Re: Rich, Marti, Methylation

[Guest guest]

I'll do my best (hopefully Rich or someone will jump in)

This website has an easy to understand explanation:

" A " methyl " group is simply one carbon connected to three hydrogen atoms. It may

be written as CH3 with the 3 being a subscript.

" Methylation " is not just one specific reaction. There are hundreds of

" methylation " reactions in the body. Methylation is simply the adding or removal

of the methyl group to a compound or other element.

So why do we care about methylation at all? In general, when some compounds

receive a methyl group, this " starts " a reaction (such as turning a gene on or

activating an enzyme). When the methyl group is " lost " or removed, the reaction

stops (or a gene is turned off or the enzyme is deactivated). Some of the more

relevant methylation reactions would be:

1. getting methyl groups " turns on " detox reactions that detox the body of

chemicals, including phenols. So if you are phenol sensitive, and you increase

your methylation, then theoretically your body can process more phenols and you

can eat fruits without enzymes!

2. getting methyl groups " turns on " serotonin, and thus melatonin, production.

Therefore, if you are a under-methylator, you can increase your methylation and

have higher more appropriate levels of serotonin and melatonin. This means you

may not have to take SSRIs, or may have improved sleep. "

http://www.enzymestuff.com/methylation.htm

________________________

Marti here:

This is, of course, oversimplification. The methylation pathway controls

production of glutathione which is why we are so interested in it. This pathway

also interacts with 4 other pathways which control neurotransmitters, the

endocrine system, the Kreb's cycle, etc. So, you can see how this can affect the

whole body.

Dr. Yasko/Rich and DAN! doctors have determined that you can bypass the genetic

mutation (SNP's single nucleotide polymorphisms)that is either causing the

methylation problem or being caused by the methylation problem by taking

bio-active supplements that are in the form the body needs. No conversion

necessary. They are very powerful since the body doesn't have to do anything to

use them which is why people start with tiny, tiny shavings or what they can

pick up from the end of a wet toothpick. Not everyone is that sensitive but you

should assume you are and work your way up.

This page shows the cycle that controls glut. production. This cycle also

relates to heart health.

http://www.peds.ufl.edu/divisions/genetics/programs/autism_card/methylation.htm

Here is a nice diagram (well, somewhat complex) but it shows how these systems

work like gears. When one is off, the others get off track. This page shows the

5 cycles together: (from Dr. Yasko's website)

http://www.knowyourgenetics.com/The%20Methylation%20Pathway_files/diagram-1.jpg

In regards to your last question, not everyone needs methylation help in the

same area and the same amount. The variations are due to the varying genetic

makeup we each have. I would be very surprised if anyone who had ME/CFS did not

have some methylation problems. Autstic children have these issues and we as a

group are benefiting from their experiences. I am at my best now by following

the autistic dietary restrictions, taking supplements for autistic kids,

following the restrictions of Yasko/Rich protocol. Truly amazing to me that I

hesitate to push the detox but I will do that someday.

Rather than go on, let me stop here and let you ask questions if you have any.

It can be complex but I personally believe that by knowing your starting point,

you can target a protocol more finely tuned to you.

HTH,

Marti

>

> I have read about methylation and don't understand it.  Could either or both

of you explain in simple terms what methylation is, why it's important in CFS,

and if all of us need methylation help?  Thank-you.  Kay

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi, Kay.

I think Marti has already explained what methylation is very well.

Nearly all PWMEs/PWCs who have taken the Health Diagostics and Research

Institute methylation pathways panel have been found to have a partial

methylation cycle block. I'm beginning to believe that this panel would make a

good biomarker for ME/CFS.

In most cases, the partial methylation cycle block is associated with

glutathione depletion, a functional deficiency in vitamin B12, and draining of

folate from the cells. This combination is the vicious circle mechanism that I

believe is what makes ME/CFS a chronic condition.

The methylation cycle is present in all cells (not counting the red blood cells,

which are different in a lot of ways). I think that the fundamental importance

of the methylation cycle to so much of the biochemistry of the body is the

reason why there are so many symptoms in CFS, affecting a wide variety of

systems and organs.

There are several protocols now in use to treat the partial methylation cycle

block, and they are being used in autism and now also in Lyme disease, as well

as ME/CFS. The one I have posted here is one of them. The full Yasko treatment

program, on which it was based, is another. There are now over 11,000 people on

the Yasko internet forum at www.ch3nutrigenomics.com and people using these

treatments can also be found in the cfs_yasko group.

