Re: compounded T3 and side effects

[Guest guest]

So, do you suggest I stay on it to see if the symptoms alleviate?

Why do you suggest those adrenal support supps would be harmful; in what way?

In a message dated 08/13/07 11:27:52 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

retractap@... writes:

It sounds to me like you are having what is usually referred to as a thyroid

" dump. " When thyroid hormone builds in the bloodstream because a person has

not had the necessary cortisol to get it into the tissues for use, and then

the cortisol suddenly becomes available, the thyroid goes into the tissues all

at once, and the person experiences a feeling of being hyperthyroid. Most

likely you have had T4 building in your blood which has not been converted to

T3. T4 is the storage hormone and T3 is the active form of the hormone. If

your body has not been converting and you suddenly add in lots of available

direct T3, then you could feel hyperthyroid for a short amount of time. This

won't last long because T3 only lasts for a few hours in the body.

You are really playing with fire taking all those supplements (licorice,

Seriphos, adrenal cortex/raw adrenal) without knowing what you are doing

because

you can do yourself even more harm.

If you cannot find a good doctor who understands this, then you should learn

this for yourself. Try www.stopthethyroidmIf you cann

************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at

http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

[Guest guest]

It sounds to me like you are having what is usually referred to as a thyroid

" dump. " When thyroid hormone builds in the bloodstream because a person has not

had the necessary cortisol to get it into the tissues for use, and then the

cortisol suddenly becomes available, the thyroid goes into the tissues all at

once, and the person experiences a feeling of being hyperthyroid. Most likely

you have had T4 building in your blood which has not been converted to T3. T4

is the storage hormone and T3 is the active form of the hormone. If your body

has not been converting and you suddenly add in lots of available direct T3,

then you could feel hyperthyroid for a short amount of time. This won't last

long because T3 only lasts for a few hours in the body.

You are really playing with fire taking all those supplements (licorice,

Seriphos, adrenal cortex/raw adrenal) without knowing what you are doing because

you can do yourself even more harm.

If you cannot find a good doctor who understands this, then you should learn

this for yourself. Try www.stopthethyroidmadness.com

compounded T3 and side effects

I see that some of you you've had experience with using T3. Just started

some sustained release yesterday @ 10mcg per day. The doc thought my T4 @ 10.3

was slightly high in relation to my T3 @304. Historically, my TSH has hovered

between a low of 2.4 and a high of 4.0 for the last several years. I haven't

found anything that works to bring it down to 2.0 or less. Now, on only my

2nd day of T3, and bang, I'm getting what feels like hyperthyroid symptoms

(pressure headache, hyper, anxious, talkative, sweaty, tight feeling around

throat). I tried Armour & Biothyroid and years back and couldn't stay on them

after a few days either (similar symptoms, but took longer). I am taking

adrenal

support supplements (licorice, Seriphos, adrenal cortex/raw adrenal).

Of particular interest is that these are the exact same symptoms (minus the

headache) when I take an extra dose of adrenal glandular or whenever I take

anything type of vitamin B complex orally (strangely, injecting B-complex does

not produce symptoms). I have never been able to figure this out

definitively. I would guess it must have something to do with adrenal issues;

perhaps

something more complex like HPA axis involvement. I have heard that when your

adrenals are not functioning properly, you have a hard time tolerating thyroid

meds.

************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at

http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 08/13/07 3:09:59 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

retractap@... writes:

It is always risky to take any hormone supplement without knowing whether or

not you need it. With the thyroid this is impossible to know unless you test

Free T3 and Free T4 because the symptoms of low thyroid can be the same as

high thyroid. Have you tested your thyroid levels?

My latest tests I listed in my last post. [The doc thought my T4 @ 10.3 was

slightly high in relation to my T3 @304. Historically, my TSH has hovered

between a low of 2.4 and a high of 4.0 for the last several years].

************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at

http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 08/13/07 3:09:59 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

retractap@... writes:

Some of the supplements you mention MAY contain cortisol (adrenal hormone).

If all they contain is vitamins or minerals to encourage your own adrenals,

they are probably safe.

Seriphos is all minerals; licorice raises cortisol (but I don't take it

daily); the adrenal gladulars could have trace amounts of cortisol.

