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Re: Study shows breastfeeding is healthier for mother and child

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>

> Not exactly news, but....

Yeah, I agree Sue, I gues it will be of interest to those people that

don't know about brf like new, pregnant women and their partners, like

my brother and sister in law.

Now, wouldn't it be good if they would do the same with vaccines, warn

people and tell them the truth?

>

> http://news.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=244892007

>

> Study shows breastfeeding is healthier for mother and child

> RHIANNON EDWARD

>

>

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This type of wisdom has been handed down in my family for generations.

Unfortunately, many people need to hear this way before it starts to make

sense...Anita

ingrid5317 <ingrid_schebesch@...> wrote:

>

> Not exactly news, but....

Yeah, I agree Sue, I gues it will be of interest to those people that

don't know about brf like new, pregnant women and their partners, like

my brother and sister in law.

Now, wouldn't it be good if they would do the same with vaccines, warn

people and tell them the truth?

>

> http://news.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=244892007

>

> Study shows breastfeeding is healthier for mother and child

> RHIANNON EDWARD

>

>

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Hello,

In my home we breast feed but we are running low on supply... cant

keep up with demand. My dd is 3 months old now. We are going to have

to add formula (or something else) to keep our little one fed.

So my question is what options for food exist? Should I just get

formula or is there like a home-made formula we can make for her? I'm

sure our ancestors had these supply and demand issues and did not have

formula... wonder what they did.

thanks

jose

>

> Not exactly news, but....

>

> http://news.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=244892007

>

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I would highly recommend the Weston Price Formula that uses raw milk.

Search for it on www.westonprice.org <http://www.westonprice.org/> .

C

_____

From: Vaccinations [mailto:Vaccinations ] On

Behalf Of jmartine_1026

Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 4:13 PM

Vaccinations

Subject: Re: Study shows breastfeeding is healthier for

mother and child

Hello,

In my home we breast feed but we are running low on supply... cant

keep up with demand. My dd is 3 months old now. We are going to have

to add formula (or something else) to keep our little one fed.

So my question is what options for food exist? Should I just get

formula or is there like a home-made formula we can make for her? I'm

sure our ancestors had these supply and demand issues and did not have

formula... wonder what they did.

thanks

jose

>

> Not exactly news, but....

>

> http://news. <http://news.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=244892007>

scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=244892007

>

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, why do you perceive your supply to be low? Are you feeding on demand

when your baby wishes? If breastfeeding has been going successfully up

until now, there is no reason why you should have to switch to formula.

There is no good age to transfer a baby to formula milk - none of them are

going to be anywhere near as good as breastmilk and both cows' milk formula

and soya formula - and gpats' and sheeps' or whaterver - have their own

potential risks.

If your nursing has been going well until now, there must be a reason why

your supply isn't meeting her demands (btw, three months is a huge growth

spurt time, and babies do demand a *lot* of milk at this time) and you would

be far better off finding out why than just making the switch.

There are several breastfeeding supporters/counsellors on this list that I

know of (I'm a former counsellor) so please don't give up yet - and

supplementing is not a lot better than giving up.

Mail me off-line if you wish.

Love, light and peace,

Sue

p.s. Breastfeeders historically would have used a surrogate wet nurse if

they really couldn't breastfeed, but *poor supply* is very much a modern

concept.

> Hello,

>

> In my home we breast feed but we are running low on supply... cant

> keep up with demand. My dd is 3 months old now. We are going to have

> to add formula (or something else) to keep our little one fed.

>

> So my question is what options for food exist? Should I just get

> formula or is there like a home-made formula we can make for her? I'm

> sure our ancestors had these supply and demand issues and did not have

> formula... wonder what they did.

>

> thanks

> jose

>

>

> >

> > Not exactly news, but....

> >

> > http://news.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=244892007

>>

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Hi ,

don't give up on brf, your baby is probably only going through her 3

months growth spurt and this explains the more frequent feeds.

Just feed her as often as she needs to feed and your supply will

adjust to her demand.

Any formula now at this critical age, even natural, will only make the

problem worse as she will stay full longer from the formula and be

less interested in your milk, which means less milk will be produced

and before you know it, she is weaned.

Please hang in there, I know it is hard going when they feed nearly

constantly, but it will pass and you will be so glad you did.

You are doing great, just keep going!!!

She will be so much healthier if you carry on and so will you!

You are right, our ancestors never ever had supply and demad problem

simply because there was nothing and nobody that interfered with brf.

These days it is so easy for mums to follow the wrong advice from

friends and relatives, but you really don't need any formula. It is

not what a human baby is designed to eat!

Look here for some extra info on this:

http://www.kellymom.com/bf/normal/growth-spurt.html

http://www.kellymom.com/nutrition/milk/infant-formula.html

Ingrid

> >

> > Not exactly news, but....

