Marti - Re: Antivirals - herxing?

June 1, 2011

Hi Joy,

I didn't respond to your post initially because I don't feel qualified. I have

never had these types of symptoms with ANY anti-viral. Here's my story....

When I was very, very sick and not on any antivirals - I was put on the shingle

dose of Valtrex - 3grams a day for 7 days. I felt better starting the 3rd or

4th day. I never had the herx you are experiencing. But I have several of the

herpes virus family, tested by PCR, so I know I have a viral problem. Perhaps

my detox system is healthier than yours and my body is able to get rid of the

dead bodies. Maybe your immune system is more reactive than mine and you are

experiencing an inflammatory response to the dead bodies. I'm not sure.

When going from nothing to acyclovir (1200mg) or acyclovir (1200mg) to Valtrex

(500mg), I have never had any symptoms that you are experiencing. Instead, I

have those symptoms when I am NOT taking one of these anti-virals.

Valtrex, for me, is more effective. The difference between nothing and

acyclovir is about the same to me as the difference between acyclovir and

Valtrex. I haven't played with acyclovir and valine enough to mimic Valtrex

exactly but enough to know that it can be done (there are no special chemical

bonds that make only Valtrex work like Valtrex).

But Valtrex is stronger than acyclovir so if you are herxing this badly with

acyclovir, the Valtrex would make it worse until you got the viral load down.

I think the question - should I bulldoze through the issues - " no pain, no gain

attitude " is the million dollar question. Sometimes, I think there is no

substitute for doing so but other times, I feel that damage is being done and

people can make themselves much sicker by this attitude. I guess it would

depend on the state of health, the supplement in question, as well as other

factors such as important upcoming projects, help at home, work, caring for self

and family, etc.

If I were you, I would cut back on the acyclovir. 800mg 4x a day is a very high

dose. I have been on 1200mg per day in divided doses and my doctor was very

concerned about liver toxicity. He was comfortable for me to be on 800 per day

with only occasional liver testing. The normal dose for these meds is listed in

the link I posted earlier. The doses are listed for healthy people, children

and immune compromised people like those with HIV. Even those with HIV do not

take these mega-doses I am seeing posted (but then I am not seeing anyone who is

cutting edge). More may not be better. I would also take the doses in divided

doses through the day even if you cut back to 800mg. Valtrex is supposed to be

once a day which I do but I have often wondered if it would be more effective

twice a day. I would increase all methods of detoxification (don't do an

active cleanse but instead take supplements to help liver work better, increase

bowel movement, increase water, fiber, etc. in order to reduce herx reaction.

Blood purifiers, pectin, vitamin c - anything to help body get rid of the dead

cellular matter.

I have found that it rarely hurts to go slower. I have also found it true to

question everything. Are you sure that it is the Valtrex (other have had this

reaction) but is it possible that you also started another supplement or

medication which may be the culprit.

Lastly, I always, always start at baby doses with every medication or

supplement. Our bodies are not normal and we could easily have a severe

reaction. Starting at 3200mg acyclovir could have been the problem - your

detoxification system did not have the opportunity to remove the dead cells.

It's sluggish anyway (most with CFIDS have a sluggish detox system) but now it

is clogged.

Thinking about my advice earlier, I have changed my mind. I would stop

acyclovir immediately and stay off until all of your symptoms are gone. Then

begin again at 200mg a day. Every 4-5 days or even a week, add another 200mg

dose. You could try the first dose at night so you go through some of the herx

at night. Every time you increase, increase at night.

HTH,

Marti

> >

> > Hi there,

> > I have never heard that acyclovir or valtrex was disturbed by stomach acid.

I have never read that it was absorbed at different rates, etc. It seems like a

lot of work. Are the molecules small enough to go through the mucosa? Most

substances are too large.

> >

> > I do know that some of these medications need to be on a very strict time

table (it all depends on the replication rates of the virus). I don't have

links to show this but research I did ages ago showed that EBV was one of those

8 hr replication viruses so being faithful to the dosing was important.

Especially for acyclovir since Valtrex is usually dosed once a day. I did

experiment with this and felt there was some truth to it.

> >

> > Valtrex is acyclovir with Valine (an amino acid). It is more expensive

(even though it was re-categorized as generic last year, the price hasn't come

down yet). I purchase mine overseas for $18/month at 500mg per day whereas my

insurance cost is $30. I do feel the difference between Valtex and acyclovir.

It is a remarkable difference - almost the same as not being on anything and

being on acyclovir.

> >

> > You could take acyclovir with valine. I haven't worked out the exact amount

but here is a link to the Valtrex pdf. Maybe you could find it in there.

> >

> > http://us.gsk.com/products/assets/us_valtrex.pdf

> >

> > I know that I do better at 1gm per day - I may try the higher doses.

> >