************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at

http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

[Guest guest]

Thyroid and adrenal issues can be closely related.

An increase in thyroid med will usually produce some transient

hyper symptoms for 3-4 days. If they go on longer than 7 days,

the dose/med increase is likely too high, so back it down and

increase to optimal more gradually. T3 stays in the system for

about 1 day so not sure why you'd need a time release (which

normally should not be cut in half since the coatings are what

contribute to it being time released). Plain Cytomel at 5 mcg

as a next step (vs 10 mcg), then go to 10 mcg in a month or 2,

might have worked better. Or Armour thyroid which is a natural

T4/T3 med by Rx only, preferred by many thyroid patients today.

I'm not keen on the adrenal supps you mention, and far prefer

Vit C, B-50 complex, some extra pantothenic acid for short

periods, and TCM herbals [ref: see my article on deep integrative

nutritional Adrenal support, url below]

Carol

willis_protocols

article archive in Files. (non-commercial, not a discussion group)

nutrimedent@... wrote:

>

>

> I see that some of you you've had experience with using T3. Just

started

> some sustained release yesterday @ 10mcg per day. The doc thought

my T4 @ 10.3

> was slightly high in relation to my T3 @304. Historically, my TSH

has hovered

> between a low of 2.4 and a high of 4.0 for the last several years.

I haven't

> found anything that works to bring it down to 2.0 or less. Now, on

only my

> 2nd day of T3, and bang, I'm getting what feels like hyperthyroid

symptoms

> (pressure headache, hyper, anxious, talkative, sweaty, tight

feeling around

> throat). I tried Armour & Biothyroid and years back and couldn't

stay on them

> after a few days either (similar symptoms, but took longer). I am

taking adrenal

> support supplements (licorice, Seriphos, adrenal cortex/raw

adrenal).

>

> Of particular interest is that these are the exact same symptoms

(minus the

> headache) when I take an extra dose of adrenal glandular or

whenever I take

> anything type of vitamin B complex orally (strangely, injecting B-

complex does

> not produce symptoms). I have never been able to figure this out

> definitively. I would guess it must have something to do with

adrenal issues; perhaps

> something more complex like HPA axis involvement. I have heard

that when your

> adrenals are not functioning properly, you have a hard time

tolerating thyroid

> meds.

[Guest guest]

If you take thyroid while your adrenal glands are not working well, you place

further stress on your adrenals, and you can further damage them. This is not

conjecture; this is real. All the manufacturers of thyroid supplements put in

their warnings the caution that doctors should first check adrenal function

prior to prescribing thyroid supplement.

The fact that you had trouble taking thyroid supplements before indicates that

you may have an adrenal problem.

The best way to determine the state of your adrenal function is to take the 4x a

day Adrenal Stress Index (ASI) saliva test by Diagnos Techs through

www.canaryclub.org You can find out all about this test on

www.stopthethyroidmadness.com

Some of the supplements you mention MAY contain cortisol (adrenal hormone). If

all they contain is vitamins or minerals to encourage your own adrenals, they

are probably safe.

It is always risky to take any hormone supplement without knowing whether or not

you need it. With the thyroid this is impossible to know unless you test Free

T3 and Free T4 because the symptoms of low thyroid can be the same as high

thyroid. Have you tested your thyroid levels?

Thyroid and adrenal problems are complex. My best advice is to learn this

yourself. You would be amazed how much you can learn very quickly, especially

if you read www.stopthethyroidmadness.com

Re: compounded T3 and side effects

So, do you suggest I stay on it to see if the symptoms alleviate?

Why do you suggest those adrenal support supps would be harmful; in what way?

In a message dated 08/13/07 11:27:52 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

retractap@... writes:

It sounds to me like you are having what is usually referred to as a thyroid

" dump. " When thyroid hormone builds in the bloodstream because a person has

not had the necessary cortisol to get it into the tissues for use, and then

the cortisol suddenly becomes available, the thyroid goes into the tissues all

at once, and the person experiences a feeling of being hyperthyroid. Most

likely you have had T4 building in your blood which has not been converted to

T3. T4 is the storage hormone and T3 is the active form of the hormone. If

your body has not been converting and you suddenly add in lots of available

direct T3, then you could feel hyperthyroid for a short amount of time. This

won't last long because T3 only lasts for a few hours in the body.