> >

> > http://news.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=244892007

> >

>

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>

> I would highly recommend the Weston Price Formula that uses raw milk.

> Search for it on www.westonprice.org <http://www.westonprice.org/> .

>

> I would really, really only give this as the very, very last resort.

Please, please don't get fooled into thinking that this is as good as

human milk. Most brf problems can be resolved with the right kind of

support and information, just like vaccination, inform yourself and

get the right kind of help.

A good brf support group is great for this, let me know if you need

contact details locally, I can help!

Ingrid

>

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YEs, Sue, I second that.

Ingrid

>

> , why do you perceive your supply to be low? Are you feeding on

demand

> when your baby wishes? If breastfeeding has been going successfully up

> until now, there is no reason why you should have to switch to formula.

> There is no good age to transfer a baby to formula milk - none of

them are

> going to be anywhere near as good as breastmilk and both cows' milk

formula

> and soya formula - and gpats' and sheeps' or whaterver - have their own

> potential risks.

>

> If your nursing has been going well until now, there must be a

reason why

> your supply isn't meeting her demands (btw, three months is a huge

growth

> spurt time, and babies do demand a *lot* of milk at this time) and

you would

> be far better off finding out why than just making the switch.

>

> There are several breastfeeding supporters/counsellors on this list

that I

> know of (I'm a former counsellor) so please don't give up yet - and

> supplementing is not a lot better than giving up.

> Mail me off-line if you wish.

>

> Love, light and peace,

>

> Sue

>

> p.s. Breastfeeders historically would have used a surrogate wet

nurse if

> they really couldn't breastfeed, but *poor supply* is very much a modern

> concept.

>

>

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The only real way to increase your supply is to nurse more often. If

it seems that your baby is not getting enough, try to nurse more or

pump. If you give formula, you will not be getting the message to

your body to produce more milk, so you will actually be making things

worse. So if at all possible, do not introduce formula or any other

breast substitute. Nurse or pump as much as possible till you get

your supply up. If you have further questions about this, there are

many knowledgeable people on this group that can help you. I am

sending you words of encouragement to help you through this.

Breastmilk is so very important and that is why we are all encouraging

you to not introduce anything besides breastmilk, it will change the

gut flora and your baby will not be quite as protected.

Tara

>

> Hi ,

> don't give up on brf, your baby is probably only going through her 3

> months growth spurt and this explains the more frequent feeds.

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Hi , you may very well not have the supply problem you think you

do, but if you start supplementing with formula, that can cause a real

supply problem, and begin the downhill slide that ends breastfeeding

way before you wanted to. Before you decide to supplement, I would

recommend finding a lactation consultant in your area who is an IBCLC

- search for one here:

http://gotwww.net/ilca/

A consultation with an IBCLC will cost something but it will be

cheaper than 9 months of formula ! Or at least contact a LLL leader -

search for one here:

http://www.lalecheleague.org/webindex.html

There are also many good for assistance with

breastfeeding where you can ask specific questions and get online help

and support from other moms, and LLL has an online forum as well.

Many mothers think they have a supply problem but really they do not -

their baby is just having a growth spurt, and it is perfectly normal

for a baby to want to nurse non-stop for many days in a row and seem

extra-hungry. This is nature's way of telling your body to kick the

milk supply up another notch so you can meet the demands for a larger

child. The best thing to do is to keep yourself well-fed and

well-hydrated, include some healthy fats and some oatmeal in your

diet, and nurse the baby as often and as long as she wants to.

Formula is artificial, expensive, and nowhere close to being a

replacement for breastmilk.

B.

>

> Hello,

>

> In my home we breast feed but we are running low on supply... cant

> keep up with demand. My dd is 3 months old now. We are going to have

> to add formula (or something else) to keep our little one fed.

>

> So my question is what options for food exist? Should I just get

> formula or is there like a home-made formula we can make for her? I'm

> sure our ancestors had these supply and demand issues and did not have

> formula... wonder what they did.

