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Trying to slowly rid myself of prednisone, but my snails pace still brought down

the adrenals and thyroid requiring me to spike the prednisone dose again.

Now starting over with tapering off, I'm curious if any have found alternative

or supportive methods to taper or quit corticosteroids without crashing.

My only plan of action is to slowly introduce iodine as I decrease prednisone,

but I haven't heard of this being done and am in the lurch for alternatives.

On the side, the past two months of prednisone were for a back injury, not

adrenals. I'd also recovered from Lyme and CFS enough to return to full-time

work, but this current issue is threatening the progress I've made.

Thanks,

R

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Hi ,

Having just recently done this with hydrocortisone, maybe I can help a little.

There are various ways to boost the adrenals or support them.

The idodine will be most helpful to the thyroid but not sure how helpful for the

adrenal system. Here is what I am currently using:

For adrenals:

Licorice root upon waking.

Unprocessed sea salt upon waking and throughout day. I put 1/4 tsp under my

tongue and follow with 6 oz of water.

Rhodiola rosea and ashwangada after breakfast and again at lunch.

No caffeine, no phosyphytidyline serine, no stimulants. (can't give up chocolate

but wish I could. No MSG or other things that I am either allergic to or

sensitive to. Limit my exposure to propane and chemicals as they get my heart

rate up.

Lifestyle changes: No stress, living within my financial budget so I don't have

money stress, living within my energy budget so that I don't crash. Staying away

from friends/family that are high-maintenance. Working on early to bed (by 10pm)

and not rising till 9am (not going well since my circadian rhythym is so far

off).

Will supplement with 2.5 mg of hydrocortisone if I have overdone it during the

day so that I don't have the adrenaline dump into my system further stressing

the adrenals.

For Thyroid:

Tyrosine 500mg twice a day.

Thyroid T3 (cannot tolerate Armour at this time)

Iodine if needed

Iron if ferritin is below 50

That's all I can think of off the top of my head- hope some of this is helpful.

Marti

>

> Trying to slowly rid myself of prednisone, but my snails pace still brought

down the adrenals and thyroid requiring me to spike the prednisone dose again.

>

> Now starting over with tapering off, I'm curious if any have found alternative

or supportive methods to taper or quit corticosteroids without crashing.

>

> My only plan of action is to slowly introduce iodine as I decrease prednisone,

but I haven't heard of this being done and am in the lurch for alternatives.

>

> On the side, the past two months of prednisone were for a back injury, not

adrenals. I'd also recovered from Lyme and CFS enough to return to full-time

work, but this current issue is threatening the progress I've made.

>

> Thanks,

> R

>

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Share on other sites

Marti. I didn't know u had come off HC! Thats awesome. I would love nothing more

than to do this but not sure if i'll ever be able to. How long were you on it

before you weaned, and how long did it take?

I've been a little better lately than i used to be when the adrenals first

crashed. Been able to cook pretty much every day and been able to do more around

the house. Still barely going out though at all, and still only functional at

night.

This arv for example, i had a sleep then got the GF to drive me around the block

to put some items in the post box. I felt a little low before I left and didnt

take any extra HC. Was okish but still low. Got home, and within about 20 mins

felt myself start to crash and had to quickly dose another 5mg HC. Palps,

anxiety etc, all the very low cort crashy symptoms. I dont have these crashes

very often any more, which is great. But it reminds me how dependant I am just

doing something as small as that can send me crashing.

Hence the feeling that I may never get off HC. I find it a miracle if I hear of

people that can get off it.

~Chris.

----------------------

31, Male

5'9, 65kg (143lb)

Secondary AI, CFS/MCS/FM

35-37mg HC, 50mg Testogel

3g Licorice root,

Vit C, Mag, D3 & other supps.

Melbourne, Australia.

----------------------

> >

> > Trying to slowly rid myself of prednisone, but my snails pace still brought

down the adrenals and thyroid requiring me to spike the prednisone dose again.

> >

> > Now starting over with tapering off, I'm curious if any have found

alternative or supportive methods to taper or quit corticosteroids without

crashing.

> >

> > My only plan of action is to slowly introduce iodine as I decrease

prednisone, but I haven't heard of this being done and am in the lurch for

alternatives.

> >

> > On the side, the past two months of prednisone were for a back injury, not

adrenals. I'd also recovered from Lyme and CFS enough to return to full-time

work, but this current issue is threatening the progress I've made.

> >

> > Thanks,

> > R

> >

>

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Share on other sites

Thanks Marti for taking the time to give these explanations. Started w/

sublingual salt today & that helped me through a few periods. Will try a pinch

of licorice root in the morning and see if I can level the prednisone doses as

I'm still having to spike them occasionally. If I can regulate the prednisone

dose for a few days than I'll start slow with the iodine & plan on 6-8 weeks to

taper off the prednisone.

