Guest guest Posted November 11, 2011 Report Share Posted November 11, 2011 You can never judge effectiveness by what the medical community does or doesn't do... yes, it's that easy. I just read " Bacteria for Breakfast " and all the symptoms you list from this perspective are due to lack of good bacteria in the stomach, intestines and colon. Not hard to understand as our food in general kill off the good bacteria-- antibiotics in meat/chicken, rancid vegetable oils, etc. The book suggests an expensive prociotic ($50) but starting with something would be good. I have not started the comprehensive probiotic yet but when I just added HCL with pepsin to my diet all my symptoms of gluten allergy went away. I do not adhere to the diet as well as I should, and my blood tests show it, but it was amazing how the symptoms disappeared with digestive help. All my family take Braggs vinegar with honey 1-2x/daily for indigestion which is a common ailment for Americans mostly due to rancid vegetable oils (which all of them are right out of the bottle). Switch to real butter, olive oil (do not fry with it) or coconut oil. Palm oil is good also. -anne >________________________________________________________________________ >1a. Re: GI Upset > Posted by: " cancfs " ambitious8@... cancfs > Date: Thu Nov 10, 2011 4:02 pm ((PST)) > >Thank you all for your input. I was already off gluten, dairy, sugar, eggs and fish. I was eating mostly meats, vegetables and gluten-free grains (buckwheat, quinoa, rice, corn). I can hardly tolerate any of that now. I don't know what to eat anymore...evrything gives me stomach pain. > >Question for Marti: You mentionned the vinegar. I know that the naturopaths always say that heartburn is caused by insufficient acid rather than too much and recommend vinegar. You truly found it to be effective? If it was so simple, we would never have invented acid-lowering drugs. > >Yannick > > >> >> Hi, I've had that happen and last for months along with constipation and >> thought I'd die from it, the pain and nausea, then gradually gets better on >> it's own. I am in a bout of it now as I await a huge surgery for uterine >> cancer. Fear and a D & C have put me in an M.E. relapse from hell. >> >> As far as Nexium and the other proton pump inhibitors, sometimes you have >> to experiment with the different ones. I found the only one that worked for >> me the last time I had really bad acid reflux was Zegerid. >> >> Hope you feel better soon. Best Wishes, Robbi >> “Blind belief in authority is the greatest enemy of truth.†— Albert Einstein Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 30, 2011 Report Share Posted November 30, 2011 Hi there, Did I mention that I use Apple Cider Vinegar CAPSULES for when I am out and about (or when I just can't swallow the liquid). I am sure to take a large glass of water with about 3 capsules. It works as well as liquid, maybe not quite as good, good enough for the convenience. I have never done a test comparing the two. I have a well-sealed bottle that I store the capsules in and put it in my purse. They have a sharp odor but no taste. Marti > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello, > > > > > > > > Almost 2 months ago I saw my GP. Since my usual sleep meds were not > > > > working as well as they previously had, I asked if she had anything else I > > > > could try. > > > > > > > > She prescribed an antidepressant (Lexapro). It is an SSRI. After the > > > > second day of using it, I started having gastric pain. After about 5 days, > > > > I had to stop the Lexapro, because of a multitude of side-effects (these > > > > antidepressants are really horrible). > > > > > > > > However, the gastric pain has persisted. It feels like when you haven't > > > > eaten in a long time and your stomach feels like there is a big hole and > > > > some burning. I have been on Nexium for one month (The dose was increased > > > > to 80mg per days 10 days ago) with no relief. > > > > > > > > I am having trouble eating as all foods and liquids (including water) seem > > > > to irritate my stomach. > > > > > > > > I don't know what to do. I have never had gastric upset for 2 months > > > > straight and with no relief through medications. > > > > > > > > Does anybody have any experience with this or any ideas? > > > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > > > Yannick > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 13, 2012 Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 As a follow-up: I've been taking 2 tablespoons apple cider vinegar (Bragg's) with 8 oz water 2x/day, at 11:00am and then at 7:00pm, which is usually before breakfast and dinner for me. I seem to be having my usual die-off symptoms, which consist of feeling kind of like I've got the flu: wider body temp swings, occasional chills, more fatigue and brain fog. On the positive side, it seems to be giving me a softer stool, which I'm guessing means my digestion is working better (sorry if that's TMI for anyone!). With all these different things I've tried over the last 6 years, most didn't have any effect at all, and the ones that did have an effect produced die-off symptoms, which make me feel worse. I've almost given up hope that I'll find a treatment one day that will actually make me feel *better*. Almost. But I'm still hanging in there. Marti, I really appreciate how much you share thoughts and information with us. It helps fill in the gaps in my brain when I'm having trouble thinking on my own. Best wishes, Marcia on in Salem, Massachusetts On Jan 28, 2012, at 1:24 PM, marti_zavala wrote: > Hi Marcia, > Actually, re-reading my original