>

> thanks

> jose

>

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I second EVERYONES words of encouragement here to only bf!!!!!!! I learned

the HARD way and regret ever giving my dd a bottle of formula. When my dd

was just 4 mo old I started to give her 1 bottle a day cuz I " felt " like she

wasn't getting enough BM. That 1 bottle turned to 2 and then to 3 and before

I knew it, I was dried up! I was soo sad about that happening. I never knew

that bf is a supply/demand thing. I was so desperate to re-astablish my

supply so that I could continue bf my dd. I did alot of research and learned

so much about it and if you have supply issues, then there are herbs you can

take to help!!!! I bought a double medela breast pump and I was only able to

get 1/4 oz ever couple hours!!! So I ordered this lactation tea that has

alfalfa and fenugreek and a bunch of other stuff and after drinking my first

cup of it, I have full breast's within an hour! I was soo excited!! In the

end, I made more work for me but at least I learned and hope to do better

next time! Alana is 8mo now and we are just about back to only nursing. I

have to buy a sns supplementor to use so that dd gets a constant flow. And

another thing, your baby will get used to the fast flow of a bottle and will

refuse your breast when nothing comes out! Do your BEST to avoid bottles! It

was my worst mistake ever!!!! :(

>From: " Tara Maue " <orrin_reilly@...>

>Reply-Vaccinations

>Vaccinations

>Subject: Re: Study shows breastfeeding is healthier for

>mother and child

>Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 19:15:20 -0000

>

>The only real way to increase your supply is to nurse more often. If

>it seems that your baby is not getting enough, try to nurse more or

>pump. If you give formula, you will not be getting the message to

>your body to produce more milk, so you will actually be making things

>worse. So if at all possible, do not introduce formula or any other

>breast substitute. Nurse or pump as much as possible till you get

>your supply up. If you have further questions about this, there are

>many knowledgeable people on this group that can help you. I am

>sending you words of encouragement to help you through this.

>

>Breastmilk is so very important and that is why we are all encouraging

>you to not introduce anything besides breastmilk, it will change the

>gut flora and your baby will not be quite as protected.

>

>Tara

>

>

> >

> > Hi ,

> > don't give up on brf, your baby is probably only going through her 3

> > months growth spurt and this explains the more frequent feeds.

>

>

_________________________________________________________________

Find what you need at prices you’ll love. Compare products and save at MSN®

Shopping.

http://shopping.msn.com/default/shp/?ptnrid=37,ptnrdata=24102 & tcode=T001MSN20A07\

01

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One more thing.. I have heard that a GREAT way to build your supply is to

take baby to bed with you for a couple days and just let baby nurse, nurse,

nurse..all through the night too!! The best thing to do is read as much as

you can on the topic. Just google " low breastmilk supply " . You will find

some great info on the topic! And you can do it without giving formula! :)

Sorry for the goofs, I'm in a hurry! :D

>From: " wright " <melissa-wright@...>

>Reply-Vaccinations

>Vaccinations

>Subject: RE: Re: Study shows breastfeeding is healthier for

>mother and child

>Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 17:50:25 -0800

>

>I second EVERYONES words of encouragement here to only bf!!!!!!! I learned

>the HARD way and regret ever giving my dd a bottle of formula. When my dd

>was just 4 mo old I started to give her 1 bottle a day cuz I " felt " like

>she

>wasn't getting enough BM. That 1 bottle turned to 2 and then to 3 and

>before

>I knew it, I was dried up! I was soo sad about that happening. I never knew

>that bf is a supply/demand thing. I was so desperate to re-astablish my

>supply so that I could continue bf my dd. I did alot of research and

>learned

>so much about it and if you have supply issues, then there are herbs you

>can

>take to help!!!! I bought a double medela breast pump and I was only able

>to

>get 1/4 oz ever couple hours!!! So I ordered this lactation tea that has

>alfalfa and fenugreek and a bunch of other stuff and after drinking my

>first

>cup of it, I have full breast's within an hour! I was soo excited!! In the

>end, I made more work for me but at least I learned and hope to do better

>next time! Alana is 8mo now and we are just about back to only nursing. I

>have to buy a sns supplementor to use so that dd gets a constant flow. And

>another thing, your baby will get used to the fast flow of a bottle and

>will

>refuse your breast when nothing comes out! Do your BEST to avoid bottles!

>It

>was my worst mistake ever!!!! :(

>

>

> >From: " Tara Maue " <orrin_reilly@...>

> >Reply-Vaccinations

> >Vaccinations

> >Subject: Re: Study shows breastfeeding is healthier for

> >mother and child

> >Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 19:15:20 -0000

> >

> >The only real way to increase your supply is to nurse more often. If

> >it seems that your baby is not getting enough, try to nurse more or

> >pump. If you give formula, you will not be getting the message to

> >your body to produce more milk, so you will actually be making things

> >worse. So if at all possible, do not introduce formula or any other

> >breast substitute. Nurse or pump as much as possible till you get

> >your supply up. If you have further questions about this, there are

> >many knowledgeable people on this group that can help you. I am

> >sending you words of encouragement to help you through this.

> >

> >Breastmilk is so very important and that is why we are all encouraging

> >you to not introduce anything besides breastmilk, it will change the

> >gut flora and your baby will not be quite as protected.

> >

> >Tara

> >

> >

> > >

> > > Hi ,

> > > don't give up on brf, your baby is probably only going through her 3

> > > months growth spurt and this explains the more frequent feeds.