You are really playing with fire taking all those supplements (licorice,

Seriphos, adrenal cortex/raw adrenal) without knowing what you are doing

because

you can do yourself even more harm.

If you cannot find a good doctor who understands this, then you should learn

this for yourself. Try www.stopthethyroidmIf you cann

************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at

http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

[Guest guest]

I'm exactly the same way. I've tried Armour, Synthroid, levoxy, etc.

but haven't tried T3. But everything I have tried does exactly the

same thing. Just amps me to hell, plus headache, body ache, can't

sleep, etc. The active B-vitamins do it to me as well. Don't know

about regular B's. But the folapro and folinic do the same thing to

me too.

I recently got my thyroid antibodies + T3 and T4 levels checked, and

my thyroid antibodies were pretty elevated. T3 was within range(the

numbers don't match up with yours, I guess different labs) and T4 was

just slightly low.

Are you sudden or gradual onset? I'm gradual. Do you suffer from

constant thirst? I'd like to team up with some people who are also

dealing with thyroid hormone resistance to compare notes. I'm working

on getting a Dr. to test for pituitary and adrenal antibodies since I

suffer from 's-like symptoms, and I read that pituitary

antibodies should be checked when thyroid antibodies are present.

>

>

> In a message dated 08/13/07 3:09:59 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

> retractap@... writes:

>

> It is always risky to take any hormone supplement without knowing

whether or

> not you need it. With the thyroid this is impossible to know

unless you test

> Free T3 and Free T4 because the symptoms of low thyroid can be the

same as

> high thyroid. Have you tested your thyroid levels?

>

>

>

> My latest tests I listed in my last post. [The doc thought my T4 @

10.3 was

> slightly high in relation to my T3 @304. Historically, my TSH has

hovered

> between a low of 2.4 and a high of 4.0 for the last several years].

>

>

>

> ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-

new AOL at

> http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

" " <retractap@...> wrote:

>

> If you take thyroid while your adrenal glands are

> not working well, you place further stress on your

> adrenals, and you can further damage them. This

> is not conjecture; this is real. All the manufacturers

> of thyroid supplements put in their warnings the caution

> that doctors should first check adrenal function prior

> to prescribing thyroid supplement.

Only 's disease would show up on such MD testing.

Mild to moderate adrenal fatigue would not show up on

those tests. And thyroid meds without adrenal support

would indeed stress the

's patient. Anything or med without adrenal support

will be a stress on the 's person. An 's person

needs adrenal meds.

Unless the doctor has strong reasons to suspect 's

disease or a pituitary condition in the new hypothyroid patient,

adrenal function etc is not likely to be tested.

Speculating, that's maybe one out of a

1000 new hypothyroid patients, maybe one out of 10,000.

Having low thyroid undiagnosed and untreated

puts a stress on the adrenals, often over years or even

decades, and the adrenals try to make

up the difference and get exhausted in the process. Beginning

thyroid treatment in the right way itself helps take stress

off the adrenals, starting very low (e.g. 25 mcg T4) and gradually

raising at 6-8 week intervals until optimized works well,

graduating to a T4/T3 med in many cases, and

along with adrenal nutritional support of Vit C and a B50 complex,

possibly some extra pantothenic acid for a while, then

most thyroid patients who may be somewhat adrenal stressed

to begin with will do well with that, without additional and

expensive adrenal testing (saliva cortisolx4 testing)

that paid for out of pocket, or thinking they must take

hydrocortisone etc before they can start thyroid med

(only true in some cases, though a popular internet idea today).

Raising thyroid dosages too quickly will stress the adrenals

unnecessarily.

Take the test if you have the funds, but just starting thyroid

at a level that allows you to acclimatize comfortably, plus

nutritional support for adrenals (good all around nutrition

and supplementation) is a combination that works

well much of the time. You can finetune later as needed, but

that is likely many months down the road.

Carol

willis_protocols

see also my Links>Hormones>Adrenal, Links>Hormones>Thyroid folders.

