Guest guest Posted December 22, 2011 Report Share Posted December 22, 2011 Anyone have any experience with Liposomal Vitmain C? My Doc recommends it for Oxidative Stress I have been using it and benefit but it hypes me a little and I have a hard time getting to sleep at night even if I use it very early in the day I reduced my dose to a fraction of the Docs recommendations but it is so powerful Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 23, 2011 Report Share Posted December 23, 2011 That sounds like a viable explanation for my insomnia Rich thanks So what I can try is increase my Folates on the day I use the vitamin C Or anything that increases glutathione I have been on the methylation protocol for about four years now Steve On Dec 23, 2011, at 8:36 AM, rvankonynen wrote: > Hi, Steve. > > Vitamin C is normally recycled by glutathione. It may be that the additional vitamin C, when it becomes oxidized by dealing with oxidative stress, is placing an additional demand on glutathione and depleting it further. > > If glutathione becomes depleted in the astrocytes of the brain, their mitochondria will not be able to produce ATP at a normal rate, and that will inhibit their ability to remove glutamate from the synapses of the neurons. The glutamate will overstimulate the NMDA receptors on the postsynaptic neurons, and that can cause excitotoxicity. > > Insomnia is one of the symptoms of excitotoxity. Others are anxiety and nervousness or a " wired " feeling. > > That may be what's happening. In my opinion, it's best to raise glutathione before boosting vitamin C very much. The methylation treatments are designed to lift the partial methylation cycle block, which then causes glutathione to rise automatically. > > Best regards, > > Rich > > > > > > Anyone have any experience with Liposomal Vitmain C? > > My Doc recommends it for Oxidative Stress > > I have been using it and benefit but it hypes me a little and I have a hard time getting to sleep at night even if I use it very early in the day I reduced my dose to a fraction of the Docs recommendations but it is so powerful > > Thanks > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 24, 2011 Report Share Posted December 24, 2011 Marcia, could you tell me how much LDN your taking in the a.m.?? And how that is effecting you? Did your doctor suggest the am dosage? I seem to have the " jitters " with fatigue---an odd combo. God Bless, Sara > > > > > > Anyone have any experience with Liposomal Vitmain C? > > > My Doc recommends it for Oxidative Stress > > > I have been using it and benefit but it hypes me a little and I > > have a hard time getting to sleep at night even if I use it very > > early in the day I reduced my dose to a fraction of the Docs > > recommendations but it is so powerful > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 25, 2011 Report Share Posted December 25, 2011 Thanks Rich One thing that may be preventing glutathione increase in my case is chronic infection about a year ago we discovered I had a chronic infection While methylation helped me it wasn't enough so I am using antibiotics and getting results I think I have a permanent defect in my methylation cycle because I have to keep using folapro to keep expelling toxins I though if I used it for long enough the methylation cycle would be self sustaining and I would not need as much Steve On Dec 24, 2011, at 8:54 AM, rvankonynen wrote: > Hi, Steve. > > I wonder if something is preventing the rise in glutathione in your case. If you could run a Health Diagnostics and Research Institute methylation pathways panel, that would indicate what the current situation is. Four years is a long time for the glutathione not to be raised, if that is indeed the situation. Contact info for the lab is below. The panel costs $295. > > Best regards, > > Rich > > Methylation Pathways Panel > > This panel will indicate whether a person has a partial methylation cycle block and/or glutathione depletion. I recommend that this panel be run before deciding whether to consider treatment for lifting the methylation cycle block. I am not associated with the lab that offers this panel. > > The panel requires an order from a physician or a chiropractor. The best way to order the panel is by fax, on a clinician's letterhead. > > Available from: > > Health Diagnostics and Research Institute > 540 Bordentown Avenue, Suite 2300 > South Amboy, NJ 08879 > USA > Phone: (732) 721-1234 > Fax: (732) 525-3288 > > Lab Director: Valentine, M.D. > > Dr. Tapan Audhya, Ph.D., is willing to help clinicians with interpretation of the panel by phone, or you can use the interpretive guide below: > > Interpretation of the Health Diagnostics and Research Institute > Methylation Pathways Panel > > by > Rich Van Konynenburg, Ph.D. > > Several people have asked for help in interpreting