Re:Vax waiver for boot camp- questions

[Guest guest]

In my personal opinion Kristi, I would tell you to avoid the military like the

plague... unless of course being a guinea pig for biodefense countermeasures

intrigues you.

Don't be fooled by your recruiter. The military has these exemptions: 1)

administrative (won't apply to you); 2) medical (more than likely won't apply)

and 3) religious.

When however mission requirements change - any and all waivers can and usually

are pulled. You have no rights with the military - sad, but true. I've already

been through this with those that had waivers - for typical vaccines (YF, Flu,

Heps, etc...) waivers worked - for biodefense, waivers were yanked. There's 2

right now (vaccines/biodefense), 4 that are in various stages of trials and

approx. 50 that are in the pipeline.

---------------

I was doing so reading about the miltary and its vax waiver policies.

From what I gather, you CAN get a waiver, but you have to already be in

the military to do so and you have to jump through hoops. The hoops I

can deal with, but what about if you want to enlist and they insist

that you get all the shots at boot camp? Is there a way to legally

avoid those too? I am considering finishing what I planned on doing 6

years ago, but I am still in research mode (and BF'ing #2) before I

make a decision to enlist or not.

Thanks,

Kristi

[Guest guest]

Not quite what I was looking for, but you made some great points. You

have given me more to think about, thank you.

The recuriter I asked was very honest and said that there are waivers,

but when it came to deployments they more than likely would not be

honored.

My immediate concern - avoiding the shots in bootcamp. Preventing

deployment if it ever became an issue - get pregnant. Although I know

I can't always fall back on that one.

-Kristi

>

> In my personal opinion Kristi, I would tell you to avoid the military

like the plague... unless of course being a guinea pig for biodefense

countermeasures intrigues you.

> Don't be fooled by your recruiter. The military has these

exemptions: 1) administrative (won't apply to you); 2) medical (more

than likely won't apply) and 3) religious.

>

> When however mission requirements change - any and all waivers can

and usually are pulled. You have no rights with the military - sad,

but true. I've already been through this with those that had waivers -

for typical vaccines (YF, Flu, Heps, etc...) waivers worked - for

biodefense, waivers were yanked. There's 2 right now

(vaccines/biodefense), 4 that are in various stages of trials and

approx. 50 that are in the pipeline.

[Guest guest]

I understand the no vax stance, but... if you are not willing to deploy, why

would you enlist?  Getting pregnant to avoid deployment?  And when your

temporary deferment is over?(Speaking as a 10 year USAF veteran)

 Maggie

2/3 to a Dane 6 pack with Rufus, Oliver (deaf), Mickey and Charlie

Re:Vax waiver for boot camp- questions

Not quite what I was looking for, but you made some great points. You

have given me more to think about, thank you.

The recuriter I asked was very honest and said that there are waivers,

but when it came to deployments they more than likely would not be

honored.

My immediate concern - avoiding the shots in bootcamp. Preventing

deployment if it ever became an issue - get pregnant. Although I know

I can't always fall back on that one.

-Kristi

>

> In my personal opinion Kristi, I would tell you to avoid the military

like the plague... unless of course being a guinea pig for biodefense

countermeasures intrigues you..

> Don't be fooled by your recruiter. The military has these

exemptions: 1) administrative (won't apply to you); 2) medical (more

than likely won't apply) and 3) religious.

>

> When however mission requirements change - any and all waivers can

and usually are pulled. You have no rights with the military - sad,

but true. I've already been through this with those that had waivers -

for typical vaccines (YF, Flu, Heps, etc...) waivers worked - for

biodefense, waivers were yanked. There's 2 right now

(vaccines/biodefens e), 4 that are in various stages of trials and

approx. 50 that are in the pipeline.

[Guest guest]

More good points. I'm glad I'm not jumping to conclusion about

joining. I have 8 months until my DD is 12 months and only then

would I even consider weaning her from the breast. There are a few

reasons I want to enlist, primarily the GI Bill - four years active

like DH did and then I can get my college paid for to become an

IBCLC. Deployment isn't really an issue - just the shots, DH and I

have done it before, except this time it would be the other way

around. The recruiter was saying something to me about the DEP and

how I could get on there but would need something form my Ped. saying

something like " In the best interest of the child (my DD currently 4

months), the brestfeeding relationship should be continued until X

months. " Maybe something like that? I don't know. I'm still

thikning everything over.

The GI Bill thing, I talked to DH about just finding some other way

and he said, sure do online with financial aid, but you won't get

paid at the same time like if I were active duty.

I'm hoping things change for us for the better in the next 8 months

and I can quit thinking about this. There are other personal issues

that have me thinking about enlistment too.

