Sleep

[Guest guest]

Hi Tiffani,

Our son is not quite 2.5yrs old and has sleep issues also. He doesn't nap

well to start with. When he actually naps they are long 3 hour naps but most of

the time he won't nap and runs around exhausted. When he is sick he has trouble

falling asleep at night. This usually starts a day or two before and lasts that

long after. He'll end up staying awake so late that he will sleep in later in

the morning. Then this starts a cycle of a late night. I barely get him back

on schedule before he is sick again (he fevers every 2 weeks). You are not

alone with the sleeping difficulty. I used to get so frustrated and try to make

him go to sleep, but it only made him upset. It seems like he just can't sleep.

So now, I either stay up later with him, read to him and do things that are

quiet play, no running around, sitting type things - puzzles, legos, or hold him

while watching a kids movie. Or, especially now that I have a newborn,

sometimes I let him sleep with us if he

can't sleep. He mostly lays there in one position for awhile trying to go to

sleep. Then he'll move around to another position for hours before he can fall

asleep. I have to get up to feed our 2 month old early AM so I tend to nod in

and out while he is laying there. But I wake up if he moves too much or want to

get off the bed. He does this at night when he is sick even without a nap

during the day. I have even given him a bath at 11pm at night before to try to

help him sleep. It worked, but I don't want to get in the habit of it because

he really likes his baths and I don't want him staying up late to get another

one. Frustrating.

Tyler has a bad stomach when sick. He used to not eat at all. Some episodes

are better than others nowadays. He loves bread, so I usually try toast with

butter on it. I usually try alot of things before I find what he is willing to

eat. He likes bananas and I can usually get about 1/2 of one down if the timing

is right between medicine. If the fever is going to come up soon he won't touch

anything, sometimes even water. His fevers climb very quickly and have caused

him to vomit alot. He has gotten better with that, but it still happens. I

usually try to give him some sort of food just as the fever comes down (that way

it is mostly digested before the next spike incase he vomits, but enough is

there to help his stomach feel better). Earth's Best makes

crackers....Crunchin' Crackers Original with Elmo on the front. They are by the

baby food/toddler food. He likes those alot. I tasted them and they are similar

to a Ritz cracker, not real salty with a buttery

flavor. I also feed him oatmeal (plain with banana mashed in it or Yobaby

yogurt for flavor). Even for dinner sometimes when he is sick. He won't touch

meat during a fever. Sometimes he will eat potatoes like tater tots, hash

browns, or french fries. And corn chips sometimes, but not if his throat is

hurting which is happening more often with large tonsils. Atleast it is

something on his stomach.

He has always had a really hard time with Motrin. We don't use it anymore.

We saw a pediatric rheumatologist at UC San Francisco's Children's Hospital when

he was 15 months old. She put him on Naproxen liquid. He takes it every day AM

and PM doses 12hrs apart. The MD said it stops the fevers for some children and

for others it lowers the temp and overall degree of the episode. For Tyler it

has dropped his fevers from always rising to 105-106 even with alternating

Motrin and Tylenol to usually 102 and sometimes 103. He used to throw up every

episode usually about 3 times. Since the naproxen he only throws up once in

awhile. He eats some food now where before he would only have a some milk or

some water.

Naproxen is known as the over the counter Aleve anti-inflammatory tablets

usually used for arthritis. It is in the same class as Motrin. They don't make

OTC for kids so we have a prescription for it. I worry about giving it to him

every day, but during his episodes he takes less medicine and the fevers are

better controlled. I give it to him every AM mixed in a small amount of his

oatmeal that I feed him first to make sure he gets it all. In the PM I usually

mix it in pudding or applesauce. That way I know he has food on his stomach.

We moved recently and have a new Pediatrician. He is familiar with and

had no problem with the Naproxen. He said children with Rheumatoid Arthritis

take it for inflammation (which is what the PFS fevers are) and that he prefers

it over prednisone because it is a steroid.

The original prescribing MD said if you could predict the fever well enough to

give it a few days before that it may work that way also instead of every day.

I tried doing that and it didn't work for him.

Anyway...sorry for the long entry. I totally understand where you are at, and

I worry about him starting school.