The steroids caused quite a stir with viruses, parasites and Lyme as they all

started replicating in the first two weeks of prednisone. 3 weeks ago I took a

somewhat caustic approach that only caused a week of herxing & no symptoms

since. I followed with aggressive detoxing, that no doubt accelerated the

adrenal and thyroid crashes. But despite some discomfort, zits and a beet red

face, I'm doing well and have kept an almost regular level of activity, save for

that spat of a crash this week.

A little over a year ago, before I joined these groups and started learning from

all of you, I was being repeatedly carted to the ER as a snotty vomiting mess to

be wrongly diagnosed w/ sinusitis over these same issues. They'd pump me with

every pain killer and nausea med they had which made no difference. It was

always the steroids that finally worked and they thought because of

inflammation, never endocronological. Cheers to our American Health Care, eh?

Thanks to you Marti and many others for helping to bring me along this far.

Best Wishes to All,

R

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi

I wanted to go one year but I had to get off in order to have some baseline

testing done. I finally found a good endocrinologist and thought it worth

dealing with her.

She is not American trained, she was trained in a Latin American country. I

think any doctors not trained in the US, are open to endocrine issues. Just my

opinion.

Anyway, for the nine months, I was up to 40mg of cortisol on bad/busy days and

30 mg on regular days. It didn't take long to taper down, I probably should have

taken longer though as I did have some issues.

I have been off since October 7th and can do without cortisol completely as long

as I don't overdo it. I have housebound, chairbound and I can do light activity

(cook 1 meal, take shower) per day. So if I go to get groceries or have a

lengthy phone conversation or do too much mental work, I do not have enough

cortisol

to make it till bedtime (palpitations, alertness - all the things adrenaline

does).

So now I am dosing with cortisol 2.5 mg as needed on those hard days. One day, I

had to use 5mg. Usually, it is around bedtime. But I can do a whole lot better

in the lifestyle changes - specifically, going to bed earlier.

I have found that I require more T3 once I stopped the cortisol so I am not

using it efficiently. Trying to stablize that before deciding the next step. I

would like to have a saliva cortisol run again before restarting cortisol or

determining my next step. I have not yet had the official diagnosis of Primary

or Secondary cortisol - need to have two more cortisol tests done.

But, honestly, I would not have a problem staying on cortisol. If I was required

to remain on cortisol for the rest of my life, I would be okay with that. I know

others disagree but I am ready to start living - whatever it takes. We each have

to make our own decisions that are right for our bodies and circumstances.

Marti

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In , " csharpham " <csharpham@...> wrote:

>

Marti. I didn't know u had come off HC! Thats awesome. I would love nothing more

than to do this but not sure if i'll ever be able to. How long were you on it

before you weaned, and how long did it take?

>

> I've been a little better lately than i used to be when the adrenals first

crashed. Been able to cook pretty much every day and been able to do more around

the house. Still barely going out though at all, and still only functional at

night.

>

> This arv for example, i had a sleep then got the GF to drive me around the

block to put some items in the post box. I felt a little low before I left and

didnt take any extra HC. Was okish but still low. Got home, and within about 20

mins felt myself start to crash and had to quickly dose another 5mg HC. Palps,

anxiety etc, all the very low cort crashy symptoms. I dont have these crashes

very often any more, which is great. But it reminds me how dependant I am just

doing something as small as that can send me crashing.

>

> Hence the feeling that I may never get off HC. I find it a miracle if I hear

of people that can get off it.

~Chris.

----------------------

31, Male

5'9, 65kg (143lb)

Secondary AI, CFS/MCS/FM

35-37mg HC, 50mg Testogel

3g Licorice root,

Vit C, Mag, D3 & other supps.

Melbourne, Australia.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In , " marti_zavala " <marti_zavala@> wrote:

Hi ,

> > Having just recently done this with hydrocortisone, maybe I can help a

little.

> >

> > There are various ways to boost the adrenals or support them.

> >

> > The idodine will be most helpful to the thyroid but not sure how helpful for

the adrenal system. Here is what I am currently using:

> >

> > For adrenals:

> >

> > Licorice root upon waking.

> > Unprocessed sea salt upon waking and throughout day. I put 1/4 tsp under my

tongue and follow with 6 oz of water.

> > Rhodiola rosea and ashwangada after breakfast and again at lunch.

> >

> > No caffeine, no phosyphytidyline serine, no stimulants. (can't give up

chocolate but wish I could. No MSG or other things that I am either allergic to

or sensitive to. Limit my exposure to propane and chemicals as they get my heart

rate up.

> >

> > Lifestyle changes: No stress, living within my financial budget so I don't

have money stress, living within my energy budget so that I don't crash. Staying

away from friends/family that are high-maintenance. Working on early to bed (by

10pm) and not rising till 9am (not going well since my circadian rhythym is so

far off).

