Re: OT: API Report on Commercial Pet Food Part 2 of 2

August 30, 2007

At 06:30 PM 8/29/2007 -0700, you wrote:

>No, she didn't eat them but she planned on doing so. She incapacited them

for later. Seriously folks, you got your point across and I've said mine.

I'm not into feeding raw. Maybe in the future but not now and for the

person who said it was " just too much trouble " you're right. I have three

kids, a full time freelancing job, five dogs, five horses and six cats on

35 acres. Yes, it is too much trouble.

Ok, just say that its too much trouble for you. Don't try to say the

behavior problems are due to raw foods.

Sheri

--------------------------------------------------------

Sheri Nakken, R.N., MA, Hahnemannian Homeopath

Vaccination Information & Choice Network, Nevada City CA & Wales UK

$$ Donations to help in the work - accepted by Paypal account

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NEXT CLASSES start by email September 5 or 6

August 30, 2007

Dianne,

You are 100% right! I recently lost a dog to rabies over-vaccination and it

was not pretty!! She had one " auto-immune " disease after another. One of them

was labeled " masticatory myositis " by the allopaths but guess what that is - JAW

PARALYSIS. And guess what one of the symptoms of acute rabies is - JAW

PARALYSIS. This vaccine is one of the absolute worst and to think I had her get

it over and over before I knew better. It is one of the main causes of

aggression as well. How disgusting that we are brainwashed into doing all of

this to our pets - thinking we are doing the right thing by vaccinating them

over and over and feeding some inappropriate, processed " food " that you

conveniently pour out of a bag. Once you wake up you could just kick yourself.

Diane

JodevinCollies02@... wrote:

What creates " bloodthirsty " qualities in these dogs, ANY dogs, is the RABIES

VACCINE.

You simply CANNOT load an animal up with elements of a neurological based

disease and not expect him to present WITH symptoms of that disease. One of

these days even the allopaths will have to admit this FACT!!!!!

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August 30, 2007

IMO when a dog behaves that way it is due to improper training, poor

breeding or just the breed of dog that it is, poor diet and over

vaccination. If you get alot of rescues then you have no idea how they

were raised or what vaccines they endured during their life.

I'm not saying that you have to feed raw, but one should not criticize

it without first knowing all the facts behind it. Choosing the right

breed for your family is just as important as choosing what to feed

it. Choosing a breed with a high prey drive is probably not the best

choice for a farm like situation.

Keisha

>

> I guess from my point of view, with kids and cats and horses, I have

to be more careful about what my dogs are allowed to do and what they

aren't allowed to do. Years ago we had a dog named Harley and she was

a good dog, but even as a family dog she as always pretty close to the

" I'll take care of myself wild edge. "

>

> We had ducks and chickens in the basement until they were old enough

to go outside to the coop and one day I put Harley on the back porch

and forgot to close the bottom basement door. She went down and broke

their backs, did not kill them, she broke their backs so they could

not get away and then carried them upstairs and laid them by the door

leading outside. SHe didn't put them by my door as a present, she put

them by her door to deal with later. One by one she brought them up

the stairs crunching as she got there so they'd be unable to move when

they got to the door.

>

> This is very, very primal behavior and we had a brand new baby, and

this was not her first incident with killing things, so we had her put

down. Maybe fluffy at the local apartment building is different, but I

have dogs that have to be in many different situations with many

different animals. I will give them bones that are raw if I have them,

but I don't think that an all raw diet is a good idea for us. After

all, *I* would not eat an all raw diet either.

>

> IT's just my opinion, take it for what it's worth. I have had many,

many dogs over hte years, and many that were rescues that we've

rehomed through different organizations, so I'm not a newbie to the

world of dogs.

>

> Now, on the animal vaccines, I totally agree.

>

August 30, 2007

I never said the behavior of my past dogs was due to raw foods. THat was a leap

you and DIane made. I SAID that I've had dogs that were borderline primal and

that I've had dogs " turn " and kill our smaller animals and that I THINK that a

raw diet would encourage that behavior and that I don't want to go there.

YOU and DIANE made this about right and wrong. You and Diane are forcing

yourself to have the last word on the subject. I find it illuminating that you

both can't let it go and must try to " shame " me into admitting that a raw diet

is a lot of work that I'm not willing to undertake right now.

