Re: Re: So many questions about Vaccination!!

[Guest guest]

these are excellent questions Alina.... prsonally i dont know anyone who got hte measles, but i know ALL of us got chicken pox as kids and it wasa considered normal..... when did the chicken pox sudednly become this deathly thing ? 

i never heard of VAERS data but im looking at it now... this is great stuff !!!!!!! thank you everyone for your comments and information. I guess i have to keep learning and studying so i feel more confident (regardless if im explaining things to people) .... 

deb  On Fri, Dec 16, 2011 at 12:26 PM, harleysc@... <harleysc@...> wrote:

 

' " My doc says he's seen kids die but never any serious conditions

from Vaccines etc " '

This is a little OT for me as I don't have children, but I can tell you it works the same way in the pet world. After my german shepherd had an adverse reaction to a rabies vaccine, my vet swore up and down that it was in NO way possible that his reaction was casued by the vaccine. In addition, in her 20+ years of practice, she had NEVER once seen an adverse reaction to a vaccine. Yeah, sure.

The problem, I think, is that nobody connects the dots. There is a long list of symptoms, both short and long term in humans and animals that are side effects of vaccines. But most people, including drs and vets, either don't know this, or look at is as being expected and normal. Therefore, the majority of these adverse reactions are never reported. I can't imagine what the stats would be if everyone reported every reaction after a vaccine was administered!

Friends of ours have a 1 1/2 year old son. EVERY time he gets his vaccines he is in ill health. Fever, cold symptoms, etc., and bad ones that last for at least a week. But hey, that's normal and expected, so they deal with it. I won't even mention how they can't even stay in the room with him when the vaccines are administered because he is in such hysterics that they can't bear to watch it.

The things people are willing to accept because a dr tells them to do it makes me speechless.

Alina

>

> Hi Winnie,

> Thanks for your reply as well.... you are BRILLIANT when it comes to

> Vaccines.. you seem to know all your facts down PAT !!! Do you even get

> into any arguements with people anymore ?

>

> I'm really LOVING your idea of " throwing the questions back " .... this one

> woman i know really upsets me when she goes into her rants about how people

> who dont vaccinate are " selfish " and " neglectful " and " irresponsible " .. i

> mean come on, its not like we're abusive parents !!!!so that really upsets

> me. I do like the idea of changing the conversation that instead of giving

> answers, we're making THEM answer their own questions... (is that what you

> mean?)

>

> Questions that i should reply would be:

> " why is it that Vaccinated kids get the illnesses they were protected from?

> ... this means they dont always work? " (ummm thats where Herd Immunity

> comes in... i'll have to look up those links posted)

>

> What do you mean Winnie when you said " If Vaccines are so benign, whats the

> harm in conituning them? " (since people think the'yre safe... how do you

> mean " continue them " as in booster shots?)

>

> I never heard of VAERS reports.... i'll google it

>

> I would say 90% of my freinds who are parents (i'm 29 so most of my freinds

> have like 1-3 kids - still new, researching etc.) they ALL have said

> something along the lines of " benefits outweigh the risks... i've done the

> research. My doc says he's seen kids die but never any serious conditions

> from Vaccines etc "

>

> Intersting point that ALL vaccines comes with differnt effectiveness and

> side effects --- so REALLY we (and we as in argumentor/ argumentee should

> discuss one at a time... like Flu Vaccine was just written up that the

> claims for effectiveness are NOT true....etc) On the flip side every

> illness effects people differently because of health history.... (yes i'm

> repeating what youre saying, i just need to clarify to make sure i

> understand ... hope you forgive)

>

> SO my friends who say the benefits outweigh the risks - are BASICALLY

> saying that tehre ARE risks. So which ones have risks, and what kind of

> risks ??? ( i like that)

>

> Winnie, my favorite line of your email ---- " You think You dont have

> combacks? They dont either " -- ha !!!! youre adorable

>

> AS for my hubby, hes come a LOOOONG way. His family never heard of an herb

> or vitamin in their life, and my husbands first introduction to natural

> living was joining me (as my boyfriend) to a visit at the

> Kinesiologit/chiropractor. He freaked out when she muscle tested me .... so

> i think we'll get there, i just think he needs to feel more confident ...

> and i'll assume that at some point we'll recieve a lot of flack from family

> members, so he'll need to know how to respond .... and know hes doing the

> right thing for his kids.

>

> Thanks again Winnie !!!

> (are you writing a book of all the information you know ?

>

[Guest guest]

How awful, abandoning your child because it's too hard on you to watch. What must be going through that child's mind?? They could at least be there and keep their eyes shut!