> >

> >

>

>_________________________________________________________________

>Find what you need at prices you’ll love. Compare products and save at MSN®

>Shopping.

>http://shopping.msn.com/default/shp/?ptnrid=37,ptnrdata=24102 & tcode=T001MSN20A0\

701

>

>

>

>

>

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Ingrid,

Where have you been? I've needed you! You're not going to believe what

my pediatrician told me at my son's sort-of 9-month visit. She's got a

problem with him still being under on the charts, even though he was a

PREEMIE (5 weeks early), and she hasn't had a problem with it thus far.

She even acknowledged that many babies' weight dips a bit at this time

relative to height because they are becoming much more active. But here

she was, telling me that breastmilk wasn't meant to meet his

nutritional needs at his age (his adjusted age is actually 10-almost-11

months), and that he should be getting most of his calories and

nutrition from solids. She told me to make sure I feed him solids

3x/day (we were doing 2x/day), and to cut back to nursing 3x during the

day (she didn't care about night nursing). I've considered her a very

good and laid-back ped thus far (she doesn't fuss about us not

vaccinating, either... at least, not yet). But the more I think about

it, the angrier I get.

She also took a blood test and said he was slightly anemic. She wants

to put him on an iron supplement and see him in a month. We had the

Vitamin-K-like discussion about how wouldn't it be normal for babies at

this stage to be slightly anemic since all babies go through the

transition to solids and we've done just fine for thousands of years

without iron supplements. Sadly, I don't remember her response, except

that she sort of agreed but wanted to do the supplement anyway.

The whole visit angered me. She gave me a hard time about being " late "

for his 9-month visit, which annoyed me, because, as I understand it,

the well-baby visits are scheduled based on vaccination schedule, and

she knows we're not vaccinating. Maybe she was just having a bad day

and taking it out on me, but I really felt she was questioning me about

things she'd never had a problem with before. It gave me a weird

feeling.

So, anyway, what are your thoughts? Is there any harm in doing the iron

supplement? The only reason I'm willing to do it is I understand that

babies build up their iron stores in the womb, and, since he was 5

weeks early, he didn't have time to built up as much. Also, as I've

discussed before, his immune system isn't super duper, and maybe a

lower iron level could be causing that? And he's a month or so slower

than other babies his (adjusted) age at hitting his gross motor skill

milestones, but so what?

Thanks, Angie

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Everyone thank you for the wonderful feedback. I have a couple of

links to read through now. Here is a little background info on our

situation.

We been pumping since just about birth. We feed her from the bottle.

The extra milk gets stored. Over the last 2 - 3 weeks our stored

supplied has been dwindling. We used to have 2 days worth of extra

milk. Now we don't have enough to keep up with her needs... meaning

our pumping is not keeping up with her demand. Only now we are

starting to contemplate nursing directly, versus pumping. My gf is

pumping every 1 - 2 hours while she is home and awake. When she is

working (9-5) she only pumps 3 times. We do not want to do formula

and not pump... we are in fact pumping more now that we find ourselves

having to do formula. The dd has been drinking the same amount of

milk over this time period.

My gf just bought fenugreek yesterday (going to look into the

lactation tea). I don't think she likes cow milk, since my gf stopped

dairy our dd's gas problems went away.

I actually wanted to make some home made vegtable juice with different

veggies for my dd, but my concern with this is digestion and not

enough protein and carbs. I know that hundreds of years ago when BM

was low, they did not turn to formula. Does anyone know what people

did back then???

thanks

jose

> > >

> > > Not exactly news, but....

> > >

> > > http://news.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=244892007

> > >

> >

>

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Well done, Tara. The right kind of support and info is crucial.

Ingrid

>

> The only real way to increase your supply is to nurse more often. If

> it seems that your baby is not getting enough, try to nurse more or

> pump. If you give formula, you will not be getting the message to

> your body to produce more milk, so you will actually be making things

> worse. So if at all possible, do not introduce formula or any other

> breast substitute. Nurse or pump as much as possible till you get

> your supply up. If you have further questions about this, there are

> many knowledgeable people on this group that can help you. I am

> sending you words of encouragement to help you through this.

>

> Breastmilk is so very important and that is why we are all encouraging

> you to not introduce anything besides breastmilk, it will change the

> gut flora and your baby will not be quite as protected.

>

> Tara

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Hi ,

well done for learning about brf, it is so important. Mums need to

support each other in this. It is absolutely true that one bottle can

ruin brf, so you did very well to get back to excl. brf.

Keep up the great work!

Ingrid

>

> I second EVERYONES words of encouragement here to only bf!!!!!!!

