Re: Irritated by all this FAT talk

[Guest guest]

I’m coming in at the end of this discussion, and so don’t want to inflame a

thread which I haven’t followed, but I have had ME since 1970 I am 47 and

other than during pregnancy, have weighed pretty well 7 ½ stone throughout

all my adult life since the age of about 19. This is despite being on some

drugs (useless attempts at ameliorating the ME) such as very high HRT which

inclines on to put on weight. I really personally see little correlation

between ME and obesity. Even when I relapsed so badly that my physical

effort was near zero, I adjusted how much I ate to take account of this.

Just my 2 pennorth,

Rosie

I have to say I am more than a little bit irritated by the attempts to

somehow politically join CFS and obesity and present some sort of

consolidated front against the the slim and the healthy.

I am also sick of hearing how fat people all have virus's, genetic problems

or some other form of illness that makes them fat. How can anyone sane deny

the link between overeating or eating badly and being overweight. One cannot

justify this sort of garbage science. Being fat may in some case be a real

problem with the thyroid or other organs but for most including MYSELF, it

is over consumption. I got sick last week and lost weight, I got bells palsy

a while back, could not eat properly and lost LOTs of weight. Over Christmas

I indulged and put on a few pounds. That is who it works for billions of

human beings, how can you deny this fundamental truth!!!

Weight is not an issue of subtle biochemistry, it is the FUNDAMENTALS OF

PHYSICS. You cannot get more energy out that you put in. You eat less and

exercise so that you burn of more calories than you put in and you lose

weight.

Trying to link Obesity with ME/CFS is disingenuous and harms the

creditability of the hundreds on this site who have a real and subtle

illness which we can do nothing about yet strive everyday to help ourselves

and each other. Letting people spout garbage science on our site destroys

any credibility we have as a group. I appreciate that we have a forum for

free speech but.....

If you are overweight as a result of CFS/ME then that is a different

problem. We do not have the energy to maintain a balanced lifestyle

[Guest guest]

Rosie, I think I speak for many in the U.S. when I say I (we?) have no

idea whatsoever how much 7 1/2 stone (or one stone) is.

Rosie wrote:

>

>

>

> I'm coming in at the end of this discussion, and so don't want to

> inflame a

> thread which I haven't followed, but I have had ME since 1970 I am 47 and

> other than during pregnancy, have weighed pretty well 7 ½ stone throughout

> all my adult life since the age of about 19. This is despite being on some

> drugs (useless attempts at ameliorating the ME) such as very high HRT

> which

> inclines on to put on weight. I really personally see little correlation

> between ME and obesity. Even when I relapsed so badly that my physical

> effort was near zero, I adjusted how much I ate to take account of this.

>

> Just my 2 pennorth,

>

> Rosie

>

> I have to say I am more than a little bit irritated by the attempts to

> somehow politically join CFS and obesity and present some sort of

> consolidated front against the the slim and the healthy.

>

> I am also sick of hearing how fat people all have virus's, genetic

> problems

> or some other form of illness that makes them fat. How can anyone sane

> deny

> the link between overeating or eating badly and being overweight. One

> cannot

> justify this sort of garbage science. Being fat may in some case be a real

> problem with the thyroid or other organs but for most including MYSELF, it

> is over consumption. I got sick last week and lost weight, I got bells

> palsy

> a while back, could not eat properly and lost LOTs of weight. Over

> Christmas

> I indulged and put on a few pounds. That is who it works for billions of

> human beings, how can you deny this fundamental truth!!!

>

> Weight is not an issue of subtle biochemistry, it is the FUNDAMENTALS OF

> PHYSICS. You cannot get more energy out that you put in. You eat less and

> exercise so that you burn of more calories than you put in and you lose

> weight.

>

> Trying to link Obesity with ME/CFS is disingenuous and harms the

> creditability of the hundreds on this site who have a real and subtle

> illness which we can do nothing about yet strive everyday to help

> ourselves

> and each other. Letting people spout garbage science on our site destroys

> any credibility we have as a group. I appreciate that we have a forum for

> free speech but.....

>

> If you are overweight as a result of CFS/ME then that is a different

> problem. We do not have the energy to maintain a balanced lifestyle

>

>

[Guest guest]

LOL. Ok a stone is 14 lbs, so 7 ½ stone is 105 lbs. I’m not trying to be

awkward..just that having had this illness so long makes one think, not

least because the rest of my family is much larger than me..so if there were

any correlation then (from my individual perspective) I would have to say

that having ME stunted my growth / size, and that obesity / ME did not

impact one another in either direction of causality.