Winnie Re: So many questions about Vaccination!!Vaccinations > > > ' "My doc says he's seen kids die but never any serious conditions> from Vaccines etc" '> > This is a little OT for me as I don't have children, but I can > tell you it works the same way in the pet world. After my german > shepherd had an adverse reaction to a rabies vaccine, my vet > swore up and down that it was in NO way possible that his > reaction was casued by the vaccine. In addition, in her 20+ > years of practice, she had NEVER once seen an adverse reaction > to a vaccine. Yeah, sure. > > The problem, I think, is that nobody connects the dots. There is > a long list of symptoms, both short and long term in humans and > animals that are side effects of vaccines. But most people, > including drs and vets, either don't know this, or look at is as > being expected and normal. Therefore, the majority of these > adverse reactions are never reported. I can't imagine what the > stats would be if everyone reported every reaction after a > vaccine was administered!> > Friends of ours have a 1 1/2 year old son. EVERY time he gets > his vaccines he is in ill health. Fever, cold symptoms, etc., > and bad ones that last for at least a week. But hey, that's > normal and expected, so they deal with it. I won't even mention > how they can't even stay in the room with him when the vaccines > are administered because he is in such hysterics that they can't > bear to watch it. > > The things people are willing to accept because a dr tells them > to do it makes me speechless.> > Alina> > > > > >> > Hi Winnie,> > Thanks for your reply as well.... you are BRILLIANT when it > comes to> > Vaccines.. you seem to know all your facts down PAT !!! Do you > even get> > into any arguements with people anymore ? > > > > I'm really LOVING your idea of "throwing the questions back" > .... this one> > woman i know really upsets me when she goes into her rants > about how people> > who dont vaccinate are "selfish" and "neglectful" and > "irresponsible" .. i> > mean come on, its not like we're abusive parents !!!!so that > really upsets> > me. I do like the idea of changing the conversation that > instead of giving> > answers, we're making THEM answer their own questions... (is > that what you> > mean?)> > > > Questions that i should reply would be:> > "why is it that Vaccinated kids get the illnesses they were > protected from?> > ... this means they dont always work?" (ummm thats where Herd > Immunity> comes in... i'll have to look up those links posted)> > > > What do you mean Winnie when you said "If Vaccines are so > benign, whats the> > harm in conituning them?" (since people think the'yre safe... > how do you> > mean "continue them" as in booster shots?)> > > > I never heard of VAERS reports.... i'll google it > > > > I would say 90% of my freinds who are parents (i'm 29 so most > of my freinds> > have like 1-3 kids - still new, researching etc.) they ALL > have said> > something along the lines of "benefits outweigh the risks... > i've done the> > research. My doc says he's seen kids die but never any serious > conditions> from Vaccines etc"> > > > Intersting point that ALL vaccines comes with differnt > effectiveness and> > side effects --- so REALLY we (and we as in argumentor/ > argumentee should> > discuss one at a time... like Flu Vaccine was just written up > that the> > claims for effectiveness are NOT true....etc) On the flip side every> > illness effects people differently because of health > history.... (yes i'm> > repeating what youre saying, i just need to clarify to make > sure i> > understand ... hope you forgive)> > > > SO my friends who say the benefits outweigh the risks - are > BASICALLY> saying that tehre ARE risks. So which ones have > risks, and what kind of> > risks ??? ( i like that)> > > > Winnie, my favorite line of your email ---- "You think You > dont have> > combacks? They dont either" -- ha !!!! youre adorable > > > > AS for my hubby, hes come a LOOOONG way. His family never > heard of an herb> > or vitamin in their life, and my husbands first introduction > to natural> > living was joining me (as my boyfriend) to a visit at the> > Kinesiologit/chiropractor. He freaked out when she muscle > tested me .... so> > i think we'll get there, i just think he needs to feel more > confident ...> > and i'll assume that at some point we'll recieve a lot of > flack from family> > members, so he'll need to know how to respond .... and know > hes doing the> > right thing for his kids.> > > > Thanks again Winnie !!!> > (are you writing a book of all the information you know ? > >> > >

[Guest guest]

Nobody comes back for seconds--haha! I'll bet they don't. They're probably running home to find out what the heck VAERS is, probably thinking it's a new disease!

