Guest guest Posted April 7, 2000 Report Share Posted April 7, 2000 Dear Jim, Cancer cells need to store up a sufficient amount of glutamine before they can split. One of the cancer treatments is Tributyrate which prevents them from building up glutamine. Best of Health! Saul Pressman URL: http://www.plasmafire.com email: saul@... Re: orange peel, and stevia ...another view > , > > I'm on a list for people injecting growth hormone, and we > discussed glutamine at length because it is taken by some in > multiple gram doses (amino stacking) at bedtime as a secretagogue > to raise hGH levels. > > The problem is glutamine easily converts to glutamate, which is > an excitotoxin to the brain. In high doses, glutamate kills brain > cells by exciting them until they overdo, then die. There is a > point of view that countered this danger somewhat, but I didn't > find the argument very convincing. > > I know I usually explain things more thoroughly, but I didn't > follow this thread too closely due to the hostility between > protagonists, and don't understand all of the issues. I followed > it long enough to decide for myself that glutamine stacking poses > too high a risk as an hGH secretagogue, when there other aminos > that will do the same without the risks. > > For anyone interested in understanding glutamate excitotoxicity, > try searching for a good article on the dangers of aspartame, or > Nutrasweet, as one of it's main causes of risk is excitotoxicity. > Or, you can read the archives of the Rejuvenationegroups > (formerly onelist.com) list. > > jim > > -- > jim@... ICQ:16531148 > http://www.doorway.to/madscience http://www.doorway.to/poetry > > Fear is the opposite of love. -- anony > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 2.9% > Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! > 1/936/3/_/507288/_/955106763/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > OxyPLUS is an unmoderated e-ring dealing with oxidative therapies, and other alternative self- help subjects. > > THERE IS NO MEDICAL ADVICE HERE! > > This list is the 1st Amendment in action. The things you will find here are for information and research purposes only. We are people sharing information we believe in. If you act on ideas found here, you do so at your own risk. Self-help requires intelligence, common sense, and the ability to take responsibility for your own actions. By joining the list you agree to hold yourself FULLY responsible FOR yourself. Do not use any ideas found here without consulting a medical professional, unless you are a researcher or health care provider. > > You can unsubscribe via e-mail by sending A NEW e-mail to the following address - NOT TO THE OXYPLUS LIST! - > DO NOT PUT THIS IN THE SUBJECT LINE or BODY of the message! : > > oxyplus-unsubscribeonelist > > oxyplus-normalonelist - switch your subscription to normal mode. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 8, 2000 Report Share Posted April 8, 2000 I have treated hundreds of patients with glutamine without a problem. If you cull the literature for negative studies you will find them for everything from vitamin C to water, that';s right, water may be toxic! I am a Medical Advisor for Life Extension and review articles all the time. Glutamine is not toxic. Look up Jeff Bland's work. I sent a copy to Steve Fowkes of CERI and my collegue Bill Faloon at LEF to get their opinion. Re: orange peel, and stevia ...another view Jim,I take 500mg L-glutamine 2x day to heal leaky gut syndrome. Is that too much L-glutamine to safely take?>,>>I'm on a list for people injecting growth hormone, and we>discussed glutamine at length because it is taken by some in>multiple gram doses (amino stacking) at bedtime as a secretagogue>to raise hGH levels.>>The problem is glutamine easily converts to glutamate, which is>an excitotoxin to the brain. In high doses, glutamate kills brain>cells by exciting them until they overdo, then die. There is a>point of view that countered this danger somewhat, but I didn't>find the argument very convincing.>>I know I usually explain things more thoroughly, but I didn't>follow this thread too closely due to the hostility between>protagonists, and don't understand all of the issues. I followed>it long enough to decide for myself that glutamine stacking poses>too high a risk as an hGH secretagogue, when there other aminos>that will do the same without the risks.>>For anyone interested in understanding glutamate excitotoxicity,>try searching for a good article on the dangers of aspartame, or>Nutrasweet, as one of it's main causes of risk is excitotoxicity.>Or, you can read the archives of the Rejuvenationegroups>(formerly onelist.com) list.>>jim >>-->jim@... ICQ:16531148 >http://www.doorway.to/madscience http://www.doorway.to/poetry>>Fear is the opposite of love. -- anony>>------------------------------------------------------------------------>GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 2.9%>Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW!>1/936/3/_/507288/_/955106763/>------------------------------------------------------------------------>>OxyPLUS is an unmoderated e-ring dealing with oxidative therapies, >and other alternative self- help subjects.>>THERE IS NO MEDICAL ADVICE HERE!>>This list is the 1st Amendment in action. The things you will find >here are for information and research purposes only. We are people >sharing information we believe in. If you act on ideas found here, >you do so at your own risk. Self-help requires intelligence, common >sense, and the ability to take responsibility for your own actions. >By joining the list you agree to hold yourself FULLY responsible FOR >yourself. Do not use any ideas found here without consulting a >medical professional, unless you are a researcher or health care >provider.>>You can unsubscribe via e-mail by sending A NEW e-mail to the >following address - NOT TO THE OXYPLUS LIST! ->DO NOT PUT THIS IN THE SUBJECT LINE or BODY of the message! :>> oxyplus-unsubscribeonelist>> oxyplus-normalonelist - switch your subscription to normal mode. OxyPLUS is an unmoderated e-ring dealing with oxidative therapies, and other alternative self- help subjects.THERE IS NO MEDICAL ADVICE HERE!This list is the 1st Amendment in action. The things you will find here are for information and research purposes only. We are people sharing information we believe in. If you act on ideas found here, you do so at your own risk. Self-help requires intelligence, common sense, and the ability to take responsibility for your own actions. By joining the list you agree to hold yourself FULLY responsible FOR yourself. Do not use any ideas found here without consulting a medical professional, unless you are a researcher or health care provider. You can unsubscribe via e-mail by sending A NEW e-mail to the following address - NOT TO THE OXYPLUS LIST! - DO NOT PUT THIS IN THE SUBJECT LINE or BODY of the message! : oxyplus-unsubscribeonelist oxyplus-normalonelist - switch your subscription to normal mode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 8, 2000 Report Share Posted April 8, 2000 > M. Baer, MD wrote: > > I have treated hundreds of patients with glutamine without a > problem. If you cull the literature for negative studies you > will find them for everything from vitamin C to water, that';s > right, water may be toxic! I am a Medical Advisor for Life > Extension and review articles all the time. Glutamine is not > toxic. Look up Jeff Bland's work. I sent a copy to Steve > Fowkes of CERI and my collegue Bill Faloon at LEF to get their > opinion. I am on another list where many people have had bad reactions to glutamine. I am one of them. Debbie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 8, 2000 Report Share Posted April 8, 2000 i used glutamine for several months... one of the major reasons was because it has a wonderful ammonia scavenging effect, as well as being the number one free amino acid in muscle tissue. I found that if i consumed a teaspoon before heavy physical exertion i could substantially reduce muscle discomfort the following day. I was also able to better balance my acid pH. jd Re: glutamine > M. Baer, MD wrote:> > I have treated hundreds of patients with glutamine without a> problem. If you cull the literature for negative studies you> will find them for everything from vitamin C to water, that';s> right, water may be toxic! I am a Medical Advisor for Life> Extension and review articles all the time. Glutamine is not> toxic. Look up Jeff Bland's work. I sent a copy to Steve> Fowkes of CERI and my collegue Bill Faloon at LEF to get their> opinion.I am on another list where many people have had bad reactions toglutamine. I am one of them. Debbie OxyPLUS is an unmoderated e-ring dealing with oxidative therapies, and other alternative self- help subjects.THERE IS NO MEDICAL ADVICE HERE!This list is the 1st Amendment in action. The things you will find here are for information and research purposes only. We are people sharing information we believe in. If you act on ideas found here, you do so at your own risk. Self-help requires intelligence, common sense, and the ability to take responsibility for your own actions. By joining the list you agree to hold yourself FULLY responsible FOR yourself. Do not use any ideas found here without consulting a medical professional, unless you are a researcher or health care provider. You can unsubscribe via e-mail by sending A NEW e-mail to the following address - NOT TO THE OXYPLUS LIST! - DO NOT PUT THIS IN THE SUBJECT LINE or BODY of the message! : oxyplus-unsubscribeonelist oxyplus-normalonelist - switch your subscription to normal mode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 8, 2000 Report Share Posted April 8, 2000 Andy, I guess we