> >

> > Will supplement with 2.5 mg of hydrocortisone if I have overdone it during

the day so that I don't have the adrenaline dump into my system further

stressing the adrenals.

> >

> > For Thyroid:

> > Tyrosine 500mg twice a day.

> > Thyroid T3 (cannot tolerate Armour at this time)

> > Iodine if needed

> > Iron if ferritin is below 50

That's all I can think of off the top of my head- hope some of this is helpful.

Marti

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In , " not4idiopathic " <jprutty@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Trying to slowly rid myself of prednisone, but my snails pace still

brought down the adrenals and thyroid requiring me to spike the prednisone dose

again.

> > >

> > > Now starting over with tapering off, I'm curious if any have found

alternative or supportive methods to taper or quit corticosteroids without

crashing.

> > >

> > > My only plan of action is to slowly introduce iodine as I decrease

prednisone, but I haven't heard of this being done and am in the lurch for

alternatives.

> > >

> > > On the side, the past two months of prednisone were for a back injury, not

adrenals. I'd also recovered from Lyme and CFS enough to return to full-time

work, but this current issue is threatening the progress I've made.

Thanks,

R

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Share on other sites

Hi

I wanted to go one year but I had to get off in order to have some baseline

testing done. I finally found a good endocrinologist and thought it worth

dealing with her.

She is not American trained, she was trained in a Latin American country. I

think any doctors not trained in the US, are open to endocrine issues. Just my

opinion.

Anyway, for the nine months, I was up to 40mg of cortisol on bad/busy days and

30 mg on regular days. It didn't take long to taper down, I probably should have

taken longer though as I did have some issues.

I have been off since October 7th and can do without cortisol completely as long

as I don't overdo it. I have housebound, chairbound and I can do light activity

(cook 1 meal, take shower) per day. So if I go to get groceries or have a

lengthy phone conversation or do too much mental work, I do not have enough

cortisol

to make it till bedtime (palpitations, alertness - all the things adrenaline

does).

So now I am dosing with cortisol 2.5 mg as needed on those hard days. One day,

I had to use 5mg. Usually, it is around bedtime. But I can do a whole lot

better in the lifestyle changes - specifically, going to bed earlier.

I have found that I require more T3 once I stopped the cortisol so I am not

using it efficiently. Trying to stablize that before deciding the next step. I

would like to have a saliva cortisol run again before restarting cortisol or

determining my next step. I have not yet had the official diagnosis of

Primary or Secondary cortisol - need to have two more cortisol tests done.

But, honestly, I would not have a problem staying on cortisol. If I was

required to remain on cortisol for the rest of my life, I would be okay with

that. I know others disagree but I am ready to start living - whatever it

takes. We each have to make our own decisions that are right for our bodies and

circumstances.

Marti

> > >

> > > Trying to slowly rid myself of prednisone, but my snails pace still

brought down the adrenals and thyroid requiring me to spike the prednisone dose

again.

> > >

> > > Now starting over with tapering off, I'm curious if any have found

alternative or supportive methods to taper or quit corticosteroids without

crashing.

> > >

> > > My only plan of action is to slowly introduce iodine as I decrease

prednisone, but I haven't heard of this being done and am in the lurch for

alternatives.

> > >

> > > On the side, the past two months of prednisone were for a back injury, not

adrenals. I'd also recovered from Lyme and CFS enough to return to full-time

work, but this current issue is threatening the progress I've made.

> > >

> > > Thanks,

> > > R

> > >

> >

>

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Share on other sites

I think it might be good idea to check sodium and potassium values from time to

time to monitor licorice dosage. cindi

Re: Re: Corticosteroid tapering

Thanks Marti for taking the time to give these explanations. Started w/

sublingual salt today & that helped me through a few periods. Will try a pinch

of licorice root in the morning and see if I can level the prednisone doses as

I'm still having to spike them occasionally. If I can regulate the prednisone

dose for a few days than I'll start slow with the iodine & plan on 6-8 weeks to

taper off the prednisone.

The steroids caused quite a stir with viruses, parasites and Lyme as they all

started replicating in the first two weeks of prednisone. 3 weeks ago I took a

somewhat caustic approach that only caused a week of herxing & no symptoms

since. I followed with aggressive detoxing, that no doubt accelerated the

adrenal and thyroid crashes. But despite some discomfort, zits and a beet red

face, I'm doing well and have kept an almost regular level of activity, save for

that spat of a crash this week.

A little over a year ago, before I joined these groups and started learning

from all of you, I was being repeatedly carted to the ER as a snotty vomiting

mess to be wrongly diagnosed w/ sinusitis over these same issues. They'd pump

me with every pain killer and nausea med they had which made no difference. It

was always the steroids that finally worked and they thought because of

inflammation, never endocronological. Cheers to our American Health Care, eh?

Thanks to you Marti and many others for helping to bring me along this far.