Winnie Re: So many questions about Vaccination!!> > Vaccinations > > > > > Hi Winnie,> > > Thanks for your reply as well.... you are BRILLIANT when it > > > comes to> > > Vaccines.. you seem to know all your facts down PAT !!! Do > you > > > even get> > > into any arguements with people anymore ? > > > > > > I'm really LOVING your idea of "throwing the questions back" > > > .... this one> > > woman i know really upsets me when she goes into her rants > about > > > how people> > > who dont vaccinate are "selfish" and "neglectful" and > > > "irresponsible" .. i> > > mean come on, its not like we're abusive parents !!!!so that > > > really upsets> > > me. I do like the idea of changing the conversation that > instead > > > of giving> > > answers, we're making THEM answer their own questions... (is > > > that what you> > > mean?)> > > > > > Questions that i should reply would be:> > > "why is it that Vaccinated kids get the illnesses they were > > > protected from?> > > ... this means they dont always work?" (ummm thats where > Herd Immunity> > > comes in... i'll have to look up those links posted)> > > > > > What do you mean Winnie when you said "If Vaccines are so > > > benign, whats the> > > harm in conituning them?" (since people think the'yre > safe... > > > how do you> > > mean "continue them" as in booster shots?)> > > > > > I never heard of VAERS reports.... i'll google it > > > > > > I would say 90% of my freinds who are parents (i'm 29 so > most of > > > my freinds> > > have like 1-3 kids - still new, researching etc.) they ALL > have said> > > something along the lines of "benefits outweigh the risks... > > > i've done the> > > research. My doc says he's seen kids die but never any > serious > > > conditionsfrom Vaccines etc"> > > > > > Intersting point that ALL vaccines comes with differnt > > > effectiveness and> > > side effects --- so REALLY we (and we as in argumentor/ > > > argumentee should> > > discuss one at a time... like Flu Vaccine was just written > up > > > that the> > > claims for effectiveness are NOT true....etc) On the flip > side every> > > illness effects people differently because of health > history.... > > > (yes i'm> > > repeating what youre saying, i just need to clarify to make > sure i> > > understand ... hope you forgive)> > > > > > SO my friends who say the benefits outweigh the risks - are > BASICALLY> > saying that tehre ARE risks. So which ones have > risks, and what > > > kind of> > > risks ??? ( i like that)> > > > > > Winnie, my favorite line of your email ---- "You think You > dont have> > > combacks? They dont either" -- ha !!!! youre adorable > > > > > > AS for my hubby, hes come a LOOOONG way. His family never > heard > > > of an herb> > > or vitamin in their life, and my husbands first introduction > to > > > naturalliving was joining me (as my boyfriend) to a visit at the> > > Kinesiologit/chiropractor. He freaked out when she muscle > tested > > > me .... so> > > i think we'll get there, i just think he needs to feel more > > > confident ...> > > and i'll assume that at some point we'll recieve a lot of > flack > > > from family> > > members, so he'll need to know how to respond .... and know > hes > > > doing the> > > right thing for his kids.> > > > > > Thanks again Winnie !!!> > > (are you writing a book of all the information you know ? > > >> >> > >

[Guest guest]

A disease that used to be considered friendly is no longer that when a vaccine is introduced. Nita, mom to: 18, Jon 17, 14, 12, 10, Christian RIP: 7/16/03-8/22/04, 6, Isaac 3 and , born 3/1/11http://momof6.dotphoto.com for possibly current pictures and http://nitasspot.blogspot.comNitaSews on etsy.comIf you have melted chocolate on your hands, you're eating it too slowly! ..... when did the chicken pox sudednly become this deathly thing ?

[Guest guest]

Yes, measles and chicken pox were considered very mild and rather necessary before the vaccines were introduced to rid the population from them. Even the cdc says so... from the pink book "In addition, measles susceptibility of infants younger than 1 year of age may have increased. During the 1989–1991 measles resurgence, incidence rates for infants were more than twice as high as those in any other age group. The mothers of many infants who developed measles were young, and their measles immunity was most often due to vaccination rather than infection with wild virus. As a result, a smaller amount of antibody was transferred across the

placenta to the fetus, compared with antibody transfer from mothers who had higher antibody titers resulting from wild-virus infection. The lower quantity of antibody resulted in immunity that waned more rapidly, making infants susceptible at a younger age than in the past."http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1919891/pdf/pubhealthreporig00027-0069.pdf ~ Maureen R. Gradvohl ~ From: Venita Garner <nitagarner@...> Vaccinations Sent: Friday, December 16, 2011 11:20 AM Subject: RE: Re: So many questions about Vaccination!!

A disease that used to be considered friendly is no longer that when a vaccine is introduced. Nita, mom to: 18, Jon 17, 14, 12, 10, Christian RIP: 7/16/03-8/22/04, 6, Isaac 3 and , born 3/1/11http://momof6.dotphoto.com for possibly

current pictures and http://nitasspot.blogspot.comNitaSews on etsy.comIf you have melted chocolate on your hands, you're eating it too slowly! ..... when did the chicken pox sudednly become this deathly thing ?

[Guest guest]

wow !!!!!! That is so interesting about measles !!!! since i never had them, and odnt really knkow anyone who had it, the only thing i associate with it is the red bumps, and this notion that a person can become sterile from it (Or am i confusing this wiht another illness?) 

