Guest guest Posted January 9, 2010 Report Share Posted January 9, 2010 Trying to slowly rid myself of prednisone, but my snails pace still brought down the adrenals and thyroid requiring me to spike the prednisone dose again. Now starting over with tapering off, I'm curious if any have found alternative or supportive methods to taper or quit corticosteroids without crashing. My only plan of action is to slowly introduce iodine as I decrease prednisone, but I haven't heard of this being done and am in the lurch for alternatives. On the side, the past two months of prednisone were for a back injury, not adrenals. I'd also recovered from Lyme and CFS enough to return to full-time work, but this current issue is threatening the progress I've made. Thanks, R Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2010 Report Share Posted January 9, 2010 Hi , Having just recently done this with hydrocortisone, maybe I can help a little. There are various ways to boost the adrenals or support them. The idodine will be most helpful to the thyroid but not sure how helpful for the adrenal system. Here is what I am currently using: For adrenals: Licorice root upon waking. Unprocessed sea salt upon waking and throughout day. I put 1/4 tsp under my tongue and follow with 6 oz of water. Rhodiola rosea and ashwangada after breakfast and again at lunch. No caffeine, no phosyphytidyline serine, no stimulants. (can't give up chocolate but wish I could. No MSG or other things that I am either allergic to or sensitive to. Limit my exposure to propane and chemicals as they get my heart rate up. Lifestyle changes: No stress, living within my financial budget so I don't have money stress, living within my energy budget so that I don't crash. Staying away from friends/family that are high-maintenance. Working on early to bed (by 10pm) and not rising till 9am (not going well since my circadian rhythym is so far off). Will supplement with 2.5 mg of hydrocortisone if I have overdone it during the day so that I don't have the adrenaline dump into my system further stressing the adrenals. For Thyroid: Tyrosine 500mg twice a day. Thyroid T3 (cannot tolerate Armour at this time) Iodine if needed Iron if ferritin is below 50 That's all I can think of off the top of my head- hope some of this is helpful. Marti > > Trying to slowly rid myself of prednisone, but my snails pace still brought down the adrenals and thyroid requiring me to spike the prednisone dose again. > > Now starting over with tapering off, I'm curious if any have found alternative or supportive methods to taper or quit corticosteroids without crashing. > > My only plan of action is to slowly introduce iodine as I decrease prednisone, but I haven't heard of this being done and am in the lurch for alternatives. > > On the side, the past two months of prednisone were for a back injury, not adrenals. I'd also recovered from Lyme and CFS enough to return to full-time work, but this current issue is threatening the progress I've made. > > Thanks, > R > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2010 Report Share Posted January 9, 2010 Marti. I didn't know u had come off HC! Thats awesome. I would love nothing more than to do this but not sure if i'll ever be able to. How long were you on it before you weaned, and how long did it take? I've been a little better lately than i used to be when the adrenals first crashed. Been able to cook pretty much every day and been able to do more around the house. Still barely going out though at all, and still only functional at night. This arv for example, i had a sleep then got the GF to drive me around the block to put some items in the post box. I felt a little low before I left and didnt take any extra HC. Was okish but still low. Got home, and within about 20 mins felt myself start to crash and had to quickly dose another 5mg HC. Palps, anxiety etc, all the very low cort crashy symptoms. I dont have these crashes very often any more, which is great. But it reminds me how dependant I am just doing something as small as that can send me crashing. Hence the feeling that I may never get off HC. I find it a miracle if I hear of people that can get off it. ~Chris. ---------------------- 31, Male 5'9, 65kg (143lb) Secondary AI, CFS/MCS/FM 35-37mg HC, 50mg Testogel 3g Licorice root, Vit C, Mag, D3 & other supps. Melbourne, Australia. ---------------------- > > > > Trying to slowly rid myself of prednisone, but my snails pace still brought down the adrenals and thyroid requiring me to spike the prednisone dose again. > > > > Now starting over with tapering off, I'm curious if any have found alternative or supportive methods to taper or quit corticosteroids without crashing. > > > > My only plan of action is to slowly introduce iodine as I decrease prednisone, but I haven't heard of this being done and am in the lurch for alternatives. > > > > On the side, the past two months of prednisone were for a back injury, not adrenals. I'd also recovered from Lyme and CFS enough to return to full-time work, but this current issue is threatening the progress I've made. > > > > Thanks, > > R > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2010 Report Share Posted January 9, 2010 Thanks Marti for taking the time to give these explanations. Started w/ sublingual salt today & that helped me through a few periods. Will try a pinch of licorice root in the morning and see if I can level the prednisone doses as I'm still having to spike them occasionally. If I can regulate the prednisone dose for a few days than I'll start slow with the iodine & plan on 6-8 weeks to taper off the prednisone. The steroids caused quite a stir with viruses, parasites and Lyme as they all started replicating in the first two weeks of prednisone. 