Best Wishes to All,

R

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi

I wanted to go one year but I had to get off in order to have some baseline

testing done. I finally found a good endocrinologist and thought it worth

dealing with her.

She is not American trained, she was trained in a Latin American country. I

think any doctors not trained in the US, are open to endocrine issues. Just my

opinion.

Anyway, for the nine months, I was up to 40mg of cortisol on bad/busy days and

30 mg on regular days. It didn't take long to taper down, I probably should have

taken longer though as I did have some issues.

I have been off since October 7th and can do without cortisol completely as

long as I don't overdo it. I have housebound, chairbound and I can do light

activity (cook 1 meal, take shower) per day. So if I go to get groceries or have

a lengthy phone conversation or do too much mental work, I do not have enough

cortisol

to make it till bedtime (palpitations, alertness - all the things adrenaline

does).

So now I am dosing with cortisol 2.5 mg as needed on those hard days. One day,

I had to use 5mg. Usually, it is around bedtime. But I can do a whole lot better

in the lifestyle changes - specifically, going to bed earlier.

I have found that I require more T3 once I stopped the cortisol so I am not

using it efficiently. Trying to stablize that before deciding the next step. I

would like to have a saliva cortisol run again before restarting cortisol or

determining my next step. I have not yet had the official diagnosis of Primary

or Secondary cortisol - need to have two more cortisol tests done.

But, honestly, I would not have a problem staying on cortisol. If I was

required to remain on cortisol for the rest of my life, I would be okay with

that. I know others disagree but I am ready to start living - whatever it takes.

We each have to make our own decisions that are right for our bodies and

circumstances.

Marti

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In , " csharpham " <csharpham@...> wrote:

>

Marti. I didn't know u had come off HC! Thats awesome. I would love nothing

more than to do this but not sure if i'll ever be able to. How long were you on

it before you weaned, and how long did it take?

>

> I've been a little better lately than i used to be when the adrenals first

crashed. Been able to cook pretty much every day and been able to do more around

the house. Still barely going out though at all, and still only functional at

night.

>

> This arv for example, i had a sleep then got the GF to drive me around the

block to put some items in the post box. I felt a little low before I left and

didnt take any extra HC. Was okish but still low. Got home, and within about 20

mins felt myself start to crash and had to quickly dose another 5mg HC. Palps,

anxiety etc, all the very low cort crashy symptoms. I dont have these crashes

very often any more, which is great. But it reminds me how dependant I am just

doing something as small as that can send me crashing.

>

> Hence the feeling that I may never get off HC. I find it a miracle if I hear

of people that can get off it.

~Chris.

----------------------

31, Male

5'9, 65kg (143lb)

Secondary AI, CFS/MCS/FM

35-37mg HC, 50mg Testogel

3g Licorice root,

Vit C, Mag, D3 & other supps.

Melbourne, Australia.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In , " marti_zavala " <marti_zavala@> wrote:

Hi ,

> > Having just recently done this with hydrocortisone, maybe I can help a

little.

> >

> > There are various ways to boost the adrenals or support them.

> >

> > The idodine will be most helpful to the thyroid but not sure how helpful

for the adrenal system. Here is what I am currently using:

> >

> > For adrenals:

> >

> > Licorice root upon waking.

> > Unprocessed sea salt upon waking and throughout day. I put 1/4 tsp under

my tongue and follow with 6 oz of water.

> > Rhodiola rosea and ashwangada after breakfast and again at lunch.

> >

> > No caffeine, no phosyphytidyline serine, no stimulants. (can't give up

chocolate but wish I could. No MSG or other things that I am either allergic to

or sensitive to. Limit my exposure to propane and chemicals as they get my heart

rate up.

> >

> > Lifestyle changes: No stress, living within my financial budget so I don't

have money stress, living within my energy budget so that I don't crash. Staying

away from friends/family that are high-maintenance. Working on early to bed (by

10pm) and not rising till 9am (not going well since my circadian rhythym is so

far off).

> >

> > Will supplement with 2.5 mg of hydrocortisone if I have overdone it during

the day so that I don't have the adrenaline dump into my system further

stressing the adrenals.

> >

> > For Thyroid:

> > Tyrosine 500mg twice a day.

> > Thyroid T3 (cannot tolerate Armour at this time)

> > Iodine if needed

> > Iron if ferritin is below 50

That's all I can think of off the top of my head- hope some of this is

helpful.

Marti

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In , " not4idiopathic " <jprutty@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Trying to slowly rid myself of prednisone, but my snails pace still

brought down the adrenals and thyroid requiring me to spike the prednisone dose

again.

> > >

> > > Now starting over with tapering off, I'm curious if any have found

alternative or supportive methods to taper or quit corticosteroids without

crashing.

> > >

> > > My only plan of action is to slowly introduce iodine as I decrease

prednisone, but I haven't heard of this being done and am in the lurch for

alternatives.