[Guest guest]

These are not the tests you need to determine thyroid function. You need to

test the FREE T3 and FREE T4. The results you have are for total T4 and Total

T3 which include bound thyroid which is not available for use. TSH is Thyroid

Stimulating Hormone, which is produced by the pituitary gland to tell the

thyroid what to do. Measuring it only tells what the pituitary is telling the

thyroid to do, not what the thyroid is actually doing. You need to know what

the thyroid is actually doing.

As I said before, if you have a doctor who does not know how to treat the

thryoid and adrenals, then you need to either find one who does or learn

yourself, which you can do by reading www.stopthethyroidmadness.com

Re: compounded T3 and side effects

In a message dated 08/13/07 3:09:59 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

retractap@... writes:

It is always risky to take any hormone supplement without knowing whether or

not you need it. With the thyroid this is impossible to know unless you test

Free T3 and Free T4 because the symptoms of low thyroid can be the same as

high thyroid. Have you tested your thyroid levels?

My latest tests I listed in my last post. [The doc thought my T4 @ 10.3 was

slightly high in relation to my T3 @304. Historically, my TSH has hovered

between a low of 2.4 and a high of 4.0 for the last several years].

************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at

http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

[Guest guest]

Those were FREE T3 AND T4 tests, and at two different labs. Here are the

results in better detail:

QUEST:

Thyroxine (T4) (F): 10.3 (ref range 5.0-13.0)

T3, Free: 304 (ref range: 230-420)

TSH, Ultra Sensitive (F): 3.52 (ref range: 0.40-5.50)

LABCORP:

Triiodothyronine, Free, Serum: 3.2 (ref range: 13-71)

Thyroxine (T4) Free, Direct, S: 1.56 (ref range: 0.61-1.76)

Antithyroglobulin Ab: <20 (ref range: 0-40)

Thyroid Peroxidase (TPO) Ab: 11 (ref rage: 0-34)

TSH: 2.760 (ref range: 0.350-5.500)

These labs were exactly 5 days apart. Anyone care to interpret these? Like I

said, the doc thought my T3 was low in relation to T3, hence, the Rx for T3.

And again, I have tried both Armour and Biothyroid years back and they both

over-stimulated me (although not as quickly as the T3) as well.

In a message dated 08/14/07 9:41:04 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

retractap@... writes:

These are not the tests you need to determine thyroid function. You need to

test the FREE T3 and FREE T4. The results you have are for total T4 and Total

T3 which include bound thyroid which is not available for use. TSH is

Thyroid Stimulating Hormone, which is produced by the pituitary gland to tell

the

thyroid what to do. Measuring it only tells what the pituitary is telling the

thyroid to do, not what the thyroid is actually doing. You need to know what

the thyroid is actually doing.

As I said before, if you have a doctor who does not know how to treat the

thryoid and adrenals, then you need to either find one who does or learn

yourself, which you can do by reading www.stopthethyroidmAs I said

************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at

http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

[Guest guest]

" " <retractap@...> wrote:

>

> I disagree. MD's are now ordering the ASI (adrenal stress index)

> 4 x a day saliva test from Diagnos Techs. Also, even a

> one-time AM blood test can show whether or not cortisol

> is high at that time of day, and 8AM is the time of day

> when cortisol should be highest.

AM serum cortisol is rarely tested for in new hypothyroid cases

and is used for dx s or Cushings. www.labtestsonline.org

has details and says that saliva testing is out there but

is not widely available yet etc. See " when is it ordered "

and " what do test results mean (with notes on ref ranges) " .

There are a very few MDs who are now ordering the saliva

cortisolx4 test. Insurance coverage and billing are

separate issues.

Of all the saliva tests, cortisolx4 is the

one most likely to get accepted into the conventional medical

system sooner or later, and paid for by most insurance. I see this

as a good thing. Upside is hightened awareness of mild-moderate

adrenal fatigue that is not 's. Downside is that

the drs will likely Rx hydrocortisone immediately, and gloss

over the nutritional aspect and the distinction between

endogenous vs. exogenous cortisol and the systemic effects

of these.