3 weeks ago I took a somewhat caustic approach that only caused a week of herxing & no symptoms since. I followed with aggressive detoxing, that no doubt accelerated the adrenal and thyroid crashes. But despite some discomfort, zits and a beet red face, I'm doing well and have kept an almost regular level of activity, save for that spat of a crash this week. A little over a year ago, before I joined these groups and started learning from all of you, I was being repeatedly carted to the ER as a snotty vomiting mess to be wrongly diagnosed w/ sinusitis over these same issues. They'd pump me with every pain killer and nausea med they had which made no difference. It was always the steroids that finally worked and they thought because of inflammation, never endocronological. Cheers to our American Health Care, eh? Thanks to you Marti and many others for helping to bring me along this far. Best Wishes to All, R -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hi I wanted to go one year but I had to get off in order to have some baseline testing done. I finally found a good endocrinologist and thought it worth dealing with her. She is not American trained, she was trained in a Latin American country. I think any doctors not trained in the US, are open to endocrine issues. Just my opinion. Anyway, for the nine months, I was up to 40mg of cortisol on bad/busy days and 30 mg on regular days. It didn't take long to taper down, I probably should have taken longer though as I did have some issues. I have been off since October 7th and can do without cortisol completely as long as I don't overdo it. I have housebound, chairbound and I can do light activity (cook 1 meal, take shower) per day. So if I go to get groceries or have a lengthy phone conversation or do too much mental work, I do not have enough cortisol to make it till bedtime (palpitations, alertness - all the things adrenaline does). So now I am dosing with cortisol 2.5 mg as needed on those hard days. One day, I had to use 5mg. Usually, it is around bedtime. But I can do a whole lot better in the lifestyle changes - specifically, going to bed earlier. I have found that I require more T3 once I stopped the cortisol so I am not using it efficiently. Trying to stablize that before deciding the next step. I would like to have a saliva cortisol run again before restarting cortisol or determining my next step. I have not yet had the official diagnosis of Primary or Secondary cortisol - need to have two more cortisol tests done. But, honestly, I would not have a problem staying on cortisol. If I was required to remain on cortisol for the rest of my life, I would be okay with that. I know others disagree but I am ready to start living - whatever it takes. We each have to make our own decisions that are right for our bodies and circumstances. Marti -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In , " csharpham " <csharpham@...> wrote: > Marti. I didn't know u had come off HC! Thats awesome. I would love nothing more than to do this but not sure if i'll ever be able to. How long were you on it before you weaned, and how long did it take? > > I've been a little better lately than i used to be when the adrenals first crashed. Been able to cook pretty much every day and been able to do more around the house. Still barely going out though at all, and still only functional at night. > > This arv for example, i had a sleep then got the GF to drive me around the block to put some items in the post box. I felt a little low before I left and didnt take any extra HC. Was okish but still low. Got home, and within about 20 mins felt myself start to crash and had to quickly dose another 5mg HC. Palps, anxiety etc, all the very low cort crashy symptoms. I dont have these crashes very often any more, which is great. But it reminds me how dependant I am just doing something as small as that can send me crashing. > > Hence the feeling that I may never get off HC. I find it a miracle if I hear of people that can get off it. ~Chris. ---------------------- 31, Male 5'9, 65kg (143lb) Secondary AI, CFS/MCS/FM 35-37mg HC, 50mg Testogel 3g Licorice root, Vit C, Mag, D3 & other supps. Melbourne, Australia. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In , " marti_zavala " <marti_zavala@> wrote: Hi , > > Having just recently done this with hydrocortisone, maybe I can help a little. > > > > There are various ways to boost the adrenals or support them. > > > > The idodine will be most helpful to the thyroid but not sure how helpful for the adrenal system. Here is what I am currently using: > > > > For adrenals: > > > > Licorice root upon waking. > > Unprocessed sea salt upon waking and throughout day. I put 1/4 tsp under my tongue and follow with 6 oz of water. > > Rhodiola rosea and ashwangada after breakfast and again at lunch. > > > > No caffeine, no phosyphytidyline serine, no stimulants. (can't give up chocolate but wish I could. No MSG or other things that I am either allergic to or sensitive to. Limit my exposure to propane and chemicals as they get my heart rate up. > > > > Lifestyle changes: No stress, living within my financial budget so I don't have money stress, living within my energy budget so that I don't crash. Staying away from friends/family that are high-maintenance. Working on early to bed (by 10pm) and not rising till 9am (not going well since my circadian rhythym is so far off). > > > > Will supplement with 2.5 mg of hydrocortisone if I have overdone it during the