> > >

> > > On the side, the past two months of prednisone were for a back injury,

not adrenals. I'd also recovered from Lyme and CFS enough to return to full-time

work, but this current issue is threatening the progress I've made.

Thanks,

R

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Share on other sites

Thanks ,

Do you know how rapidly hyperkalemia can occur when increasing cortisol? I know

it's relevant to how much cortisol is introduced, just curious if you or others

have experience with severe sudden issues.

Thanks,

R

From: cindi

Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 5:00 AM

Subject: Re: Re: Corticosteroid tapering

I think it might be good idea to check sodium and potassium values from time to

time to monitor licorice dosage. cindi

Re: Re: Corticosteroid tapering

Thanks Marti for taking the time to give these explanations. Started w/

sublingual salt today & that helped me through a few periods. Will try a pinch

of licorice root in the morning and see if I can level the prednisone doses as

I'm still having to spike them occasionally. If I can regulate the prednisone

dose for a few days than I'll start slow with the iodine & plan on 6-8 weeks to

taper off the prednisone.

The steroids caused quite a stir with viruses, parasites and Lyme as they all

started replicating in the first two weeks of prednisone. 3 weeks ago I took a

somewhat caustic approach that only caused a week of herxing & no symptoms

since. I followed with aggressive detoxing, that no doubt accelerated the

adrenal and thyroid crashes. But despite some discomfort, zits and a beet red

face, I'm doing well and have kept an almost regular level of activity, save for

that spat of a crash this week.

A little over a year ago, before I joined these groups and started learning from

all of you, I was being repeatedly carted to the ER as a snotty vomiting mess to

be wrongly diagnosed w/ sinusitis over these same issues. They'd pump me with

every pain killer and nausea med they had which made no difference. It was

always the steroids that finally worked and they thought because of

inflammation, never endocronological. Cheers to our American Health Care, eh?

Thanks to you Marti and many others for helping to bring me along this far.

Best Wishes to All,

R

----------------------------------------------------------

Hi

I wanted to go one year but I had to get off in order to have some baseline

testing done. I finally found a good endocrinologist and thought it worth

dealing with her.

She is not American trained, she was trained in a Latin American country. I

think any doctors not trained in the US, are open to endocrine issues. Just my

opinion.

Anyway, for the nine months, I was up to 40mg of cortisol on bad/busy days and

30 mg on regular days. It didn't take long to taper down, I probably should have

taken longer though as I did have some issues.

I have been off since October 7th and can do without cortisol completely as long

as I don't overdo it. I have housebound, chairbound and I can do light activity

(cook 1 meal, take shower) per day. So if I go to get groceries or have a

lengthy phone conversation or do too much mental work, I do not have enough

cortisol

to make it till bedtime (palpitations, alertness - all the things adrenaline

does).

So now I am dosing with cortisol 2.5 mg as needed on those hard days. One day, I

had to use 5mg. Usually, it is around bedtime. But I can do a whole lot better

in the lifestyle changes - specifically, going to bed earlier.

I have found that I require more T3 once I stopped the cortisol so I am not

using it efficiently. Trying to stablize that before deciding the next step. I

would like to have a saliva cortisol run again before restarting cortisol or

determining my next step. I have not yet had the official diagnosis of Primary

or Secondary cortisol - need to have two more cortisol tests done.

But, honestly, I would not have a problem staying on cortisol. If I was required

to remain on cortisol for the rest of my life, I would be okay with that. I know

others disagree but I am ready to start living - whatever it takes. We each have

to make our own decisions that are right for our bodies and circumstances.

Marti

----------------------------------------------------------

In , " csharpham " <csharpham@...> wrote:

>

Marti. I didn't know u had come off HC! Thats awesome. I would love nothing more

than to do this but not sure if i'll ever be able to. How long were you on it

before you weaned, and how long did it take?

>

> I've been a little better lately than i used to be when the adrenals first

crashed. Been able to cook pretty much every day and been able to do more around

the house. Still barely going out though at all, and still only functional at

night.

>

> This arv for example, i had a sleep then got the GF to drive me around the

block to put some items in the post box. I felt a little low before I left and

didnt take any extra HC. Was okish but still low. Got home, and within about 20

mins felt myself start to crash and had to quickly dose another 5mg HC. Palps,

anxiety etc, all the very low cort crashy symptoms. I dont have these crashes

very often any more, which is great. But it reminds me how dependant I am just

doing something as small as that can send me crashing.

>

> Hence the feeling that I may never get off HC. I find it a miracle if I hear

of people that can get off it.

~Chris.

----------------------

31, Male

5'9, 65kg (143lb)

Secondary AI, CFS/MCS/FM

35-37mg HC, 50mg Testogel

3g Licorice root,

Vit C, Mag, D3 & other supps.

Melbourne, Australia.

----------------------------------------------------------

In , " marti_zavala " <marti_zavala@> wrote:

Hi ,

> > Having just recently done this with hydrocortisone, maybe I can help a

little.