have to agree to disagree. I am not saying you are wrong, but I am not personally comfortable with amino stacking. I don't care how many hundreds of people you have treated with glutamine, that is just hundreds. And, you don't indicate if you or any of your peers have tested your patients for any of the problems some people report, or that others fear. And, you don't say how much they took or for how long. All you are really saying is, " I haven't noticed anything. " I have encountered numerous people, as have others, who do report problems with glutamine. And, " the literature " isn't the last word, IMO. Before anything is researched, someone has to concieve the idea or see the possibility. The fact that it isn't in the literature could mean that no doctor has thought of it yet, or it could just as easily mean that no doctor could get funding for the research, or it could mean that there is no problem. It seems to me that not being in the literature is a non-sequitur. Then again, not being in the litersature could also mean no ado about something. jim -- jim@... ICQ:16531148 http://www.doorway.to/madscience http://www.doorway.to/poetry Fear is the opposite of love. -- anony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2000 Report Share Posted April 9, 2000 I agree with you. (However, the number is really a lot more than hundreds.) You are correct though. Just because I have not seen it does not mean it does not happend. Furthermore, you are right in stating that dosage has to be taken into consideration. The majority of my patients are not weight training and do not do stacking. The nightly dose of glutamine most take is about a quarter teaspoon of the powdered form. I would have to calculate the dose people get when taking Sustain for bowel rest. It is these two ways I mostly suggest to patients. I don't know what dosage people on this list are taking. Andy Re: glutamine Andy,I guess we have to agree to disagree. I am not saying you arewrong, but I am not personally comfortable with amino stacking. Idon't care how many hundreds of people you have treated withglutamine, that is just hundreds. And, you don't indicate if youor any of your peers have tested your patients for any of theproblems some people report, or that others fear. And, you don'tsay how much they took or for how long. All you are really sayingis, "I haven't noticed anything."I have encountered numerous people, as have others, who do reportproblems with glutamine. And, "the literature" isn't the lastword, IMO. Before anything is researched, someone has to concievethe idea or see the possibility. The fact that it isn't in theliterature could mean that no doctor has thought of it yet, or itcould just as easily mean that no doctor could get funding forthe research, or it could mean that there is no problem. It seemsto me that not being in the literature is a non-sequitur. Thenagain, not being in the litersature could also mean no ado aboutsomething.jim -- jim@... ICQ:16531148 http://www.doorway.to/madscience http://www.doorway.to/poetryFear is the opposite of love. -- anony OxyPLUS is an unmoderated e-ring dealing with oxidative therapies, and other alternative self- help subjects.THERE IS NO MEDICAL ADVICE HERE!This list is the 1st Amendment in action. The things you will find here are for information and research purposes only. We are people sharing information we believe in. If you act on ideas found here, you do so at your own risk. Self-help requires intelligence, common sense, and the ability to take responsibility for your own actions. By joining the list you agree to hold yourself FULLY responsible FOR yourself. Do not use any ideas found here without consulting a medical professional, unless you are a researcher or health care provider. You can unsubscribe via e-mail by sending A NEW e-mail to the following address - NOT TO THE OXYPLUS LIST! - DO NOT PUT THIS IN THE SUBJECT LINE or BODY of the message! : oxyplus-unsubscribeonelist oxyplus-normalonelist - switch your subscription to normal mode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2000 Report Share Posted April 9, 2000 Andy, I don't recall much posting on this list about that, but on the hGH list it was discussed a lot. The lowest dose I've heard so far is 2 grams on an empty stomach at bedtime. That is what was recommended to me by my MD, as an adjunct to the hGH injections, to encourage my pituitary to produce its own. jim -- jim@... ICQ:16531148 http://www.doorway.to/madscience http://www.doorway.to/poetry Fear is the opposite of love. -- anony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2000 Report Share Posted April 10, 2000 Debbie, what is that list, please. I have recommended L-Glutamine myself and would like to know about these reactions. Re: glutamine > > M. Baer, MD wrote: > > > > I have treated hundreds of patients with glutamine without a > > problem. If you cull