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, I'm sorry for being both nosey and ignorant here, but is there some

special reason why your babe wasn't fed at the breast from birth? If you've

been relying on pumping for exclusive breastfeeding then I'm not as

surprised that supply is dwindling. It is by no means impossible to

maintain supply by pumping alone, even when you have to be at work, but it

is challenging, to say the least. You feel as though you're attached to

the pump! By all means look at the fenugreek - it does work wonders for

some mums - but if your baby can be fed at the breast for the times that

your gf isn't working, it will boost supply no end. Perhaps consider

co-sleeping if you are not already, so that your daughter has easy access to

milk all night without too much disturbance for your gf, and offer the

breast at every available opportunity, as stimulation by the baby is far

superior for milk production than pumping alone. Many babies whose mums

return to work at an early stage do fine with three pumpings a day where

other feeds are at the breast - they almost seem to adjust themselves to

compensate for the fact that mum is not there.

If you can see a lactation consultant, that'd be great, but do try and get

your gf to feed directly at the breast if at all possible, and I think she

will find her supply improved. Do bear in mind what so many of us have said

about a growth spurt at this age too. Her demand may settle down a bit

soon.

HTH.

Love, light and peac,e

Sue

>

>

> Everyone thank you for the wonderful feedback. I have a couple of

> links to read through now. Here is a little background info on our

> situation.

>

> We been pumping since just about birth. We feed her from the bottle.

> The extra milk gets stored. Over the last 2 - 3 weeks our stored

> supplied has been dwindling. We used to have 2 days worth of extra

> milk. Now we don't have enough to keep up with her needs... meaning

> our pumping is not keeping up with her demand. Only now we are

> starting to contemplate nursing directly, versus pumping. My gf is

> pumping every 1 - 2 hours while she is home and awake. When she is

> working (9-5) she only pumps 3 times. We do not want to do formula

> and not pump... we are in fact pumping more now that we find ourselves

> having to do formula. The dd has been drinking the same amount of

> milk over this time period.

>

> My gf just bought fenugreek yesterday (going to look into the

> lactation tea). I don't think she likes cow milk, since my gf stopped

> dairy our dd's gas problems went away.

>

> I actually wanted to make some home made vegtable juice with different

> veggies for my dd, but my concern with this is digestion and not

> enough protein and carbs. I know that hundreds of years ago when BM

> was low, they did not turn to formula. Does anyone know what people

> did back then???

>

> thanks

> jose

>

>

>

>

>

> > > >

> > > > Not exactly news, but....

> > > >

> > > > http://news.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=244892007

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

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Hi ,

I see that Sue has already given you some excellent wonderful advice.

I just wanted to answer your 2 questions at the end there.

In those days before formula (oh, how I wish they would come back and

formula will be reserved for only those extremely rare cases when a

mum can't brf), all babies/children were brf for many years, the

average was about 4 1/2 years or even longer. They started solids

aroung about 6 months, when naturally a baby is ready for solids, as

they start growing teeth, an indication that they can start th chew.

They also start to sit up, hold pieces of food in their hands and the

gagging reflex goes away. But every baby is different and many babies

are not ready for solids even after 6 months and breastmilk alone can

fullfill all their nutritional needs for about a year.

So, back then there was no pumps or bottles or feeding schedules or

cribs or any other separation between mother and baby. Instead they

had slings/cloths for their babies to carry them around and the baby

was thus able to go to the breast whenever she wanted.This is how brf

is designed to work, with baby directing and guiding the demand, not a

clock or a calendar. Babies have not read any of the parenting books

or can't read a calendar or a clock, all they know is that they need

frequent access to food ( the baby's brain and body grow extremely

fast during the first year and need lots of milk for this), sleep and

cuddles which they all get if close to mum.

Nature has designed us humans as contact species, not non contact

species, it is only adults that think babies need to become

independent and separate before they are ready.

Breastfeeding is supposed to fit in harmoniously with this nurturing

process and a mother's instinct, if not squashed by well meaning

friends and relatives, will always keep her right.

Try and use some of the suggestions Sue and others gave you, and

hopefully you can go back to excl. brf.from the breast.

Here is the LLL website for local LLL contacts for your area for

support groups and help:

http://www.lalecheleague.org/WebUS.html

All the best,

Ingrid

>

> , I'm sorry for being both nosey and ignorant here, but is there

some

> special reason why your babe wasn't fed at the breast from birth?

If you've

> been relying on pumping for exclusive breastfeeding then I'm not as

> surprised that supply is dwindling. It is by no means impossible to

> maintain supply by pumping alone, even when you have to be at work,

but it

> is challenging, to say the least. You feel as though you're

attached to

> the pump!

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Hi Angie,

I will reply to this of list as it would be a bit too OT with all I

have got to say for this particular case.