Hope this helped you a little.

Pruden

mother to Tyler 2.5yrs old (fevering since 3 months old) undetermined PFS

mother to Dylan 2 months old

Vancouver WA

[Guest guest]

Hi Tiffani,

Our 2 1/2 year old daughter suffers from sleep disturbances before, during and

after an episode. Our daughter has been a solid sleeper since she was very

young, so when these episodes began at 6 months her sleeping issues were always

the first indication of something coming on. As time went on, she always started

a fever in the middle of the night.

Things have changed a bit in the sense that she doesn't seem to begin a fever

in the night, but she seems to wake during the night for an evening or two

before the fever starts. As a result of the fevers, she has difficulty napping

for long periods of time. After an episode, she seems to take a few days to get

back into her regular sleeping pattern, having a few days of very long naps. We

just let her sleep as much as she wants, and hope that her routine will be back

before long.

As for the abdominal issues, our daughter has only recently began to show

evidence of discomfort. She had issues with vomiting at a younger age, but that

seemed to be more so when her fevers were really high - also at times a reaction

to the Tylenol / Advil.

I have noticed in recent episodes that she holds her tummy and sleeps in a

fetal position - something she only seems to do when she is in an episode. I

have asked her if she has an upset tummy and only on occasion has she said " yes'

-unfortunately she is only beginning to be able to communicate with us how she

is feeling. I do notice that she appers more gassy during an episode.

As for the school issue - this is something my husband and I have been giving

significant thought to recently. Although our daughter won't be starting school

for another year, I too worry about all the time she will miss and how will will

cope. At present time she is in a preschool a couple of mornings a week, just

for social interaction and if she misses days it's not a big deal. We have given

some thought to private schools or Montessori schools.

I would love to hear others thoughts on this as well.

Sorry, I'm not much in offering suggestions - I read your post and felt as

though I was experiencing much of the same issues you were and wanted to

respond.

Regards,

[Guest guest]

Tony,When someone has " sleep problems " , it's valuable to try to specify in more detail just exactly what that means.  Of the most common varieties, there are sleep-onset insomnia, terminal insomnia and non-refreshing sleep.  There are some other options that are rarer and more complicated to train.

When we are awake, the brain should be producing alpha and beta frequencies.  That would be stage 0 sleep.When we get ready to sleep, we move into Stage1 sleep:  eyes-closed, relaxing, ready to fall asleep.  We see the EEG slow down from alpha and beta to theta frequencies.

Stage2 sleep is when you actually go unconscious. In the EEG we see what are called " sleep spindles " (bursts of SMR) and K-complexes, both of which are involved with relaxing and calming the body.After some time in a relatively light Stage2 theta sleep, we drift down into Stage3, where the theta slows down into delta and we enter a deep and profound sleep, much like a coma. This is when physical restoration occurs.

5-6 times a night most brains rise from this deep state into Stage4, or REM, sleep, where we produce rapid eye movements and dream--the psychologically-restorative sleep.  In REM the EEG produces lots of alpha a beta, such that it's often very difficult to tell from the EEG whether the client is awake or asleep.

From REM, the brain returns to Stage2 and starts the process again.If a client has sleep onset insomnia--can't fall asleep--there are two EEG patterns which can be the culprits.  Low levels of SMR is a common one and training to improve the brain's ability to shift out of very slow and/or very fast activity into SMR will often resolve this quite quickly.  The other possibility is an anxiety-related pattern:  excessive beta or high-beta on the left or in the back or very low alpha.  Restless sleepers, teeth-grinders, restless-leg sufferers are often in this category (especially the low-SMR category).

If the client has terminal insomnia, they fall asleep okay and sleep for 3-5 hours, then wake up and can't go back to sleep for anything.  They lie awake thinking and ruminating.  This is almost always related to excessive beta in the back of the head.  If there is good alpha/theta ratio at P4, try training down the fast activity there.  If not, try training up the alpha there.