A protocol similar to the one I posted was subjected to a clinical study by Neil

, M.D., and myself, and was found to be a significant help to more than

two-thirds of the patients in the study.

More information can be found in the files section on the website of the

cfs_yasko group:

CFS_Yasko/

Bsst regards,

Rich

>

> I have read about methylation and don't understand it.  Could either or both

of you explain in simple terms what methylation is, why it's important in CFS,

and if all of us need methylation help?  Thank-you.  Kay

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Marti, this is very helpful. Question. Does all detoxification involve

methylation, or is it just certain things? (In other words, do only certain

types of compounds use the methylation process, or do all of them?) The

question came up for me when I learned that I may not be detoxifying bromine

well. I wasn't sure if that would involve methylation or not.

Thanks!

Doris

Re: Rich, Marti, Methylation

I'll do my best (hopefully Rich or someone will jump in)

This website has an easy to understand explanation:

" A " methyl " group is simply one carbon connected to three hydrogen atoms. It

may be written as CH3 with the 3 being a subscript.

" Methylation " is not just one specific reaction. There are hundreds of

" methylation " reactions in the body. Methylation is simply the adding or removal

of the methyl group to a compound or other element.

So why do we care about methylation at all? In general, when some compounds

receive a methyl group, this " starts " a reaction (such as turning a gene on or

activating an enzyme). When the methyl group is " lost " or removed, the reaction

stops (or a gene is turned off or the enzyme is deactivated). Some of the more

relevant methylation reactions would be:

1. getting methyl groups " turns on " detox reactions that detox the body of

chemicals, including phenols. So if you are phenol sensitive, and you increase

your methylation, then theoretically your body can process more phenols and you

can eat fruits without enzymes!

2. getting methyl groups " turns on " serotonin, and thus melatonin, production.

Therefore, if you are a under-methylator, you can increase your methylation and

have higher more appropriate levels of serotonin and melatonin. This means you

may not have to take SSRIs, or may have improved sleep. "

http://www.enzymestuff.com/methylation.htm

________________________

Marti here:

This is, of course, oversimplification. The methylation pathway controls

production of glutathione which is why we are so interested in it. This pathway

also interacts with 4 other pathways which control neurotransmitters, the

endocrine system, the Kreb's cycle, etc. So, you can see how this can affect the

whole body.

Dr. Yasko/Rich and DAN! doctors have determined that you can bypass the

genetic mutation (SNP's single nucleotide polymorphisms)that is either causing

the methylation problem or being caused by the methylation problem by taking

bio-active supplements that are in the form the body needs. No conversion

necessary. They are very powerful since the body doesn't have to do anything to

use them which is why people start with tiny, tiny shavings or what they can

pick up from the end of a wet toothpick. Not everyone is that sensitive but you

should assume you are and work your way up.

This page shows the cycle that controls glut. production. This cycle also

relates to heart health.

http://www.peds.ufl.edu/divisions/genetics/programs/autism_card/methylation.htm

Here is a nice diagram (well, somewhat complex) but it shows how these systems

work like gears. When one is off, the others get off track. This page shows the

5 cycles together: (from Dr. Yasko's website)

http://www.knowyourgenetics.com/The%20Methylation%20Pathway_files/diagram-1.jpg

In regards to your last question, not everyone needs methylation help in the

same area and the same amount. The variations are due to the varying genetic

makeup we each have. I would be very surprised if anyone who had ME/CFS did not

have some methylation problems. Autstic children have these issues and we as a

group are benefiting from their experiences. I am at my best now by following

the autistic dietary restrictions, taking supplements for autistic kids,

following the restrictions of Yasko/Rich protocol. Truly amazing to me that I

hesitate to push the detox but I will do that someday.

Rather than go on, let me stop here and let you ask questions if you have any.

It can be complex but I personally believe that by knowing your starting point,

you can target a protocol more finely tuned to you.

HTH,

Marti

>

> I have read about methylation and don't understand it. Could either or both

of you explain in simple terms what methylation is, why it's important in CFS,

and if all of us need methylation help? Thank-you. Kay

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi, Doris.

Not all detox depends on methylation. However, the detox mechanisms that depend

on methylation itself, or on sulfur-containing substances including glutathione,

cysteine, taurine or sulfate, do depend on methylation, because the methylation

cycle normally regulates the overall sulfur metabolism.

