Re: What training do docs get on vax?

[Guest guest]

At 03:26 PM 9/15/2008, you wrote:

>I guess the whole immunity question is up in the air with me, although in

>reviewing my cellular immunology, I can see how limited exposure to

>just certain

> " pieces " of the organism would likely not induce complete immunity.

I will share some info with you on antibody titers after vaccines NOT

meaning immunity.

Immunity only comes from full activation of all aspects of immune system

>I think

>that in certain cases, it's ok, especially if the disease in question is

>absolutely horrible in most cases (like smallpox and polio).

You will learn more in my classes but can start with

http://www.wellwithin1.com/polio.htm

to learn more about polio - what we weren't taught in school

it was never proven to be infectious and the vaccine did not decrease

cases of polio

and

http://www.wellwithin1.com/smallpox.htm

vaccine never got rid of smallpox

homeopathy worked nicely with it

wherever the vaccine went, smallpox increased

and more

> On the other hand to

>think we can just eliminate all organisms that cause illness is foolish.

>There is a reason our immune system developed as it has and to

>alter it to such

>a degree as we are doing now is dangerous to the population as a whole. I

>have always said " germs strengthen the immune system " !!! ]

Certainly

>And I truly believe

>that - for example I was on 3 immunosuppressant drugs over the past

>winter with

>a pretty puny white cell count, and the only thing that happened was that I

>caught Strep throat twice. And I saw plenty of influenza and the usual

>conglomeration of illnesses that occur in the winter. I attribute

>my luck there to

>the fact that I have been exposed to most of this junk for my entire life.

Well that may be.

But also from a homeopathic perspective - sometimes we are too sick

to produce symptoms of something acute - the body is busy dealing

with the deeper, stronger, chronic issue.

Hope what I have sent/will send might spark some interest

Sheri

> My

>only strategy was to wash my hands good before and after each patient, and

>occasionally down a bag of echinacea/zinc losenges.

>

>Even worse is the fact that the vaccines are not being developed on entirely

>benevolent principles, and the scientific method is not being applied. There

>are a lot of assumptions that are being made about safety and efficacy and

>long term problems. You know what happens when you " assume " something!

>What I would really like to see, and I don't know if this has ever been

>done....is to examine the antibody complexes of someone who had, say, wild

>measles with someone who had the vaccine. But like the whole breast

>milk/formula

>controversy, there are likely things that occur naturally that

>cannot possibly

>be mimicked in the laboratory.

>I'm not opposed to changing my opinion about the immunity issue. I am still

>looking for a direct comparison so I can make sense of it.

>

>G

>

>

>In a message dated 9/15/2008 8:47:55 A.M. Central Daylight Time,

>mum2mishka@... writes:

>

>

>

>

>HI Gayl, welcome to the list. It's good to see a doctor on the right side

>of the fence!! LOL!

>

>Can I ask you a question please? Do you believe in/accept the *concept* of

>vaccination, or is it the safety aspect that leads you to question them? If

>all vaccines had no dangerous/questionaall vaccines had no dangerous/que

>that they were a good thing to have? Do you feel they actually *do* what

>they are marketed to do - i.e., prevent illness?

>

>Sue x

>

>-------Original Message--------

>

>From: _drgglow@..._ (mailto:drgglow@...)

>Date: 15/09/2008 8:52:12 PM

>_Vaccinations@VaccinationsVac_ (mailto:Vaccinations )

>Subject: Re: Re: What training do docs get on vax?

>

>I think that definitely eradicating one type of bacteria opens the door for

>others to take it's place. " Nature abhors a vacuum " .

>That is also my fear that with more and more kids being vaccinated against

> " everything " " everything " <WBR>, we are opening a Pandora's box of opportunisti

>and

>also helping to create new strains that are more virulent and vaccine

>resistant. In an article I found about the 23a strain of pneumococcus, the

>ending

>sentence was about altering the vaccine to cover this strain as well. The

>only

>thing I can say about that is " duh, what do you think will happen next when

>you do that? "

>

>G

>

>

>

>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>**************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog,

>plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com.

>(http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014)

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Just curious.