day so that I don't have the adrenaline dump into my system further stressing the adrenals. > > > > For Thyroid: > > Tyrosine 500mg twice a day. > > Thyroid T3 (cannot tolerate Armour at this time) > > Iodine if needed > > Iron if ferritin is below 50 That's all I can think of off the top of my head- hope some of this is helpful. Marti -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In , " not4idiopathic " <jprutty@> wrote: > > > > > > Trying to slowly rid myself of prednisone, but my snails pace still brought down the adrenals and thyroid requiring me to spike the prednisone dose again. > > > > > > Now starting over with tapering off, I'm curious if any have found alternative or supportive methods to taper or quit corticosteroids without crashing. > > > > > > My only plan of action is to slowly introduce iodine as I decrease prednisone, but I haven't heard of this being done and am in the lurch for alternatives. > > > > > > On the side, the past two months of prednisone were for a back injury, not adrenals. I'd also recovered from Lyme and CFS enough to return to full-time work, but this current issue is threatening the progress I've made. Thanks, R -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2010 Report Share Posted January 9, 2010 Hi I wanted to go one year but I had to get off in order to have some baseline testing done. I finally found a good endocrinologist and thought it worth dealing with her. She is not American trained, she was trained in a Latin American country. I think any doctors not trained in the US, are open to endocrine issues. Just my opinion. Anyway, for the nine months, I was up to 40mg of cortisol on bad/busy days and 30 mg on regular days. It didn't take long to taper down, I probably should have taken longer though as I did have some issues. I have been off since October 7th and can do without cortisol completely as long as I don't overdo it. I have housebound, chairbound and I can do light activity (cook 1 meal, take shower) per day. So if I go to get groceries or have a lengthy phone conversation or do too much mental work, I do not have enough cortisol to make it till bedtime (palpitations, alertness - all the things adrenaline does). So now I am dosing with cortisol 2.5 mg as needed on those hard days. One day, I had to use 5mg. Usually, it is around bedtime. But I can do a whole lot better in the lifestyle changes - specifically, going to bed earlier. I have found that I require more T3 once I stopped the cortisol so I am not using it efficiently. Trying to stablize that before deciding the next step. I would like to have a saliva cortisol run again before restarting cortisol or determining my next step. I have not yet had the official diagnosis of Primary or Secondary cortisol - need to have two more cortisol tests done. But, honestly, I would not have a problem staying on cortisol. If I was required to remain on cortisol for the rest of my life, I would be okay with that. I know others disagree but I am ready to start living - whatever it takes. We each have to make our own decisions that are right for our bodies and circumstances. Marti > > > > > > Trying to slowly rid myself of prednisone, but my snails pace still brought down the adrenals and thyroid requiring me to spike the prednisone dose again. > > > > > > Now starting over with tapering off, I'm curious if any have found alternative or supportive methods to taper or quit corticosteroids without crashing. > > > > > > My only plan of action is to slowly introduce iodine as I decrease prednisone, but I haven't heard of this being done and am in the lurch for alternatives. > > > > > > On the side, the past two months of prednisone were for a back injury, not adrenals. I'd also recovered from Lyme and CFS enough to return to full-time work, but this current issue is threatening the progress I've made. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > R > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2010 Report Share Posted January 10, 2010 I think it might be good idea to check sodium and potassium values from time to time to monitor licorice dosage. cindi Re: Re: Corticosteroid tapering Thanks Marti for taking the time to give these explanations. Started w/ sublingual salt today & that helped me through a few periods. Will try a pinch of licorice root in the morning and see if I can level the prednisone doses as I'm still having to spike them occasionally. If I can regulate the prednisone dose for a few days than I'll start slow with the iodine & plan on 6-8 weeks to taper off the prednisone. The steroids caused quite a stir with viruses, parasites and Lyme as they all started replicating in the first two weeks of prednisone. 3 weeks ago I took a somewhat caustic approach that only caused a week of herxing & no symptoms since. I followed with aggressive detoxing, that no doubt accelerated the adrenal and thyroid crashes. But despite some discomfort, zits and a beet red face, I'm doing well and have kept an almost regular level of activity, save for that spat of a crash this week. A little over a year ago, before I joined these groups and started learning from all of you, I was being repeatedly carted to the ER as a snotty vomiting mess to be wrongly diagnosed w/ sinusitis over these same issues. They'd pump me with every pain killer and nausea med they had which made no difference. It was always the steroids that finally worked and they thought because of inflammation, never endocronological. Cheers to our American Health Care, eh? Thanks to you Marti and many others for helping to bring me along this far. Best Wishes to All, R -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hi I wanted to go one year but I had to get off in order to have some baseline testing done. I finally found a good endocrinologist and thought it worth dealing with her. She is not American trained, she was trained in a Latin American country. I think any doctors not trained in the US, are open to endocrine issues. Just my opinion. Anyway, for the nine months, I was up to 40mg of cortisol on bad/busy days and 30 mg on regular days. It didn't take long to taper down, I probably should have taken longer though as I did have some issues. I have been off since October 7th and can do without cortisol completely as long as I don't overdo it. I have housebound, chairbound and I can do light activity (cook 1 meal, take shower) per day. So if I go to get groceries or have a lengthy phone conversation or do too much mental work, I do not have enough cortisol to make it till bedtime (palpitations, alertness - all the things adrenaline does). So now I am dosing with cortisol 2.5 mg as needed on those hard days. One day, I had to use 5mg. Usually, it is around bedtime. But I can do a whole lot better in the lifestyle changes - specifically, going to bed earlier. I have found that I require more T3 once I stopped the cortisol so I am not using it efficiently. Trying to stablize that before deciding the next step. I would like to have a saliva cortisol run again before restarting cortisol or determining my next step. I have not yet had the official diagnosis of Primary or Secondary cortisol - need to have two more cortisol tests done. But, honestly, I would not have a problem staying on cortisol. If I was required to remain on cortisol for the rest of my life, I would be okay with that. I know others disagree but I am ready to start living - whatever it takes. We each have to make our own decisions that are right for our bodies and circumstances. Marti -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In , " csharpham " <csharpham@...> wrote: > Marti. I didn't know u had come off HC! Thats awesome. I would love nothing more than to do this but not sure if i'll ever be able to. How long were you on it before you weaned, and how long did it take? > > I've been a little better lately than i used to be when the adrenals first crashed. Been able to cook pretty much every day and been able to do more around the house. Still barely going out though at all, and still only functional at night. > > This arv for example, i had a sleep then got the GF to drive me around the block to put some items in the post box. I felt a little low before I left and didnt take any extra HC. Was okish but still low. Got home, and within about 20 mins felt myself start to crash and had to quickly dose another 5mg HC. Palps, anxiety etc, all the very low cort crashy symptoms. I dont have these crashes very often any more, which is great. But it reminds me how dependant I am just doing something as small as that can send me crashing. > > Hence the feeling that I may never get off HC. I find it a miracle if I hear of people that can get off it. ~Chris. ---------------------- 31, Male 5'9, 65kg (143lb) Secondary AI, CFS/MCS/FM 35-37mg HC, 50mg Testogel 3g Licorice root, Vit C, Mag, D3 & other supps. Melbourne, Australia. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In , " marti_zavala " <marti_zavala@> wrote: Hi , > > Having just recently done this with hydrocortisone, maybe I can help a little. > > > > There are various ways to boost the adrenals or support them. > > > > The idodine will be most helpful to the thyroid but not sure how helpful for the adrenal system. Here is what I am currently using: > > > > For adrenals: > > > > Licorice root upon waking. > > Unprocessed sea salt upon waking and throughout day. I put 1/4 tsp under my tongue and follow with 6 oz of water. > > Rhodiola rosea and ashwangada after breakfast and again at lunch. > > > > No caffeine, no phosyphytidyline serine, no stimulants. (can't give up chocolate but wish I could. No MSG or other things that I am either allergic to or sensitive to. Limit my exposure to propane and chemicals as they get my heart rate up. > > > > Lifestyle changes: No stress, living within my financial budget so I don't have money stress, living within my energy budget so that I don't crash. Staying away from friends/family that are high-maintenance. Working on early to bed (by 10pm) and not rising till 9am (not going well since my circadian rhythym is so far off). > > > > Will supplement with 2.5 mg of hydrocortisone if I have overdone it during the day so that I don't have the adrenaline dump into my system further stressing the adrenals. > > > > For Thyroid: > > Tyrosine 500mg twice a day. > > Thyroid T3 (cannot tolerate Armour at this time) > > Iodine if needed > > Iron if ferritin is below 50 That's all I can think of off the top of my head- hope some of this is helpful. Marti -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In , " not4idiopathic " <jprutty@> wrote: > > > > > > Trying to slowly rid myself of prednisone, but my snails pace still brought down the adrenals and thyroid requiring me to spike the prednisone dose again. > > > > > > Now starting over with tapering off, I'm curious if any have found alternative or supportive methods to taper or quit corticosteroids without crashing. > > > > > > My only plan of action is to slowly introduce iodine as I decrease prednisone, but I haven't heard of this being done and am in the lurch for alternatives. > > > > > > On the side, the past two months of prednisone were for a back injury, not adrenals. I'd also recovered from Lyme and CFS