Ingrid

>

> Ingrid,

>

> Where have you been? I've needed you! You're not going to believe what

> my pediatrician told me at my son's sort-of 9-month visit. She's got a

> problem with him still being under on the charts, even though he was a

> PREEMIE (5 weeks early), and she hasn't had a problem with it thus far.

> She even acknowledged that many babies' weight dips a bit at this time

> relative to height because they are becoming much more active. But here

> she was, telling me that breastmilk wasn't meant to meet his

> nutritional needs at his age (his adjusted age is actually 10-almost-11

> months), and that he should be getting most of his calories and

> nutrition from solids. She told me to make sure I feed him solids

> 3x/day (we were doing 2x/day), and to cut back to nursing 3x during the

> day (she didn't care about night nursing). I've considered her a very

> good and laid-back ped thus far (she doesn't fuss about us not

> vaccinating, either... at least, not yet). But the more I think about

> it, the angrier I get.

>

> She also took a blood test and said he was slightly anemic. She wants

> to put him on an iron supplement and see him in a month. We had the

> Vitamin-K-like discussion about how wouldn't it be normal for babies at

> this stage to be slightly anemic since all babies go through the

> transition to solids and we've done just fine for thousands of years

> without iron supplements. Sadly, I don't remember her response, except

> that she sort of agreed but wanted to do the supplement anyway.

>

> The whole visit angered me. She gave me a hard time about being " late "

> for his 9-month visit, which annoyed me, because, as I understand it,

> the well-baby visits are scheduled based on vaccination schedule, and

> she knows we're not vaccinating. Maybe she was just having a bad day

> and taking it out on me, but I really felt she was questioning me about

> things she'd never had a problem with before. It gave me a weird

> feeling.

>

> So, anyway, what are your thoughts? Is there any harm in doing the iron

> supplement? The only reason I'm willing to do it is I understand that

> babies build up their iron stores in the womb, and, since he was 5

> weeks early, he didn't have time to built up as much. Also, as I've

> discussed before, his immune system isn't super duper, and maybe a

> lower iron level could be causing that? And he's a month or so slower

> than other babies his (adjusted) age at hitting his gross motor skill

> milestones, but so what?

>

> Thanks, Angie

>

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Hi Angie,

I will reply to this of list as it would be a bit too OT with all I

have got to say for this particular case.

Ingrid

>

> Ingrid,

>

> Where have you been? I've needed you! You're not going to believe what

> my pediatrician told me at my son's sort-of 9-month visit. She's got a

> problem with him still being under on the charts, even though he was a

> PREEMIE (5 weeks early), and she hasn't had a problem with it thus far.

> She even acknowledged that many babies' weight dips a bit at this time

> relative to height because they are becoming much more active. But here

> she was, telling me that breastmilk wasn't meant to meet his

> nutritional needs at his age (his adjusted age is actually 10-almost-11

> months), and that he should be getting most of his calories and

> nutrition from solids. She told me to make sure I feed him solids

> 3x/day (we were doing 2x/day), and to cut back to nursing 3x during the

> day (she didn't care about night nursing). I've considered her a very

> good and laid-back ped thus far (she doesn't fuss about us not

> vaccinating, either... at least, not yet). But the more I think about

> it, the angrier I get.

>

> She also took a blood test and said he was slightly anemic. She wants

> to put him on an iron supplement and see him in a month. We had the

> Vitamin-K-like discussion about how wouldn't it be normal for babies at

> this stage to be slightly anemic since all babies go through the

> transition to solids and we've done just fine for thousands of years

> without iron supplements. Sadly, I don't remember her response, except

> that she sort of agreed but wanted to do the supplement anyway.

>

> The whole visit angered me. She gave me a hard time about being " late "

> for his 9-month visit, which annoyed me, because, as I understand it,

> the well-baby visits are scheduled based on vaccination schedule, and

> she knows we're not vaccinating. Maybe she was just having a bad day

> and taking it out on me, but I really felt she was questioning me about

> things she'd never had a problem with before. It gave me a weird

> feeling.

>

> So, anyway, what are your thoughts? Is there any harm in doing the iron

> supplement? The only reason I'm willing to do it is I understand that

> babies build up their iron stores in the womb, and, since he was 5

> weeks early, he didn't have time to built up as much. Also, as I've

> discussed before, his immune system isn't super duper, and maybe a

> lower iron level could be causing that? And he's a month or so slower

> than other babies his (adjusted) age at hitting his gross motor skill

> milestones, but so what?

>

> Thanks, Angie

>

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Oh Angie, I hope you let her have an earful. You just keep doing what you're

doing!! Ingrid, I'm sure some of us would like to hear your advice. Maybe move

it over to OT group?