Under what situatations do you consider anti(against) biotics (life)

helpful? And exactly what do they do to help the human body

restore itself to a healthy state?

 

Jim

Re: Re: What training do docs get on vax?

Well......I guess I'm too much of an allopath to agree with you

there......although in some cases antibiotics are definitely not your friend. I

still

think that when used appropriately (that is not for every sneeze, sniffle, cough

and temp above 99F) antibiotics can be helpful.

G

In a message dated 9/14/2008 11:12:48 P.M. Central Daylight Time,

vidamarinomsn (DOT) com writes:

Ok, my thought is that so many different types of bacteria are always

present in all people and when we get sick we just look for one and pin

the blame on that one. The way I see that it could have happened is

that she came in with an ear infection and the initial antibiotics made

her more ill, then perhaps the even stronger antibiotics made her even

more so.

I don't think antibiotics are as safe as people see them and perhaps,

just like with vaccines, there are many unreported and unknown severe

reactions to them.

> >

> >Continued to get worse over a period of days despite

> > switching to stronger antibiotics. She came back seizing and was

> flown to the

> > regional pediatric intensive care facility. So pretty sure the ear

> infection led to

> > the meningitis. She did have her other " routine " 2, 4,and 6 month

> > immunizations - Pediarix and Hib

> >

>

************ **Psssst. ..Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog,

plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com.

(http://www.stylelis t.com/trends? ncid=aolsty00050 000000014)

[Guest guest]

At 04:22 PM 9/15/2008, you wrote:

>Exactly......ask anyone in our age group and I'm sure very few ever knew or

>heard of someone having meningitis. The case I spoke about was the

>second one

>I have ever seen in my life. The first one being in 1993 in Birmingham

>Alabama. It doesn't happen very often. I think it's something like

>44/100,000

>with infants comprising a much smaller number than that, and keeping in mind

>this includes people who are sick, have AIDS, have cancer, etc, etc.

>So the rate

>of occurrence for normal healthy folks is very low.

>

>G

and for unvaccinated.

Rarely saw it in the 70's when I first worked peds - before SO MANY vaccines

Sheri

--------------------------------------------------------

Sheri Nakken, former R.N., MA, Hahnemannian Homeopath

Vaccination Information & Choice Network, Nevada City CA & Wales UK

Vaccines - http://www.wellwithin1.com/vaccine.htm

Vaccine Dangers & Homeopathy Online/email courses - next classes Sept 10, 2008

[Guest guest]

Its called the germ theory not the germ fact.

The word virus is from the latin. It means poison.

Using that proper definition, it all makes sense.

The Allopaths are just putting some kind of poison in you,

whether its a drug or vaccine.

 

Jim

Re: What training do docs get on vax?

It's just that the more I research, the more I do not believe in

viruses. Seems every sickness today is blamed on some kind of virus

and eventually there is a vaccine. I know bacteria exist, but not too

sure on the extent of the harm. I'm just wondering, has it actually

been proven that bacteria or a virus is the absolute sole cause of

meningitis or any other sickness? Plus, I know a virus has never been

isolated.

Anyways, I was thinking about it this morning and I remembered

something interesting. I used to suffer from constant ear infections

as a child (yes, I was vaccinated,) and always I took antibiotics and

they cleared up and then came back. When I got a little older they

cleared up on their own for the most part, but haven't had one since my

teenage years. My point is, that whatever doctor I used to see would

tell me that the ear infection was caused by water in the ear and that

was it, but eventually, sometime in the late 80s, the doctors would say

no, water has nothing to do with it, ear infections are caused by

viruses.

So I think somewhere in that time viruses got popularized and they

became a blame for most things.

Now I'm pretty sure my ear infections were caused by the fact that I

would drink nothing but soda, regular or diet, and we ate a ton of

margaine (doctor suggested it, of course,) and my diet was just poor

over all.

>

> Well......I guess I'm too much of an allopath to agree with you

> there......although in some cases antibiotics are definitely not your

friend. I still

> think that when used appropriately (that is not for every sneeze,

sniffle, cough

> and temp above 99F) antibiotics can be helpful.

>

> G

>

>

>

__.._,_.___

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[Guest guest]

I, too, had painful ear infections when I was little--still can feel the pain.

