Re: Nursing school forcing me to get the flu vaccine.

September 20, 2009

Lol, I think you are still seeing it backwards, not everyone has the luxury of

foreign travel. But if they do, they can choose where to go & whether or not to

vaccinate. I recently asked my husband what he would do if the airline industry

or the gov suddenly required vax. His answer- he'd hire a lawyer! No one can

force vaccination, there are always options. Can't afford a lawyer? Make a bold

and loud statement by changing careers. A job assignment? Switch with someone

who believes in vax.

Out of curiousity, anyone know of any penalties for forged vax records? I would

think with so many new requirents that forged vax records would be big business.

Toni Moslemi

Mom to Cyrus 1991, Darius 1998, Remington Rose 2004 &

Willow 3/21/09

Sent from my iPhone

Nmidaughterseyes@...

On Sep 20, 2009, at 4:14 PM, " trying2bnatural " <c68libra@...> wrote:

I am sorry, I stand corrected - there is only one required vaccination for

travel, the rest are " recommended " :

Required Vaccinations

The only vaccine required by International Health Regulations is yellow fever

vaccination for travel to certain countries in sub-Saharan Africa and tropical

South America. Meningococcal vaccination is required by the government of Saudi

Arabia for annual travel during the Hajj.

>

> The other issue is, not all of us have the luxury of avoiding vaccinations -

for instance, if you travel to other countries, then you have to get those

vaccinations.

>

September 20, 2009

Actually what you referenced (well not actually since you didn't provide a link)

shows two vaccines which are required, not one.

Plus, and this is very important because, just as schools leave out any mention

of exemptions when making claims about requirements for school entry,

information about exemptions should be included when making statements about

vaccines required for travel:

(http://wwwnc.cdc.gov/travel/yellowbook/2010/chapter-2/yellow-fever.aspx)

" Exemption from Vaccination and Waiver Letters

Some countries do not require an ICVP for infants younger than a certain age

(e.g., <6 months, <9 months, or <1 year of age, depending on the country). Age

requirements for vaccination for individual countries can be found in the Yellow

Fever Vaccine Requirements and Recommendations section in this chapter.

For medical contraindications, a physician who has decided to issue a waiver

should fill out and sign the Medical Contraindications to Vaccination section of

the ICVP (Figure 2-2). The physician should also—

Give the traveler a signed and dated exemption letter on the physician’s

letterhead stationery, clearly stating the contraindications to vaccination and

bearing the stamp used by the yellow fever vaccination centers to validate the

ICVP.

Inform the traveler of any increased risk of yellow fever infection associated

with nonvaccination and how to minimize this risk by using mosquito protection

measures.

Reasons other than medical contraindications are not acceptable for exemption

from vaccination.

The traveler should be advised that issuance of a waiver does not guarantee its

acceptance by the destination country. On arrival at the destination, the

traveler may be faced with quarantine, refusal of entry, or vaccination on site.

To potentially improve the likelihood of acceptance of a waiver upon arrival at

the destination country, the provider can suggest that the traveler take the

following additional measures before initiating travel:

Obtain specific and authoritative advice from the embassy or consulate of the

country or countries he or she plans to visit.

Request documentation of requirements for waivers from embassies or consulates

and retain these along with the completed Medical Contraindication to

Vaccination section of the ICVP. "

And if you read more on this site, you will also see that additional

information, including a list of countries which require the vaccine for entry

if you have been to a country " with risk of yellow fever transmission”AND an

interesting third option:

" Travelers who arrive in a country with a yellow fever vaccination entry

requirement without proof of yellow fever vaccination may be quarantined up to 6

days. "

So, vaccinate, present a medical exemption or be quarantined. NOT a simple

" vaccines are required " or not.

Winnie

Re: Nursing school forcing me to get the flu vaccine.

Vaccinations

> I am sorry, I stand corrected - there is only one required

> vaccination for travel, the rest are " recommended " :

>

> Required Vaccinations

>

> The only vaccine required by International Health Regulations is

> yellow fever vaccination for travel to certain countries in sub-

> Saharan Africa and tropical South America. Meningococcal

> vaccination is required by the government of Saudi Arabia for

> annual travel during the Hajj.