enough to return to full-time work, but this current issue is threatening the progress I've made. Thanks, R -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2010 Report Share Posted January 10, 2010 Thanks , Do you know how rapidly hyperkalemia can occur when increasing cortisol? I know it's relevant to how much cortisol is introduced, just curious if you or others have experience with severe sudden issues. Thanks, R From: cindi Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2010 5:00 AM Subject: Re: Re: Corticosteroid tapering I think it might be good idea to check sodium and potassium values from time to time to monitor licorice dosage. cindi Re: Re: Corticosteroid tapering Thanks Marti for taking the time to give these explanations. Started w/ sublingual salt today & that helped me through a few periods. Will try a pinch of licorice root in the morning and see if I can level the prednisone doses as I'm still having to spike them occasionally. If I can regulate the prednisone dose for a few days than I'll start slow with the iodine & plan on 6-8 weeks to taper off the prednisone. The steroids caused quite a stir with viruses, parasites and Lyme as they all started replicating in the first two weeks of prednisone. 3 weeks ago I took a somewhat caustic approach that only caused a week of herxing & no symptoms since. I followed with aggressive detoxing, that no doubt accelerated the adrenal and thyroid crashes. But despite some discomfort, zits and a beet red face, I'm doing well and have kept an almost regular level of activity, save for that spat of a crash this week. A little over a year ago, before I joined these groups and started learning from all of you, I was being repeatedly carted to the ER as a snotty vomiting mess to be wrongly diagnosed w/ sinusitis over these same issues. They'd pump me with every pain killer and nausea med they had which made no difference. It was always the steroids that finally worked and they thought because of inflammation, never endocronological. Cheers to our American Health Care, eh? Thanks to you Marti and many others for helping to bring me along this far. Best Wishes to All, R ---------------------------------------------------------- Hi I wanted to go one year but I had to get off in order to have some baseline testing done. I finally found a good endocrinologist and thought it worth dealing with her. She is not American trained, she was trained in a Latin American country. I think any doctors not trained in the US, are open to endocrine issues. Just my opinion. Anyway, for the nine months, I was up to 40mg of cortisol on bad/busy days and 30 mg on regular days. It didn't take long to taper down, I probably should have taken longer though as I did have some issues. I have been off since October 7th and can do without cortisol completely as long as I don't overdo it. I have housebound, chairbound and I can do light activity (cook 1 meal, take shower) per day. So if I go to get groceries or have a lengthy phone conversation or do too much mental work, I do not have enough cortisol to make it till bedtime (palpitations, alertness - all the things adrenaline does). So now I am dosing with cortisol 2.5 mg as needed on those hard days. One day, I had to use 5mg. Usually, it is around bedtime. But I can do a whole lot better in the lifestyle changes - specifically, going to bed earlier. I have found that I require more T3 once I stopped the cortisol so I am not using it efficiently. Trying to stablize that before deciding the next step. I would like to have a saliva cortisol run again before restarting cortisol or determining my next step. I have not yet had the official diagnosis of Primary or Secondary cortisol - need to have two more cortisol tests done. But, honestly, I would not have a problem staying on cortisol. If I was required to remain on cortisol for the rest of my life, I would be okay with that. I know others disagree but I am ready to start living - whatever it takes. We each have to make our own decisions that are right for our bodies and circumstances. Marti ---------------------------------------------------------- In , " csharpham " <csharpham@...> wrote: > Marti. I didn't know u had come off HC! Thats awesome. I would love nothing more than to do this but not sure if i'll ever be able to. How long were you on it before you weaned, and how long did it take? > > I've been a little better lately than i used to be when the adrenals first crashed. Been able to cook pretty much every day and been able to do more around the house. Still barely going out though at all, and still only functional at night. > > This arv for example, i had a sleep then got the GF to drive me around the block to put some items in the post box. I felt a little low before I left and didnt take any extra HC. Was okish but still low. Got home, and within about 20 mins felt myself start to crash and had to quickly dose another 5mg HC. Palps, anxiety etc, all the very low cort crashy symptoms. I dont have these crashes very often any more, which is great. But it reminds me how dependant I am just doing something as small as that can send me crashing. > > Hence the feeling that I may never get off HC. I find it a miracle if I hear of people that can get off it. ~Chris. ---------------------- 31, Male 5'9, 65kg (143lb) Secondary AI, CFS/MCS/FM 35-37mg HC, 50mg Testogel 3g Licorice root, Vit C, Mag, D3 & other supps. Melbourne, Australia. ---------------------------------------------------------- In , " marti_zavala " <marti_zavala@> wrote: Hi , > > Having just recently done this with hydrocortisone, maybe I can help a