Clients who fall asleep easily (often in the training chair) and sleep through the night (or wake up and fall asleep again several times during the night) but have a difficult time waking up and never feel rested usually have excessive slow activity--an inability to produce useful beta/alpha states.  The more dominant the slow waves in the waking state, the less likely they wake up at all during the night--they go into a coma--but they never get into the psychologically-resorative sleep and hence never feel rested (and often have difficulty processing things into long-term memory.)  If they are able to produce some beta, they start into REM and then wake up just enough to recall a scrap of a dream, then tumble back down.

See what you have in this case and try to train to fix that, and you should help the sleep problems.Pete-- Van Deusenpvdtlc@...http://www.brain-trainer.com

USA 305 433 3160BR 47 3346 6235The Learning Curve, Inc.

On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 10:34 PM, Tony <karyn.tony@...> wrote:

I know this issue has been covered so many times but here I go again. I have a 67 yr old women that has chronic sleep problems. What I am seeing is that the more she tends to relax the faster her brain goes. The main areas seem to be at C3, C4 she teaches dance and gets really anxious when she has to teach. Every night she gets anxous wondering if she will sleep which starts her cycle over again. She easly falls asleep in my chair during training sessions. Within a few minutes she nods off. I have tried A/T training at P4, tried Window squashes for the hot temporals. Am at the moment trying left right reversals and SMR training at CZ C4. I have also done some alpha coherence up at P3, P4. She has had these issues for many years, has been unable to work continuosly because of it. She went went through a marriage break up and a daughter died. She has tried everthing since then all the normal routes of sleeping pills counciling etc. She says she is feeling change with the training we are doing. Any help would be appreciated.

[Guest guest]

Thanks Pete it’s the anxiety induced sleeplessness so yes am

doing SMR and training beta down at the back with a couple of protocols

suggested by another member of the list.

Cheers Tony

From:

[mailto: ] On Behalf

Of Van Deusen

Sent: Monday, 20 July 2009 11:57 a.m.

Subject: Re: Sleep

Tony,

When someone has " sleep problems " , it's valuable to try to specify in

more detail just exactly what that means. Of the most common varieties,

there are sleep-onset insomnia, terminal insomnia and non-refreshing

sleep. There are some other options that are rarer and more complicated

to train.

When we are awake, the brain should be producing alpha and beta

frequencies. That would be stage 0 sleep.

When we get ready to sleep, we move into Stage1 sleep: eyes-closed,

relaxing, ready to fall asleep. We see the EEG slow down from alpha and

beta to theta frequencies.

Stage2 sleep is when you actually go unconscious. In the EEG we see what are

called " sleep spindles " (bursts of SMR) and K-complexes, both of

which are involved with relaxing and calming the body.

After some time in a relatively light Stage2 theta sleep, we drift down into

Stage3, where the theta slows down into delta and we enter a deep and profound

sleep, much like a coma. This is when physical restoration occurs.

5-6 times a night most brains rise from this deep state into Stage4, or REM,

sleep, where we produce rapid eye movements and dream--the psychologically-restorative

sleep. In REM the EEG produces lots of alpha a beta, such that it's often

very difficult to tell from the EEG whether the client is awake or asleep.

From REM, the brain returns to Stage2 and starts the process again.

If a client has sleep onset insomnia--can't fall asleep--there are two EEG

patterns which can be the culprits. Low levels of SMR is a common one and

training to improve the brain's ability to shift out of very slow and/or very

fast activity into SMR will often resolve this quite quickly. The other

possibility is an anxiety-related pattern: excessive beta or high-beta on

the left or in the back or very low alpha. Restless sleepers,

teeth-grinders, restless-leg sufferers are often in this category (especially

the low-SMR category).

If the client has terminal insomnia, they fall asleep okay and sleep for 3-5

hours, then wake up and can't go back to sleep for anything. They lie

awake thinking and ruminating. This is almost always related to excessive

beta in the back of the head. If there is good alpha/theta ratio at P4,

try training down the fast activity there. If not, try training up the

alpha there.