> Yes, there are some things which can be used to help

> fatigued adrenals which would not be dangerous, such

> as taking 1/4-1/2 teaspoon real sea salt in water twice a day,

> supplementing vit B-12 if the person is low, taking added

> Vit C. These things can help by encouraging the person's

> own adrenals. However, if the person has very fatigued

> adrenals, these are not likely to be enough to help regain health.

B12 is going to be in the B-50 complex. High B12 is not

for everyone, and due to biotypes I suspect high B12 will not

be that useful to most persons with a lifetime of low adrenal

reserve.

No mention above of pantothenic acid (PA), which is a major player

and perhaps the star quarterback on the adrenal field.

Extra pantothenic acid, in varying amounts/duration, in addition to

a B50 complex, can be very effective in fostering more *endogenous*

cortisol, providing the person is not so adrenally fatigued

that they're in 's. This avenue is almost never

explored on the boards, and if it is, numbers/amounts/duration

are almost never cited. I suggest home monitoring of blood

pressure and blood glucose while taking extra pantothenic acid

beyond the B50 complex, as a reality check (especially if the

person is overweight or over 50 yrs old). The extra PA can work so

well it's possible to slide into high BP, high glucose, and/or

insulin resistance without realizing it, especially if overweight

or over 50 yrs old.

Carol

willis_protocols

Files, Links. (non-commercial, not a discussion group)

> Re: compounded T3 and side effects

>

>

> " " <retractap@> wrote:

> > If you take thyroid while your adrenal glands are

> > not working well, you place further stress on your

> > adrenals, and you can further damage them. This

> > is not conjecture; this is real. All the manufacturers

> > of thyroid supplements put in their warnings the caution

> > that doctors should first check adrenal function prior

> > to prescribing thyroid supplement.

>

> [cbwillis:]

> Only 's disease would show up on such MD testing.

> Mild to moderate adrenal fatigue would not show up on

> those tests. And thyroid meds without adrenal support

> would indeed stress the

> 's patient. Anything or med without adrenal support

> will be a stress on the 's person. An 's person

> needs adrenal meds.

>

> Unless the doctor has strong reasons to suspect 's

> disease or a pituitary condition in the new hypothyroid patient,

> adrenal function etc is not likely to be tested.

> Speculating, that's maybe one out of a

> 1000 new hypothyroid patients, maybe one out of 10,000.

>

> Having low thyroid undiagnosed and untreated

> puts a stress on the adrenals, often over years or even

> decades, and the adrenals try to make

> up the difference and get exhausted in the process. Beginning

> thyroid treatment in the right way itself helps take stress

> off the adrenals, starting very low (e.g. 25 mcg T4) and gradually

> raising at 6-8 week intervals until optimized works well,

> graduating to a T4/T3 med in many cases, and

> along with adrenal nutritional support of Vit C and a B50 complex,

> possibly some extra pantothenic acid for a while, then

> most thyroid patients who may be somewhat adrenal stressed

> to begin with will do well with that, without additional and

> expensive adrenal testing (saliva cortisolx4 testing)

> that paid for out of pocket, or thinking they must take

> hydrocortisone etc before they can start thyroid med

> (only true in some cases, though a popular internet idea today).

> Raising thyroid dosages too quickly will stress the adrenals

> unnecessarily.

> Take the test if you have the funds, but just starting thyroid

> at a level that allows you to acclimatize comfortably, plus

> nutritional support for adrenals (good all around nutrition

> and supplementation) is a combination that works

> well much of the time. You can finetune later as needed, but

> that is likely many months down the road.

>

> Carol

> willis_protocols

> see also my Links>Hormones>Adrenal,

> Links>Hormones>Thyroid folders.

[Guest guest]

The TSH above 2.0 by itself suggests hypothyroid.

Free T4 and Free T3 are optimal when in the upper third of

reference range, for persons taking thyroid med. They may not

need to be that high in normal euthyroid persons.

I have to wonder if you just needed more thyroid and adrenal

nutrition, but without going overboard on iodine (which can

raise TSH and give a confusing picture).