Since my oldest son had them, I have come to understand that the reason

antibiotics " worked " is because they tell the body " stop, we'll take over. Stop

your silly symptoms. " And then when they antis were done, the " infection " came

back. In the face of allergies, the antis appear to work against a supposed

infection so it keeps getting called that.

Then, of course, he got sicker and sicker.....

Winnie

Re: What training do docs get on vax?

Vaccinations

> It's just that the more I research, the more I do not believe in

> viruses. Seems every sickness today is blamed on some kind of

> virus

> and eventually there is a vaccine. I know bacteria exist, but

> not too

> sure on the extent of the harm. I'm just wondering, has it

> actually

> been proven that bacteria or a virus is the absolute sole cause

> of

> meningitis or any other sickness? Plus, I know a virus has

> never been

> isolated.

>

> Anyways, I was thinking about it this morning and I remembered

> something interesting. I used to suffer from constant ear

> infections

> as a child (yes, I was vaccinated,) and always I took

> antibiotics and

> they cleared up and then came back. When I got a little older

> they

> cleared up on their own for the most part, but haven't had one

> since my

> teenage years. My point is, that whatever doctor I used to see

> would

> tell me that the ear infection was caused by water in the ear

> and that

> was it, but eventually, sometime in the late 80s, the doctors

> would say

> no, water has nothing to do with it, ear infections are caused

> by

> viruses.

> So I think somewhere in that time viruses got popularized and

> they

> became a blame for most things.

>

> Now I'm pretty sure my ear infections were caused by the fact

> that I

> would drink nothing but soda, regular or diet, and we ate a ton

> of

> margaine (doctor suggested it, of course,) and my diet was just

> poor

> over all.

>

>

> >

> > Well......I guess I'm too much of an allopath to agree with

> you

> > there......although in some cases antibiotics are definitely

> not your

> friend. I still

> > think that when used appropriately (that is not for every

> sneeze,

> sniffle, cough

> > and temp above 99F) antibiotics can be helpful.

> >

> > G

> >

> >

> >

>

>

[Guest guest]

Sorry I Don't buy the I didn't know.

Every vial comes with a package insert.

There are groups like NVIC who have sent info to every

ped in the country. I have been thrown out of more Alopathic doctor's offices

then most people go to. I have personally witnessed the cover-ups and lies of

Allopaths.

 I have taken them on with challenges to prove either vaccines prevent disease

or drugs

in any way shape or form help to heal the human body.What nurses and doctors

learn early in life

is information supplied with books written by the drug companys. I quote

R.T.Trall from his book " THE TRUE HEALING ART " Page 16. " I hold these truths to

be self-evident, or at least, susceptible of positive proof and absolute

demonstration: That the doctrines and theories commonly entertained among men,

and taught in medical schools and books, and practiced by the great body of the

medical profession, and which constitute the so-called " Science of Medicine, " and

on which the popular practice of the so-called " Healing Art " is predicated, are

untrue in philosophy, absurd in science, in opposition to Nature, and in direct

conflict with every law of the vital organism; and that these are the reasons,

and the only reasons, why medical science does not progress as do all other

sciences. " He than goes on to challenge the entire profession, with no takers.

If you are here to learn about the true cause of disease and health there is a

lot of good info here. But if

you still maintain drugs and allopaths help people to get well, then you will

run into opposition. Allopaths are good in trama and crises, fix a bone or stop

the bleeding, other then that someone once said if you throw all the drugs(meds)

into the sea, it would be good for man, and bad for the fish..

Jim

Re: RE: Re: What training do docs get on vax?

So glad you have awoken.

I wonder how many more like you are out there (but keeping quiet and

under the radar)

Sheri

At 01:22 AM 9/15/2008, you wrote:

>Any doc who relies on a drug rep to keep them informed is in sad

>shape...... but no, we do not get any training regarding vaccines

>except for " this is

>what you need to give and this is when you need to give it " . We are

>not taught

>about the reactions or contraindications that you will find in the package

>inserts. There is only a half-hearted effort (I think I'm being

>generous with

>that statement) at most clinics to encourage parents to read the

>VISs and truly

>have informed consent.