If bromine is present as methyl bromide, then glutathione conjugation is an

important detox mechanism, and it will depend on methylation.

I don't know how other chemical forms of bromine are detoxed. Perhaps you could

find out on PubMed, if you have a specific form that you're interested in.

Rich

> >

> > I have read about methylation and don't understand it. Could either or

both of you explain in simple terms what methylation is, why it's important in

CFS, and if all of us need methylation help? Thank-you. Kay

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Doris,

From what I understand bromine is a halide who's molecular weight is less than

iodine but more than chlorine & fluorine.

Fluorine relative atomic weight = 19

Chlorine = 35.5

Bromine = 80

Iodine = 127

Chlorine will " push " bromine out of the body. Bromine will crowd out iodine.

___________

Quote: " The critical activity of any one of these four halogens is in inverse

proportion to its atomic weight. This means that any one of the four can

displace the element with a higher atomic weight, but cannot displace an element

with a lower atomic weight. For example, fluorine can displace chlorine, bromine

and iodine because fluorine has a lower atomic weight than the other three.

Similarly, chlorine can displace bromine and iodine because they both have a

higher atomic weight. Likewise, bromine can displace iodine from the body

because iodine has a higher atomic weight. But a reverse order is not possible. "

___________

The descriptive name of these halides can be changed to fluoride, chloride,

bromide and iodide and thus chloride (as in sodium chloride) will push bromide

(aka bromine) out of the body. An internet search for bromine toxicity will

give you results showing that IV saline is used to treat actual bromine

toxicity.

Most likely you do not need to go to that extreme however in this modern day it

is not really as simple as using sodium chloride (as unrefined celtic sea salt)

for a short period of time and call it good. In our modern world we are

inundated with exposures to bromine/bromide and so the task is to figure out our

unique level, the unique daily exposures and an ongoing protocol to balance that

out.

In addition the bodies halide receptors have been using bromine instead of

iodine because bromine is crowding it out however iodine is needed for every

cell of the body and is most concentrated in the thyroid.

I encourage you to look at the books and information by Dr. Brownstein and

to join the group that discusses iodine & the iodine protocol recommended

by Dr. Brownstein. The site www.breastcancerchoices.org discusses the bromide

dominance theory and sells the products recommended in the Iodine Protocol as a

fundraiser for their organization, though these products are easily obtained

most anywhere.

Embarking on the iodine protocol does require that the detox pathways, including

the methylation pathway, be working well.

> >

> > Thanks Marti, this is very helpful. Question. Does all detoxification

involve methylation, or is it just certain things? (In other words, do only

certain types of compounds use the methylation process, or do all of them?) The

question came up for me when I learned that I may not be detoxifying bromine

well. I wasn't sure if that would involve methylation or not.

> >

> > Thanks!

> > Doris

(previous posts omitted from this response)

[Guest guest]

Hi Kachina

This is great information and an area that I have been meaning to try to

understand.

I wonder what your thoughts are on fluorine.

I eat a very un-processed diet, no sodas, boxed foods, no gluten or casein. BUT

I am taking Florinef 0.1mg for my POTS. I have tried to get off but if I do, I

end up getting up to go to the bathroom 8 times a night and my sleep suffers and

I start to go downhill.

I used to brush with non-fluoridated toothpaste and I drink distilled water

(with added minerals) but have had to switch to a sensitive teeth formula which

I cannot find without fluoride.

Is this amount of fluoride enough to push iodine out? I have thyroid issues but

have it under control somewhat.

heading over to look at the info you mentioned.

Thanks,

Marti

> > >

> > > Thanks Marti, this is very helpful. Question. Does all detoxification

involve methylation, or is it just certain things? (In other words, do only

certain types of compounds use the methylation process, or do all of them?) The

question came up for me when I learned that I may not be detoxifying bromine

well. I wasn't sure if that would involve methylation or not.

> > >

> > > Thanks!

> > > Doris

>

>

> (previous posts omitted from this response)

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Marti,

My thoughts on fluorine/fluoride are that it is very toxic to the body. And it

has the ability to displace all of the other halides, including iodine.

Looking at the ingredients of Florinef on rxlist.com it does have other scary

things too - corn starch, lactose, sodium benzoate & talc ... yikes!