the results of > their Health Diagnostics and Research Institute methylation pathway panels. Here are my suggestions for doing so. They are based on my study of the > biochemistry involved, on my own experience with interpreting more > than 120 of these panel results to date, and on discussion of some of > the issues with Tapan Audhya, Ph.D., at the Health Diagnostics and Research Institute. > > The panel consists of measurement of two forms of glutathione > (reduced and oxidized), adenosine, S-adenosylmethionine (SAM) , S- > adenosylhomocysteine (SAH), and seven folic acid derivatives or > vitamers. > > According to Dr. Audhya, the reference ranges for each of these > metabolites was derived from measurements on at least 120 healthy > male and female volunteer medical students from ages 20 to 40, non- > smoking, and with no known chronic diseases. The reference ranges > extend to plus and minus two standard deviations from the mean of > these measurements. > > Glutathione: This is a measurement of the concentration of the > reduced (active) form of glutathione (abbreviated GSH) in the blood > plasma. From what I've seen, most people with chronic fatigue > syndrome (PWCs) have values below the reference range. This means > that they are suffering from glutathione depletion. As they undergo > the simplified treatment approach to lift the methylation cycle > block, this value usually rises into the normal range over a period > of months. I believe that this is very important, because if > glutathione is low, vitamin B12 is likely unprotected and reacts with toxins > that build up in the absence of sufficient glutathione to take them > out. Vitamin B12 is thus " hijacked, " and not enough of it is able to > convert to methylcobalamin, which is what the methylation cycle needs > in order to function normally. Also, many of the abnormalities and > symptoms in CFS can be traced to glutathione depletion. > > Glutathione (oxidized): This is a measurement of the concentration > of the oxidized form of glutathione (abbreviated GSSG) in the blood > plasma. In many (but not all) PWCs, it is elevated above the normal > range, and this represents oxidative stress. > > Adenosine: This is a measure of the concentration of adenosine in the > blood plasma. Adenosine is a product of the reaction that converts > SAH to homocysteine. In some PWCs it is high, in some it is low, and > in some it is in the reference range. I don't yet understand what > controls the adenosine level, and I suspect there is more than one > factor involved. In most PWCs who started with abnormal values, the > adenosine level appears to be moving into the reference range with > methylation cycle treatment, but more data are needed. > > S-adenosymethionine (RBC) (SAM): This is a measure of the > concentration of SAM in the red blood cells. Most PWCs have values > below the reference range, and treatment raises the value. S- > adenosylmethionine is the main supplier of methyl groups in the body, > and many biochemical reactions depend on it for their methyl > groups. A low value for SAM represents low methylation capacity, and > in CFS, it appears to result from a partial block at the enzyme methionine > synthase. Many of the abnormalities in CFS can be tied to lack of > sufficient methyation capacity. > > S-adenosylhomocysteine (RBC) (SAH): This is a measure of the > concentration of SAH in the red blood cells. In CFS, its value > ranges from below the reference range, to within the reference range, > to above the reference range. Values appear to be converging toward > the reference range with treatment. SAH is the product of reactions > in which SAM donates methyl groups to other molecules. > > Sum of SAM and SAH: When the sum of SAM and SAH is below 268 > micromoles per deciliter, it appears to suggest the presence of > upregulating polymorphisms in the cystathione beta synthase (CBS) > enzyme, though this may not be true in every case. > > Ratio of SAM to SAH: A ratio less than about 4.5 also represents low > methylation capacity. Both the concentration of SAM and the ratio of > concentrations of SAM to SAH are important in determining the > methylation capacity. > > 5-CH3-THF: This is a measure of the concentration of 5-methyl > tetrahydrofolate in the blood plasma. It is normally the most > abundant form of folate in the blood plasma. It is the form that > serves as a reactant for the enzyme methionine synthase, and is thus > the most important form for the methylation cycle. Many PWCs have a > low value, consistent with a partial block in the methylation cycle. > The simplified treatment approach includes FolaPro, which is > commercially produced 5-CH3-THF, so that when this treatment is used, > this value rises in nearly every PWC. If the concentration of 5-CH3- > THF is within the reference range, but