Clients who fall asleep easily (often in the training chair) and sleep through

the night (or wake up and fall asleep again several times during the night) but

have a difficult time waking up and never feel rested usually have excessive

slow activity--an inability to produce useful beta/alpha states. The more

dominant the slow waves in the waking state, the less likely they wake up at

all during the night--they go into a coma--but they never get into the

psychologically-resorative sleep and hence never feel rested (and often have

difficulty processing things into long-term memory.) If they are able to

produce some beta, they start into REM and then wake up just enough to recall a

scrap of a dream, then tumble back down.

See what you have in this case and try to train to fix that, and you should

help the sleep problems.

Pete

--

Van Deusen

pvdtlc@...

http://www.brain-trainer.com

USA 305 433 3160

BR 47 3346 6235

The Learning Curve, Inc.

On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 10:34 PM, Tony <karyn.tony@...> wrote:

I know this issue has been covered

so many times but here I go again. I have a 67 yr old women that has chronic

sleep problems. What I am seeing is that the more she tends to relax the faster

her brain goes. The main areas seem to be at C3, C4 she teaches dance and gets

really anxious when she has to teach. Every night she gets anxous wondering if

she will sleep which starts her cycle over again. She easly falls asleep in my

chair during training sessions. Within a few minutes she nods off. I have tried

A/T training at P4, tried Window squashes for the hot temporals. Am at the

moment trying left right reversals and SMR training at CZ C4. I have also done

some alpha coherence up at P3, P4. She has had these issues for many years, has

been unable to work continuosly because of it. She went went through a marriage

break up and a daughter died. She has tried everthing since then all the normal

routes of sleeping pills counciling etc. She says she is feeling change with

the training we are doing. Any help would be appreciated.

[Guest guest]

Lynn,

Is this the same thing you just mentioned?

http://www.drnatura.com/kleritea.php

-D.

> >

> > I lost my ability to sleep naturally without supplements. Also, I have high

anexity. Does my sleep come back after Dr. Staninger's protocol? And does the

anexity go away?

> >

>

[Guest guest]

You might want to take a look at the Level 2 workshop (Assessment and Training Planning)http://www.brain-trainer.com/cgi-bin/shop.pl?shop=get_item & item_id=69

It covers most of the answers to most of the questions you've been asking.Yes, there is a difference in people who can't fall asleep, those who are very active sleepers, those who grind their teeth or have restless legs, those who wet the bed, those who wake a lot during the night, those who sleep easily and wake up and can't go back to sleep, those who sleep lots but never feel rested, those who can't wake up in the morning.  There are different EEG patterns for many of those behavior patterns, and you train them differently.

Pete-- Van Deusenpvdtlc@...http://www.brain-trainer.comUSA'>http://www.brain-trainer.comUSA 305 433 3160BR 47 3346 6235

The Learning Curve, Inc.

On Sun, Jan 3, 2010 at 6:42 PM, <arfellows@...> wrote:

 

Hi,

I am wondering what some of the recommended protocols that exist for sleep.  Are there differences for going to sleep,  staying asleep, and waking up tired.  I have trouble going to sleep which has been enhanced by eating carbs near bedtime and taking melatonin.  The biggest problem is staying asleep long enough to get in 8 hours which I think I need.  I tend to wake up after 5.5 or 6 hours.

 

Things have been much better since I have been trying to raise alpha at the back of my head.  Also, I have been training for alpha coherence at back of my head.  My sleep feels better.  I am remembering dreams which I had not been doing before.  My dreams are very active now and  I wonder if this is a good thing.

 

I also have some high beta centrally and frontally. 

 

So I thinking if there are difference in training to go to sleep, stay asleep, and wake up refreshed that I might need to do 2 or 3 protocols to get a my sleep.

 

Rolland

 

Rolland Fellows, PhD4131 Spicewood SpringsSuite G-6 Austin, Tx 78759wk 512-346-1796hm 512-467-9911  

In a message dated 1/3/2010 12:47:50 P.M. Central Standard Time, pvdtlc@... writes:

 

EMG is usually defined as 20-200 Hz, though obviously there are losts of EEG signals in that range as well.  If you grit your teeth while recording EEG, you'll see a surge in nearly all frequencies, but the higher the frequency the greater the artifact.  Since most amplifiers have lowpass filters built into them to cut off very high frequencies like this, depending on what amp you are using, you may be thinking you are training a frequency your amplifier can't even see.Pete-- Van Deusenpvdtlc@...http://www.brain-trainer.com

USA 305 433 3160BR 47 3346 6235The Learning Curve, Inc.

