Can Magnesium deplete calcium (or other minerals)?

[Guest guest]

Last November I had the Fatigue test done and my Ca came out at 355 nmol/l on

outer mitochondrial membranes. I immediately went on 2000mg/day of Mg malate

and have just had the test repeated. It is down ot 325, but this is not

significantly lower as the normal range is 50 to 200. During the test the cells

are soaked in Mg and then retested and mine came out as not being responsive to

Mg. There is s school of thought that thinks that high Ca is the key to CFS as

so many severely affected patients who do not respond to mitochondrial support

all have very high Calcium content.

Pam

>

> sorry to dig up an old thread, I was researching magnesium and calcium ratios

and I am quite confused, so patrick holford says that for healthy people a 3:2

ratio of calcium to magnesium is right? so thats more calcium than magnesium, so

why for magnesium deficient people does he say a 1:1 ratio!? it doesnt seem

logical, can someone explain?!

> regards JIM

>

> > > >

> > > > Magnesium and Calcium

> > > >

> > > > Holford says 'Magnesium interacts with calcium, so magnesium

> > > > supplements should be given only to people with adequate calcium

> > > > intake, or supplementing calcium. The ideal ratio of magnesium to

calcium is probably 2:3, and in cases of magnesium deficiency 1:1.'

> > > > ( Holford's New Optimum Nutrition Bible, Piatkus 2004,

>

[Guest guest]

Hi - There are several possible reasons for oral magnesium being insufficient to

provide adequate magnesium. One is genetic, i.e. there are several recently

discovered magnesium transporters (TRPMs), that affect magnesium balance, for

which mutations could play a role in a magnesium imbalance. Also, diet

definitely plays a role, i.e. foods high in either phytic or oxalic acid, can

reduce magnesium absorption. High amounts of phosphate combined with calcium

may also decrease magnesium absorption. Additionally, high levels of

aldosterone can decrease magnesium absorption (aldosterone can be high, due to a

low sodium diet).

Magnesium absorption and balance has never been totally understood, as not

enough significance has been given to magnesium. I'll bet there are still many

factors which affect magnesium, which are still unknown. - Mark

>

> I took various forms of magnesium supplements for 10 years and still had a

deficiency. Eventually I developed parkinsism type symptoms where I couldn't

sit still- my head felt like it was always moving. I was jittery too, my doctor

thought I was on drugs. I also had shortness of breath when I walked a couple

of blocks.

>

> I tried magnesium and taurine injections 3x/week for a couple of months and

these symptoms went away. It also improved my sleep. It gave me an overall

sense of well being.

>

> I do injections for 6 weeks- 2 months each year just to keep my stores up.

>

> nat

>

>

>

> > In my previous post, I didn't meant to say that normal oral magnesium can't

increase serum magnesium. What I meant to say was that it can't increase serum

magnesium to excess amounts, like magnesium injections might be able to do. -

Mark

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Nat

Dr. Braverman says Parkinson's is related to low dopamine. For further

info you may wish to consider checking his book `the edge effect`.

cindi

>

>

>>

>> I took various forms of magnesium supplements for 10 years and still had

>> a deficiency. Eventually I developed parkinsism type symptoms where I

>> couldn't sit still- my head felt like it was always moving. I was jittery

>> too, my doctor thought I was on drugs. I also had shortness of breath

>> when I walked a couple of blocks.

>>

>> I tried magnesium and taurine injections 3x/week for a couple of months

>> and these symptoms went away. It also improved my sleep. It gave me an

>> overall sense of well being.

>>

>> I do injections for 6 weeks- 2 months each year just to keep my stores

>> up.

>>

>> nat

>>

[Guest guest]

Hi Jim,

I took the magnesium taurate made by off and on for a year. In me and

the two others that shared it with me, we all had the same response every time.

Lots of energy for 3-5 days, then crash. After that it didn't seem the

mag-taurate helped much. My guess is the combo depletes something else in the

body, then after time off it regenerating the mag-taurate would work again for a

few days...then crash.

I haven't had that reaction from Citrate, Sulfate, Chloride or Malate. I just

got back on malate and have more consistent positive results than I can mention

with the others. Just not sure of how it may affect infections. I say that

because the malic acid (malate) drives down the intracellular ph, which allows

the magnesium to be better absorbed. Per some recent posts here, it seems the

ph level is necessary to maintain some resemblance of immune function. Seems

like everything is a trade... no wonder we can't accumulate wealth in health!

