucha liquid in it,

and another 2 weeks I had a strong growing Kombucha Scoby in

the tea.

How did your kombucha tea taste? How much sweet tea did you use? Surely

not the normal 3 quarts. That would be hard to get acidified enough

with a paper towel soaked in kt. Normally people need a scoby and

one cup of kt for starter.

So, I wondered about the pale liquid under the mass of Kefir grains

that I got when I didn't get around to it soon enough.

This is whey. I believe the whey lacks yeast because it doesn't

rise bread dough at all. Whole kefir does rise bread dough.

So, I took three

sterile cotton balls and soaked them in the clear " plasma " that forms

in the Kefir itself after brewing too long. Now they are drying and

after they are dry, I'll date and store them in zip locs. Then, about

October 1, I'll put them in milk and see if this worked.

I expect it to make kefir of sorts, but you won't get kefir grains.

If it does, then

it won't be so hard to send, or take Kefir starts over seas, or when

going for a long time to new territories.

I'm more interested in your kombucha experiment for sending overseas.

Thanks for experimenting. And keep giving us the report.

Marilyn

[Guest guest]

Hi Marilyn,

Well said! I totaly agree. I was giving for just the cost of

shipping, until folks started calling me left and right, for more

then just my little bit o left overs/increase.

Also in the Bible, gleeming was food left behind for the poor but

they still had to come pick it up and do the picking work. And we

never said we dont help out the needy at times with our cultures. I

feel guilty selling for more then the shipping, but need to cover my

cost of supplies and shipping materials. Why should every one

exspect to get something for nothing when we do extra work to supply

the demand...more then just a little bit of left overs. I have other

things to be doing with my time to, and if I am trying to make a

living.

P.s. It is not Manna from above, from what I've read that is a

totaly different thing from what I studied about it.

Audrey

<snippet>

> I hear that people on the other kefir list still have a problem

with

> me for asking more than covering my costs for kefir grains. Some

think

> selling and profit are dirty words when referring to kefir grains.

> They say kefir grains should only be given away. They are gifts

from

> above and should be freely given. Here's another perspective.

>

> ALL the wonderful foods and beverages are gifts from our Creator,

not

> just kefir grains. No one expects grocery stores or roadside

stands or

> farmer's markets to give their goods away for free. These people

have

> to make a living whether they choose to sell apples, milk, or kefir

> grains. I've noticed that when I buy apples from an apple orchard,

> they are perfect and the trees are taken care of. When my neighbor

> gives me apples from his trees for free, I notice they are full of

> worms and the trees need pruning. This is not to lessen the

> thoughtfulness of my neighbor. I daresay that if this same neighbor

> produced higher quality apples by putting more time, effort, and

money

> into keeping his trees healthy, he might feel more comfortable

> charging for his apples. No one minds paying for higher quality

> apples. My customers don't mind paying a fair price for kefir

grains

> because they know they are getting the better value. Just ask any

of them.

>

> Marilyn

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ilyn,

The last time I tried to dry my grains and then add powdered milk

they turned blue, moldy so I threw them away and started over. Now I

am getting extra so I can dry or freeze to ship. Sorry, can't recall

if I used powdered milk or parmesan cheese...cause I had been

reading his recipe for making a snack with it. I usualy put them on

a kitchen towel and a dish towel on top on the dinning table, maybe

I should turn on the ceiling fan. Really hard to find places to keep

all my cultures happy warm at the right temp, air curculation...and

not cross culturing ...oven, kitchen counter, dining area....

Found a great large plastic bowl strainer with small holes at the

hmung shop.

> I finaly got a sweet tea, and now that I started over ordering a

scoby and redid all my batches, no one is calling for orders.

Oh, I was reading again the other day about sourdough starter, using

whey, did you try it? Has to try the kefir starter, I got busy and

had to throw mine out.

Audrey

<snippet>

> Itty bitty babies escaped your strainer.

>

You got Dom's strain. Nothing special about

> them except they were taken care of properly before being sent off

to a new

> home.

>>> >

> This is whey. I believe the whey lacks yeast because it doesn't

rise bread

> dough at all. Whole kefir does rise bread dough.

> >

> Marilyn

>

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

So free or paid for I want to know if they are all alike or are they different like the bacteria that I use for making cheeses different?

ita

DRRD-LaManchas

Re: What's wrong with charging a fair price for kefir grains? Two perspectives.