[Guest guest]

You might want to take a look at the Level 2 workshop (Assessment and Training Planning)http://www.brain-trainer.com/cgi-bin/shop.pl?shop=get_item & item_id=69

It covers most of the answers to most of the questions you've been asking.Yes, there is a difference in people who can't fall asleep, those who are very active sleepers, those who grind their teeth or have restless legs, those who wet the bed, those who wake a lot during the night, those who sleep easily and wake up and can't go back to sleep, those who sleep lots but never feel rested, those who can't wake up in the morning.  There are different EEG patterns for many of those behavior patterns, and you train them differently.

Pete-- Van Deusenpvdtlc@...http://www.brain-trainer.comUSA'>http://www.brain-trainer.comUSA 305 433 3160BR 47 3346 6235

The Learning Curve, Inc.

On Sun, Jan 3, 2010 at 6:42 PM, <arfellows@...> wrote:

 

Hi,

I am wondering what some of the recommended protocols that exist for sleep.  Are there differences for going to sleep,  staying asleep, and waking up tired.  I have trouble going to sleep which has been enhanced by eating carbs near bedtime and taking melatonin.  The biggest problem is staying asleep long enough to get in 8 hours which I think I need.  I tend to wake up after 5.5 or 6 hours.

 

Things have been much better since I have been trying to raise alpha at the back of my head.  Also, I have been training for alpha coherence at back of my head.  My sleep feels better.  I am remembering dreams which I had not been doing before.  My dreams are very active now and  I wonder if this is a good thing.

 

I also have some high beta centrally and frontally. 

 

So I thinking if there are difference in training to go to sleep, stay asleep, and wake up refreshed that I might need to do 2 or 3 protocols to get a my sleep.

 

Rolland

 

Rolland Fellows, PhD4131 Spicewood SpringsSuite G-6 Austin, Tx 78759wk 512-346-1796hm 512-467-9911  

In a message dated 1/3/2010 12:47:50 P.M. Central Standard Time, pvdtlc@... writes:

 

EMG is usually defined as 20-200 Hz, though obviously there are losts of EEG signals in that range as well.  If you grit your teeth while recording EEG, you'll see a surge in nearly all frequencies, but the higher the frequency the greater the artifact.  Since most amplifiers have lowpass filters built into them to cut off very high frequencies like this, depending on what amp you are using, you may be thinking you are training a frequency your amplifier can't even see.Pete-- Van Deusenpvdtlc@...http://www.brain-trainer.com

USA 305 433 3160BR 47 3346 6235The Learning Curve, Inc.

[Guest guest]

Hi Everyone,

 

I have a terrible time falling asleep.  For years, I have taken 10-15 mg. of

Seniquan (Doxepin) plus about 1/2 mg. of Xanax at bedtime.  That works for a few

months then in order to not increase the dosage for it to keep working, I stop

it for about a month.  During that time, I take valerian root or passion flower

plus a Tylenol PM.  It barely helps so for that month, I get lousy sleep.  After

a month or so off the Doxepin and Xanax, I start over and it works again. 

 

I've tried melatonin, seratonin, and a number of herbals from the health food

store without success.  Ambien has been suggested by my doctor.  I'm leary of it

being habitforming as I need something every night not once in a while.  Have

any of you taken it and if so, how do yoo like it?  Doxepin is so safe compared

to most prescription drugs.  Xanax I'm not too comfortable with.  I

justify taking it in this small dose only.  I'm at the point now where I need to

stop both.  When I start again, I plan to leave the Xanax out and just take the

Doxepin.  That used to work for me all by itself.