So strange. I told my husband about this thread (since i started it And i told him all what you have been telling me and he said a few things: - he said hes not fully sure that ALL vaccines are bad, or necessary. Isnt it possible that some could be helpful while others are more bad? (i disagree, but this is one of his concepts hes grappling with) 

- he also mentioned that its so hard (for someone like him) who in reality he doesnt KNOW anyone with real injuries... he doesnt know anyone with AUtism, or any of these kinds of major issues. The people in our circle are relatively " healthy " so whats the problem? (we then discussed what Winnie mentioned that we need to begin CONNECTING the dots... my husbands brother has TERRIBLE adhd and had speech issues as a kid. His sister had growing issues as an infant and is ALWAYS sick with colds, viruses, strep etc. his other brother is allergic to everything. So my husband realized - can it be that these things are connected? yes, but we're never taught to look at it that way... ADHD was always an " illness " and theres medication ... ) 

Anyways, i really do appreciate everyones commentary on this. I feel like i should begin a binder or notebook of these kinds of things this way when i " forget " in a year from now - i can rifle through these things and remind myself... 

Thank you ! deb  On Fri, Dec 16, 2011 at 3:27 PM, maureen gradvohl <mrsvoltaire@...> wrote:

 

Yes, measles and chicken pox were considered very mild and rather necessary before the vaccines were introduced to rid the population from them.   Even the cdc says so... from the pink book " In addition, measles susceptibility of infants younger than 1 year of age may have increased. During the 1989–1991 measles resurgence, incidence rates for infants were more than twice as high as those in any other age group. The mothers of many infants who developed measles were young, and their measles immunity was most often due to vaccination rather than infection with wild virus. As a result, a smaller amount of antibody was transferred across the

placenta to the fetus, compared with antibody transfer from mothers who had higher antibody titers resulting from wild-virus infection. The lower quantity of antibody resulted in immunity that waned more rapidly, making infants susceptible at a younger age than in the past. "

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1919891/pdf/pubhealthreporig00027-0069.pdf

 ~ Maureen R. Gradvohl ~ 

From: Venita Garner <nitagarner@...> Vaccinations

Sent: Friday, December 16, 2011 11:20 AM Subject: RE: Re: So many questions about Vaccination!!

 

A disease that used to be considered friendly is no longer that when a vaccine is introduced.

   Nita, mom to: 18, Jon 17, 14, 12, 10, Christian  RIP: 7/16/03-8/22/04, 6, Isaac 3 and , born 3/1/11

http://momof6.dotphoto.com for possibly

current pictures and http://nitasspot.blogspot.com

NitaSews on etsy.comIf you have melted chocolate on your hands, you're eating it too slowly!

 ..... when did the chicken pox sudednly become this deathly thing ?   

[Guest guest]

A lot of conditions are so common they are considered "normal," especially by those who grew up with them. But I when I was growing up kids did not have cancer, severe allergies, no one had inhalers for their asthma, no one I knew even had it, no schools had every classroom door plastered with "dairy-free, egg-free, peanut-free, tree-nut free, gluten-free" to accommodate the extreme number of kids with these problems. Unless you're in schools you might not notice these things.

And your husband isn't seeing those who were killed or institutionalized due to vaccines because they're not around.

No, it's not possible for some vaccines to be helpful because they would have to work first--and none do. None. Vaccinating doesn't help anyone but those who profit from them. Every single vaccine carries the risk of serious side effects. Taking that risk, especially for nothing, is not helpful. It's risky. It takes a long time to realize they don't work, though.

Winnie* RE: Re: So many questions about > Vaccination!!>> >> > A disease that used to be considered friendly is no longer > that when a> > vaccine is introduced.> >> >> > Nita, mom to: 18, Jon 17, 14, 12, 10,> > Christian RIP: 7/16/03-8/22/04, 6, Isaac 3 and , > born 3/1/11> > http://momof6.dotphoto.com for possibly current pictures and> > http://nitasspot.blogspot.com> > NitaSews on etsy.com> > If you have melted chocolate on your hands, you're eating it > too slowly!> >> > ..... when did the chicken pox sudednly become this deathly > thing ?> >> >> >> > > >>

[Guest guest]

I had the measles and the mumps

don't recall any problems other than difficulty swallowing

I remember several kids on my street had the mumps at the same time...we laughed cause we all had chipmunk cheeks LOL

-Kathy

Re: Re: So many questions about Vaccination!!

these are excellent questions Alina....

prsonally i dont know anyone who got hte measles, but i know ALL of us got chicken pox as kids and it wasa considered normal..... when did the chicken pox sudednly become this deathly thing ?

i never heard of VAERS data but im looking at it now... this is great stuff !!!!!!!