Thanks,

Sheri B.

ingrid5317 <ingrid_schebesch@...> wrote:

Hi Angie,

I will reply to this of list as it would be a bit too OT with all I

have got to say for this particular case.

Ingrid

>

> Ingrid,

>

> Where have you been? I've needed you! You're not going to believe what

> my pediatrician told me at my son's sort-of 9-month visit. She's got a

> problem with him still being under on the charts, even though he was a

> PREEMIE (5 weeks early), and she hasn't had a problem with it thus far.

> She even acknowledged that many babies' weight dips a bit at this time

> relative to height because they are becoming much more active. But here

> she was, telling me that breastmilk wasn't meant to meet his

> nutritional needs at his age (his adjusted age is actually 10-almost-11

> months), and that he should be getting most of his calories and

> nutrition from solids. She told me to make sure I feed him solids

> 3x/day (we were doing 2x/day), and to cut back to nursing 3x during the

> day (she didn't care about night nursing). I've considered her a very

> good and laid-back ped thus far (she doesn't fuss about us not

> vaccinating, either... at least, not yet). But the more I think about

> it, the angrier I get.

>

> She also took a blood test and said he was slightly anemic. She wants

> to put him on an iron supplement and see him in a month. We had the

> Vitamin-K-like discussion about how wouldn't it be normal for babies at

> this stage to be slightly anemic since all babies go through the

> transition to solids and we've done just fine for thousands of years

> without iron supplements. Sadly, I don't remember her response, except

> that she sort of agreed but wanted to do the supplement anyway.

>

> The whole visit angered me. She gave me a hard time about being " late "

> for his 9-month visit, which annoyed me, because, as I understand it,

> the well-baby visits are scheduled based on vaccination schedule, and

> she knows we're not vaccinating. Maybe she was just having a bad day

> and taking it out on me, but I really felt she was questioning me about

> things she'd never had a problem with before. It gave me a weird

> feeling.

>

> So, anyway, what are your thoughts? Is there any harm in doing the iron

> supplement? The only reason I'm willing to do it is I understand that

> babies build up their iron stores in the womb, and, since he was 5

> weeks early, he didn't have time to built up as much. Also, as I've

> discussed before, his immune system isn't super duper, and maybe a

> lower iron level could be causing that? And he's a month or so slower

> than other babies his (adjusted) age at hitting his gross motor skill

> milestones, but so what?

>

> Thanks, Angie

>

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Brilliant, Ingrid. I agree 1000% -Angie

On Saturday, February 17, 2007, at 11:47 AM, ingrid5317 wrote:

> Hi ,

> I see that Sue has already given you some excellent wonderful advice.

> I just wanted to answer your 2 questions at the end there.

> In those days before formula (oh, how I wish they would come back and

> formula will be reserved for only those extremely rare cases when a

> mum can't brf), all babies/children were brf for many years, the

> average was about 4 1/2 years or even longer. They started solids

> aroung about 6 months, when naturally a baby is ready for solids, as

> they start growing teeth, an indication that they can start th chew.

> They also start to sit up, hold pieces of food in their hands and the

> gagging reflex goes away. But every baby is different and many babies

> are not ready for solids even after 6 months and breastmilk alone can

> fullfill all their nutritional needs for about a year.

> So, back then there was no pumps or bottles or feeding schedules or

> cribs or any other separation between mother and baby. Instead they

> had slings/cloths for their babies to carry them around and the baby

> was thus able to go to the breast whenever she wanted.This is how brf

> is designed to work, with baby directing and guiding the demand, not a

> clock or a calendar. Babies have not read any of the parenting books

> or can't read a calendar or a clock, all they know is that they need

> frequent access to food ( the baby's brain and body grow extremely

> fast during the first year and need lots of milk for this), sleep and

> cuddles which they all get if close to mum.

> Nature has designed us humans as contact species, not non contact

> species, it is only adults that think babies need to become

> independent and separate before they are ready.

> Breastfeeding is supposed to fit in harmoniously with this nurturing

> process and a mother's instinct, if not squashed by well meaning

> friends and relatives, will always keep her right.

>

> Try and use some of the suggestions Sue and others gave you, and

> hopefully you can go back to excl. brf.from the breast.

> Here is the LLL website for local LLL contacts for your area for

> support groups and help:

> http://www.lalecheleague.org/WebUS.html

> All the best,

> Ingrid

>

>

> >

> > , I'm sorry for being both nosey and ignorant here, but is there

> some

> > special reason why your babe wasn't fed at the breast from birth?

> If you've

> > been relying on pumping for exclusive breastfeeding then I'm not as

> > surprised that supply is dwindling. It is by no means impossible to

> > maintain supply by pumping alone, even when you have to be at work,

> but it

> > is challenging, to say the least. You feel as though you're

> attached to

> > the pump!