>Since I got into this a few months ago I became outraged at how I have been

>misled when in everything else we're taught it's all about scientific

>principle and evidence based medicine. I'm even angrier at myself

>for falling right

>into that trap. I love giving drug reps a hard time. I am skeptical

>about most

>of what they present (except for lunch!). And yet I thought nothing of

>injecting chemicals into my patients, myself, and my own kids without really

>knowing what I was truly doing. Because someone told me that's what

>I was supposed

>to do. Ugh!!!!!

>

>G

>

>

>In a message dated 9/14/2008 1:53:16 P.M. Central Daylight Time,

>nitagarnercharter (DOT) net writes:

>

>

>

>

>Doctor's don't get any. They wanted to give peter his vaccines to " catch him

>up " when he was 6 months and had a really nasty cold. I said no. the doc

>said 'oh it's OK if they don't have a fever " I said no again. His immune

>system is already under fire. I came home. I found the package insert online

>and it said on it itself that some of his symptoms contraindicated him from

>getting the shot they insisted " was just fine " .

>

>The drug reps go in, they tell the doc to recommend this product for such

>and such.. there's too much out there that is new, too many drugs coming up

>for doctors to do much on their own. I read they depend on the drug reps to

>keep them informed.

>

>Nita (crew chief) and the crew: 15, Jon 13, 11, 9,

> 7, Christian (7/16/03 to 8/22/04), 2 and Isaac, 2/3/08

>_http://momof6. http://mohtt_ (http://momof6. dotphoto. com/)

><_http://momof6. http://mohttp_ (http://momof6. dotphoto. com/) > for not

>necessarily current pictures

>

>_http://nitasspot. http://nihtt_ (http://nitasspot. blogspot. com/)

>Learn from the mistakes of others. Trust me... you can't live long enough

>to make them all yourself.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I agree with you. Although I practice conventional medicine I integrate

herbals, alternative medicine, prayer, manipulative therapy and just about

anything if it seems to make sense with the problem at hand.

I don't know if there would have been anything that could have saved

Charlotte. She got a bad bug. There's a lot of would have, could haves, but

hindsight is 20/20. Perhaps if she had gotten a cold or two before this her

immune

system would have been stronger. Perhaps if she didn't get her other vaccines

her immune system would be stronger. Or just bad luck. Lightning strike. There

is no one philosophy or intervention that can help 100% of the time for 100%

of the people.

Antibiotics are like diet pills. Everyone wants a fast fix and they don't

want to try anything that might take some work or responsibility of their own.

G

In a message dated 9/16/2008 7:01:21 P.M. Central Daylight Time,

kdhrtd@... writes:

:

Hello,

I think conventional docs need to get together with alternative docs.

This way when either doctor is at a loss they can consult one another.

Do you think Charlotte could have been saved with help from an

alternative doctor?

I think the best thing a conventional doctor can do is get educated

and make contacts with DOs, Naturopaths, etc. Everybody needs to work

together not separately for the patients best interest!!

Correyt

>

> Have a look at these pictures of antibiotic over use! They are

graphic so have a bucket close!

> _http://www.sjsupporhttp://www.sjsuhttp://www.sjshttp:/_

(http://www.sjsupport.org/htmldata/reactionphoto_1.html)

>

>

>

> From: Vida Khan <vidamarino@vid>

> Subject: Re: What training do docs get on vax?

> _Vaccinations@VaccinationsVac_ (mailto:Vaccinations )

> Date: Sunday, September 14, 2008, 9:12 PM

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Ok, my thought is that so many different types of bacteria are always

> present in all people and when we get sick we just look for one and pin

> the blame on that one. The way I see that it could have happened is

> that she came in with an ear infection and the initial antibiotics made

> her more ill, then perhaps the even stronger antibiotics made her even

> more so.

> I don't think antibiotics are as safe as people see them and perhaps,

> just like with vaccines, there are many unreported and unknown severe

> reactions to them.

>

> > >

> > >Continued to get worse over a period of days despite

> > > switching to stronger antibiotics. She came back seizing and was

> > flown to the

> > > regional pediatric intensive care facility. So pretty sure the ear

> > infection led to

> > > the meningitis. She did have her other " routine " 2, 4,and 6 month

> > > immunizations - Pediarix and Hib

> > >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

**************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog,

plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com.