either SAM or the ratio of SAM > to SAH is below the reference values, it suggests that there is a > partial methylation cycle block and that it is caused by > unavailability of sufficient bioactive B12, rather than > unavailability of sufficient folate. I have seen this frequently, > and I think it demonstrates that the " hijacking " of B12 is the root > cause of most cases of partial methylation cycle block. Usually > glutathione is low in these cases, which is consistent with lack of > protection for B12, as well as with toxin buildup. > > 10-Formyl-THF: This is a measure of the concentration of 10-formyl > tetrahydrofolate in the blood plasma. It is usually on the low side in PWCs. > This form of folate is involved in reactions to form purines, which > form part of RNA and DNA as well as ATP. > > 5-Formyl-THF: This is a measure of the concentration of 5-formyl > tetrahydrofolate (also called folinic acid) in the blood plasma. > Most but not all PWCs have a value on the low side. This form is not used > directly as a substrate in one-carbon transfer reactions, but it can > be converted into other forms of folate. It is one of the > supplements in the simplified treatment approach, which helps to > build up various other forms of folate. > > THF: This is a measure of the concentration of tetrahydrofolate in > the blood plasma. In PWCs it is lower than the mean normal value of 3.7 > nanomoles per liter in most but not all PWCs. This is the > fundamental chemically reduced form of folate from which several > other reduced folate forms are made. The supplement folic acid is > converted into THF by two sequential reactions catalyzed by > dihydrofolate reductase (DHFR). THF is also a product of the > reaction of the methionine synthase enzyme, and it is a reactant in > the reaction that converts formiminoglutamate (figlu) into > glutamate. If figlu is high in the Genova Diagnostics Metabolic > Analysis Profile, it indicates that THF is low. > > Folic acid: This is a measure of the concentration of folic acid in > the blood plasma. Low values suggest folic acid deficiency in the > current diet. High values are sometimes associated with inability to > convert folic acid into other forms of folate, such as because of > polymorphisms in the DHFR enzyme. They may also be due to high > supplementation of folic acid. > > Folinic acid (WB): This is a measure of the concentration of folinic > acid in the whole blood. See comments on 5-formyl-THF above. It > usually tracks with the plasma 5-formyl-THF concentration. > > Folic acid (RBC): This is a measure of the concentration of folic > acid in the red blood cells. The red blood cells import folic acid > when they are initially being formed, but during most of their > approximately four-month life, they do not normally import, export, or use > it. They simply serve as reservoirs for it, giving it up when they > are broken down. Many PWCs have low values. This can be > caused by a low folic acid status in the diet over the previous few > months, since the population of RBCs at any time has ages ranging > from zero to about four months. However, in CFS it can also be > caused by damage to the cell membranes, which allows folic acid to > leak out of the cells. Dr. Audhya reports that treatment with omega- > 3 fatty acids can raise this value over time. > > Best regards, > > Rich > > > > > > > > > > Anyone have any experience with Liposomal Vitmain C? > > > > My Doc recommends it for Oxidative Stress > > > > I have been using it and benefit but it hypes me a little and I have a hard time getting to sleep at night even if I use it very early in the day I reduced my dose to a fraction of the Docs recommendations but it is so powerful > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 26, 2011 Report Share Posted December 26, 2011 Hi, Steve. Yes, chronic infection will place a load on glutathione. I'm glad to hear that the antibiotics are helping. I hope you will use some probiotics to replace helpful bacteria in the gut that the antibiotics may knock out. I don't know about permanent defects in the methylation cycle. You may have some genomic polymorphisms that hinder it some, but it should be possible to get it working well enough. Perhaps when the infection is cleared, it will be able to settle down and operate more normally without so much support. Best regards, Rich > > > > > > > > > > Anyone have any experience with Liposomal Vitmain C? > > > > > My Doc recommends it for Oxidative Stress > > > > > I have been using it and benefit but it hypes me a little and I have a hard time getting to sleep at night even if I use it very early in the day I reduced my dose to a fraction of the Docs recommendations but it is so powerful > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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