R

From: thescriptfiles

Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 8:20 AM

Subject: Re: Can Magnesium deplete calcium (or other

minerals)?

hi recently I have been thinking of tryin taurine and mag combined, there is mag

taurate in shops, or a trial of just taurine, I have read taurine does something

with calcium too, the symptoms you describe are quite similar to some I have

experienced too,

cheers JIM

>

> I took various forms of magnesium supplements for 10 years and still had a

deficiency. Eventually I developed parkinsism type symptoms where I couldn't sit

still- my head felt like it was always moving. I was jittery too, my doctor

thought I was on drugs. I also had shortness of breath when I walked a couple of

blocks.

>

> I tried magnesium and taurine injections 3x/week for a couple of months and

these symptoms went away. It also improved my sleep. It gave me an overall sense

of well being.

>

> I do injections for 6 weeks- 2 months each year just to keep my stores up.

>

> nat

>

>

>

> > In my previous post, I didn't meant to say that normal oral magnesium can't

increase serum magnesium. What I meant to say was that it can't increase serum

magnesium to excess amounts, like magnesium injections might be able to do. -

Mark

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I'm new here but i've seen references to

" Fatigue testing "

is this a blood test or biopsy?

where do you get it?

From: pamandnoel <pamandnoel@...>

Subject: Re: Can Magnesium deplete calcium (or other

minerals)?

Date: Tuesday, May 19, 2009, 12:16 PM

Last November I had the Fatigue test done and my Ca came out at 355 nmol/l on

outer mitochondrial membranes. I immediately went on 2000mg/day of Mg malate

and have just had the test repeated. It is down ot 325, but this is not

significantly lower as the normal range is 50 to 200. During the test the cells

are soaked in Mg and then retested and mine came out as not being responsive to

Mg. There is s school of thought that thinks that high Ca is the key to CFS as

so many severely affected patients who do not respond to mitochondrial support

all have very high Calcium content.

Pam

>

> sorry to dig up an old thread, I was researching magnesium and calcium ratios

and I am quite confused, so patrick holford says that for healthy people a 3:2

ratio of calcium to magnesium is right? so thats more calcium than magnesium, so

why for magnesium deficient people does he say a 1:1 ratio!? it doesnt seem

logical, can someone explain?!

> regards JIM

>

> > > >

> > > > Magnesium and Calcium

> > > >

> > > > Holford says 'Magnesium interacts with calcium, so magnesium

> > > > supplements should be given only to people with adequate calcium

> > > > intake, or supplementing calcium. The ideal ratio of magnesium to

calcium is probably 2:3, and in cases of magnesium deficiency 1:1.'

> > > > ( Holford's New Optimum Nutrition Bible, Piatkus 2004,

>

[Guest guest]

It is a blood test. I'm in the UK, if you are here also then email me privately

and I'll let you know who to go to. Don't know about US. It isn't cheap though

- what a surprise! However it is the very first test I have had that actually

proves that I am ill. Not that my GP is interested - probably because she isn't

prepared to understand it! Hey no Pam

> >

> > sorry to dig up an old thread, I was researching magnesium and calcium

ratios and I am quite confused, so patrick holford says that for healthy people

a 3:2 ratio of calcium to magnesium is right? so thats more calcium than

magnesium, so why for magnesium deficient people does he say a 1:1 ratio!? it

doesnt seem logical, can someone explain?!

> > regards JIM

> >

> > > > >

> > > > > Magnesium and Calcium

> > > > >

> > > > > Holford says 'Magnesium interacts with calcium, so magnesium

> > > > > supplements should be given only to people with adequate calcium

> > > > > intake, or supplementing calcium. The ideal ratio of magnesium to

calcium is probably 2:3, and in cases of magnesium deficiency 1:1.'

> > > > > ( Holford's New Optimum Nutrition Bible, Piatkus 2004,

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi -Have you had either your vitamin D or PTH levels tested? As I mentioned

before, elevated PTH can cause increased intracellular calcium levels. Elevated

PTH can be due to either a calcium deficiency, or also a vitamin D deficiency.

For more information about this, see this webpage:

http://www.naturopathydigest.com/archives/2006/sep/vasquez.php

- Mark

> > >

> > > sorry to dig up an old thread, I was researching magnesium and calcium

ratios and I am quite confused, so patrick holford says that for healthy people

a 3:2 ratio of calcium to magnesium is right? so thats more calcium than

magnesium, so why for magnesium deficient people does he say a 1:1 ratio!? it

doesnt seem logical, can someone explain?!