(http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014)

[Guest guest]

Jim

Of course I could explain my reasoning, but as I said, this isn't the place

for it. And I wouldn't expect you to come running over to my side of the fence

based on a message post about a philosophy that is completely different than

your own. I respect your views, even if I don't entirely agree with them.

But I won't change my mind just because you say " I'm right, why can't you see

that?? " . That's the same thing the drug companies do. So I will maintain my

skeptical thoughts about issues regarding homeopathic and allopathic medicine

until it makes sense to me to accept one theory or the other or both, for that

matter. And I will not try to impose my philosophy on any one else.

I am here to listen and learn, and hope that others on this board can

respect that.

Please consider this conversation closed.

Gayl

In a message dated 9/16/2008 7:37:09 P.M. Central Daylight Time,

jimokelly@... writes:

Gayl

You made the statement that drugs were good in some cases

and not others. Your answer is typical of an Allopathic mindset.

If you are telling others to take drugs for any reason then you ought to be

able to explain

how they work and under what circumstances you would advise them. My

philosophy is easy to explain.

It is the total oppisite of yours. But then you said you found out you were

wrong on vaccines. Isn't it possible you(your teaching) are wrong about

putting poisonous drugs into a body just as it is harmful to put poisonous

vaccines into a body. After all the cockeyed theory of the Allopathic

profession is

based on the same reasoning. Germs cause disease. Drugs kill germs that

cause disease. If the drug doesn't kill the patient than we will just say the

drug saved the patient. Germs cause disease. We will put more germs (and

poisons) into the body so the body will create antibodies to kill both the

germs we

put in the body and new germs that sneak into the body later. How can you

give up on the belief of one and still believe in the other? Personally I don't

think the subject of Health and disease is complex at all. A person builds

disease through their habits of living and thinking and eating and exercising

and fasting once in a while to clean out the

system. You are right the school you attended has set up a very complex

system. But thats just so the average person will just believe rather than

investigate to determine what the truth is. Then all the sheep can be led to

the

slaughter. Please keep in mind that this not an attack on you but the system

you have chosen to be part of.

Jim

----- Original Message ----

From: " _drgglow@..._ (mailto:drgglow@...) " <_drgglow@..._

(mailto:drgglow@...) >

_Vaccinations@VaccinationsVac_ (mailto:Vaccinations )

Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 5:27:51 PM

Subject: Re: Re: What training do docs get on vax?

Jim - This is a question that is way too long and complex to address on the

board here. We obviously subscribe to much different philosophies and I am

here to learn more about something I know little of, and not defend my own or

antangonize others' beliefs.

Gayl

Re: Re: What training do docs get on vax?

Well......I guess I'm too much of an allopath to agree with you

there......although in some cases antibiotics are definitely not your

friend. I still

think that when used appropriately (that is not for every sneeze, sniffle,

cough

and temp above 99F) antibiotics can be helpful.

G

In a message dated 9/14/2008 11:12:48 P.M. Central Daylight Time,

vidamarinomsn (DOT) com writes:

Ok, my thought is that so many different types of bacteria are always

present in all people and when we get sick we just look for one and pin

the blame on that one. The way I see that it could have happened is

that she came in with an ear infection and the initial antibiotics made

her more ill, then perhaps the even stronger antibiotics made her even

more so.

I don't think antibiotics are as safe as people see them and perhaps,

just like with vaccines, there are many unreported and unknown severe

reactions to them.

> >

> >Continued to get worse over a period of days despite

> > switching to stronger antibiotics. She came back seizing and was

> flown to the

> > regional pediatric intensive care facility. So pretty sure the ear

> infection led to

> > the meningitis. She did have her other " routine " 2, 4,and 6 month

> > immunizations - Pediarix and Hib

> >

>

************ **Psssst. ..Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion

blog,

plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com.

(_http://www.stylelis_ (http://www.stylelis/) t.com/trends?

ncid=aolsty00050 000000014)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

**************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog,

plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com.