>

> I understand the no vax stance, but... if you are not willing to

deploy, why would you enlist?  Getting pregnant to avoid deployment? 

And when your temporary deferment is over?(Speaking as a 10 year USAF

veteran)

>  Maggie

> 2/3 to a Dane 6 pack with Rufus, Oliver (deaf), Mickey and Charlie

>

[Guest guest]

oh man - I would never ever take the chance, especially the way the

world is right now

Listen to Randi who has been there.

Sheri

At 01:41 PM 7/16/2008, you wrote:

>More good points. I'm glad I'm not jumping to conclusion about

>joining. I have 8 months until my DD is 12 months and only then

>would I even consider weaning her from the breast. There are a few

>reasons I want to enlist, primarily the GI Bill - four years active

>like DH did and then I can get my college paid for to become an

>IBCLC. Deployment isn't really an issue - just the shots, DH and I

>have done it before, except this time it would be the other way

>around. The recruiter was saying something to me about the DEP and

>how I could get on there but would need something form my Ped. saying

>something like " In the best interest of the child (my DD currently 4

>months), the brestfeeding relationship should be continued until X

>months. " Maybe something like that? I don't know. I'm still

>thikning everything over.

>

>The GI Bill thing, I talked to DH about just finding some other way

>and he said, sure do online with financial aid, but you won't get

>paid at the same time like if I were active duty.

>

>I'm hoping things change for us for the better in the next 8 months

>and I can quit thinking about this. There are other personal issues

>that have me thinking about enlistment too.

>

> >

> > I understand the no vax stance, but... if you are not willing to

>deploy, why would you enlist? Getting pregnant to avoid deployment?

>And when your temporary deferment is over?(Speaking as a 10 year USAF

>veteran)

> > Maggie

> > 2/3 to a Dane 6 pack with Rufus, Oliver (deaf), Mickey and Charlie

> >

>

>

>

>------------------------------------

>

>

[Guest guest]

I'm not sure any commander would take so far as to physically restrain a

soldier for a vaccination as that gets into questions of assault. As Sheri said,

they can dishonorably discharge them for " Failure to follow a lawful order " .

They will loose all their benifits (including college money, VA benifits),

they will find gainful employment hard to come by (employers often ask for

copies of discharge papers for varification of discharge) and they will never

be

allowed to hold a government job, not even as a contractor.

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[Guest guest]

Thank you. Those were some things I hadn't thought about or not

thought hard enought about the first time.

Back to the drawing board!

-Kristi

-- In Vaccinations , crystldrgn72@... wrote:

>

> There are military regulations reguarding religious medical

waivers, however

> they do NOT have to be approved by your commander and you have to

have them

> done for every new commander (whether the commander changes or you

change

> units).

<SNIP>

>

> Military personnel also have to SHOW that their religion is opposed

to

> vaccination. Meaning you can't simply say " I dont believe in it " ,

and the

> Chaplains (who you'll need a memorandum from to give to your

commander in order to

> get the exemption) have a list of the various religions that are

specifically

> against vaccinations. If you arent a member of one of those

religions (again,

> you must show documentation that states you are a practicing member

of that

> faith), you will have to obtain some type of documentation to show

it (such as

> printed material from your faith, a signed document on church

letterhead...

> ie the church headquarters, not the local pastor). They are VERY

hard to get

> once you're out of basic and at your duty station.

<SNIP>

> Believe what the others who have replied have told you. Joining

the military

> (especially during a time of war) simply to get the college money

with the

> game plan of " I'll just get pregnant " is a bad idea. What happens

if for some

> reason you DON'T get pregnant? What would you do then? Deploy? Go

AWOL? Trust

> me when I say they will have already made sure that you've had all

the shots

> you need to go. Pardon the pun, but getting pregnant isn't an

automatic 'one

> shot = one kill' objective. Even if you've gotten pregnant on the

first try

> in the past, it doesn't mean that will happen again. Please don't

play the

> game unless you're absolutely willing to take the chance of

loosing because the

> odds will NOT be in your favor.

>

>

> 10 year US Army Medic and Veteran, currently a proud Army wife and

SAHM to 3

> Army " Brats "

[Guest guest]

At 11:33 AM 7/17/2008, you wrote:

>If a person refuses the vaccines can they hold them down or restrain

>them and vaccinate them?

They will be dishonorably discharged and that has a lot of

ramifications right away

Sheri

>crystldrgn72@... wrote:

> >

> > There are military regulations reguarding religious medical waivers,

> > however

> > they do NOT have to be approved by your commander and you have to have

> > them

> > done for every new commander (whether the commander changes or you change

> > units). You may get lucky enough to have one commader agree, and the

> > very next

> > one refuse to sign it. Because of unit readiness issues they have

> > every " right "

> > to do so. You're the one signing your name on that dotted line, no one

> > forces you to do that. Once a commander refuses to sign to continue

> > that waiver...