Thryoid meds are often started too high for the person to

comfortably acclimatize, so they abandon the meds. This

happened to me in my teens and my father at age 70, both

of us were started at 50 mcg T4 and we never adjusted to it,

so abandoned the meds. At 44, I started at 25 mcg T4 and

moved up smoothly, but I also had more B-complex and Vit C than

in the multiple taken some 30 yrs before.

Would start a T4 med no higher than 25 mcg, raise in 2-4 weeks to

50 mcg, and any subsequent raises in 8 weeks or so. Would

start Armour (natural T4/T3 med) at 30 mg (if too much, back

down to half of that to start).

Adrenal nutriton is needed concurrently:

1000-2000 mg Vit C, and a B-50 complex at a minimum.

Some amount of extra pantothenic acid etc is often helpful

as well, even for short periods of a few days.

Your experience suggests that possibly a daily requirement of

iodine at 150 mcg, Vit C and B-50 complex, eating some higher

selenium foods like salmon and brazil nuts or spirulina may

be all you'd need to self-correct without even taking thyroid meds.

That would be something to try - i.e. give the thyroid what it needs

in order to do its job and feed the adrenals. You don't need

superhigh amounts of these supplements to be effective, just enough.

You don't have thyroid antibodies to worry about, so that's good.

IF the nutrition didn't work, then very low amounts of thyroid med

to begin (the low amount may be all you'd ever need,

and can make an important difference for some people, especially

the elderly whose thyroid has gone just a tad low with age),

plus the nutritional foundation ongoing.

TCM classic herbal formulas to tonify " kidney yin " , " kidney yang, "

" Qi " , various approaches to " Qi circulation " , etc, can

also be helpful.

In a borderline thyroid situation such as yours, or in

mild-moderate adrenal fatigue, many people think they have

exhausted the nutritional route but in fact have not.

If there is a " never well since " viral component, I'd want

to bring in classical homeopathy to address that.

It will be interesting to see how some here will make out

with the valcyte approach where there is a viral component in

CFS. (Homeopathy and allopathic meds

CAN be used concurrently, though most doctors don't like this

as it confuses the picture for them, and it's hard to say what

causes what, but at some point who cares as long as you get well.)

[Ref: my article on deep integrative nutrition for adrenal support,

at url below.]

Carol

willis_protocols

Articles in Files. Links. (non-commercial, not a discussion group)

nutrimedent@... wrote:

> Those were FREE T3 AND T4 tests, and at two different labs.

> Here are the

> results in better detail:

>

> QUEST:

> Thyroxine (T4) (F): 10.3 (ref range 5.0-13.0)

> T3, Free: 304 (ref range: 230-420)

> TSH, Ultra Sensitive (F): 3.52 (ref range: 0.40-5.50)

>

> LABCORP:

> Triiodothyronine, Free, Serum: 3.2 (ref range: 13-71)

> Thyroxine (T4) Free, Direct, S: 1.56 (ref range: 0.61-1.76)

> Antithyroglobulin Ab: <20 (ref range: 0-40)

> Thyroid Peroxidase (TPO) Ab: 11 (ref rage: 0-34)

> TSH: 2.760 (ref range: 0.350-5.500)

>

> These labs were exactly 5 days apart. Anyone care to interpret

these? Like I

> said, the doc thought my T3 was low in relation to T3, hence, the

Rx for T3.

> And again, I have tried both Armour and Biothyroid years back and

they both

> over-stimulated me (although not as quickly as the T3) as well.

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

My full disclosure is on the top level of my url below, since

Feb 2004. You don't have to be a member to read that screen.

Regarding being mistaken about MDs more commonly testing for AM

cortisol, I've only been listing daily to people's adrenal

and thyroid stories on health forums for about 10 yrs now,

and it's possible most other tired person but those posters

gets tested for AM cortisol by their MDs without having to ask

for it. Dunno if listening for 20 yrs at the grassroots level

would give me any more advantage in accurately estimating

how it's going out there in the MD offices in hypothyroidville,

Hashi Town, and CFSland.

I tend to think we get a fair representation on the eforums

of the kinds of problems commonly encountered though. I

still think AM cortisol testing is uncommon for new hypothyroid

patients, and that you have been very lucky personally. It's

possible that with all the net talk about adrenals in connection

with thyroid that more docs are starting to put this together,

or wanting to be more responsive to patient concerns and questions.