> >

> > There are various ways to boost the adrenals or support them.

> >

> > The idodine will be most helpful to the thyroid but not sure how helpful for

the adrenal system. Here is what I am currently using:

> >

> > For adrenals:

> >

> > Licorice root upon waking.

> > Unprocessed sea salt upon waking and throughout day. I put 1/4 tsp under my

tongue and follow with 6 oz of water.

> > Rhodiola rosea and ashwangada after breakfast and again at lunch.

> >

> > No caffeine, no phosyphytidyline serine, no stimulants. (can't give up

chocolate but wish I could. No MSG or other things that I am either allergic to

or sensitive to. Limit my exposure to propane and chemicals as they get my heart

rate up.

> >

> > Lifestyle changes: No stress, living within my financial budget so I don't

have money stress, living within my energy budget so that I don't crash. Staying

away from friends/family that are high-maintenance. Working on early to bed (by

10pm) and not rising till 9am (not going well since my circadian rhythym is so

far off).

> >

> > Will supplement with 2.5 mg of hydrocortisone if I have overdone it during

the day so that I don't have the adrenaline dump into my system further

stressing the adrenals.

> >

> > For Thyroid:

> > Tyrosine 500mg twice a day.

> > Thyroid T3 (cannot tolerate Armour at this time)

> > Iodine if needed

> > Iron if ferritin is below 50

That's all I can think of off the top of my head- hope some of this is helpful.

Marti

----------------------------------------------------------

In , " not4idiopathic " <jprutty@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Trying to slowly rid myself of prednisone, but my snails pace still

brought down the adrenals and thyroid requiring me to spike the prednisone dose

again.

> > >

> > > Now starting over with tapering off, I'm curious if any have found

alternative or supportive methods to taper or quit corticosteroids without

crashing.

> > >

> > > My only plan of action is to slowly introduce iodine as I decrease

prednisone, but I haven't heard of this being done and am in the lurch for

alternatives.

> > >

> > > On the side, the past two months of prednisone were for a back injury, not

adrenals. I'd also recovered from Lyme and CFS enough to return to full-time

work, but this current issue is threatening the progress I've made.

Thanks,

R

----------------------------------------------------------

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,

Friday, January 8, 2010, 5:43:22 PM, you wrote:

> Now starting over with tapering off, I'm curious if any have found

> alternative or supportive methods to taper or quit corticosteroids without

crashing.

When I have tapered hydrocortisone on several occasions, I have

replaced a small amount of the hydrocortisone with pregnenolone and

then tapered the pregnenolone. I repeat this process until I reach the

desired level of hydrocortisone. I found that tapering the

hydrocortisone in this manner produced fewer and less severe

corticosteroid withdrawal symptoms.

--

Best regards,

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Hi

Do you mean adrenal suppresion due to high cortisol supplementation?Hyperkalemia

is related to low aldosterone. My aldosterone is low but my potassium was never

out of limits. So it is my impression that it is not so easy for potassium to go

out of the limits.I suggested you to have your potassium and sodium to be

checked while you are on licorice as excess licorice may cause low potassium and

high sodium.

best wishes

cindi

Re: Re: Corticosteroid tapering

Thanks Marti for taking the time to give these explanations. Started w/

sublingual salt today & that helped me through a few periods. Will try a pinch

of licorice root in the morning and see if I can level the prednisone doses as

I'm still having to spike them occasionally. If I can regulate the prednisone

dose for a few days than I'll start slow with the iodine & plan on 6-8 weeks to

taper off the prednisone.

The steroids caused quite a stir with viruses, parasites and Lyme as they all

started replicating in the first two weeks of prednisone. 3 weeks ago I took a

somewhat caustic approach that only caused a week of herxing & no symptoms

since. I followed with aggressive detoxing, that no doubt accelerated the

adrenal and thyroid crashes. But despite some discomfort, zits and a beet red

face, I'm doing well and have kept an almost regular level of activity, save for

that spat of a crash this week.

A little over a year ago, before I joined these groups and started learning

from all of you, I was being repeatedly carted to the ER as a snotty vomiting

mess to be wrongly diagnosed w/ sinusitis over these same issues. They'd pump me

with every pain killer and nausea med they had which made no difference. It was

always the steroids that finally worked and they thought because of

inflammation, never endocronological. Cheers to our American Health Care, eh?

Thanks to you Marti and many others for helping to bring me along this far.

Best Wishes to All,

R

----------------------------------------------------------

Hi

I wanted to go one year but I had to get off in order to have some baseline

testing done. I finally found a good endocrinologist and thought it worth

dealing with her.

She is not American trained, she was trained in a Latin American country. I

think any doctors not trained in the US, are open to endocrine issues. Just my

opinion.