Dear GMG,I usually don't post tho I do do Kefir. But this thread is weird and I just want to share my experience:I belong to a medical newslist for a rare disorder (which means not many support groups for it!!) and some of the listmembers get in to this 'that other list' blah-blah-blah. It's really childish, it irritates the senses and it's not good vibes, bottom line. It's like having an election year all the time. yuck.I only bought grains once and that was from GEM years and years ago when I first started, other than that I have been blessed with being given grains, and contrary to some peoples' insulting opinion: I have given those little babies a very good home - sweet little bumpkins that they are! And, I give to others and ask for shipping of about 5 USD and they seem to all have gone to good and sharing homes. I don't get at all that one set of circumstances promotes 'a better home' - that doesn't jive with my own experience. I guess we could do a study but those might be as good as lots of drug clinical trials (not!).Why don't we just take our own path and not need to justify it by diss'g others? You want to sell your grains, sell them. You want to give them away, God love you. What if we just do what is right for our own self and not dis' others who are doing what they think is right for them? Let's just move down our own paths and be content with that, Rose>> Hi Marilyn,> Well said! I totaly agree. I was giving for just the cost of > shipping, until folks started calling me left and right, for more > then just my little bit o left overs/increase. > Also in the Bible, gleeming was food left behind for the poor but > they still had to come pick it up and do the picking work. And we > never said we dont help out the needy at times with our cultures. I > feel guilty selling for more then the shipping, but need to cover my > cost of supplies and shipping materials. Why should every one > exspect to get something for nothing when we do extra work to supply > the demand...more then just a little bit of left overs. I have other > things to be doing with my time to, and if I am trying to make a > living. > P.s. It is not Manna from above, from what I've read that is a > totaly different thing from what I studied about it.> Audrey> > > > <snippet>> > I hear that people on the other kefir list still have a problem > with> > me for asking more than covering my costs for kefir grains. Some > think> > selling and profit are dirty words when referring to kefir grains.> > They say kefir grains should only be given away. They are gifts > from> > above and should be freely given. Here's another perspective.> > > > ALL the wonderful foods and beverages are gifts from our Creator, > not> > just kefir grains. No one expects grocery stores or roadside > stands or> > farmer's markets to give their goods away for free. These people > have> > to make a living whether they choose to sell apples, milk, or kefir> > grains. I've noticed that when I buy apples from an apple orchard,> > they are perfect and the trees are taken care of. When my neighbor> > gives me apples from his trees for free, I notice they are full of> > worms and the trees need pruning. This is not to lessen the> > thoughtfulness of my neighbor. I daresay that if this same neighbor> > produced higher quality apples by putting more time, effort, and > money> > into keeping his trees healthy, he might feel more comfortable> > charging for his apples. No one minds paying for higher quality> > apples. My customers don't mind paying a fair price for kefir > grains> > because they know they are getting the better value. Just ask any > of them.> > > > Marilyn> >>

[Guest guest]

Hi ita,

That is a good question. Kefir grains are going to vary from home to

home according to their food supply and how well they are taken care

of. If you get them from someone who

1) gives them a fresh change of milk everyday

2) keeps them at room temperature

3) gives them plenty of milk to eat indicated by no separation of whey before straining

4) in other words well fed

your kefir grains will be in a healthy balance of bacteria and yeast.

But if you get them from someone who " stores " them in milk in the

refrigerator between batches, or worse, stores them in water, in other

words, starves them, they are going to be way out of balance when you

get them. The taste will be more or less unpleasant until the kefir

grains go back into balance as you take care of them properly. It may

take up to two weeks. Hopefully not longer. And this is the neat thing

about kefir grains. No matter how starved and abused they were, they go

back into pristine condition with proper care. I know this by

experience. I have gotten kefir grains from several people and around

the world. With only one exception the ones I paid for were in good

condition and the ones I got for free were out of balance. This is not

to say that every person giving them away aren't taking proper care of

them. I think what happens is that people get overwhelmed with the

growth and so they stick them in the refrigerator to slow them down.

Then when there is a call for some, they know exactly where their

extras are.

Marilyn

On 9/26/06, DRRD <RompingRockDairy@...> wrote:

So free or paid for I want to know if they are all alike or are they different like the bacteria that I use for making cheeses different?

ita

DRRD-LaManchas

[Guest guest]

Thank you Marilyn.

OK I am going to ween the calves next week and I will have some extra milk after that. How many grains does it take for say 1 gallon of milk? I am diabetic and have troubles with candadiasis and they have always told me to eat yogurt but no one told me of kefir. Is kefir like goats a well kept secret?

ita

Re: Re: What's wrong with charging a fair price for kefir grains? Two perspectives.

Hi ita,That is a good question. Kefir grains are going to vary from home to home according to their food supply and how well they are taken care of. If you get them from someone who 1) gives them a fresh change of milk everyday2) keeps them at room temperature 3) gives them plenty of milk to eat indicated by no separation of whey before straining4) in other words well fedyour kefir grains will be in a healthy balance of bacteria and yeast.But if you get them from someone who "stores" them in milk in the refrigerator between batches, or worse, stores them in water, in other words, starves them, they are going to be way out of balance when you get them. The taste will be more or less unpleasant until the kefir grains go back into balance as you take care of them properly. It may take up to two weeks. Hopefully not longer. And this is the neat thing about kefir grains. No matter how starved and abused they were, they go back into pristine condition with proper care. I know this by experience. I have gotten kefir grains from several people and around the world. With only one exception the ones I paid for were in good condition and the ones I got for free were out of balance. This is not to say that every person giving them away aren't taking proper care of them. I think what happens is that people get overwhelmed with the growth and so they stick them in the refrigerator to slow them down. Then when there is a call for some, they know exactly where their extras are.Marilyn

On 9/26/06, DRRD <RompingRockDairy@...> wrote:

So free or paid for I want to know if they are all alike or are they different like the bacteria that I use for making cheeses different?

ita

DRRD-LaManchas