>

>

**********

" At that point, I had the right to remain silent... but I didn't have

the ability. " -Ron White

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Thanks! You know how I talk tough, and then in the clinch I always

doubt myself and then later get mad that I didn't speak up at the

moment. I'm saving the earful for next visit.

Did I mention that part of that is paranoia on my part (insert hearty

laugh from Anita here) about skipping the vaccinations. I feel like,

since I'm not doing those, that I've got to toe the line in other

areas, or maybe she's going to keep a record of me as a negligent

parent that could come back to bite me someday. Those stories printed

about cps chill me to the bone. -Angie

On Saturday, February 17, 2007, at 12:47 PM, Sheri B. wrote:

> Oh Angie, I hope you let her have an earful. You just keep doing what

> you're doing!! Ingrid, I'm sure some of us would like to hear your

> advice. Maybe move it over to OT group?

> Thanks,

> Sheri B.

>

> ingrid5317 <ingrid_schebesch@...> wrote:

> Hi Angie,

> I will reply to this of list as it would be a bit too OT with all I

> have got to say for this particular case.

> Ingrid

>

>

> >

> > Ingrid,

> >

> > Where have you been? I've needed you! You're not going to believe

> what

> > my pediatrician told me at my son's sort-of 9-month visit. She's got

> a

> > problem with him still being under on the charts, even though he was

> a

> > PREEMIE (5 weeks early), and she hasn't had a problem with it thus

> far.

> > She even acknowledged that many babies' weight dips a bit at this

> time

> > relative to height because they are becoming much more active. But

> here

> > she was, telling me that breastmilk wasn't meant to meet his

> > nutritional needs at his age (his adjusted age is actually

> 10-almost-11

> > months), and that he should be getting most of his calories and

> > nutrition from solids. She told me to make sure I feed him solids

> > 3x/day (we were doing 2x/day), and to cut back to nursing 3x during

> the

> > day (she didn't care about night nursing). I've considered her a very

> > good and laid-back ped thus far (she doesn't fuss about us not

> > vaccinating, either... at least, not yet). But the more I think about

> > it, the angrier I get.

> >

> > She also took a blood test and said he was slightly anemic. She wants

> > to put him on an iron supplement and see him in a month. We had the

> > Vitamin-K-like discussion about how wouldn't it be normal for babies

> at

> > this stage to be slightly anemic since all babies go through the

> > transition to solids and we've done just fine for thousands of years

> > without iron supplements. Sadly, I don't remember her response,

> except

> > that she sort of agreed but wanted to do the supplement anyway.

> >

> > The whole visit angered me. She gave me a hard time about being

> " late "

> > for his 9-month visit, which annoyed me, because, as I understand it,

> > the well-baby visits are scheduled based on vaccination schedule, and

> > she knows we're not vaccinating. Maybe she was just having a bad day

> > and taking it out on me, but I really felt she was questioning me

> about

> > things she'd never had a problem with before. It gave me a weird

> > feeling.

> >

> > So, anyway, what are your thoughts? Is there any harm in doing the

> iron

> > supplement? The only reason I'm willing to do it is I understand that

> > babies build up their iron stores in the womb, and, since he was 5

> > weeks early, he didn't have time to built up as much. Also, as I've

> > discussed before, his immune system isn't super duper, and maybe a

> > lower iron level could be causing that? And he's a month or so slower

> > than other babies his (adjusted) age at hitting his gross motor skill

> > milestones, but so what?

> >

> > Thanks, Angie

> >

>

>

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>

> Oh Angie, I hope you let her have an earful. You just keep doing

what you're doing!! Ingrid, I'm sure some of us would like to hear

your advice. Maybe move it over to OT group?

> Thanks,

> Sheri B.

Hi Sheri and others, I have just joined the OT4VAX list and am waiting

for approval.

Anyway, just quickly to let everyone know what I would do in this kind

of situation:

I would check my baby's level of allertness, her skin tone, her

general wellbeing and development.

If they are all satisfactory, then I would also check the colour under

her lower eyelids. If this is nice and pink, not pale, than the iron

should be fine.

We do have to be careful with iron but many iron tests are not

accurate and you could get a different reading the next time one is done.

I would also give extra iron rich foods with extra vit c, like

molasses, live, red meat, dark green leafy veg. The vit c will help

the body absorb the iron. Breastmilk is low in iron but it is much

better absorbed than the iron in formula. The reason for low iron in

breastmilk is to help prevent infection from dangerous pathogens in

the digestive system, who love iron. So, you see, nature is clever and

more iron is not necessarily better.

For those that are interested, here is more information:

http://www.kellymom.com/nutrition/vitamins/iron.html

Ingrid

>

>

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