> > > regards JIM

> > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Magnesium and Calcium

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Holford says 'Magnesium interacts with calcium, so

magnesium

> > > > > > supplements should be given only to people with adequate calcium

> > > > > > intake, or supplementing calcium. The ideal ratio of magnesium to

calcium is probably 2:3, and in cases of magnesium deficiency 1:1.'

> > > > > > ( Holford's New Optimum Nutrition Bible, Piatkus 2004,

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

the PTH test is something I have never had tested, does anyone know of anyone

who has had it tested who also had high intracellular calcium? I wonder if the

parathyroid could the key why so many have high intracellular calcium, I have

met so many people who have this issue but never met anyone who has had PTH

tested....maybe its an area that could be significant to us cfs/ME sufferers?!

would really love to hear from anyone who had had some luck via PTH test and

cured their intracellular calcium

cheers JIM

> > > >

> > > > sorry to dig up an old thread, I was researching magnesium and calcium

ratios and I am quite confused, so patrick holford says that for healthy people

a 3:2 ratio of calcium to magnesium is right? so thats more calcium than

magnesium, so why for magnesium deficient people does he say a 1:1 ratio!? it

doesnt seem logical, can someone explain?!

> > > > regards JIM

> > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Magnesium and Calcium

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Holford says 'Magnesium interacts with calcium, so

magnesium

> > > > > > > supplements should be given only to people with adequate calcium

> > > > > > > intake, or supplementing calcium. The ideal ratio of magnesium to

calcium is probably 2:3, and in cases of magnesium deficiency 1:1.'

> > > > > > > ( Holford's New Optimum Nutrition Bible, Piatkus 2004,

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Hi Mark - interesting article. Thanks for posting it. Yes have had thyroid

tested and all within normal range. So why does Cheney and one of my docs then

think that Vit D3 is toxic? Who knows?!

Pam

> > > >

> > > > sorry to dig up an old thread, I was researching magnesium and calcium

ratios and I am quite confused, so patrick holford says that for healthy people

a 3:2 ratio of calcium to magnesium is right? so thats more calcium than

magnesium, so why for magnesium deficient people does he say a 1:1 ratio!? it

doesnt seem logical, can someone explain?!

> > > > regards JIM

> > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Magnesium and Calcium

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Holford says 'Magnesium interacts with calcium, so

magnesium

> > > > > > > supplements should be given only to people with adequate calcium

> > > > > > > intake, or supplementing calcium. The ideal ratio of magnesium to

calcium is probably 2:3, and in cases of magnesium deficiency 1:1.'

> > > > > > > ( Holford's New Optimum Nutrition Bible, Piatkus 2004,

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

hey coming in late to this thread, sorry didnt catch what does " PTH' stand for

in that test?

I read that link to article on intracellular calcium, i have wonderd about that

for me years back after saw article linking it possibly to scoliosis which I

have had since a kid (not severe supposedly) but I have never suffered from high

b/p one of the common signs of high intracellular calcium, don't a lot of

cfs-ers have low b/p?

> > > > >

> > > > > sorry to dig up an old thread, I was researching magnesium and

calcium ratios and I am quite confused, so patrick holford says that for healthy

people a 3:2 ratio of calcium to magnesium is right? so thats more calcium than

magnesium, so why for magnesium deficient people does he say a 1:1 ratio!? it

doesnt seem logical, can someone explain?!

> > > > > regards JIM

> > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Magnesium and Calcium

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Holford says 'Magnesium interacts with calcium, so

magnesium

> > > > > > > > supplements should be given only to people with adequate

calcium

> > > > > > > > intake, or supplementing calcium. The ideal ratio of magnesium

to calcium is probably 2:3, and in cases of magnesium deficiency 1:1.'

> > > > > > > > ( Holford's New Optimum Nutrition Bible, Piatkus 2004,

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

yes I would be fascinated to know why cheney says this too about d3, has anyone

watched the DVD yet of his recent talk? does he explain on there?

regards JIM

> > > > >

> > > > > sorry to dig up an old thread, I was researching magnesium and

calcium ratios and I am quite confused, so patrick holford says that for healthy

people a 3:2 ratio of calcium to magnesium is right? so thats more calcium than

magnesium, so why for magnesium deficient people does he say a 1:1 ratio!? it

doesnt seem logical, can someone explain?!

> > > > > regards JIM

> > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Magnesium and Calcium

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Holford says 'Magnesium interacts with calcium, so

magnesium

> > > > > > > > supplements should be given only to people with adequate

calcium

> > > > > > > > intake, or supplementing calcium. The ideal ratio of magnesium

to calcium is probably 2:3, and in cases of magnesium deficiency 1:1.'