(http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014)

[Guest guest]

Jim - This is a question that is way too long and complex to address on the

board here. We obviously subscribe to much different philosophies and I am here

to learn more about something I know little of, and not defend my own or

antangonize others' beliefs.

Gayl

Re: Re: What training do docs get on vax?

Just curious.

Under what situatations do you consider anti(against) biotics (life)

helpful? And exactly what do they do to help the human body

restore itself to a healthy state?

?

Jim

Re: Re: What training do docs get on vax?

Well......I guess I'm too much of an allopath to agree with you

there......although in some cases antibiotics are definitely not your friend. I

still

think that when used appropriately (that is not for every sneeze, sniffle, cough

and temp above 99F) antibiotics can be helpful.

G

In a message dated 9/14/2008 11:12:48 P.M. Central Daylight Time,

vidamarinomsn (DOT) com writes:

Ok, my thought is that so many different types of bacteria are always

present in all people and when we get sick we just look for one and pin

the blame on that one. The way I see that it could have happened is

that she came in with an ear infection and the initial antibiotics made

her more ill, then perhaps the even stronger antibiotics made her even

more so.

I don't think antibiotics are as safe as people see them and perhaps,

just like with vaccines, there are many unreported and unknown severe

reactions to them.

> >

> >Continued to get worse over a period of days despite

> > switching to stronger antibiotics. She came back seizing and was

> flown to the

> > regional pediatric intensive care facility. So pretty sure the ear

> infection led to

> > the meningitis. She did have her other " routine " 2, 4,and 6 month

> > immunizations - Pediarix and Hib

> >

>

************ **Psssst. ..Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog,

plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com.

(http://www.stylelis t.com/trends? ncid=aolsty00050 000000014)

[Guest guest]

:

Hello,

I think conventional docs need to get together with alternative docs.

This way when either doctor is at a loss they can consult one another.

Do you think Charlotte could have been saved with help from an

alternative doctor?

I think the best thing a conventional doctor can do is get educated

and make contacts with DOs, Naturopaths, etc. Everybody needs to work

together not separately for the patients best interest!!

Correyt

>

> Have a look at these pictures of antibiotic over use! They are

graphic so have a bucket close!

> http://www.sjsupport.org/htmldata/reactionphoto_1.html

>

>

>

> From: Vida Khan <vidamarino@...>

> Subject: Re: What training do docs get on vax?

> Vaccinations

> Date: Sunday, September 14, 2008, 9:12 PM

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Ok, my thought is that so many different types of bacteria are always

> present in all people and when we get sick we just look for one and pin

> the blame on that one. The way I see that it could have happened is

> that she came in with an ear infection and the initial antibiotics made

> her more ill, then perhaps the even stronger antibiotics made her even

> more so.

> I don't think antibiotics are as safe as people see them and perhaps,

> just like with vaccines, there are many unreported and unknown severe

> reactions to them.

>

> > >

> > >Continued to get worse over a period of days despite

> > > switching to stronger antibiotics. She came back seizing and was

> > flown to the

> > > regional pediatric intensive care facility. So pretty sure the ear

> > infection led to

> > > the meningitis. She did have her other " routine " 2, 4,and 6 month

> > > immunizations - Pediarix and Hib

> > >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

That's where faith gets one through....we can't hope to understand

it........just accept it and be grateful that she is in a better place....her

momma is

still working on that......

G

In a message dated 9/16/2008 10:55:27 P.M. Central Daylight Time,

mum2mishka@... writes:

Or maybe it was simply Charlotte's time to move on...? No drug, vaccine,

treatment or prayer would have changed that...

Sue x

-- Re: Re: What training do docs get on vax?

I agree with you. Although I practice conventional medicine I integrate

herbals, alternative medicine, prayer, manipulative therapy and just about

anything if it seems to make sense with the problem at hand.

I don't know if there would have been anything that could have saved

Charlotte. She got a bad bug. There's a lot of would have, could haves, but

hindsight is 20/20. Perhaps if she had gotten a cold or two before this her

immune

system would have been stronger. Perhaps if she didn't get her other

vaccines

her immune system would be stronger. Or just bad luck. Lightning strike.