thank you everyone for your comments and information. I guess i have to keep learning and studying so i feel more confident (regardless if im explaining things to people) ....

deb

On Fri, Dec 16, 2011 at 12:26 PM, harleysc@... <harleysc@...> wrote:

' "My doc says he's seen kids die but never any serious conditionsfrom Vaccines etc" 'This is a little OT for me as I don't have children, but I can tell you it works the same way in the pet world. After my german shepherd had an adverse reaction to a rabies vaccine, my vet swore up and down that it was in NO way possible that his reaction was casued by the vaccine. In addition, in her 20+ years of practice, she had NEVER once seen an adverse reaction to a vaccine. Yeah, sure. The problem, I think, is that nobody connects the dots. There is a long list of symptoms, both short and long term in humans and animals that are side effects of vaccines. But most people, including drs and vets, either don't know this, or look at is as being expected and normal. Therefore, the majority of these adverse reactions are never reported. I can't imagine what the stats would be if everyone reported every reaction after a vaccine was administered!Friends of ours have a 1 1/2 year old son. EVERY time he gets his vaccines he is in ill health. Fever, cold symptoms, etc., and bad ones that last for at least a week. But hey, that's normal and expected, so they deal with it. I won't even mention how they can't even stay in the room with him when the vaccines are administered because he is in such hysterics that they can't bear to watch it. The things people are willing to accept because a dr tells them to do it makes me speechless.Alina

>> Hi Winnie,> Thanks for your reply as well.... you are BRILLIANT when it comes to> Vaccines.. you seem to know all your facts down PAT !!! Do you even get> into any arguements with people anymore ? > > I'm really LOVING your idea of "throwing the questions back" .... this one> woman i know really upsets me when she goes into her rants about how people> who dont vaccinate are "selfish" and "neglectful" and "irresponsible" .. i> mean come on, its not like we're abusive parents !!!!so that really upsets> me. I do like the idea of changing the conversation that instead of giving> answers, we're making THEM answer their own questions... (is that what you> mean?)> > Questions that i should reply would be:> "why is it that Vaccinated kids get the illnesses they were protected from?> ... this means they dont always work?" (ummm thats where Herd Immunity> comes in... i'll have to look up those links posted)> > What do you mean Winnie when you said "If Vaccines are so benign, whats the> harm in conituning them?" (since people think the'yre safe... how do you> mean "continue them" as in booster shots?)> > I never heard of VAERS reports.... i'll google it > > I would say 90% of my freinds who are parents (i'm 29 so most of my freinds> have like 1-3 kids - still new, researching etc.) they ALL have said> something along the lines of "benefits outweigh the risks... i've done the> research. My doc says he's seen kids die but never any serious conditions> from Vaccines etc"> > Intersting point that ALL vaccines comes with differnt effectiveness and> side effects --- so REALLY we (and we as in argumentor/ argumentee should> discuss one at a time... like Flu Vaccine was just written up that the> claims for effectiveness are NOT true....etc) On the flip side every> illness effects people differently because of health history.... (yes i'm> repeating what youre saying, i just need to clarify to make sure i> understand ... hope you forgive)> > SO my friends who say the benefits outweigh the risks - are BASICALLY> saying that tehre ARE risks. So which ones have risks, and what kind of> risks ??? ( i like that)> > Winnie, my favorite line of your email ---- "You think You dont have> combacks? They dont either" -- ha !!!! youre adorable > > AS for my hubby, hes come a LOOOONG way. His family never heard of an herb> or vitamin in their life, and my husbands first introduction to natural> living was joining me (as my boyfriend) to a visit at the> Kinesiologit/chiropractor. He freaked out when she muscle tested me .... so> i think we'll get there, i just think he needs to feel more confident ...> and i'll assume that at some point we'll recieve a lot of flack from family> members, so he'll need to know how to respond .... and know hes doing the> right thing for his kids.> > Thanks again Winnie !!!> (are you writing a book of all the information you know ? >

[Guest guest]

it's actually the mumps that can cause sterility in a small number of cases

a local chiropractor here is sterile due to having mumps as a child

-Kathy

RE: Re: So many questions about Vaccination!!

A disease that used to be considered friendly is no longer that when a vaccine is introduced.

Nita, mom to: 18, Jon 17, 14, 12, 10, Christian RIP: 7/16/03-8/22/04, 6, Isaac 3 and , born 3/1/11http://momof6.dotphoto.com for possibly current pictures and http://nitasspot.blogspot.com

NitaSews on etsy.com

If you have melted chocolate on your hands, you're eating it too slowly!

...... when did the chicken pox sudednly become this deathly thing ?

[Guest guest]

And it's generally one-sided, so that leaves the other side able to still produce sperm. According to the esteemed CDC: "Complications of mumps can include inflammation of the testicles (orchitis) in males who have reached puberty, which rarely leads to sterility."