> > thats it, they can march you over to the clinic and give you a lawful

> > order

> > to submit yourself for vaccinations (I've unfortunatly seen it done) and

> > depending on the situation they can and will give you everything that the

> > military says you should have and don't... all at once, with the

> > exception of maybe

> > one or two that you'll have to go back and get later.

> >

> > Military personnel also have to SHOW that their religion is opposed to

> > vaccination. Meaning you can't simply say " I dont believe in it " , and the

> > Chaplains (who you'll need a memorandum from to give to your commander

> > in order to

> > get the exemption) have a list of the various religions that are

> > specifically

> > against vaccinations. If you arent a member of one of those religions

> > (again,

> > you must show documentation that states you are a practicing member of

> > that

> > faith), you will have to obtain some type of documentation to show it

> > (such as

> > printed material from your faith, a signed document on church

> > letterhead...

> > ie the church headquarters, not the local pastor). They are VERY hard

> > to get

> > once you're out of basic and at your duty station. Granted it may or

> > may not

> > be quite as hard in the Air Force as it is in the Army... my only

> > experience

> > is trying to get the Army to wave my childrens vaccines... I couldn't

> > imagine

> > having to get all of that done while I had been in. They don't like

> > giving

> > them for children... and they know they don't HAVE to give them for

> > active duty

> > personnel.

> >

> > Believe what the others who have replied have told you. Joining the

> > military

> > (especially during a time of war) simply to get the college money with

> > the

> > game plan of " I'll just get pregnant " is a bad idea. What happens if

> > for some

> > reason you DON'T get pregnant? What would you do then? Deploy? Go

> > AWOL? Trust

> > me when I say they will have already made sure that you've had all the

> > shots

> > you need to go. Pardon the pun, but getting pregnant isn't an

> > automatic 'one

> > shot = one kill' objective. Even if you've gotten pregnant on the

> > first try

> > in the past, it doesn't mean that will happen again. Please don't play

> > the

> > game unless you're absolutely willing to take the chance of loosing

> > because the

> > odds will NOT be in your favor.

> >

> >

> > 10 year US Army Medic and Veteran, currently a proud Army wife and

> > SAHM to 3

> > Army " Brats "

> >

> > **************Get the scoop on last night's hottest shows and the live

> > music

> > scene in your area - Check out TourTracker.com!

> > (http://www.tourtracker.com?NCID=aolmus00050000000112

> > <http://www.tourtracker.com?NCID=aolmus00050000000112>)

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

At 02:57 PM 7/17/2008, you wrote:

>I'm not sure any commander would take so far as to physically restrain a

>soldier for a vaccination as that gets into questions of assault. As

>Sheri said,

>they can dishonorably discharge them for " Failure to follow a lawful order " .

>They will loose all their benifits (including college money, VA benifits),

>they will find gainful employment hard to come by (employers often ask for

>copies of discharge papers for varification of discharge) and they

>will never be

>allowed to hold a government job, not even as a contractor.

With the anthrax vaccine refusals, I think all of those were upgraded

and the dishonorable dropped.

I don't know anyone else who has tried to refuse vaccines from the

start other than anthrax vax.

Sheri

--------------------------------------------------------

Sheri Nakken, former R.N., MA, Hahnemannian Homeopath

Vaccination Information & Choice Network, Nevada City CA & Wales UK

Vaccines - http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccine.htm or

http://www.wellwithin1.com/vaccine.htm

Vaccine Dangers & Homeopathy Online/email courses

http://www.wellwithin1.com/vaccineclass.htm or

http://www.wellwithin1.com/homeo.htm

[Guest guest]

Kristi,

I'd like to add to the responses of those that have been in and

know,you just cant count on the things the recruiter tells you could

possibly happen in your favor,will. Once you sign that dotted line,

its all about what's in the best interest of the military,NOT you or

your family. Sure, he can tell you a Dr will write you a note,but

that note wont do anything if the mission needs you. And the DEP is

set up for the needs of the service,not for the individual. You could

luck out and not have to go for 6 months or so, but you could also

have to report in 1,and the recruiter has no control over that.