There

is no one philosophy or intervention that can help 100% of the time for

100%

of the people.

Antibiotics are like diet pills. Everyone wants a fast fix and they don't

want to try anything that might take some work or responsibility of their

own.

G

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

**************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog,

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[Guest guest]

Gayl

You made the statement that drugs were good in some cases

and not others. Your answer is typical of an Allopathic mindset.

If you are telling others to take drugs for any reason then you ought to be able

to explain

how they work and under what circumstances you would advise them. My philosophy

is easy to explain.

It is the total oppisite of yours. But then you said you found out you were

wrong on vaccines. Isn't it possible you(your teaching) are wrong about putting

poisonous drugs into a body just as it is harmful to put poisonous vaccines into

a body. After all the  cockeyed theory of the Allopathic profession is based on

the same reasoning. Germs cause disease. Drugs kill germs that cause disease. If

the drug doesn't kill the patient than we will just say the drug saved the

patient. Germs cause disease. We will put more germs (and poisons) into the body

so the body will create antibodies to kill both the germs we put in the body and

new germs that sneak into the body later. How can you give up on the belief of

one and still believe in the other? Personally I don't think the subject of

Health and disease is complex at all. A person builds disease through their

habits of living and thinking and eating and exercising and fasting once in a

while to clean out the

system. You are right the school you attended has set up a very complex system.

But thats just so the average person will just believe rather than investigate

to determine what the truth is. Then all the sheep can be led to the slaughter.

Please keep in mind that this not an attack on you but the system you have

chosen to be part of.

Jim

Re: Re: What training do docs get on vax?

Well......I guess I'm too much of an allopath to agree with you

there......although in some cases antibiotics are definitely not your friend. I

still

think that when used appropriately (that is not for every sneeze, sniffle, cough

and temp above 99F) antibiotics can be helpful.

G

In a message dated 9/14/2008 11:12:48 P.M. Central Daylight Time,

vidamarinomsn (DOT) com writes:

Ok, my thought is that so many different types of bacteria are always

present in all people and when we get sick we just look for one and pin

the blame on that one. The way I see that it could have happened is

that she came in with an ear infection and the initial antibiotics made

her more ill, then perhaps the even stronger antibiotics made her even

more so.

I don't think antibiotics are as safe as people see them and perhaps,

just like with vaccines, there are many unreported and unknown severe

reactions to them.

> >

> >Continued to get worse over a period of days despite

> > switching to stronger antibiotics. She came back seizing and was

> flown to the

> > regional pediatric intensive care facility. So pretty sure the ear

> infection led to

> > the meningitis. She did have her other " routine " 2, 4,and 6 month

> > immunizations - Pediarix and Hib

> >

>

************ **Psssst. ..Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog,

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[Guest guest]

You are right.

I am sorry that you had to witness that situation. You did your best.

I feel for her family and for you. I am so sensitive now that I have

my own child. It pains me so to see a baby die. That is why it is so

hard to understand why we are letting the vaccines hurt our children.

Not to mention all of the chemicals we put in baby products. I don't

understand it . This country doesn't even care about the precious

children! Most people believe the products we give our children are

safe...they are not! I think this country is in denial.

I wish I could find a physician here in Charlotte, NC who is as

educated as you. I applaud you, you are a ground breaker!

Yes, the patient needs to take responsibility for their health and

the doctor needs to let that happen.

A fast fix cannot undo years of abuse. Their lifestyle needs to

change for the disease or the medicine will kill them.

correy

On Sep 16, 2008, at 10:10 PM, drgglow@... wrote:

> I agree with you. Although I practice conventional medicine I

> integrate

> herbals, alternative medicine, prayer, manipulative therapy and

> just about

> anything if it seems to make sense with the problem at hand.

> I don't know if there would have been anything that could have saved

> Charlotte. She got a bad bug. There's a lot of would have, could

> haves, but

> hindsight is 20/20. Perhaps if she had gotten a cold or two before

> this her immune

> system would have been stronger. Perhaps if she didn't get her

> other vaccines

> her immune system would be stronger. Or just bad luck. Lightning

> strike. There

> is no one philosophy or intervention that can help 100% of the time

> for 100%

> of the people.