Anyway, for the nine months, I was up to 40mg of cortisol on bad/busy days and

30 mg on regular days. It didn't take long to taper down, I probably should have

taken longer though as I did have some issues.

I have been off since October 7th and can do without cortisol completely as

long as I don't overdo it. I have housebound, chairbound and I can do light

activity (cook 1 meal, take shower) per day. So if I go to get groceries or have

a lengthy phone conversation or do too much mental work, I do not have enough

cortisol

to make it till bedtime (palpitations, alertness - all the things adrenaline

does).

So now I am dosing with cortisol 2.5 mg as needed on those hard days. One day,

I had to use 5mg. Usually, it is around bedtime. But I can do a whole lot better

in the lifestyle changes - specifically, going to bed earlier.

I have found that I require more T3 once I stopped the cortisol so I am not

using it efficiently. Trying to stablize that before deciding the next step. I

would like to have a saliva cortisol run again before restarting cortisol or

determining my next step. I have not yet had the official diagnosis of Primary

or Secondary cortisol - need to have two more cortisol tests done.

But, honestly, I would not have a problem staying on cortisol. If I was

required to remain on cortisol for the rest of my life, I would be okay with

that. I know others disagree but I am ready to start living - whatever it takes.

We each have to make our own decisions that are right for our bodies and

circumstances.

Marti

----------------------------------------------------------

In , " csharpham " <csharpham@...> wrote:

>

Marti. I didn't know u had come off HC! Thats awesome. I would love nothing

more than to do this but not sure if i'll ever be able to. How long were you on

it before you weaned, and how long did it take?

>

> I've been a little better lately than i used to be when the adrenals first

crashed. Been able to cook pretty much every day and been able to do more around

the house. Still barely going out though at all, and still only functional at

night.

>

> This arv for example, i had a sleep then got the GF to drive me around the

block to put some items in the post box. I felt a little low before I left and

didnt take any extra HC. Was okish but still low. Got home, and within about 20

mins felt myself start to crash and had to quickly dose another 5mg HC. Palps,

anxiety etc, all the very low cort crashy symptoms. I dont have these crashes

very often any more, which is great. But it reminds me how dependant I am just

doing something as small as that can send me crashing.

>

> Hence the feeling that I may never get off HC. I find it a miracle if I hear

of people that can get off it.

~Chris.

----------------------

31, Male

5'9, 65kg (143lb)

Secondary AI, CFS/MCS/FM

35-37mg HC, 50mg Testogel

3g Licorice root,

Vit C, Mag, D3 & other supps.

Melbourne, Australia.

----------------------------------------------------------

In , " marti_zavala " <marti_zavala@> wrote:

Hi ,

> > Having just recently done this with hydrocortisone, maybe I can help a

little.

> >

> > There are various ways to boost the adrenals or support them.

> >

> > The idodine will be most helpful to the thyroid but not sure how helpful

for the adrenal system. Here is what I am currently using:

> >

> > For adrenals:

> >

> > Licorice root upon waking.

> > Unprocessed sea salt upon waking and throughout day. I put 1/4 tsp under

my tongue and follow with 6 oz of water.

> > Rhodiola rosea and ashwangada after breakfast and again at lunch.

> >

> > No caffeine, no phosyphytidyline serine, no stimulants. (can't give up

chocolate but wish I could. No MSG or other things that I am either allergic to

or sensitive to. Limit my exposure to propane and chemicals as they get my heart

rate up.

> >

> > Lifestyle changes: No stress, living within my financial budget so I don't

have money stress, living within my energy budget so that I don't crash. Staying

away from friends/family that are high-maintenance. Working on early to bed (by

10pm) and not rising till 9am (not going well since my circadian rhythym is so

far off).

> >

> > Will supplement with 2.5 mg of hydrocortisone if I have overdone it during

the day so that I don't have the adrenaline dump into my system further

stressing the adrenals.

> >

> > For Thyroid:

> > Tyrosine 500mg twice a day.

> > Thyroid T3 (cannot tolerate Armour at this time)

> > Iodine if needed

> > Iron if ferritin is below 50

That's all I can think of off the top of my head- hope some of this is

helpful.

Marti

----------------------------------------------------------

In , " not4idiopathic " <jprutty@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Trying to slowly rid myself of prednisone, but my snails pace still

brought down the adrenals and thyroid requiring me to spike the prednisone dose

again.

> > >

> > > Now starting over with tapering off, I'm curious if any have found

alternative or supportive methods to taper or quit corticosteroids without

crashing.

> > >

> > > My only plan of action is to slowly introduce iodine as I decrease

prednisone, but I haven't heard of this being done and am in the lurch for

alternatives.

> > >

> > > On the side, the past two months of prednisone were for a back injury,

not adrenals. I'd also recovered from Lyme and CFS enough to return to full-time

work, but this current issue is threatening the progress I've made.