I've been wondering myself what kinds of holistic alternatives there might be to

Florinef and the best that I come up with is Licorice Root and at least 1

teaspoon of unrefined celtic sea salt per day. I've been percolating on

whether or not licorice root alone could accomplish the job adequately or if

perhaps some adrenal glandular combined might be the ticket. I don't have any

experience to share so these are all just speculation. One of the most

compelling stories about using licorice root comes from Dr. Baschetti who used

fairly large doses and claimed this was his personal key for curing his chronic

fatigue.

Sorry to hear about your sensitive teeth ~ perhaps just simple baking soda would

suffice? Or the product called pHour salts by Dr. Young?

You are a pretty savvy researcher and I think that the information that you are

headed to will give you much better answers than I can attempt here.

I will shoot you one more website that you may have already stumbled upon anyway

....

www.naturalthyroidchoices.com. , the owner of that site is the

owner/moderator of the iodine forum and works closely with Dr. Brownstein

and the other iodine Dr.s/researchers.

Frequently people may think or have been told they are allergic to iodine

however a true iodine allergy is extremely, extremely rare and Dr. Brownstein

claims that this can be dealt with.

Feeling " worse " when beginning iodine is a bit like feeling worse when starting

the methylation protocol ... it's all about detox and the body re-arranging how

it functions because it finally has the element it has so desperately needed.

Also it is not as simple as taking iodine ~ the companion supplements are

required for proper utilization of iodine and vice versa. It's all connected.

> > > >

> > > > Thanks Marti, this is very helpful. Question. Does all detoxification

involve methylation, or is it just certain things? (In other words, do only

certain types of compounds use the methylation process, or do all of them?) The

question came up for me when I learned that I may not be detoxifying bromine

well. I wasn't sure if that would involve methylation or not.

> > > >

> > > > Thanks!

> > > > Doris

> >

> >

> > (previous posts omitted from this response)

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I had the same problem with sensitive teeth toothpaste. What I since learned is

that that stuff causes more trouble than it solves. I was " addicted " to it and

without it my teeth hurt badly all the item. Even with it they hurt sometimes

so I used to rub flouride on my roots. A densist gave me that because the

floride is supposed to fill the holes to the nerve endings, blah blah blah.

This was all before I got sick and learned not to trust pills and doctors.

Several years ago I switched to Life Extension toothpaste which is natural and

has antioxidants, and my teeth have never hurt again. Since then I have tried

another natural toothpaste and the same thing, no pain.

Doris

[Guest guest]

It would be the better known detox pathways that are not working well.

Liver is generally the first one that comes up to suspect needing support but

there is of course kidney, bowels, lymph and skin. As you may already know

bromides often come out through the skin creating a " bromide rash " or break

outs. When people mention that they are experiencing break outs the moderators

of the iodine forum suggest to use a bath of 1 cup of Epsom Salts + 1 cup of

Hydrogen Peroxide and also utilizing the salt loading protocol that is an

adjunct to the iodine protocol. But if you are already a member of the iodine

forum you probably have heard all of that too!

> > >

> > > Thanks Marti, this is very helpful. Question. Does all detoxification

involve methylation, or is it just certain things? (In other words, do only

certain types of compounds use the methylation process, or do all of them?) The

question came up for me when I learned that I may not be detoxifying bromine

well. I wasn't sure if that would involve methylation or not.

> > >

> > > Thanks!

> > > Doris

>

> (previous posts omitted from this response)

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I found a no-flouride sensitive teeth toothpaste that works great for me. It's

called Kiss My Face Sensitive toothpaste- cool orange mint. I was looking for a

non-flouride toothpaste for quite a while and found it at drugstore.com. Not

sure where else you can find it, but it was a life-saver for me.

http://www.drugstore.com/kiss-my-face-sensitive-toothpaste-cool-orange-mint-fres\

hness/qxp186968

Back to lurking....

> > > >

> > > > Thanks Marti, this is very helpful. Question. Does all detoxification

involve methylation, or is it just certain things? (In other words, do only

certain types of compounds use the methylation process, or do all of them?) The

question came up for me when I learned that I may not be detoxifying bromine

well. I wasn't sure if that would involve methylation or not.

> > > >

> > > > Thanks!