the literature for negative studies you > > will find them for everything from vitamin C to water, that';s > > right, water may be toxic! I am a Medical Advisor for Life > > Extension and review articles all the time. Glutamine is not > > toxic. Look up Jeff Bland's work. I sent a copy to Steve > > Fowkes of CERI and my collegue Bill Faloon at LEF to get their > > opinion. > > I am on another list where many people have had bad reactions to > glutamine. I am one of them. Debbie > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 2.9% > Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! > 1/936/3/_/507288/_/955230588/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > OxyPLUS is an unmoderated e-ring dealing with oxidative therapies, and other alternative self- help subjects. > > THERE IS NO MEDICAL ADVICE HERE! > > This list is the 1st Amendment in action. The things you will find here are for information and research purposes only. We are people sharing information we believe in. If you act on ideas found here, you do so at your own risk. Self-help requires intelligence, common sense, and the ability to take responsibility for your own actions. By joining the list you agree to hold yourself FULLY responsible FOR yourself. Do not use any ideas found here without consulting a medical professional, unless you are a researcher or health care provider. > > You can unsubscribe via e-mail by sending A NEW e-mail to the following address - NOT TO THE OXYPLUS LIST! - > DO NOT PUT THIS IN THE SUBJECT LINE or BODY of the message! : > > oxyplus-unsubscribeonelist > > oxyplus-normalonelist - switch your subscription to normal mode. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2000 Report Share Posted April 10, 2000 Tis the metals list, where the mercury toxic go for help. You can join by going to http://www.cfsn.com and on the left you will see how to join. You will find many that have had this bad reaction with glutamine. Price wrote: > > Debbie, what is that list, please. I have recommended L-Glutamine myself > and > would like to know about these reactions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 29, 2000 Report Share Posted April 29, 2000 I have also personally found glutamine supplementation to be highly beneficial, have recommended it to many others, and know of many (esp. bodybuilders) who use it. The dosages you are talking about are quite low, most of us take 10-30 grams per day. In addition to comprising approx. 50% of skeletal muscle, it also is the precursor for GABA and the brain can use glutamine for fuel in the absence of glucose. So it is important. Since glutamine is converted in the gut to glutamate via glutamine synsythase and then to 5 ATP molecules, it is feasible those having problems with it are not converting it to ATP and it is leaking into the bloodstream as glutamate, which in excess is surely a neurotoxin (So is an excess of NO as well, so you might make the same complaint about arginine). As for why this is occurring, I suspect there may be several cuplrits. One person mentioned mercury toxicity due to amalgams. I am seeing this so often I am sick about it in those I'm helping with CFS. Second, and perhaps because of gut/immune system problems caused by mercury and/or diet, a low level of methylation is occurring in those having problems with glutamine, as I believe it requires SAMe to step it to ATP, as does the conversion of other aminos to their respective neurotransmitters. It would be easy enough to test this by taking 200-400 mg SAMe along with your glutamine. NADH would peobably work too. The fundamental problem with CFS appears to be that the immune system gets destroyed in the gut, and then the body has lost the system that maintains and repairs itself. If someone has used a product that quickly restores the intestinal flora, please let me know about it. I have not found a good one yet. Also, for those of you who were around this summer and recall me discussing a relationship with a woman who kinda " flipped out " on me, I have put many of the pieces together and determined it is quite likely mercury amalgams were a big part of why she had such a serious mood disorder, kidney problems, etc. It is so sad that these people get into an irrational state and you can't reason with them. Unfortunately when these people are surrounded by less enlightened folks, to whom they naturally cling when adversity strikes, it is virtually impossible to help them. Their " friends " instinctively protect them from anyone who might be able to help them. ly, I believe the mercury problem is far bigger than most realise. Of course it's only a problem if you're not making money from other peoples illnesses. Thanks Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 29, 2000 Report Share Posted April 29, 2000 Dear Matt, I agree with you on the connection of mercury and CFS. Candida sets up