 

I'm sure many of us share this problem with falling asleep.  Please share

what works best for you?  Thanks,  Kay   

[Guest guest]

I take 1mg of klonopin, 25 mg elivil, at night. I find that taking 3mg of low

does naltrexone in the morning helps also. joyce

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Hi Everyone,

>  

> I have a terrible time falling asleep.  For years, I have taken 10-15 mg. of

Seniquan (Doxepin) plus about 1/2 mg. of Xanax at bedtime.  That works for a few

months then in order to not increase the dosage for it to keep working, I stop

it for about a month.  During that time, I take valerian root or passion flower

plus a Tylenol PM.  It barely helps so for that month, I get lousy sleep.  After

a month or so off the Doxepin and Xanax, I start over and it works again. 

>  

> I've tried melatonin, seratonin, and a number of herbals from the health food

store without success.  Ambien has been suggested by my doctor.  I'm leary of it

being habitforming as I need something every night not once in a while.  Have

any of you taken it and if so, how do yoo like it?  Doxepin is so safe compared

to most prescription drugs.  Xanax I'm not too comfortable with.  I

justify taking it in this small dose only.  I'm at the point now where I need to

stop both.  When I start again, I plan to leave the Xanax out and just take the

Doxepin.  That used to work for me all by itself.

>  

> I'm sure many of us share this problem with falling asleep.  Please share

what works best for you?  Thanks,  Kay   

>

>

[Guest guest]

Kay, I know you have done extensive work on your recovery. Are you on

bio-identical hormones---or natural thyroid---or cortisol?? Those three might

reset some of the sleep needs. Have you had a sleep study? My CPAP helps me

stay asleep. I use Benadryl, and melatonin night. I also have a quirky

sleeping habit, from my insomnia days. I put on TV Nick At Night----cover the

screen----hook ear plugs to TV---and fall asleep to the drown of the situation

comedys. If I wake, my mind goes to the episode at hand---and again fall right

to sleep. I KNOW it's weird, but served me well!!!

God Bless,

Sara

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Hi Everyone,

> >  

> > I have a terrible time falling asleep.  For years, I have taken 10-15 mg. of

Seniquan (Doxepin) plus about 1/2 mg. of Xanax at bedtime.  That works for a few

months then in order to not increase the dosage for it to keep working, I stop

it for about a month.  During that time, I take valerian root or passion flower

plus a Tylenol PM.  It barely helps so for that month, I get lousy sleep.  After

a month or so off the Doxepin and Xanax, I start over and it works again. 

> >  

> > I've tried melatonin, seratonin, and a number of herbals from the health

food store without success.  Ambien has been suggested by my doctor.  I'm leary

of it being habitforming as I need something every night not once in a while. 

Have any of you taken it and if so, how do yoo like it?  Doxepin is so safe

compared to most prescription drugs.  Xanax I'm not too comfortable with.  I

justify taking it in this small dose only.  I'm at the point now where I need to

stop both.  When I start again, I plan to leave the Xanax out and just take the

Doxepin.  That used to work for me all by itself.

> >  

> > I'm sure many of us share this problem with falling asleep.  Please share

what works best for you?  Thanks,  Kay   

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Hi, everyone, - I don't usually post; just read, but regarding sleep issues, I

simply had to throw in my 2 cents worth. I've had CFS/FMS for over 25 years, so

have tried many things (natural) on myself to find relief for whatever is

happening in my body at the time. Re sleep issues, tried a prescription drug

once and after feeling the way I did the next morning, threw the whole bottle

out! After research, trial and error, I finally came up with a 'sleep formula'

that has been working for me for quite some time now. I take it about an hour

before I want to go to sleep. Keep in mind, that everybody's system is

different, and though this has worked for me, it may not work for the next

person. I will not resort to prescription drugs and their horrible side effects

again. I take many vitamins and herbs and that's fine for me. Anyway, here is

my sleep formula (I am not a doctor, so if you are under a doctor's care, you

may want to check with him/her first).

MY FMS PAIN FORMULA FOR SLEEP

1 Chlortab (antihistamine from WalMart) ‘Chlorpheniramine maleate’ (4

mg)

Note: A nurse with FMS discovered that taking this was most useful

In helping with sleep.

1 5-HTP 50 mg.

1 Melatonin 3 mg.

1 Magnesium & Calcium ((400 mg. Calicum/800 mg. Magnesium)

Combined.

(This is still working for me even after taking for several years).

jc