> > > > Doris

> >

> >

> > (previous posts omitted from this response)

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Doris, Zab and Kachina Creek,

Thanks for the tips on the toothpaste. It was very helpful. I can get Kiss my

Face locally (picked it up last month but didn't buy it as I didn't realize " no

fluoride " . I use their shampoo and soap as the products have less chemicals. I

can get this at my local super grocery store.

I will try the Life Extension as well.

I was desperate so I found a Tom's of Maine No fluoride kids' toothpaste and

that seems to be working too.

I really believe that my teeth sensitivity was caused by getting on the

Florinef.

I have now gotten off (Thanks Kachina Creek) and switched to licorice root and

although I had some bad days, I am stabilized now).

Thanks everyone - great help.

Marti

> >

> > Hi Kachina

> >

> > This is great information and an area that I have been meaning to try to

understand.

> >

> > I wonder what your thoughts are on fluorine.

> >

> > I eat a very un-processed diet, no sodas, boxed foods, no gluten or casein.

BUT I am taking Florinef 0.1mg for my POTS. I have tried to get off but if I

do, I end up getting up to go to the bathroom 8 times a night and my sleep

suffers and I start to go downhill.

> >

> > I used to brush with non-fluoridated toothpaste and I drink distilled water

(with added minerals) but have had to switch to a sensitive teeth formula which

I cannot find without fluoride.

> >

> > Is this amount of fluoride enough to push iodine out? I have thyroid issues

but have it under control somewhat.

> >

> > heading over to look at the info you mentioned.

> >

> > Thanks,

> > Marti

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Hi Marti

Which licorice product do you use? and what is your dosage?. I also need some

aldosterone support. Could not tolerate florinef and I also can not tolerate

licorice. licorice gives me insomnia and some hyperactivity after some built up.

I think I have salicylate sensitivity and don't know how to solve this problem.

salt is not enough for me at the moment.

best wishes

nil

Re: Rich, Marti, Methylation

Hi Doris, Zab and Kachina Creek,

Thanks for the tips on the toothpaste. It was very helpful. I can get Kiss

my Face locally (picked it up last month but didn't buy it as I didn't realize

" no fluoride " . I use their shampoo and soap as the products have less

chemicals. I can get this at my local super grocery store.

I will try the Life Extension as well.

I was desperate so I found a Tom's of Maine No fluoride kids' toothpaste and

that seems to be working too.

I really believe that my teeth sensitivity was caused by getting on the

Florinef.

I have now gotten off (Thanks

[Guest guest]

You might want to explore high oxalate foods with these symptoms. The

Trying_low-oxalate forum on , is a great resource----their files have lists

of the foods and such that effect body. I am amazed at my relief since going

low oxalate. The list in files also shows relation to salicylates.

God Bless,

Sara

>

> Hi Marti

>

> Which licorice product do you use? and what is your dosage?. I also need some

aldosterone support. Could not tolerate florinef and I also can not tolerate

licorice. licorice gives me insomnia and some hyperactivity after some built up.

I think I have salicylate sensitivity and don't know how to solve this problem.

salt is not enough for me at the moment.

> best wishes

> nil

> Re: Rich, Marti, Methylation

>

>

> Hi Doris, Zab and Kachina Creek,

>

> Thanks for the tips on the toothpaste. It was very helpful. I can get Kiss

my Face locally (picked it up last month but didn't buy it as I didn't realize

" no fluoride " . I use their shampoo and soap as the products have less

chemicals. I can get this at my local super grocery store.

>

> I will try the Life Extension as well.

>

> I was desperate so I found a Tom's of Maine No fluoride kids' toothpaste and

that seems to be working too.

>

> I really believe that my teeth sensitivity was caused by getting on the

Florinef.

>

> I have now gotten off (Thanks

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Nil,

All I have is Swansons' brand (which I like) but not sure if this is one of

those supplements that needs to be a certain brand (like D-ribose, which was

mentioned a few days ago).

I am taking 1.35 grams (3 capsules) each morning. I have had some urination

issues (increased frequency) but not as much as not taking everything.

I have to head to my endo for a full set of tests but haven't had the funds.

Renin and Aldosterone testing has been on my list of things to have done.

To be honest, I don't think most endos know what to do with these issues. I

haven't found one- I have thought maybe a kidney doctor.

Marti

I have not experienced hyperactivity or insomnia but I know I do not have

saliclyate sensitivity.

I also take Mobic 7.5mg and that helps my POTS as well. My neuro said it

shouldn't - she couldn't see the mechanism but when I take double (15mg which is

within the safe limit) I am EVEN better.