Winnie RE: Re: So many questions about > Vaccination!!> > > > A disease that used to be considered friendly is no longer > that when a vaccine is introduced.> > > Nita, mom to: 18, Jon 17, 14, 12, > 10, Christian RIP: 7/16/03-8/22/04, 6, Isaac 3 and > , born 3/1/11> http://momof6.dotphoto.com for possibly current pictures and > http://nitasspot.blogspot.com NitaSews on etsy.com> If you have melted chocolate on your hands, you're eating it > too slowly!> > ..... when did the chicken pox sudednly become this deathly > thing ? > > > > > > > > > > >

[Guest guest]

i think i will start a binder of some kind to collect articles and such. Yes, sorry i guess i was referring to Mumps about sterility .... wait, so thats kind of scary taht you know someone that that hapepned to.... (in other words, i would think its a vote in teh wrong direction.) 

deb  On Sat, Dec 17, 2011 at 2:25 PM, <wharrison@...> wrote:

 

And it's generally one-sided, so that leaves the other side able to still produce sperm. According to the esteemed CDC: " Complications of mumps can include inflammation of the testicles (orchitis) in males who have reached puberty, which rarely leads to sterility. "

 

Winnie RE: Re: So many questions about

> Vaccination!!> > > > A disease that used to be considered friendly is no longer > that when a vaccine is introduced.> > > Nita, mom to: 18, Jon 17, 14, 12,

> 10, Christian RIP: 7/16/03-8/22/04, 6, Isaac 3 and > , born 3/1/11> http://momof6.dotphoto.com for possibly current pictures and

> http://nitasspot.blogspot.com NitaSews on etsy.com> If you have melted chocolate on your hands, you're eating it

> too slowly!> > ..... when did the chicken pox sudednly become this deathly > thing ? > > > > > > > > > > >

[Guest guest]

RE: mumps.According to Dr. S. Mendelsohn, mumps in adults may cause sterility rarely if the disease involves one of the testicles, and then that leaves the other testicle that can repopulate the earth, not that losing the function of a testicle is not a cause for concern - the condition is called orchitis. Women can get the same condition, and even more rarely would an adult case of mumps involve the ovaries - oophritis. ~ Maureen R. Gradvohl ~ From: Deborah <gubertush@...> Vaccinations Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2011 2:29 PM Subject: Re: Re: So many questions about Vaccination!!

i think i will start a binder of some kind to collect articles and such. Yes, sorry i guess i was referring to Mumps about sterility .... wait, so thats kind of scary taht you know someone that that hapepned to.... (in other words, i would think its a vote in teh wrong direction.)

deb On Sat, Dec 17, 2011 at 2:25 PM, <wharrison@...> wrote:

And it's generally one-sided, so that leaves the other side able to still produce sperm. According to the esteemed CDC: "Complications of mumps can include inflammation of the testicles (orchitis) in males who have reached puberty, which rarely leads to sterility."

Winnie RE: Re: So many questions about

> Vaccination!!> > > > A disease that used to be considered friendly is no longer > that when a vaccine is introduced.> > > Nita, mom to: 18, Jon 17, 14, 12,

> 10, Christian RIP: 7/16/03-8/22/04, 6, Isaac 3 and > , born 3/1/11> http://momof6.dotphoto.com for possibly current pictures and

> http://nitasspot.blogspot.com NitaSews on etsy.com> If you have melted chocolate on your hands, you're eating it

> too slowly!> > ..... when did the chicken pox sudednly become this deathly > thing ? > > > > > > > > > > >

[Guest guest]