> Antibiotics are like diet pills. Everyone wants a fast fix and they

> don't

> want to try anything that might take some work or responsibility of

> their own.

>

> G

>

>

> In a message dated 9/16/2008 7:01:21 P.M. Central Daylight Time,

> kdhrtd@... writes:

>

> :

> Hello,

>

> I think conventional docs need to get together with alternative docs.

> This way when either doctor is at a loss they can consult one another.

>

> Do you think Charlotte could have been saved with help from an

> alternative doctor?

>

> I think the best thing a conventional doctor can do is get educated

> and make contacts with DOs, Naturopaths, etc. Everybody needs to work

> together not separately for the patients best interest!!

>

> Correyt

> >

> > Have a look at these pictures of antibiotic over use! They are

> graphic so have a bucket close!

> > _http://www.sjsupporhttp://www.sjsuhttp://www.sjshttp:/_

> (http://www.sjsupport.org/htmldata/reactionphoto_1.html)

> >

> >

> >

> > From: Vida Khan <vidamarino@vid>

> > Subject: Re: What training do docs get on vax?

> > _Vaccinations@VaccinationsVac_

> (mailto:Vaccinations )

> > Date: Sunday, September 14, 2008, 9:12 PM

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Ok, my thought is that so many different types of bacteria are

> always

> > present in all people and when we get sick we just look for one

> and pin

> > the blame on that one. The way I see that it could have happened is

> > that she came in with an ear infection and the initial

> antibiotics made

> > her more ill, then perhaps the even stronger antibiotics made her

> even

> > more so.

> > I don't think antibiotics are as safe as people see them and

> perhaps,

> > just like with vaccines, there are many unreported and unknown

> severe

> > reactions to them.

> >

> > > >

> > > >Continued to get worse over a period of days despite

> > > > switching to stronger antibiotics. She came back seizing and was

> > > flown to the

> > > > regional pediatric intensive care facility. So pretty sure

> the ear

> > > infection led to

> > > > the meningitis. She did have her other " routine " 2, 4,and 6

> month

> > > > immunizations - Pediarix and Hib

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Or maybe it was simply Charlotte's time to move on...? No drug, vaccine,

treatment or prayer would have changed that...

Sue x

-- Re: Re: What training do docs get on vax?

I agree with you. Although I practice conventional medicine I integrate

herbals, alternative medicine, prayer, manipulative therapy and just about

anything if it seems to make sense with the problem at hand.

I don't know if there would have been anything that could have saved

Charlotte. She got a bad bug. There's a lot of would have, could haves, but

hindsight is 20/20. Perhaps if she had gotten a cold or two before this her

immune

system would have been stronger. Perhaps if she didn't get her other

vaccines

her immune system would be stronger. Or just bad luck. Lightning strike.

There

is no one philosophy or intervention that can help 100% of the time for

100%

of the people.

Antibiotics are like diet pills. Everyone wants a fast fix and they don't

want to try anything that might take some work or responsibility of their

own.

G

[Guest guest]

Gayle, did the parents blame you at all? Since you talked them out of

Prevnar, even though it was an uncovered strain. I'm just wondering,

since most greiving parents usually need someone to blame.

>

> That's where faith gets one through....we can't hope to understand

> it........just accept it and be grateful that she is in a better

place....her momma is

> still working on that......

>

> G

>

>

[Guest guest]

No, Charlotte's parents are a couple of the nicest people you could ever

know. I was prepared for some of that, but it never became an issue. I think I

had more of an issue with that because at first, before I knew the strain, I

felt like I had betrayed their trust. I gave them my opinion and they followed

it. They are just trying to process the whole thing and accept that it was

God's will, even if we don't understand why.

G

In a message dated 9/16/2008 11:27:45 P.M. Central Daylight Time,

vidamarino@... writes:

Gayle, did the parents blame you at all? Since you talked them out of

Prevnar, even though it was an uncovered strain. I'm just wondering,

since most greiving parents usually need someone to blame.

>

> That's where faith gets one through....we can't hope to understand

> it........just accept it and be grateful that she is in a better

place....her momma is

> still working on that......

>

> G

>

>

**************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog,

plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com.

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