I was AD in the AF in 1985 and after 3 yrs wanted to start a family,

but the career field I was in wasnt conducive to that because I was

TDY most of the time after we got back from our 3 year tour in

Germany. I loved the AF but certainly didnt expect to be tdy for most

of the time,once back in the US. I wanted to crosstrain to a more

conventional job so I could remain home, but I was in a critical

field and they said no, so I got out when my time was up and joined

the ANG full time. Turned out it took me 2 yrs of fertility

treatments to even get pg. When finally I did and was breastfeeding,

I wasnt given any special treatment for that at work or otherwise.I

could only go feed him on my lunch hour. Despite a Drs note he

breastfeed for medical reasons, I was denied as my unit was tasked to

go on a 6 month deployment later in the year. I was in tears

everytime I looked down at his face, knowing I'd be soon leaving him

and had no say in it. The lord was looking down on us because

miraculoulsy,I ended up pg again without trying or any

intervention,and still breastfeeding, so I made an immediate decision

to get out.

Since 9/11, things have gotten even worse and I have known several

woman who have been deployed as soon as their 6 week maternity leave

was up. No excuses were allowed. I've even know a few couples where

both parents are deployed at the same time with a new born and other

kids.

Dont get me wrong, I loved the military life and my H just retired

after 24 years, but speaking to any mother and knowing the chances

she is taking,I would never recommend it now. No amount of money in

the world is worth it. It might seem like an antiquated way of

thinking,but men cant breastfeed children.

Good luck,

~

> >

> > I understand the no vax stance, but... if you are not willing to

> deploy, why would you enlist?  Getting pregnant to avoid

deployment? 

> And when your temporary deferment is over?(Speaking as a 10 year

USAF

> veteran)

> >  Maggie

> > 2/3 to a Dane 6 pack with Rufus, Oliver (deaf), Mickey and Charlie

> >

>

[Guest guest]

In the Neil book, Vaccine Safety Manual, in the anthrax

section, there are military personnel who report being held down

after refusing the anthrax vaccine and getting it unwillingly.

> >I'm not sure any commander would take so far as to physically

restrain a

> >soldier for a vaccination as that gets into questions of assault.

As

> >Sheri said,

> >they can dishonorably discharge them for " Failure to follow a

lawful order " .

> >They will loose all their benifits (including college money, VA

benifits),

> >they will find gainful employment hard to come by (employers

often ask for

> >copies of discharge papers for varification of discharge) and

they

> >will never be

> >allowed to hold a government job, not even as a contractor.

>

> With the anthrax vaccine refusals, I think all of those were

upgraded

> and the dishonorable dropped.

> I don't know anyone else who has tried to refuse vaccines from the

> start other than anthrax vax.

> Sheri

>

>

> --------------------------------------------------------

> Sheri Nakken, former R.N., MA, Hahnemannian Homeopath

> Vaccination Information & Choice Network, Nevada City CA & Wales UK

> Vaccines - http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccine.htm or

> http://www.wellwithin1.com/vaccine.htm

> Vaccine Dangers & Homeopathy Online/email courses

> http://www.wellwithin1.com/vaccineclass.htm or

> http://www.wellwithin1.com/homeo.htm

>

[Guest guest]

I was told by someone I know who is ex military that some military

personnel were given the smallpox vaccine unwillingly as well. I wish I

had some way to confirm this.

dianslad wrote:

>

> In the Neil book, Vaccine Safety Manual, in the anthrax

> section, there are military personnel who report being held down

> after refusing the anthrax vaccine and getting it unwillingly.

>

>

> > >I'm not sure any commander would take so far as to physically

> restrain a

> > >soldier for a vaccination as that gets into questions of assault.

> As

> > >Sheri said,

> > >they can dishonorably discharge them for " Failure to follow a

> lawful order " .

> > >They will loose all their benifits (including college money, VA

> benifits),

> > >they will find gainful employment hard to come by (employers

> often ask for

> > >copies of discharge papers for varification of discharge) and

> they

> > >will never be

> > >allowed to hold a government job, not even as a contractor.

> >

> > With the anthrax vaccine refusals, I think all of those were

> upgraded

> > and the dishonorable dropped.

> > I don't know anyone else who has tried to refuse vaccines from the

> > start other than anthrax vax.

> > Sheri

> >

> >

> > --------------------------------------------------------

> > Sheri Nakken, former R.N., MA, Hahnemannian Homeopath

> > Vaccination Information & Choice Network, Nevada City CA & Wales UK

> > Vaccines - http://www.nccn.net/~wwithin/vaccine.htm

> <http://www.nccn.net/%7Ewwithin/vaccine.htm> or

> > http://www.wellwithin1.com/vaccine.htm

> <http://www.wellwithin1.com/vaccine.htm>

> > Vaccine Dangers & Homeopathy Online/email courses

> > http://www.wellwithin1.com/vaccineclass.htm

> <http://www.wellwithin1.com/vaccineclass.htm> or

> > http://www.wellwithin1.com/homeo.htm

> <http://www.wellwithin1.com/homeo.htm>

> >

>

>