But to go ahead and vax for mumps b/c one person knew one person? So far that’s the only thing… so it’s not the end of the world either being sterile. I’d rather be sterile and alive and healthy vs. maimed by vaccines, live in a world of hell just b/c fear overruled common sense. They want you to discount the “rare side effects” like oh, death and autism..but on the RARE side effect mumps can cause sterility, absolutely! Load up the shot?! That doesn’t make sense. Look at guardasil. So many bad reactions. Perfectly healthy kids are now paralyzed. Some dead. This is health? To “prevent” a disease that is treatable? That is rare? How many were killed and maimed just to prevent a few from getting it?..yeah those that are dead sure won’t be getting HPV now. Anyway.. no don’t think of it in a step in the wrong direction, keep looking at it and saying why? Why is it OK to be scared about sterility from a disease that is rare and not be scared about possible vaccine reactions? They counter with not every vaccine will cause damage… OK. So how can they be certain someone will die of mumps or get sterile from mumps? You see? They want to have their cake and frosting and eat it too. Flu shot: OH but it would have been so much worse a case if you hadn’t had the flu shot..to your “I got the flu shot and I got the flu anyway!”… how can they tell the future like that? then when an adverse reaction occurs they say ‘well not every vaccine is 100% effective all the time”..so they admit vaccines fail but they can’t admit vaccines can cause serious damage. Do you see how they contradict themselves? Even dr sears in his book ‘the vaccine guide’ Just to think though. Your sweet little baby that you worked so hard to get here healthy, growing inside your tummy for 9 months. You watched what you ate, you exercised, you rested, you avoided foods or sweets or alcohol or smoking..whatever you did to have a healthy baby… inside of 4 hours outside the womb, fresh from heaven, fresh from the womb you’re going to inject: formaldehyde, ABX (baby is not sick), foreign animal DNA, mercury, aluminum.. and that sweet baby is not even a day old. For a disease that has as its at-risk person someone who does drugs or someone who is promiscuous. Tell me, your little baby is going to march out of the hospital and go do drugs? Go find someone on the street and have sex? Really?!!! If you’re at risk then you take precautions. To me, even if I were like that, I certainly would still not do the vaccine. Though if I’m out of mind with drugs then obviously I’m out of my mind and probably not thinking critically about the baby anyway. They start doing vaccines to indoctrinate parents. If everyone on the planet never took a baby in for their first well visit and never did vaccines til say 2 or 3… there would be a lot more unvaxxed people. But it gets them young. It gets them while their personality is still developing and it gets you into the rut of ‘well baby visits’ which are nothing short of ‘let’s train mom to bring in a healthy kid and let’s make that kid UNhealthy so mom brings back the baby”… it’s called in marketing a “ continued revenue stream” and at its heart are the unhealthy. It creates a cycle of abuse on the body and spirit. Going to the doctor does not make you healthy. They are not paid if everyone is healthy. I read in my TCM book how in the back woods of china in the old days that the traveling doctor would only find hospitality and lodging if everyone were healthy. That was the doctors job: to get you well. we’re the opposite. A waiting room is not going to fill with healthy people. They were not doing their job if everyone were sick. A totally different mindset. I think the binder idea is excellent. Also, take sheri’s class. I’m big on give a NO but give an alternative. If we take away the doctor for you and you get sick? What then? Well, here’s the answer. You have herbal, you have homeopathy, you have TCM (traditional chinese medicine), you have reiki, you have bush flower essences.. you have a LOT at your disposal and they’re all designed to work with the body as a whole. Seek out a midwife. Seek out home birth. Seek out a holistic doctor or a chiropractor. Seek out knowledge. Sheri has a childhood diseases class, a beginning homeoaphty class, a vaccine dangers class. Take them. keep the notes, the classes, the files.. keep it all. back it up. Have it to reference. Nita, mom to: 18, Jon 17, 14, 12, 10, Christian RIP: 7/16/03-8/22/04, 6, Isaac 3 and , born 3/1/11http://momof6.dotphoto.com for possibly current pictures and http://nitasspot.blogspot.comSomething for everyone: http://www.nitas-things.comIf you have melted chocolate on your hands, you're eating it too slowly! From: i think i will start a binder of some kind to collect articles and such. wait, so that’s kind of scary taht you know someone that that hapepned to.... (in other words, i would think its a vote in teh wrong direction.)

[Guest guest]

Anedotal evidence; us nonvaxers are always accused of that. ~ Maureen R. Gradvohl ~ From: Venita Garner <nitagarner@...> Vaccinations Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2011 5:12 PM Subject: RE: Re: So many questions about Vaccination!!

But to go ahead and vax for mumps b/c one person knew one person? So far that’s the only thing… so it’s not the end of the world either being sterile. I’d rather be sterile and alive and healthy vs. maimed by vaccines, live in a world of hell just b/c fear overruled common sense. They want you to discount the “rare side effects†like oh, death and autism..but on the RARE side effect mumps can cause sterility, absolutely! Load up the shot?! That doesn’t make sense.

Look at guardasil. So many bad reactions. Perfectly healthy kids are now paralyzed. Some dead. This is health? To “prevent†a disease that is treatable? That is rare? How many were killed and maimed just to prevent a few from getting it?..yeah those that are dead sure won’t be getting HPV now. Anyway.. no don’t think of it in a step in the wrong direction, keep looking at it and saying why? Why is it OK to be scared about sterility from a disease that is rare and not be scared about possible vaccine reactions? They counter with not every vaccine will cause damage… OK. So how can they be certain someone will die of mumps or get sterile from mumps?