house in weakened areas, after its release from the gut through the actions of antibiotics. CFS should be classified as an iatrogenic disease. A large part of the immune system is composed of the lymphatic system, and Peyer's patches are lymphatic tissue in the small intestine. They absorb 90% of the fats we consume and send them to the liver. Anything that interferes with their functioning will disrupt the process of hormone production as well. I am uncomfortable with the recommendation to consume glutamine. Cancer cells require large amounts of glutamine in order to divide. They store it up until a critical amount is reached. One of the cancer treatments is Tributyrate, which blocks the storage of glutamine, thus halting tumor growth. I am leery of giving cancerous cells more help. Most of us have several hundred cancerous cells at any given moment. As long as the body's cleanup functions are intact, they are removed in the normal course of events. When this system breaks down, proliferation begins. Then, ten years later, we are 'struck' by cancer. Best of Health! Saul Pressman URL: http://www.plasmafire.com email: saul@... Re: Glutamine > I have also personally found glutamine supplementation to be highly > beneficial, have recommended it to many others, and know of many (esp. > bodybuilders) who use it. The dosages you are talking about are quite low, > most of us take 10-30 grams per day. > > In addition to comprising approx. 50% of skeletal muscle, it also is the > precursor for GABA and the brain can use glutamine for fuel in the absence > of glucose. So it is important. > > Since glutamine is converted in the gut to glutamate via glutamine > synsythase and then to 5 ATP molecules, it is feasible those having > problems with it are not converting it to ATP and it is leaking into the > bloodstream as glutamate, which in excess is surely a neurotoxin (So is an > excess of NO as well, so you might make the same complaint about arginine). > > As for why this is occurring, I suspect there may be several cuplrits. One > person mentioned mercury toxicity due to amalgams. I am seeing this so often > I am sick about it in those I'm helping with CFS. Second, and perhaps > because of gut/immune system problems caused by mercury and/or diet, a low > level of methylation is occurring in those having problems with glutamine, > as I believe it requires SAMe to step it to ATP, as does the conversion of > other aminos to their respective neurotransmitters. It would be easy enough > to test this by taking 200-400 mg SAMe along with your glutamine. NADH would > peobably work too. > > The fundamental problem with CFS appears to be that the immune system gets > destroyed in the gut, and then the body has lost the system that maintains > and repairs itself. If someone has used a product that quickly restores the > intestinal flora, please let me know about it. I have not found a good one > yet. > > Also, for those of you who were around this summer and recall me discussing > a relationship with a woman who kinda " flipped out " on me, I have put many > of the pieces together and determined it is quite likely mercury amalgams > were a big part of why she had such a serious mood disorder, kidney > problems, etc. It is so sad that these people get into an irrational state > and you can't reason with them. Unfortunately when these people are > surrounded by less enlightened folks, to whom they naturally cling when > adversity strikes, it is virtually impossible to help them. Their " friends " > instinctively protect them from anyone who might be able to help them. > ly, I believe the mercury problem is far bigger than most realise. Of > course it's only a problem if you're not making money from other peoples > illnesses. > > Thanks > > Matt > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Accurate impartial advice on everything from laptops to table saws. > 1/3020/3/_/507288/_/957048999/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > OxyPLUS is an unmoderated e-ring dealing with oxidative therapies, and other alternative self- help subjects. > > THERE IS NO MEDICAL ADVICE HERE! > > This list is the 1st Amendment in action. The things you will find here are for information and research purposes only. We are people sharing information we believe in. If you act on ideas found here, you do so at your own risk. Self-help requires intelligence, common sense, and the ability to take responsibility for your own actions. By joining the list you agree to hold yourself FULLY responsible FOR yourself. Do not use any ideas found here without consulting a medical professional, unless you are a researcher or health care provider. > > You can unsubscribe via e-mail by sending A NEW e-mail to the following address - NOT TO THE OXYPLUS LIST! - > DO NOT PUT THIS IN THE SUBJECT LINE or BODY of the message! : > > oxyplus-unsubscribeonelist > > oxyplus-normalonelist - switch your subscription to normal mode. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 30, 2000 Report Share Posted April 30, 2000 Matt, Just because body builders take 10-30 grams a day is no indication AT ALL that it is safe to do so. They also take shots of anabolic steroids. The fact that these body builders don't already exhibit problems from amino stacking is more likely due glutamate poisoning being a cumulative thing. We'll have to agree to disagree on consuming large daily doses of glutamine, or any amino acid for that matter. Neither one of us knows the ultimate answer or we would have already shared it along with our proof. As for a good SBO for your intestines, I have used one for several years, another for a year, and just found two more great brands. They are: Multidophilus by Solaray, containing 4 strains; Jarro-Dophilus by Jarrow Formulas, containing 6 strains including plantarum; PB8 (pro biotic 8) by Nutrition Now, also with plantarum; and finally, Inner Garden Flora by R'Garden, containing 9 strains including both plantarum & Salivarius!! All of these are reasonably priced, but the Solaray brand is getting rather high considering it doesn't have any of the several strains I consider most important. Still, it works wonders. The Jarro-Dophilus is the best bang-for-the-buck, and it & the Solaray are available all over the country. On a personal note, I'm glad to hear you've gotten some distance from the situation you once described to me. In the end, all we mortals can do is muddle through until the clouds clear & the storm is over. Best of luck! jim Matt Curtin wrote: > > I have also personally found glutamine supplementation to be highly > beneficial, have recommended it to many others, and know of many (esp. > bodybuilders) who use it. The dosages you are talking about are quite low, > most of us take 10-30 grams per day. If someone has used a product that quickly restores the > intestinal flora, please let me know about it. I have not found a good one > yet. > -- jim@... ICQ:16531148 http://www.doorway.to/madscience http://www.doorway.to/poetry Fear is the opposite of love. -- anony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 28, 2000 Report Share Posted November 28, 2000 Krieger wrote: > Many things will increase plasma gH concentrations. Holding your > breath is > one of them. If one's goal is to get rises in blood gH > concentrations, I > think regular breath-holding would be a lot cheaper than regular > glutamine > supplementation. > > Would you explain this please, Parks,DC Phoenix AZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 29, 2000 Report Share Posted November 29, 2000 I'm a Critical Care Physician and an amateur triathlete ( IM distance ) . I've heard of glutamine some 10 yrs ago and its use with critically ill patients. I began taking it on my own long before medical literature suggested its use in athletes, with doses up to 70 grams/day. The endpoint was the same in the critically ill : restore immune function. I can assure you that besides well balanced nutrition, it's the ONLY supplement that I've noticed a REAL EFFECT on myself and I've taken almost all of them over the years (except AAS, of course). It's impressive how glutamine speeds post-training recovery and that hard workouts " hangover " effect . Better is to take it as glutamine dipeptide (greater absroption and more stable when diluted , but more $$$$ !) JN From: Mike [mailto:mmurphy@...] Tom: > What's the difference between taking the glutamine all at once > or spreading it out over the day with 2 grams each? On 28 Nov 00, Incledon wrote: > > I think all can be used effectively, but I prefer straight sets with a > > given load. > > > > Creatine prior to training will not improve performance, unless you > > believe the effervescent creatine ads. The latest paper on > > powerlifters that I just reviewed indicates the same results for > > strength-trained and sprint-trained athletes. What was interesting is > > that creatine prior to training does appear to increase creatine > > stores within the muscle, yet the performance is not improved. There > > appears to be some lag time between the increase in intracellular > > creatine stores and the ability to improve performance. > > > > Creatine after training seems like the best strategy at this time as > > long as you are taking it with a high glycemic drink to maximize > > insulin release. > > > > Glutamine is a tough call. Ideally we could measure serum levels and > > determine if you need some or not. It is clear that people with a > > compromised immune function and/or highly stressed system can benefit > > from glutamine. If non-clinical cases, it’s hit or miss. I have some > > clients doing very well with and other that see no effect. > > > > The best strategy is to formulate a plan and set-up a timeline where > > you will monitor your