>

> >

> > The other issue is, not all of us have the luxury of avoiding

> vaccinations - for instance, if you travel to other countries,

> then you have to get those vaccinations.

> >

>

September 20, 2009

I am educating myself and simply am presenting the devil's advocate position and

am interested to see the reactions! I am also educating myself, I thought, by

being a part of this group. But, I was warned it was " out there " by another

holistic mother and I can see why. A lot of the " education " I see on here is

not necessarily helpful to an educated person, such as myself. Rather, many use

the same scare tactics that your opponents do. It is not typically a helpful

strategy, rather a turn-off.

All I can do is give feedback and my opinion. You can give yours. I will admit

if I have misintrepreted or otherwise.

I have not vaccinated my 15 mth dd. I do not plan to. But, many thousands and

millions of people have vaccinated and a majority have done " okay " - those are

the facts and you cannot argue with those. I am not saying that vaccinations

are not harmful or do not contain harmful materials but I hear a lot of people

saying things about medical professionals that are not true and sound rather

" Rush Limbaugh-ish " in their reviews and opinions. Many of you may have a valid

reason for being pissed off at the medical community but the comments I have

read are sophomoric and extreme. It isn't convincing me or education me. I

don't need convincing, but if that is what you are trying to do - some of you -

may want to consider your approach.

Also, Dr. Mercola is a rather respected MD who has carried out tons of research

and literature reviews on vaccinations, alternative and natural medicine and

otherwise. It was his link that said if you have to get vaccinated there is a

way to try to treat yourself after the vaccination. There are also other

persons trying to give such advice.

I plan to keep myself in the group a bit longer to see what I can learn and I

appreciate the dialogue.

>

> Methinks that trying2bnatural may need to educate him/herself a bit.

> It is great to participate in these discussions, but before giving

> advice, one needs to know that there is accurate information behind it.

>

September 20, 2009

I often wonder about people who are working in the medical profession and

are ant-vax. Are you not required to give vax, and if you do does that not

make for a problem on conscience.

September 21, 2009

Hi

Lets take on the point about people who get vaccinated and do okay. I don't like

to assume anything, but I will assume you mean they were not harmed in any way.

That may be true. You never know if slight damage has been done or not. If a

child was of a certain intelligence, how could one know if he/she wouldn't have

been a little higher on the intelligence scale?

However if the child is not damaged at all, that's good, but it doesn't mean the

child was prevented from getting any disease. The whole vaccination scheme is

based on conclusions not proof.

It works like this. You take the polio vaccine. You don't get polio. Therefore

you didn't get polio because of the vaccine. There is absolutely no proof of

that conclusion.

Then there were the 40 million kids like me back in 1954 who NEVER took a polio

vaccine and never got polio.

I don't argue with anybody about their conclusions. I just put my money where my

mouth is.

I will pay anyone 5,000.00 for proof that any vaccine ever prevented any

disease.

I am not sure what you say people are saying about Allopaths that are not true,

but as far as I am concerned, outside of trauma and crises the Allopaths are not

only useless but dangerous. They kill about three or four hundred thousand

people every year. They call it iatrogenics.

That's because they treat symptoms and not causes. And that's because they are

ignorant of the cause of disease and health. What amazes me is how so many

people build their disease after many years of a wrong lifestyle and than run to

an Allopath to be given a drug which they foolishly believe will restore them to

health.

I am sorry to hear you state that people on this list are immature and extreme.

Perhaps you have not had a child ruined for life or die, and the family torn

apart because of the barbaric practice of blood poisoning. If you did I am sure

you would be singing a different tune.

In my personal experience it is usually the formally educated that lack clear

thinking and intelligence.

They are usually brainwashed. You have probably ran into a few yourself. You

know the person who is trying to think of an answer and the Rolodex is revolving

around to find the page or chapter of their school book to parrot an answer.

As far as being pissed off at the medical profession, I can't speak for anyone

else, but I have no problem admitting that. I think you would be pissed off if

they killed your child, wouldn't you?

I see nothing extreme about my view. one day this profession will go down as the

most ignorant group of all professions. Hopefully a few will rot in jail.