Rosie

Rosie, I think I speak for many in the U.S. when I say I (we?) have no

idea whatsoever how much 7 1/2 stone (or one stone) is.

Rosie wrote:

>

>

>

> I'm coming in at the end of this discussion, and so don't want to

> inflame a

> thread which I haven't followed, but I have had ME since 1970 I am 47 and

> other than during pregnancy, have weighed pretty well 7 ½ stone throughout

> all my adult life since the age of about 19. This is despite being on some

> drugs (useless attempts at ameliorating the ME) such as very high HRT

> which

> inclines on to put on weight. I really personally see little correlation

> between ME and obesity. Even when I relapsed so badly that my physical

> effort was near zero, I adjusted how much I ate to take account of this.

>

> Just my 2 pennorth,

>

> Rosie

>

> I have to say I am more than a little bit irritated by the attempts to

> somehow politically join CFS and obesity and present some sort of

> consolidated front against the the slim and the healthy.

>

> I am also sick of hearing how fat people all have virus's, genetic

> problems

> or some other form of illness that makes them fat. How can anyone sane

> deny

> the link between overeating or eating badly and being overweight. One

> cannot

> justify this sort of garbage science. Being fat may in some case be a real

> problem with the thyroid or other organs but for most including MYSELF, it

> is over consumption. I got sick last week and lost weight, I got bells

> palsy

> a while back, could not eat properly and lost LOTs of weight. Over

> Christmas

> I indulged and put on a few pounds. That is who it works for billions of

> human beings, how can you deny this fundamental truth!!!

>

> Weight is not an issue of subtle biochemistry, it is the FUNDAMENTALS OF

> PHYSICS. You cannot get more energy out that you put in. You eat less and

> exercise so that you burn of more calories than you put in and you lose

> weight.

>

> Trying to link Obesity with ME/CFS is disingenuous and harms the

> creditability of the hundreds on this site who have a real and subtle

> illness which we can do nothing about yet strive everyday to help

> ourselves

> and each other. Letting people spout garbage science on our site destroys

> any credibility we have as a group. I appreciate that we have a forum for

> free speech but.....

>

> If you are overweight as a result of CFS/ME then that is a different

> problem. We do not have the energy to maintain a balanced lifestyle

>

>

[Guest guest]

I have been diagnosed with CFS for more than 20 years, and during this

time, I have become acquainted with many other people with CFS. I have

noticed that CFS does often affect people's weight; however, from what I

have seen, many people gain weight but also many other people lose

weight. For example, I never had a weight problem in my life until I

became sick with CFS. Since then, I have struggled not to become

obese. I have a very good friend (we became friends after we each

became sick with CFS) who has lost a tremendous amount of weight. I

watch what I eat all the time. She eats all the time, hoping to gain a

little, celebrating if she gains two pounds, and she doesn't gain weight

because her body is not absorbing the nutrients. I do honestly believe

that something about this illness can affect the body's metabolism,

chemistry, etc. I have not seen any scientific studies on this, but I

have observed this often. As with everything about this illness, each

person is affected differently, but many are affected with differences

in metabolism--at least they have been among those whom I have observed.

Actually, during the course of my illness, I have gone through both

types of problems. At first I gained weight. Then, about ten years in,

I began to lose weight and continued to lose until everyone was telling

me I was way too thin. After several years, I changed again and I am

now back to having to watch my weight in order not to gain. And all of

this occurred while I was eating the same way.

There is no way that being fat caused me to get CFS because I was

slender and fit when I became ill. Nor did being too thin cause my

friend's CFS because she was a healthy weight when she became ill.

Rosie wrote:

>

>

>

> LOL. Ok a stone is 14 lbs, so 7 ½ stone is 105 lbs. I'm not trying to be

> awkward..just that having had this illness so long makes one think, not

> least because the rest of my family is much larger than me..so if

> there were

> any correlation then (from my individual perspective) I would have to say

> that having ME stunted my growth / size, and that obesity / ME did not

> impact one another in either direction of causality.

>

> Rosie

>

> Rosie, I think I speak for many in the U.S. when I say I (we?) have no

> idea whatsoever how much 7 1/2 stone (or one stone) is.