little. > > > > There are various ways to boost the adrenals or support them. > > > > The idodine will be most helpful to the thyroid but not sure how helpful for the adrenal system. Here is what I am currently using: > > > > For adrenals: > > > > Licorice root upon waking. > > Unprocessed sea salt upon waking and throughout day. I put 1/4 tsp under my tongue and follow with 6 oz of water. > > Rhodiola rosea and ashwangada after breakfast and again at lunch. > > > > No caffeine, no phosyphytidyline serine, no stimulants. (can't give up chocolate but wish I could. No MSG or other things that I am either allergic to or sensitive to. Limit my exposure to propane and chemicals as they get my heart rate up. > > > > Lifestyle changes: No stress, living within my financial budget so I don't have money stress, living within my energy budget so that I don't crash. Staying away from friends/family that are high-maintenance. Working on early to bed (by 10pm) and not rising till 9am (not going well since my circadian rhythym is so far off). > > > > Will supplement with 2.5 mg of hydrocortisone if I have overdone it during the day so that I don't have the adrenaline dump into my system further stressing the adrenals. > > > > For Thyroid: > > Tyrosine 500mg twice a day. > > Thyroid T3 (cannot tolerate Armour at this time) > > Iodine if needed > > Iron if ferritin is below 50 That's all I can think of off the top of my head- hope some of this is helpful. Marti ---------------------------------------------------------- In , " not4idiopathic " <jprutty@> wrote: > > > > > > Trying to slowly rid myself of prednisone, but my snails pace still brought down the adrenals and thyroid requiring me to spike the prednisone dose again. > > > > > > Now starting over with tapering off, I'm curious if any have found alternative or supportive methods to taper or quit corticosteroids without crashing. > > > > > > My only plan of action is to slowly introduce iodine as I decrease prednisone, but I haven't heard of this being done and am in the lurch for alternatives. > > > > > > On the side, the past two months of prednisone were for a back injury, not adrenals. I'd also recovered from Lyme and CFS enough to return to full-time work, but this current issue is threatening the progress I've made. Thanks, R ---------------------------------------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2010 Report Share Posted January 10, 2010 , Friday, January 8, 2010, 5:43:22 PM, you wrote: > Now starting over with tapering off, I'm curious if any have found > alternative or supportive methods to taper or quit corticosteroids without crashing. When I have tapered hydrocortisone on several occasions, I have replaced a small amount of the hydrocortisone with pregnenolone and then tapered the pregnenolone. I repeat this process until I reach the desired level of hydrocortisone. I found that tapering the hydrocortisone in this manner produced fewer and less severe corticosteroid withdrawal symptoms. -- Best regards, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2010 Report Share Posted January 10, 2010 Hi Do you mean adrenal suppresion due to high cortisol supplementation?Hyperkalemia is related to low aldosterone. My aldosterone is low but my potassium was never out of limits. So it is my impression that it is not so easy for potassium to go out of the limits.I suggested you to have your potassium and sodium to be checked while you are on licorice as excess licorice may cause low potassium and high sodium. best wishes cindi Re: Re: Corticosteroid tapering Thanks Marti for taking the time to give these explanations. Started w/ sublingual salt today & that helped me through a few periods. Will try a pinch of licorice root in the morning and see if I can level the prednisone doses as I'm still having to spike them occasionally. If I can regulate the prednisone dose for a few days than I'll start slow with the iodine & plan on 6-8 weeks to taper off the prednisone. The steroids caused quite a stir with viruses, parasites and Lyme as they all started replicating in the first two weeks of prednisone. 3 weeks ago I took a somewhat caustic approach that only caused a week of herxing & no symptoms since. I followed with aggressive detoxing, that no doubt accelerated the adrenal and thyroid crashes. But despite some discomfort, zits and a beet red face, I'm doing well and have kept an almost regular level of activity, save for that spat of a crash this week. A little over a year ago, before I joined these groups and started learning from all of you, I was being repeatedly carted to the ER as a snotty vomiting mess to be wrongly diagnosed w/ sinusitis over these same issues. They'd pump me with every pain killer and nausea med they had which made no difference. It was always the steroids that finally worked and they thought because of inflammation, never endocronological. Cheers to our American Health Care, eh? Thanks to you Marti and many others for helping to bring me along this far. Best Wishes to All, R ---------------------------------------------------------- Hi I wanted to go one year but I had to get off in order to have some baseline testing done. I finally found a good endocrinologist and thought it worth dealing with her. She is not American trained, she was trained in a Latin American country. I think any doctors not trained in the US, are open to endocrine issues. Just my opinion. Anyway, for the nine months, I was up to 40mg of cortisol on bad/busy days and 30 mg on regular days. It didn't take long to taper down, I probably should have taken longer though as I did have some issues. I