Thanks,

R

----------------------------------------------------------

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Hi Cindi,

Yes, I agree. I have my potassium & sodium checked pretty regularly through

primary care doctor - it's part of Basic & Complete Metabolic panel (at least in

the US), along with chloride.

I tend to forget to add this but I am on potassium (I lump that in with POTS but

that is part of the endocrine system as well).

But I am not on an excessive amount of Licorice as I am also on Florinef (same

problem though-loss of potassium).

I used to test low on potassium long before I did anything about my endorcrine

system. I tend to run low normal now. (Just an FYI, you shouldn't take more

than 99mg at one time - can irritate the stomach lining - that is why you don't

find capsules higher than 99mg) so I space mine out by taking it twice a day).

Marti

> > > >

> > > > Trying to slowly rid myself of prednisone, but my snails pace still

brought down the adrenals and thyroid requiring me to spike the prednisone dose

again.

> > > >

> > > > Now starting over with tapering off, I'm curious if any have found

alternative or supportive methods to taper or quit corticosteroids without

crashing.

> > > >

> > > > My only plan of action is to slowly introduce iodine as I decrease

prednisone, but I haven't heard of this being done and am in the lurch for

alternatives.

> > > >

> > > > On the side, the past two months of prednisone were for a back injury,

not adrenals. I'd also recovered from Lyme and CFS enough to return to full-time

work, but this current issue is threatening the progress I've made.

>

> Thanks,

> R

>

>

>

>

>

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

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Hi Cindi, , Marti

Cindi, before my last reply I was following the bread crumbs from what you

originally said about the sodium and potassium and found this, Wikipedia:

" Cortisol moves potassium out of cells in exchange for an equal number of sodium

ions as mentioned above.[33] This can cause a major problem with the

hyperkalemia of metabolic shock from surgery. " Now thinking again, It would

likely take a rather large amount of cortisol to cause that, so please forgive

the silly question and prior misspelling of your name.

I actually don't get any labs done now unless something very bad happens. I

dropped my insurance in September and am still fighting to keep the lights on.

I went to the ER in November because of my back & was on very basic maintenance

supplementation then, with all labs showing normal (mid range). This prednisone

certainly wasn't planned for, so these treatments are very temporary until I get

back to exercising regularly. That's always been the last step for me in

recovery that brings everything else together. But who knows, I thought I'd be

well past this issue already...just managed my meds poorly I suppose.

, thanks for the tip about pregnenolone. I'll look into that more should I

continue having problems tapering. Best part about that is, I won't need a

script.

Marti, I'll certainly heed your advice on the licorice max dose. I didn't pay

such good attention to your warnings about glutathione injection amounts per

week and paid for it. The lesson of history!

Warm Regards,

R

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

> > > >

> > > > Trying to slowly rid myself of prednisone, but my snails pace still

brought down the adrenals and thyroid requiring me to spike the prednisone dose

again.

> > > >

> > > > Now starting over with tapering off, I'm curious if any have found

alternative or supportive methods to taper or quit corticosteroids without

crashing.

> > > >

> > > > My only plan of action is to slowly introduce iodine as I decrease

prednisone, but I haven't heard of this being done and am in the lurch for

alternatives.

> > > >

> > > > On the side, the past two months of prednisone were for a back injury,

not adrenals. I'd also recovered from Lyme and CFS enough to return to full-time

work, but this current issue is threatening the progress I've made.

>

> Thanks,

> R

> ----------------------------------------------------------

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I am sorry that you had to learn the hard way on glutathione. That can take a

while to bounce back from. I actually would have done the exact same thing as I

used to be a " more must be better " person.

But Dr. Salvato (under whom I was getting the injections) was so firm with a

stare that would melt steel, holding the syringes near her face. If any of you

know her, she is a formidable woman! That scared me so I always obeyed!! If

she hadn't been so firm, I would certainly have done the same thing.

(Since I lived so far away, she agreed to let me inject myself and she was

concerned that I would overdo it - she would certainly have been right....

Marti

> Marti, I'll certainly heed your advice on the licorice max dose. I didn't pay

such good attention to your warnings about glutathione injection amounts per

week and paid for it. The lesson of history!

>

> Warm Regards,

> R

>

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> (Just an FYI, you shouldn't take more than 99mg at one time - can

> irritate the stomach lining - that is why you don't find capsules

> higher than 99mg) so I space mine out by taking it twice a day).

That's true for standard pills. If they get lodged somewhere, the local

concentration of potassium can get high enough to kill cells if the pill's dose

is too large. Time release pills are allowed to contain a lot more than 99 mg,

but they can be dangerous too in people taking medicines like anticholinergics

that slow intestinal peristalsis.

Potassium powder mixed in a big glass of water is safer, since there's no way of

getting a locally high concentration. I take 3 x 1 gram per day potassium

citrate (total 1085 mg elemental potassium) to bring my intake up to the RDA and

also get some alkalinity.

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