Any person, no matter who, that advocates a person to take a poison into their

baby's body and says there is a way to treat or prevent damage is either not

thinking or doesn't understand what makes a body healthy and what makes a body

sick.

Good luck in your search for truth.

Jim O'

Founder of S.I.N.B.A.D.

Shots in body's are dangerous

Healthologist . This word is not in the dictionary. That's because Allopaths

study disease in order to explain health. If that makes no sense, it is typical

of the Allopathic profession.

Graduated from the School of Hard Knocks

Certified in CS not BS

________________________________

From: trying2bnatural <c68libra@...>

Vaccinations

Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 10:39:35 PM

Subject: Re: Nursing school forcing me to get the flu vaccine.

I am educating myself and simply am presenting the devil's advocate position and

am interested to see the reactions! I am also educating myself, I thought, by

being a part of this group. But, I was warned it was " out there " by another

holistic mother and I can see why. A lot of the " education " I see on here is not

necessarily helpful to an educated person, such as myself. Rather, many use the

same scare tactics that your opponents do. It is not typically a helpful

strategy, rather a turn-off.

All I can do is give feedback and my opinion. You can give yours. I will admit

if I have misintrepreted or otherwise.

I have not vaccinated my 15 mth dd. I do not plan to. But, many thousands and

millions of people have vaccinated and a majority have done " okay " - those are

the facts and you cannot argue with those. I am not saying that vaccinations are

not harmful or do not contain harmful materials but I hear a lot of people

saying things about medical professionals that are not true and sound rather

" Rush Limbaugh-ish " in their reviews and opinions. Many of you may have a valid

reason for being pissed off at the medical community but the comments I have

read are sophomoric and extreme. It isn't convincing me or education me. I don't

need convincing, but if that is what you are trying to do - some of you - may

want to consider your approach.

Also, Dr. Mercola is a rather respected MD who has carried out tons of research

and literature reviews on vaccinations, alternative and natural medicine and

otherwise. It was his link that said if you have to get vaccinated there is a

way to try to treat yourself after the vaccination. There are also other persons

trying to give such advice.

I plan to keep myself in the group a bit longer to see what I can learn and I

appreciate the dialogue.

>

> Methinks that trying2bnatural may need to educate him/herself a bit.

> It is great to participate in these discussions, but before giving

> advice, one needs to know that there is accurate information behind it.

>

September 21, 2009

At 12:41 AM 9/21/2009, you wrote:

>I often wonder about people who are working in the medical profession and

>are ant-vax. Are you not required to give vax, and if you do does that not

>make for a problem on conscience.

exactly

Once I realized the danger, I worked in areas where I didn't have to

give a vaccine and worked in areas I could justify. A pediatric ICU

was my the last in-hospital place I worked. Children who drown or

are in car accidents, for example don't have much other choice for

help for such trauma (except homeopathy in addition could help greatly)

Sheri

Sheri Nakken, R.N., MA, Hahnemannian Homeopath

Vaccination Information & Choice Network, Washington State, USA

Vaccines - http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccine.htm or

http://www.wellwithin1.com/vaccine.htm

Vaccine Dangers, Childhood Disease Classes & Homeopathy Online/email

courses - next classes start September 30 & October 1

http://www.wellwithin1.com/vaccineclass.htm or

http://www.wellwithin1.com/homeo.htm

September 21, 2009

First of all, I'm glad that you've decided not to vaccinate your

child; that tells me you aren't all " devil's advocate " . However, It

floors me that you would take such a nonchalant attitude toward

vaccination if you know ANYTHING about vaccination - which you must,

since you have made the choice you've made. Giving the advice

basically to just shut up and take the vaccine if you want to stay in

the medical field (not your words, but that's what came thorough as

the attitude in your post) is irresponsible, at best. You're correct,

Dr. Mercola is a very respected doctor, and he does NOT approach the

subject of vaccination with that same nonchalant attitude. In fact,

Dr. Mercola shouts " Don't do it! Don't do it! " over and over.