have been off since October 7th and can do without cortisol completely as long as I don't overdo it. I have housebound, chairbound and I can do light activity (cook 1 meal, take shower) per day. So if I go to get groceries or have a lengthy phone conversation or do too much mental work, I do not have enough cortisol to make it till bedtime (palpitations, alertness - all the things adrenaline does). So now I am dosing with cortisol 2.5 mg as needed on those hard days. One day, I had to use 5mg. Usually, it is around bedtime. But I can do a whole lot better in the lifestyle changes - specifically, going to bed earlier. I have found that I require more T3 once I stopped the cortisol so I am not using it efficiently. Trying to stablize that before deciding the next step. I would like to have a saliva cortisol run again before restarting cortisol or determining my next step. I have not yet had the official diagnosis of Primary or Secondary cortisol - need to have two more cortisol tests done. But, honestly, I would not have a problem staying on cortisol. If I was required to remain on cortisol for the rest of my life, I would be okay with that. I know others disagree but I am ready to start living - whatever it takes. We each have to make our own decisions that are right for our bodies and circumstances. Marti ---------------------------------------------------------- In , " csharpham " <csharpham@...> wrote: > Marti. I didn't know u had come off HC! Thats awesome. I would love nothing more than to do this but not sure if i'll ever be able to. How long were you on it before you weaned, and how long did it take? > > I've been a little better lately than i used to be when the adrenals first crashed. Been able to cook pretty much every day and been able to do more around the house. Still barely going out though at all, and still only functional at night. > > This arv for example, i had a sleep then got the GF to drive me around the block to put some items in the post box. I felt a little low before I left and didnt take any extra HC. Was okish but still low. Got home, and within about 20 mins felt myself start to crash and had to quickly dose another 5mg HC. Palps, anxiety etc, all the very low cort crashy symptoms. I dont have these crashes very often any more, which is great. But it reminds me how dependant I am just doing something as small as that can send me crashing. > > Hence the feeling that I may never get off HC. I find it a miracle if I hear of people that can get off it. ~Chris. ---------------------- 31, Male 5'9, 65kg (143lb) Secondary AI, CFS/MCS/FM 35-37mg HC, 50mg Testogel 3g Licorice root, Vit C, Mag, D3 & other supps. Melbourne, Australia. ---------------------------------------------------------- In , " marti_zavala " <marti_zavala@> wrote: Hi , > > Having just recently done this with hydrocortisone, maybe I can help a little. > > > > There are various ways to boost the adrenals or support them. > > > > The idodine will be most helpful to the thyroid but not sure how helpful for the adrenal system. Here is what I am currently using: > > > > For adrenals: > > > > Licorice root upon waking. > > Unprocessed sea salt upon waking and throughout day. I put 1/4 tsp under my tongue and follow with 6 oz of water. > > Rhodiola rosea and ashwangada after breakfast and again at lunch. > > > > No caffeine, no phosyphytidyline serine, no stimulants. (can't give up chocolate but wish I could. No MSG or other things that I am either allergic to or sensitive to. Limit my exposure to propane and chemicals as they get my heart rate up. > > > > Lifestyle changes: No stress, living within my financial budget so I don't have money stress, living within my energy budget so that I don't crash. Staying away from friends/family that are high-maintenance. Working on early to bed (by 10pm) and not rising till 9am (not going well since my circadian rhythym is so far off). > > > > Will supplement with 2.5 mg of hydrocortisone if I have overdone it during the day so that I don't have the adrenaline dump into my system further stressing the adrenals. > > > > For Thyroid: > > Tyrosine 500mg twice a day. > > Thyroid T3 (cannot tolerate Armour at this time) > > Iodine if needed > > Iron if ferritin is below 50 That's all I can think of off the top of my head- hope some of this is helpful. Marti ---------------------------------------------------------- In , " not4idiopathic " <jprutty@> wrote: > > > > > > Trying to slowly rid myself of prednisone, but my snails pace still brought down the adrenals and thyroid requiring me to spike the prednisone dose again. > > > > > > Now starting over with tapering off, I'm curious if any have found alternative or supportive methods to taper or quit corticosteroids without crashing. > > > > > > My only plan of action is to slowly introduce iodine as I decrease prednisone, but I haven't heard of this being done and am in the lurch for alternatives. > > > > > > On the side, the past two months of prednisone were for a back injury, not adrenals. I'd also recovered from Lyme and CFS enough to return to full-time work, but this current issue is threatening the progress I've made. Thanks, R ---------------------------------------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2010 Report Share Posted January 10, 2010 Hi Cindi, Yes, I agree. I have my potassium & sodium checked pretty regularly through primary care doctor - it's part of Basic & Complete Metabolic panel (at least in the US), along with chloride. I tend to forget to add this but I am on potassium (I lump that in with POTS but that is part of the endocrine system as well). But