>

>

>

> Rosie wrote:

> >

> >

> >

> > I'm coming in at the end of this discussion, and so don't want to

> > inflame a

> > thread which I haven't followed, but I have had ME since 1970 I am

> 47 and

> > other than during pregnancy, have weighed pretty well 7 ½ stone

> throughout

> > all my adult life since the age of about 19. This is despite being

> on some

> > drugs (useless attempts at ameliorating the ME) such as very high HRT

> > which

> > inclines on to put on weight. I really personally see little correlation

> > between ME and obesity. Even when I relapsed so badly that my physical

> > effort was near zero, I adjusted how much I ate to take account of this.

> >

> > Just my 2 pennorth,

> >

> > Rosie

> >

> > I have to say I am more than a little bit irritated by the attempts to

> > somehow politically join CFS and obesity and present some sort of

> > consolidated front against the the slim and the healthy.

> >

> > I am also sick of hearing how fat people all have virus's, genetic

> > problems

> > or some other form of illness that makes them fat. How can anyone sane

> > deny

> > the link between overeating or eating badly and being overweight. One

> > cannot

> > justify this sort of garbage science. Being fat may in some case be

> a real

> > problem with the thyroid or other organs but for most including

> MYSELF, it

> > is over consumption. I got sick last week and lost weight, I got bells

> > palsy

> > a while back, could not eat properly and lost LOTs of weight. Over

> > Christmas

> > I indulged and put on a few pounds. That is who it works for billions of

> > human beings, how can you deny this fundamental truth!!!

> >

> > Weight is not an issue of subtle biochemistry, it is the FUNDAMENTALS OF

> > PHYSICS. You cannot get more energy out that you put in. You eat

> less and

> > exercise so that you burn of more calories than you put in and you lose

> > weight.

> >

> > Trying to link Obesity with ME/CFS is disingenuous and harms the

> > creditability of the hundreds on this site who have a real and subtle

> > illness which we can do nothing about yet strive everyday to help

> > ourselves

> > and each other. Letting people spout garbage science on our site

> destroys

> > any credibility we have as a group. I appreciate that we have a

> forum for

> > free speech but.....

> >

> > If you are overweight as a result of CFS/ME then that is a different

> > problem. We do not have the energy to maintain a balanced lifestyle

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

,

Bacterial infection can be implicated in CFS (see my previous posts on

the protocol I'm following) and recently, researchers took bacteria

from fat rats, injected them into thin rats, and the thin became fat!

I read this after watching a boston legal episode where denny crane

was saying " fat is contagious. " He is right, in a sense.

>

> I have been diagnosed with CFS for more than 20 years, and during this

> time, I have become acquainted with many other people with CFS. I have

> noticed that CFS does often affect people's weight; however, from

what I

> have seen, many people gain weight but also many other people lose

> weight. For example, I never had a weight problem in my life until

[Guest guest]

.. I do honestly believe

that something about this illness can affect the body's metabolism,

chemistry, etc. I have not seen any scientific studies on this, but I

have observed this often. As with everything about this illness, each

person is affected differently, but many are affected with differences

in metabolism--at least they have been among those whom I have observed.

that is exactly what happens. I spent almost 1k to have Metametrix ION panel

blood testing done and one thing it showed is I cannot burn fats or food and

turn it into any usable energy for my muscles to function on, it all turns

into weight gain. I was skinny when I got cfs and very active, over the

years the weight keeps piling on. I've had flu bugs where I literally threw

up and had diah. for 3 days taking in NO food and lost less than one pound.

My husb would have the same bug, get over it in one day and lose 3 lbs. I've

had cfs for 30 yrs. So just because someone can lose weight or control their

weight, doesn't mean that everyone else can and they are fat because they

overeat. This illness long term does all kinds to damage to so many body

systems, for someone to say my symtoms are legit but others are just fat

because they eat too much is ridiculous with this illness.

Marcia/Oregon

[Guest guest]

" Nil " <yildiz22@...> wrote:

>i am also trying to decide whether it was my

> adrenals or thyroids which came down first.

> bw

> Nil

I suspect a parallel process in many people.

Chicken and egg question.

Carol

[Guest guest]

Hi, and Nil.

Dr Cheney may still feel adrenal problems in CFS cause the thyroid

problem found and it makes some sense. The way this could happen,

with a more updated view since 1995, is Diastolic Heart dysfunction as

result of an " energy deficit " as Dr Cheney might say or a result of

" glutathione depletion from methylation cycle blocks " as Rich V might

say, eitherway, could demand greater adrenaline for the heart to

compensate for lower energy or low glutathione in the heart cells.