However, there is a huge fear that the government is going to be

forcing this year's flu vaccine on either certain subsets of the

population, or on the population as a whole. It's already happening

with " healthcare " workers in the State of New York - they are having

to fight tooth-and-nail to exercise their right to choose. That is

why Dr. Mercola wrote his article in the first place. He hasn't

suddenly developed the attitude " Oh, well, vaccinate now and worry

about the consequences later. It's no big deal. " , I promise you. His

article does give some things you can try if you are forced to take

the vaccination, but he will still be one of the first in line to tell

you it's better if you do NOT take the vaccine, because YOU JUST DON'T

KNOW how that vaccine is going to affect any given individual.

Telling someone to roll up their sleeve and take the vaccine because

" You're not gonna die " , well... you don't know that for a fact, and

wouldn't you feel like a complete heel if someone took your advice

specifically and then wound up dead, or partially or fully paralyzed,

or brain damaged, or blind? Those are just SOME of the side effects

that can happen with ANY vaccine.

You can say the majority of the population is unharmed by vaccines,

but that's heresy... that is NOT fact. The FACT is, we don't know.

We don't know if a person was harmed on a level that is undetectable,

or if they will develop complications years from now stemming from

that or any other vaccine they may have received. The studies have

never been done. To think that you can know that without a doubt is

naive and " sophomoric " , if you will.

I don't think anyone here will deny that there isn't a place in our

society for the allopathic model. I, for one, am entrenched in it

right now with my son's severe allergies and asthma. I work my A$$

off every single hour of every single day to keep him as far from the

allopaths as I can and yet we still end up in emergency situations

that require the help of an allopath. Am I grateful to have the

allopath system to bring my son out of his crises and save his life?

You bet I am! And I don't hesitate for even a second to use it when

it's needed. What we as a group are saying is that the allopathic

model is based on disease and sickness - that's all they know. They

don't know what creates (or causes) true health. To think that you

can put a chemical, drug, heavy metal or " killed disease " into a body

and expect it to be more healthy than when you started is barbaric and

old world. That is medicine of the past, and should have been tabled

long ago. But because someone somewhere stands to make a buck or two

off our diseased states and dependent attitudes on drugs, vaccines and

others to make us better, the ludicrous practice continues.

For instance, why is the government telling pregnant women to take the

UNTESTED H1N1 flu vaccine as soon as it comes out, rather than boost

their immunity naturally with adequate sunlight, adequate sleep, and

proper diet? Because nobody makes any money from telling a woman to

go hang out in the sun for a few hours and soak up the rays, that why.

They'd rather you expose your baby to Thimerosal (but DON'T eat that

tuna!!!). You can argue that there are " thimerosal-free " versions of

the vaccine that will be made available, but I was told pointblank by

a CDC official when I attended the H1N1 Public Engagement Meeting here

in Denver, CO, that they will not " offer " the thimerosal-free version

to ANYBODY - pregnant woman or child - because they don't have that

much available. A person will have to know to request the

single-dose, thimerosal-free version on their own... and even then

there is no guarantee that every venue doling out the vaccine will

have it on hand to give.

The bottom line is, the CDC, the FDA and government don't care about

your health or mine, or the health of my unborn baby or yours, they

only care about their bottom line and how much vaccine they can get

out to the population is as little time as possible. I know this

because I took the time to approach and talk with a CDC official

face-to-face. I saw their attitude and watched as they danced around

hard-hitting questions that they should have been prepared to answer

but couldn't because they would be admitting how much they don't care

about our health. If you choose to believe differently, so be it.

I'm just calling a spade a spade.

PS: I always find it funny that is the ones that don't use their real

names that come on this list and try to play " devil's advocate " , and

call the rest of us out. If you're so sure of your stance, why hide?

On Sun, Sep 20, 2009 at 9:39 PM, trying2bnatural <c68libra@...> wrote:

>

> I am educating myself and simply am presenting the devil's advocate position

and am interested to see the reactions! I am also educating myself, I thought,

by being a part of this group. But, I was warned it was " out there " by another

holistic mother and I can see why. A lot of the " education " I see on here is not

necessarily helpful to an educated person, such as myself. Rather, many use the

same scare tactics that your opponents do. It is not typically a helpful

strategy, rather a turn-off.

>

> All I can do is give feedback and my opinion. You can give yours. I will admit

if I have misintrepreted or otherwise.

>

> I have not vaccinated my 15 mth dd. I do not plan to. But, many thousands and