You see? They want to have their cake and frosting and eat it too. Flu shot: OH but it would have been so much worse a case if you hadn’t had the flu shot..to your “I got the flu shot and I got the flu anyway!â€â€¦ how can they tell the future like that? then when an adverse reaction occurs they say ‘well not every vaccine is 100% effective all the timeâ€..so they admit vaccines fail but they can’t admit vaccines can cause serious damage. Do you see how they contradict themselves? Even dr sears in his book ‘the vaccine guide’ Just to think though. Your sweet little baby that you worked so hard to get here healthy, growing inside your tummy for 9 months. You watched what you ate, you exercised, you rested, you avoided foods or sweets or alcohol or smoking..whatever you did to have a healthy baby… inside of 4 hours outside the womb, fresh from heaven, fresh from the womb you’re going to inject: formaldehyde, ABX (baby is not sick), foreign animal DNA, mercury, aluminum.. and that sweet baby is not even a day old. For a disease that has as its at-risk person someone who does drugs or someone who is promiscuous. Tell me, your little baby is going to march out of the hospital and go do drugs? Go find someone on the street and have sex? Really?!!! If you’re at risk then you take precautions.

To me, even if I were like that, I certainly would still not do the vaccine. Though if I’m out of mind with drugs then obviously I’m out of my mind and probably not thinking critically about the baby anyway. They start doing vaccines to indoctrinate parents. If everyone on the planet never took a baby in for their first well visit and never did vaccines til say 2 or 3… there would be a lot more unvaxxed people. But it gets them young. It gets them while their personality is still developing and it gets you into the rut of ‘well baby visits’ which are nothing short of ‘let’s train mom to bring in a healthy kid and let’s make that kid UNhealthy so mom brings back the babyâ€â€¦ it’s called in marketing a “ continued revenue stream†and at

its heart are the unhealthy. It creates a cycle of abuse on the body and spirit. Going to the doctor does not make you healthy. They are not paid if everyone is healthy. I read in my TCM book how in the back woods of china in the old days that the traveling doctor would only find hospitality and lodging if everyone were healthy. That was the doctors job: to get you well. we’re the opposite. A waiting room is not going to fill with healthy people. They were not doing their job if everyone were sick. A totally different mindset. I think the binder idea is excellent.

Also, take sheri’s class. I’m big on give a NO but give an alternative. If we take away the doctor for you and you get sick? What then? Well, here’s the answer. You have herbal, you have homeopathy, you have TCM (traditional chinese medicine), you have reiki, you have bush flower essences.. you have a LOT at your disposal and they’re all designed to work with the body as a whole. Seek out a midwife. Seek out home birth. Seek out a holistic doctor or a chiropractor. Seek out knowledge. Sheri has a childhood diseases class, a beginning homeoaphty class, a vaccine dangers class. Take them. keep the notes, the classes, the files.. keep it all. back it up. Have it to reference. Nita, mom to: 18, Jon 17, 14, 12, 10, Christian RIP: 7/16/03-8/22/04, 6, Isaac 3 and , born 3/1/11http://momof6.dotphoto.com for possibly current pictures and http://nitasspot.blogspot.comSomething for

everyone: http://www.nitas-things.comIf you have melted chocolate on your hands, you're eating it too slowly! From: i think i will start a binder of some kind to collect articles and such. wait, so that’s kind of scary taht you know someone that that hapepned to.... (in other words, i would think its a vote in teh wrong

direction.)

[Guest guest]

I remember at 2 getting her iron blood work draw and she had to be papoosed and they did some shots… she hadn’t had any and dh was still very much ‘if you are going to harm my children like that I’ll take them down now’..so we were ‘catching up’.. poor kid. Unpoisoned til then. They’re like ‘why don’t you come out/ it’s harder on them when they can see you and can’t have you”.. and I remember asking ‘are you sure this is really necessary?’.. like asking the fox to guard the henhouse.. duh.but I didn’t know about homeopathy then and I just had barely been introduced to no vaxxes as being bad. I was already on the no vaxxing bandwagon but mostly just b/c I am forgetful and didn’t call to make the doctor’s app’ts. Now of course 12 years later, is a whole nother ball of wax. When peter was born I was on the fence (at least that is what I told my dh)..and taught him about the newborn one. At signing paperwork he asked me why I wasn’t signing ok for that and the nurse left the room and I told him b/c it’s a disease that is for the drug users and promiscuous. We don’t need it and he agreed..but even still. He’s still vaccine happy. :::long drawn out sigh::: Nita, mom to: 18, Jon 17, 14, 12, 10, Christian RIP: 7/16/03-8/22/04, 6, Isaac 3 and , born 3/1/11http://momof6.dotphoto.com for possibly current pictures and http://nitasspot.blogspot.comSomething for everyone: http://www.nitas-things.comIf you have melted chocolate on your hands, you're eating it too slowly! I know, I know - don't even get me started!> How awful, abandoning your child because it's too hard on you to watch. What must be going through that child's mind?? They could at least be there and keep their eyes shut!