>

> Hi Marti

>

> Which licorice product do you use? and what is your dosage?. I also need some

aldosterone support. Could not tolerate florinef and I also can not tolerate

licorice. licorice gives me insomnia and some hyperactivity after some built up.

I think I have salicylate sensitivity and don't know how to solve this problem.

salt is not enough for me at the moment.

> best wishes

> nil

> Re: Rich, Marti, Methylation

>

>

> Hi Doris, Zab and Kachina Creek,

>

> Thanks for the tips on the toothpaste. It was very helpful. I can get Kiss

my Face locally (picked it up last month but didn't buy it as I didn't realize

" no fluoride " . I use their shampoo and soap as the products have less

chemicals. I can get this at my local super grocery store.

>

> I will try the Life Extension as well.

>

> I was desperate so I found a Tom's of Maine No fluoride kids' toothpaste and

that seems to be working too.

>

> I really believe that my teeth sensitivity was caused by getting on the

Florinef.

>

> I have now gotten off (Thanks

>

>

[Guest guest]

I'm going to second that Sara. I have been a member of that group and on the

low oxalate diet for 3 mos and have seen much much improvement.

Following their supplement protocol is important along with the diet which are:

No, or very low vit c not more than 250 mg a day, calcium citrate with every

meal and no other supplement with meals except cal citrate, lots of mag citrate

through out the day, arginine and biotin. I have noticed a real upswing in

energy since adding the biotin. I was reading a post last week on Corts forum,

not related to oxalate, where someone said biotin had helped their energy

improve and when they switched from biotin to d-biotin their energy increased

even more.

I was under the impression that people who have CFS and the co infections and

opportunistic pathogens viruses and retro viruses and toxins that we have

accumulated over years could only expect the oxalate issue to be a very small

part of our issues, but Owens the researcher who is the group owner and

oxalate expert said she does not think that this is necessarily so. She sited

her reason and said I just may be surprised at how much healing can take place

in the body once you get rid of oxalates. Keeping my fingers crossed.

I will say for any vegetarians and especially vegans this is an extremely

challenging diet. So many veggies are high oxalate. dolores

Re: Rich, Marti, Methylation

You might want to explore high oxalate foods with these symptoms. The

Trying_low-oxalate forum on , is a great resource----their files have lists

of the foods and such that effect body. I am amazed at my relief since going

low oxalate. The list in files also shows relation to salicylates.

God Bless,

Sara

>

> Hi Marti

>

> Which licorice product do you use? and what is your dosage?. I also need some

aldosterone support. Could not tolerate florinef and I also can not tolerate

licorice. licorice gives me insomnia and some hyperactivity after some built up.

I think I have salicylate sensitivity and don't know how to solve this problem.

salt is not enough for me at the moment.

> best wishes

> nil

> Re: Rich, Marti, Methylation

>

>

> Hi Doris, Zab and Kachina Creek,

>

> Thanks for the tips on the toothpaste. It was very helpful. I can get Kiss

my Face locally (picked it up last month but didn't buy it as I didn't realize

" no fluoride " . I use their shampoo and soap as the products have less

chemicals. I can get this at my local super grocery store.

>

> I will try the Life Extension as well.

>

> I was desperate so I found a Tom's of Maine No fluoride kids' toothpaste and

that seems to be working too.

>

> I really believe that my teeth sensitivity was caused by getting on the

Florinef.

>

> I have now gotten off (Thanks

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you Sara and Dolores

I also noticed that biotin is helping me. I have read at one place that PWC's

were low at biotin and at another place that it was helping with candida.

I am actually member of the oxalate group but could not manage to actively

involved in this subject. Thanks so much

nil

Re: Re: Rich, Marti, Methylation

I'm going to second that Sara. I have been a member of that group and on the

low oxalate diet for 3 mos and have seen much much improvement.

Following their supplement protocol is important along with the diet which

are: No, or very low vit c not more than 250 mg a day, calcium citrate with

every meal and no other supplement with meals except cal citrate, lots of mag

citrate through out the day, arginine and biotin. I have noticed a real upswing

in energy since adding the biotin. I was reading a post last week on Corts

forum, not related to oxalate, where someone said biotin had helped their energy

improve and when they switched from biotin to d-biotin their energy increased

even more.

I was under the