Well, I'm done on the subject. If you really feel a need to be " right " about

this, then be right. It doesn't change my experience with dogs or the fact that

a raw diet isn't for everyone. Period.

Re: Re: OT: API Report on Commercial Pet Food Part 2 of

2

At 06:30 PM 8/29/2007 -0700, you wrote:

>No, she didn't eat them but she planned on doing so. She incapacited them

for later. Seriously folks, you got your point across and I've said mine.

I'm not into feeding raw. Maybe in the future but not now and for the

person who said it was " just too much trouble " you're right. I have three

kids, a full time freelancing job, five dogs, five horses and six cats on

35 acres. Yes, it is too much trouble.

Ok, just say that its too much trouble for you. Don't try to say the

behavior problems are due to raw foods.

Sheri

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------

Sheri Nakken, R.N., MA, Hahnemannian Homeopath

Vaccination Information & Choice Network, Nevada City CA & Wales UK

$$ Donations to help in the work - accepted by Paypal account

earthmysteriestours @tesco.net voicemail US 530-740-0561

(go to http://www.paypal. com) or by mail

Vaccines - http://www.nccn. net/~wwithin/ vaccine.htm or

http://www.wellwith in1.com/vaccine. htm

Vaccine Dangers On-Line course - http://www.wellwith in1.com/vaccinec lass.htm

Reality of the Diseases & Treatment -

http://www.nccn. net/~wwithin/ vaccineclass. htm

Homeopathy On-Line course - http://www.wellwith in1.com/homeo. htm

NEXT CLASSES start by email September 5 or 6

August 30, 2007

#1 -- I didn't vaccinate my dogs much back then, so no, it wasn't due to that.

In fact, I've always been a cheap ass when it comes to vaccinating my animals. I

just never did " get " it so I didn't do it much. And now I don't vaccinate at

all.

#2 -- I AM NOT BLAMING THEIR BEHAVIOR ON A RAW DIET. The jumps of your logic to

explain where I am wrong is what is flawed. I'm not making a " case " for dogs

that go bad due to raw food. I was explaining why I choose not to do it. IT was

that simple in the beginning.

#3 -- I can see now how I may be using " vaccines " to answer everything in the

world, when that isn't so. Your constant badgering on how and why a raw diet is

right for everyone is showing me that I may be doing the same thing with my

families health and vaccines. That has been eye opening for me, so that's one

good thing that's coming out of it.

#4 -- some dogs aren't over vaccinated, some are just primal to begin with.

Feel free to drop the subject.

Re: OT: API Report on Commercial Pet Food Part 2 of 2

At 10:56 AM 8/29/2007 -0700, you wrote:

>Uh, I'm not writing a dissertation. I can see dogs on the news who have

attacked children. I have seen my own dogs attack lesser animals and eat

them. I have seen a dog literally incapcitate ducks and chickens in a

methodical way in order to get what she wanted.

>

>I live in the country where dogs that are dropped off by city people

revert to their wild ways and become predators that often have to be shot

by ranchers and rural people. I also see very nice, starving dogs that I

have picked up and re-homed.

>

>I have not tried an all raw diet. Again, for me it would be too expensive,

and too messy and too much of everything. I live 30 miles from town -- so

getting raw meat would be difficult. I'm not trying to change your methods,

I'm explaining why those methods won't work for everyone.

>

>Until you've seen a dog go bad, I guess you can't understand where I'm

coming from either. Gotta run......... ....

>

,

With all due respect, your logic is very flawed.

None of what you have said proves it is due to a raw food diet.

Maybe it is because they do NOT have raw food.

Maybe it is because of multiple vaccinations.

But you have not proven that raw food diets are to blame.