I am not on an excessive amount of Licorice as I am also on Florinef (same problem though-loss of potassium). I used to test low on potassium long before I did anything about my endorcrine system. I tend to run low normal now. (Just an FYI, you shouldn't take more than 99mg at one time - can irritate the stomach lining - that is why you don't find capsules higher than 99mg) so I space mine out by taking it twice a day). Marti > > > > > > > > Trying to slowly rid myself of prednisone, but my snails pace still brought down the adrenals and thyroid requiring me to spike the prednisone dose again. > > > > > > > > Now starting over with tapering off, I'm curious if any have found alternative or supportive methods to taper or quit corticosteroids without crashing. > > > > > > > > My only plan of action is to slowly introduce iodine as I decrease prednisone, but I haven't heard of this being done and am in the lurch for alternatives. > > > > > > > > On the side, the past two months of prednisone were for a back injury, not adrenals. I'd also recovered from Lyme and CFS enough to return to full-time work, but this current issue is threatening the progress I've made. > > Thanks, > R > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2010 Report Share Posted January 10, 2010 Hi Cindi, , Marti Cindi, before my last reply I was following the bread crumbs from what you originally said about the sodium and potassium and found this, Wikipedia: " Cortisol moves potassium out of cells in exchange for an equal number of sodium ions as mentioned above.[33] This can cause a major problem with the hyperkalemia of metabolic shock from surgery. " Now thinking again, It would likely take a rather large amount of cortisol to cause that, so please forgive the silly question and prior misspelling of your name. I actually don't get any labs done now unless something very bad happens. I dropped my insurance in September and am still fighting to keep the lights on. I went to the ER in November because of my back & was on very basic maintenance supplementation then, with all labs showing normal (mid range). This prednisone certainly wasn't planned for, so these treatments are very temporary until I get back to exercising regularly. That's always been the last step for me in recovery that brings everything else together. But who knows, I thought I'd be well past this issue already...just managed my meds poorly I suppose. , thanks for the tip about pregnenolone. I'll look into that more should I continue having problems tapering. Best part about that is, I won't need a script. Marti, I'll certainly heed your advice on the licorice max dose. I didn't pay such good attention to your warnings about glutathione injection amounts per week and paid for it. The lesson of history! Warm Regards, R -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > Trying to slowly rid myself of prednisone, but my snails pace still brought down the adrenals and thyroid requiring me to spike the prednisone dose again. > > > > > > > > Now starting over with tapering off, I'm curious if any have found alternative or supportive methods to taper or quit corticosteroids without crashing. > > > > > > > > My only plan of action is to slowly introduce iodine as I decrease prednisone, but I haven't heard of this being done and am in the lurch for alternatives. > > > > > > > > On the side, the past two months of prednisone were for a back injury, not adrenals. I'd also recovered from Lyme and CFS enough to return to full-time work, but this current issue is threatening the progress I've made. > > Thanks, > R > ---------------------------------------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 10, 2010 Report Share Posted January 10, 2010 I am sorry that you had to learn the hard way on glutathione. That can take a while to bounce back from. I actually would have done the exact same thing as I used to be a " more must be better " person. But Dr. Salvato (under whom I was getting the injections) was so firm with a stare that would melt steel, holding the syringes near her face. If any of you know her, she is a formidable woman! That scared me so I always obeyed!! If she hadn't been so firm, I would certainly have done the same thing. (Since I lived so far away, she agreed to let me inject myself and she was concerned that I would overdo it - she would certainly have been right.... Marti > Marti, I'll certainly heed your advice on the licorice max dose. I didn't pay such good attention to your warnings about glutathione injection amounts per week and paid for it. The lesson of history! > > Warm Regards, > R > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 11, 2010 Report Share Posted January 11, 2010 > (Just an FYI, you shouldn't take more than 99mg at one time - can > irritate the stomach lining - that is why you don't find capsules > higher than 99mg) so I space mine out by taking it twice a day). That's true for standard pills. If they get lodged somewhere, the local concentration of potassium can get high enough to kill cells if the pill's dose is too large. Time release pills are allowed to contain a lot more than 99 mg, but they can be dangerous too in people taking medicines like anticholinergics that slow intestinal peristalsis. Potassium powder mixed in a big glass of water is safer, since there's no way of getting a locally high concentration. I take 3 x 1 gram per day potassium citrate (total 1085 mg elemental potassium) to bring my intake up to the RDA and also get some alkalinity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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