> > > > > > > > ( Holford's New Optimum Nutrition Bible, Piatkus 2004,

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

thescriptfiles wrote:

> the PTH test is something I have never had tested, does anyone know of anyone

who has had it tested who also had high intracellular calcium? I wonder if the

parathyroid could the key why so many have high intracellular calcium, I have

met so many people who have this issue but never met anyone who has had PTH

tested....maybe its an area that could be significant to us cfs/ME sufferers?!

> would really love to hear from anyone who had had some luck via PTH test and

cured their intracellular calcium

I strongly suggest you got to: http://parathyroid.com/ and read the

information there. NFI.

Jeri <teewinot13@...>

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07:00:00

[Guest guest]

Hi, Jim.

Dr. Cheney is currently basing his judgment about whether a substance is

beneficial or harmful in CFS by how his patients respond in terms of the IVRT

parameter that he monitors with an echocardiograph, while he puts a small amount

of the substance on their skin with a transdermal gel. He measures the change

that occurs initially, which happens in a minute or a few minutes. IVRT is a

measure of the diastolic dysfunction of the heart, and higher values mean that

the heart muscle is relaxing more slowly, which represents worse diastolic

dysfunction.

I would like to see him make measurements at longer times, because I don't

believe that the short-term response accurately reflects the long-term effects

of the substance tested. I might add that as far as I know, Dr. Cheney is the

only one doing this and interpreting it this way.

Best regards,

Rich

> > > > > >

> > > > > > sorry to dig up an old thread, I was researching magnesium and

calcium ratios and I am quite confused, so patrick holford says that for healthy

people a 3:2 ratio of calcium to magnesium is right? so thats more calcium than

magnesium, so why for magnesium deficient people does he say a 1:1 ratio!? it

doesnt seem logical, can someone explain?!

> > > > > > regards JIM

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Magnesium and Calcium

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Holford says 'Magnesium interacts with calcium, so

magnesium

> > > > > > > > > supplements should be given only to people with adequate

calcium

> > > > > > > > > intake, or supplementing calcium. The ideal ratio of

magnesium to calcium is probably 2:3, and in cases of magnesium deficiency 1:1.'

> > > > > > > > > ( Holford's New Optimum Nutrition Bible, Piatkus 2004,

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

[Guest guest]

Calcium depletes Magnesium; Magnesium helps uptake the B-Vitamins; a.

In

" Mark London " <mrl@...> wrote:

>

> Hi -Have you had either your vitamin D or PTH levels tested? As I mentioned

before, elevated PTH can cause increased intracellular calcium levels. Elevated

PTH can be due to either a calcium deficiency, or also a vitamin D deficiency.

For more information about this, see this webpage:

>

> http://www.naturopathydigest.com/archives/2006/sep/vasquez.php

>

> - Mark

>

{Moderator: Trimmed previous posts}

[Guest guest]

Hi - As I've posted before, I've come across no study which shows that taking

calcium will deplete the body of magnesium, nor the other way around either

(except for magnesium injections). Do you have a study which shows that taking

calcium supplementation will deplete magnesium? - Mark

> >

> > Hi -Have you had either your vitamin D or PTH levels tested? As I mentioned

before, elevated PTH can cause increased intracellular calcium levels. Elevated

PTH can be due to either a calcium deficiency, or also a vitamin D deficiency.

For more information about this, see this webpage:

> >

> > http://www.naturopathydigest.com/archives/2006/sep/vasquez.php

> >

> > - Mark

> >

>

> {Moderator: Trimmed previous posts}

>

[Guest guest]

If calcium is taken at the same time as magnesium it will block magnesium

absorption. I don't have any of the study information off hand, but I've

read them online, as well as being told this from my non-mainstream doctor.

Robin

On Wed, May 27, 2009 at 12:32 PM, Mark London <mrl@...> wrote:

>

>

> Hi - As I've posted before, I've come across no study which shows that

> taking calcium will deplete the body of magnesium, nor the other way around

> either (except for magnesium injections). Do you have a study which shows

> that taking calcium supplementation will deplete magnesium? - Mark

>

>

> > >

> > > Hi -Have you had either your vitamin D or PTH levels tested? As I

> mentioned before, elevated PTH can cause increased intracellular calcium

> levels. Elevated PTH can be due to either a calcium deficiency, or also a

> vitamin D deficiency. For more information about this, see this webpage:

> > >

> > > http://www.naturopathydigest.com/archives/2006/sep/vasquez.php

> > >

> > > - Mark

> > >

> >

> > {Moderator: Trimmed previous posts}

> >

>

>

>