This would drive down overall energy or glutathione also needed by the

thyroid to function properly. Thyroid function with lower cellular

energy or low glutathione suffers, thus producing hypothyroidism.

It makes sense that someone could see it this way in CFS and Rich

reported that plenty of PWCs, one of which was me, resolved their

thyroid problem by improving their glutathione status.

<retractap@...> wrote:

>

> Hi Nil,

>

> I'm not sure why Dr. Cheney said adrenals caused the thyroid problem.

> That was in 1995, so his thought processes may have changed by now. I

> do know that he was very interested in my adrenal problems, doing

> several clinical tests. Of course, he also tested my thyroid. Like

> many of Dr. Cheney's patients, I recall him drawing a diagram with

> arrows showing me how my adrenal problem affected my thyroid, but I

> can't recall the diagram now.

>

>

>

> Nil wrote:

> >

> > hi pat

> >

> > some says thyroid problems cause adrenal problems in long term. i

> > wonder how dr cheney decided your adrenal problems caused your

thyroid

> > problems.

[Guest guest]

Hi, Nil.

I have zero adrenal problems, particularly regarding adrenaline

output, as far as I know. I did have borderline low cortisol output

last time I measured before improving my glutathione levels, so it is

possible I still have this. But I suspect to the degree I'm

successful in healing my remaining CFS symptoms, this too, if it still

exists, will normalize.

<yildiz22@...> wrote:

>

> Hi ,

>

> Thanks. Have you been able to solve your adrenal problems?

> bw

> Nil

>From: davidhall2020

>

>

> Hi, and Nil.

>

> Dr Cheney may still feel adrenal problems in CFS cause the thyroid

> problem found and it makes some sense.

[Guest guest]

Hi, Carol.

<cbwillis9@...> wrote:

>

> " Nil " <yildiz22@> wrote:

> >i am also trying to decide whether it was my

> > adrenals or thyroids which came down first.

> > bw

> > Nil

>

>

> I suspect a parallel process in many people.

> Chicken and egg question.

>

> Carol

>

***I say you're close, but consider this. It's a parallel process,

yes, but mediated by a common issue, which is neither the chicken nor

the egg.

***It's the incubator! The mediating incubator or environment of

healthy function for both the adrenals and thyroid, as well as the

hypothalamus too for that matter, is one of sufficient glutathione

levels and transport.

***Infection, toxins, trauma, genetics/insufficient precursors to

production or combinations of all these can bring glutathione status down.

***

[Guest guest]

" davidhall2020 " <david-hall@...> wrote:

>

> Hi, Carol.

>

> <cbwillis9@> wrote:

> >

> > " Nil " <yildiz22@> wrote:

> > >i am also trying to decide whether it was my

> > > adrenals or thyroids which came down first.

> > > bw

> > > Nil

> >

> >

> > I suspect a parallel process in many people.

> > Chicken and egg question.

> >

> > Carol

> ***I say you're close, but consider this.

> It's a parallel process,

> yes, but mediated by a common issue, which

> is neither the chicken nor

> the egg.

>

> ***It's the incubator! The mediating incubator or

> environment of

> healthy function for both the adrenals and thyroid,

> as well as the

> hypothalamus too for that matter, is one of

> sufficient glutathione levels and transport.

I agree it's a larger context of causation.

Any way you look at it, that trumps the question of

" thyroid first vs. adrenals first " that keeps people going

in circles for years trying to figure it out, and

in most cases the question is an unsolvable problem and

misdirector of attention.

For practical purposes, thyroid and adrenal issues

often tend to go together.

> ***Infection, toxins, trauma, genetics/insufficient

> precursors to

> production or combinations of all these can

> bring glutathione status down.

> ***

Yes, though I'm not as focused on glutathione per se

at the moment, and see it as part of a larger context in turn.

Carol

[Guest guest]

I think that some of the toxic things that cause chronic fatigue, like mold,

can also damage your leptin receptors in your brain which can cause some

people to suddenly put on weight and have major trouble losing it afterward

because their brain has been changed.

At least that is how I understand it. Its not the first thing that happens,

it happens after several other systems break down first.

Too tired right now to hunt this ref down but check out http://biotoxin.info

and

http://chronicneurotoxins.com

They do a lot of other things too, that is just one of them.