Sheri

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------

Sheri Nakken, R.N., MA, Hahnemannian Homeopath

Vaccination Information & Choice Network, Nevada City CA & Wales UK

$$ Donations to help in the work - accepted by Paypal account

earthmysteriestours @tesco.net voicemail US 530-740-0561

(go to http://www.paypal. com) or by mail

Vaccines - http://www.nccn. net/~wwithin/ vaccine.htm or

http://www.wellwith in1.com/vaccine. htm

Vaccine Dangers On-Line course - http://www.wellwith in1.com/vaccinec lass.htm

Reality of the Diseases & Treatment -

http://www.nccn. net/~wwithin/ vaccineclass. htm

Homeopathy On-Line course - http://www.wellwith in1.com/homeo. htm

NEXT CLASSES start by email September 5 or 6

August 30, 2007

Absolutely not. The killing of the ducks was NOT a training issue. We had that

dog from the time she was three months old. Got her from the pound where she had

been returned three times.

You cannot sit on a computer somewhere and tell me why MY dog killed ducks. I

also said this was just another killing in a long list. She also killed the

chickens if they got out of the coop and she killed our pet bunny when the wind

came through and blew the door open on the coop (Kansas winds are very powerful,

so don't bother telling me I should have shut the door).

Placing a dog with a prey instinct like this in another home is like putting a

pit bull that has bitten children previously in a crib with a baby. We did not

re-home her due to her prey drive.

Not all dogs can be saved. Not all dogs can be rehomed. She had constant

attention, free food, slept on a pillow on the back porch and went to dog

obeience training for two years. Don't bother to tell me I don't " train " my

dogs. That's what people say when they " think " they would have done something

differently. Oh, I know why it happened. You don't KNOW anything other than what

I've taken the time to type into a forum. You weren't there. You didn't see the

methodical method of the way she incapacited the ducks, and then went down the

stairs one at a time and got them, crunching them on the way up. And then

someone had the nerve to say " oh she wasn't eating them " uh, YEAH, that was her

plan folks. She put them by HER backdoor, not mine. I've had dogs that will

catch me a rabbit and place it at my feet. A clear present to me -- THIS was not

the case with Harley.

Yes, it was totally my fault for not closing the bottom basement door. But what

if I had forgotten to close the babies door one day and she was coming in and

out of the house? Not a chance I'm willing to take.

You all with your sanctimonious " Here's how I would have done it advice " is

really making me question the other information that is put out on this list.

Re: OT: API Report on Commercial Pet Food Part 2 of 2

**After all, *I* would not eat an all raw diet either.**

------------ ------

But ...you are not a carnivore... your dog is! And I cannot understand

how you can justify putting a dog to sleep for killing?ducks? Again -a training

issue! Why could you not have placed the dog?in another home instead??Killing

ducks doe snot make a dog a bloodthirsty mean eater...it is their instinct, and

it is our job to?train them and keep the other animals safe from other pets who

could injure them.

B??

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August 30, 2007

See my other post . This is pretty much a done subject. You're a bit late

and I'm done arguing the reason why *I* choose not to feed raw at this time. I'm

not brainwashed, I'm over extended. I can only change so much about my life so

fast, and living 30 miles from town keeps me from jumping on this bandwagon hook

line and sinker at the moment. See the other posts on this subject before you

start in again, would you?

Re: OT: API Report on Commercial Pet Food Part 2 of 2

Oh, my, ,

Who has brainwashed you, the pet food industry or the veterinary industry? First

of all, there is no argument...Dogs ARE carnivores. The sonian has actually

changed the classification of dogs to Canis lupus (same as wolf) from Canis

familiaris. It has been shown that there is no detectable difference in the

digestive tract of a dog or a wolf. The DNA difference between a dog and a wolf

?is .002% --- even a coyote has 4% difference in DNA from a wolf! ?The fact that

most people feed their dogs a dry, grain filled, cooked kibble does not mean

that dogs have evolved to be omnivorous or vegetarian. Kibble is sprayed with

rancid fat after it is cooked...you would rather have your dog lick your child

after eating that? Feeding a dog raw meat in NO way makes them bloodthirsty

creatures. I know of many people who have raw-fed dogs who live harmoniously

with their cats, rabbits, chickens, etc. It is a training issue more than

anything. ANY dog has prey

drive, and yes, a kibble fed Shih tzu will go after a rabbit just as easily as

a raw fed German Shepherd will. They need to learn what is acceptable, and this

goes for ANY dog.??

B

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August 30, 2007

Gee, no kidding? When you rescue as I used to, you don't often know what you're

getting.

See the other posts.