progress after trying the glutamine as the only > > change to your current strategy. Does as high as 40 grams per day > > have been used clinically and anecdotally I have seen guys use much > > more. > > > > While excess ammonia is a theoretical concern, so far I haven’t seen > > any ammonia related issues in the literature or in my personal > > experience. I would suggest starting at 2 g several times per day and > > working up from there. Usually this is as simple as adding about * > > teaspoon to a Gatorade type beverage. If you are experiencing diarrhea > > then you have too many agents in your drink, so cut back on something. , MS, LATC, CSCS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 29, 2000 Report Share Posted November 29, 2000 Mike: If you take a large dose of glutamine at one time the osmolality in the GI tract will be high and you will most likely get some type of diarrhea. By spreading it out you also do a better job of maintaining levels in the blood, so you don’t get a big spike and then have nothing the rest of the day. Progressing from smaller to larger doses also allows you to find out at what range the glutamine appears to “work.” This way you can take what works and not waste money taking much larger than needed doses. Tom Incledon, MS, RD, LD/N, NSCA-CPT, CSCS Human Performance Specialists, Inc. 619 NW 90th Terrace Plantation, FL 33324 (954) 577-0689 office (954) 533-0614 fax email: hpsinc@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 30, 2000 Report Share Posted November 30, 2000 I have to step into this discussion here because I am doing my thesis study on glutamine and I disagree with some of 's conclusions. From: <andreamiller@...> > Glutamine supplementation is more effective if taken over the course of > the day, than taken once, for a number of reasons. One being its role in > hormonal regulation and production (1). It has anabolic effects on > hormones by stimulating production of both growth hormone (2) I own this paper you referenced and the elevation in plasma gH concentrations is relatively small with an oral glutamine load. Also, it is a HUGE leap to insinuate that a simple rise in a blood concentration of an anabolic hormone like gH will carry over to an anabolic effect on muscle tissue. Actually, plasma gH concentrations are of little importance to muscle hypertrophy. Just read any animal paper on exogenous gH administration and hypertrophy. Human studies with gH replacement therapy also have similar conclusions...an increase in lean body mass but no increase in strength, indicating an increase in noncontractile tissue and not protein accretion. Many things will increase plasma gH concentrations. Holding your breath is one of them. If one's goal is to get rises in blood gH concentrations, I think regular breath-holding would be a lot cheaper than regular glutamine supplementation. >and testosterone (3). Whooaaaa, another big leap. This study you reference did not show that supplemental glutamine will increase blood testosterone concentrations. This study was an animal study on rats at the onset of puberty. The rats were administered a glutamate antagonist which inhibited GnRH secretion. The rats were then given supplemental glutamine to see if it affected GnRH secretion. The researchers were trying to determine if glutamate synthesis from endogenous glutamine played a role in GnRH secretion. > increases inter-organ carbon transport (5),both of > which are helpful in increasing training intensity and recovery > time. This paper that you reference identifies glutamine as a major gluconeogenic precursor in the postabsorptive state, i.e. it is being changed into glucose after a meal. I don't see how ingesting glutamine and then seeing it convert to glucose is of any benefit to training intensity and recovery. >Additionally, glutamine reduces cortisol production which causes protein >catabolism and muscle atrophy (6), and improves nitrogen balance (7). These studies did not show supplemental glutamine to reduce cortisol production. One showed a potential mechanism by how *infusion* (not oral supplementation) of a glutamine dipeptide in *animals* (not humans) would prevent muscle atrophy. The rats were infused with a glucocorticoid. This is an extremely artificial environment that is not representative of the type of environment an athlete is in. In the other study, supplemental glutamine by *infusion* improved nitrogen balance in *surgical* patients, not athletes. Surgery is a tremendous stress on the body and places a tremendous drain on glutamine homeostasis. Most athletic training regimens do not. > A number of studies show the effectiveness of glutamine supplementation, > in healthy trained subjects, some of which I have referenced here. Only one of the studies you reference involved exercising subjects. All of the rest involved animals or medical patients. Krieger Graduate student, exercise science Washington State University Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 1, 2000 Report Share Posted December 1, 2000 : You did a very good job of interpreting the studies. On another list, I posted a very similar response to the studies posted by . On a few occasions, I have read your mention of glutamine as part of your thesis. What exactly does your project involve? Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 10, 2001 Report Share Posted February 10, 2001 > From: " Rosemary Wedderburn " <CookieMagic@...> > > I keep reading about what a great amino acid this is and of course a lot of > supplement companies are pushing it. Then I hear that even though you > overload your system with it, it either won't get through because it is used > by the intestinal tract. Rosemary, individuals who make this comment are misinterpreting research on glutamine. Studies on *isolated intestinal preparations* have shown that the intestine has a high uptake of *plasma* glutamine, not *dietary* glutamine. Oral glutamine supplementation is quite effective at increasing plasma concentrations, and thus dietary glutamine is not consumed by the intestine. >Another downside, although I've only seen this > mentioned a couple of times, is that amino acids have a certain ratio in > natural foods. I would think these would differ depending on what the food > is, i.e. meat would have a different amino acid profile than vegetables or > fruit. The thought here was that it was not a good thing to overload the > system with only one amino acid because it would overshadow the others in a > detrimental way. This assumes, I gather, than a person ate a balanced diet. > Any comments on the above statements and whether glutamine supplementation is > harmful, beneficial or simply a waste of money? I do not know of any evidence that shows the glutamine supplementation is harmful in any way. There is some evidence that *suggests* that supplementation might be of benefit to *overtrained athletes* in helping maintain their immune system (which is what my thesis study will focus on). But currently there is no evidence that glutamine supplementation is of benefit to non-overtrained athletes. I'm not saying that it is not of benefit, but there is no evidence on healthy athletes to show a benefit. Krieger Graduate student, exercise science Washington State University Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 10, 2001 Report Share Posted February 10, 2001 > From: " Rosemary Wedderburn " <CookieMagic@...> > > I keep reading about what a great amino acid this is and of course a lot of > supplement companies are pushing it. Then I hear that even though you > overload your system with it, it either won't get through because it is used > by the intestinal tract. Rosemary, individuals who make this comment are misinterpreting research on glutamine. Studies on *isolated intestinal preparations* have shown that the intestine has a high uptake of *plasma* glutamine, not *dietary* glutamine. Oral glutamine supplementation is quite effective at increasing plasma concentrations, and thus dietary glutamine is not consumed by the intestine. >Another downside, although I've only seen this > mentioned a couple of times, is that amino acids have a certain ratio in > natural foods. I would think these would differ depending on what the food > is, i.e. meat would have a different amino acid profile than vegetables or > fruit. The thought here was that it was not a good thing to overload the > system with only one amino acid because it would overshadow the others in a > detrimental way. This assumes, I gather, than a person ate a balanced diet. > Any comments on the above statements and whether glutamine supplementation is > harmful, beneficial or simply a waste of money? I do not know of any evidence that shows the glutamine supplementation is harmful in any way. There is some evidence that *suggests* that supplementation might be of benefit to *overtrained athletes* in helping maintain their immune system (which is what my thesis study will focus on). But currently there is no evidence that glutamine supplementation is of benefit to non-overtrained athletes. I'm not saying that it is not of benefit, but there is no evidence on healthy athletes to show a benefit. Krieger Graduate student, exercise science Washington State University Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 18, 2009 Report Share Posted August 18, 2009 I guess most cfs/me people have a gut that could function better, I heard that glutamine is supposed to be great for leaky gut and helping gut function and supposedly lots of other good functions, I just cant seem to fing many cfs/me people who use it who could give me advice, any one use it???? cheers JIM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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