post was confusing to me! > > I am actually addressing two separate processes BUT they can be used together. I don't do this like I should but I do it religiously when am having issues. > > Process 1a: Apple Cider Vinegar as an anti-viral (breaks up the lipid layer) - no baking soda > > Process 1b: ACV to combat excess stomach acid. I do not use baking soda with this unless there was excessive burning on an ulcer or something and I want to erase the effects. > > Process 2a: Baking soda for sore muscles to reduce lactic acid (1tsp per 8 oz water dose - this is double the indigestion dose) > > Process 2b: Baking soda to alkalinize the body (pinch - less than 1/8 tsp in 8 oz of water). > > BUT for good digestion, these can be combined at mealtime while reaping the other benefits. How cool is that? > > The pancreas produces stomach enzymes when we start chewing. The stomach should be acidic and sometimes we have problems with both processes. At the end of the meal, about 1/2 an hour, the digestive system puts out the equivalent of baking soda to neutralize the excess acid and enzymes after a meal. > > ____________________ > So, before the meal, ingest Apple Cider Vinegar, wait a few minutes, then begin your meal. > > 5 minutes into your meal (per my gastroenterologist but I don't eat much and I eat fast so 5 minutes in and I am already done so I don't wait 5 minutes), take your digestive enzymes, finish your meal. He is also assuming I eat slowly. With chronic pancreatitis, you can't each much so 5 min doesn't work). > > 1/2 hour after meal, take baking soda to get everything back to normal. (not the pinch dose in water which is for alkalizing but a regular dose of baking soda - 1/2 tsp in 8 oz water for completing the meal or 1 tsp in 8 oz of water for double duty of completing the meal AND reducing muscle aches). > _______________________ > > You may not even need to do this at any other time than meal time - 3 times a day is pretty good but I really never did it at breakfast as I don't have much of a breakfast and ACV in the morning is yuck! > > Now for your questions (which I haven't answered thus far): > > MM: It wasn't clear to me whether you add the baking soda to the same glass as the vinegar. Would the vinegar still be effective against the lipid layer when buffered by the baking soda? > > --MZ: Sorry for the confusion. No baking soda with vinegar as it would buffer as you say. I was talking about 2 different processes in one post. > > MM: How crucial is it to take it on an empty stomach? > > --MZ: I didn't always take it on an empty stomach and felt it worked fine. I suppose if you just finished a meal, it wouldn't work as the meal would buffer the acid (almost like the baking soda). Especially, if you had bread or very absorbent stomach contents. Meat digests into an acidic substance so that's probably okay. That's for the anti-viral effect. Now for the excess acid - I think an empty stomach is critical as you want to change the pH quickly. > > MM: Did you experience any die-off reactions when you first started taking this? > > --MZ: No! which surprised me and which is why I liked it. It doesn't work great (like Valtrex) so it seems to do just enough to not overclog my detox system. I would imagine if your health was very, very poor on the ME/CFIDS scale, you might have some die-off. I felt it working within the first week (really after about 3 days). > > MM:If you add the baking soda, is it still a good idea to use a straw when drinking it to protect the enamel on your teeth? > > --MZ: No baking soda with vinegar. I never used a straw - I just chugged it back then went to brush my teeth. I have learned now that you are not supposed to brush after acidic food as the enamel is a little soft and wears away faster. You are supposed to rinse then brush 1/2 hour later. A straw would be good. > > MM: how about adding honey > --MZ: I don't know but I did some research. The average pH of honey is 3.9 and the pH of ACV is about 4.5 so honey is actually more acidic! Is that right? I may be too foggy to see my error. Maybe the sugars in honey eliminate the burn of ACV? So, unless I am too brain-fogged to see the obvious, I don't think honey will hurt but rather help as it is more acidic (unless the sugars slow down the absorption (but that shouldn't hurt the anti-viral process but might hurt the excess acid process where you want the vinegar to change the pH quickly.) > > MM: I'll probably think of more questions, but that's it for now. > --MZ: Sure, no problem. > > I have been playing with ACV in capsules from Swanson's. This would eliminate the yuck factor and the enamel issues. They are gelatin coated. I haven't tried them alone for viruses but I do use them with Valtrex, especially when I have missed a couple of days doses. > > I take them with me in my purse in a sealed container and when I am traveling as it is much easier then carting around liquid ACV. > > The biggest factor that I have experienced in all of this is the timing - I cannot remain on an 8 hr schedule. When I have done this, I feel these efforts are worth the trouble but my sleep schedule is wonky and I forget. I need a good alarm system. > > If you are going to try ACV for viruses, I would add other anti-virals like lysine or valine once you get going and see what ACV alone does for you. Maybe occassional spurts of Elderberry. And make sure the detox system is working throughout which is what we struggle for anyway - I know you know all that stuff but just putting it out there. > > I guess for those who detox with Valtrex, a course of ACV before starting Valtrex might help reduce that burden slowly. Hmmm. > > HTH, > Marti > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Almost 2 months ago I saw my GP. Since my usual sleep meds were not > > > > > > > working as well as they previously had, I asked if she had anything else I > > > > > > > could try. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > She prescribed an antidepressant (Lexapro). It is an SSRI. After the > > > > > > > second day of using it, I started having gastric pain. After about 5 days, > > > > > > > I had to stop the Lexapro, because of a multitude of side-effects (these > > > > > > > antidepressants are really horrible). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However, the gastric pain has persisted. It feels like when you haven't > > > > > > > eaten in a long time and your stomach feels like there is a big hole and > > > > > > > some burning. I have been on Nexium for one month (The dose was increased > > > > > > > to 80mg per days 10 days ago) with no relief. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am having trouble eating as all foods and liquids (including water) seem > > > > > > > to irritate my stomach. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know what to do. I have never had gastric upset for 2 months > > > > > > > straight and with no relief through medications. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Does anybody have any experience with this or any ideas? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yannick > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 13, 2012 Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 Hi Marcia, I am glad your digestion seems to be better. I hope the die-off levels off. I am curious as to why your digestion is better. I am wondering if the acidic nature of the contents of your intestinal tract is mimicking the acidic output of the good bacteria (which most of us don't have anymore). Seems that things get turned around - our bodies (bloodstream) is acidic when it should be alkaline and our intestines go alkaline when they should be acidic. Keep us posted. I have been back on the ACV myself and amazed (again) at how much better I feel. We forget to do the things we know. I am also taking Lysine and Valine so I will have to do a test as see which it is or if it's a combination of things. Take care, Marti > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Almost 2 months ago I saw my GP. Since my usual sleep meds were not > > > > > > > > working as well as they previously had, I asked if she had anything else I > > > > > > > > could try. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > She prescribed an antidepressant (Lexapro). It is an SSRI. After the > > > > > > > > second day of using it, I started having gastric pain. After about 5 days, > > > > > > > > I had to stop the Lexapro, because of a multitude of side-effects (these > > > > > > > > antidepressants are really horrible). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However, the gastric pain has persisted. It feels like when you haven't > > > > > > > > eaten in a long time and your stomach feels like there is a big hole and > > > > > > > > some burning. I have been on Nexium for one month (The dose was increased > > > > > > > > to 80mg per days 10 days ago) with no relief. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am having trouble eating as all foods and liquids (including water) seem > > > > > > > > to irritate my stomach. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know what to do. I have never had gastric upset for 2 months > > > > > > > > straight and with no relief through medications. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Does anybody have any experience with this or any ideas? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yannick > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 14, 2012 Report Share Posted February 14, 2012 Hi Marcia, You know, my digestion is moving better too. I just realized this after your note. Interesting. I am not sure why that is. Marti > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Almost 2 months ago I saw my GP. Since my usual sleep meds were not > > > > > > > > > working as well as they previously had, I asked if she had anything else I > > > > > > > > > could try. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > She prescribed an antidepressant (Lexapro). It is an SSRI. After the > > > > > > > > > second day of using it, I started having gastric pain. After about 5 days, > > > > > > > > > I had to stop the Lexapro, because of a multitude of side-effects (these > > > > > > > > > antidepressants are really horrible). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However, the gastric pain has persisted. It feels like when you haven't > > > > > > > > > eaten in a long time and your stomach feels like there is a big hole and > > > > > > > > > some burning. I have been on Nexium for one month (The dose was increased > > > > > > > > > to 80mg per days 10 days ago) with no relief. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am having trouble eating as all foods and liquids (including water) seem > > > > > > > > > to irritate my stomach. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know what to do. I have never had gastric upset for 2 months > > > > > > > > > straight and with no relief through medications. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Does anybody have any experience with this or any ideas? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yannick > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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