I would practically bet money though that only 1 out of 1000

or fewer new hypothyroid patients gets tested for AM cortisol

without asking for it.

Pantothenic acid for low adrenal reserve? Adele was

touting this when I began to read her around 1971.

That was my first exposure to the idea, which is fairly pervasive

in the nutrition and naturopathic fields since then.

The question about pantothenic acid in low adrenal reserve is

how much, for how long, acute vs. ongoing use, etc. So I talk

about B50 complex for ongoing use, and extra pantothenic acid

on top of that in some amount suited to the individual for

shorter term use.

Carol

willis_protocols

Article archive in Files. Extensive Links. Photos.

(non-commercial, not a discussion group)

" " <retractap@...> wrote:

>

> Saliva testing is available to anyone who sends a kit

> in to Diagnos Techs, and many doctors are now doing this.

> Insurance and medicare pay where applicable.

>

> My doctors ordered the AM cortisol testing for me even

> before I, myself, knew anything about adrenal issues.

>

> I believe you are mistaken.

>

> I have never seen panththentic acid prescribed for

> adrenal problems. Can you cite sources?

>

> Are you a nutritionist?

>

>

> Re: compounded T3 and side effects

> >

> >

> > " " <retractap@> wrote:

> > > If you take thyroid while your adrenal glands are

> > > not working well, you place further stress on your

> > > adrenals, and you can further damage them. This

> > > is not conjecture; this is real. All the manufacturers

> > > of thyroid supplements put in their warnings the caution

> > > that doctors should first check adrenal function prior

> > > to prescribing thyroid supplement.

> >

> > [cbwillis:]

> > Only 's disease would show up on such MD testing.

> > Mild to moderate adrenal fatigue would not show up on

> > those tests. And thyroid meds without adrenal support

> > would indeed stress the

> > 's patient. Anything or med without adrenal support

> > will be a stress on the 's person. An 's person

> > needs adrenal meds.

> >

> > Unless the doctor has strong reasons to suspect 's

> > disease or a pituitary condition in the new hypothyroid patient,

> > adrenal function etc is not likely to be tested.

> > Speculating, that's maybe one out of a

> > 1000 new hypothyroid patients, maybe one out of 10,000.

> >

> > Having low thyroid undiagnosed and untreated

> > puts a stress on the adrenals, often over years or even

> > decades, and the adrenals try to make

> > up the difference and get exhausted in the process. Beginning

> > thyroid treatment in the right way itself helps take stress

> > off the adrenals, starting very low (e.g. 25 mcg T4) and

gradually

> > raising at 6-8 week intervals until optimized works well,

> > graduating to a T4/T3 med in many cases, and

> > along with adrenal nutritional support of Vit C and a B50

complex,

> > possibly some extra pantothenic acid for a while, then

> > most thyroid patients who may be somewhat adrenal stressed

> > to begin with will do well with that, without additional and

> > expensive adrenal testing (saliva cortisolx4 testing)

> > that paid for out of pocket, or thinking they must take

> > hydrocortisone etc before they can start thyroid med

> > (only true in some cases, though a popular internet idea today).

> > Raising thyroid dosages too quickly will stress the adrenals

> > unnecessarily.

> > Take the test if you have the funds, but just starting thyroid

> > at a level that allows you to acclimatize comfortably, plus

> > nutritional support for adrenals (good all around nutrition

> > and supplementation) is a combination that works

> > well much of the time. You can finetune later as needed, but

> > that is likely many months down the road.

> >

> > Carol

> > willis_protocols

> > see also my Links>Hormones>Adrenal,

> > Links>Hormones>Thyroid folders.

[Guest guest]

Now my shrink is sending me back to an ENT.

> > > > If you take thyroid while your adrenal glands are

> > > > not working well, you place further stress on your

> > > > adrenals, and you can further damage them. This

> > > > is not conjecture; this is real. All the manufacturers

> > > > of thyroid supplements put in their warnings the caution

> > > > that doctors should first check adrenal function prior

> > > > to prescribing thyroid supplement.

> > >

> > > [cbwillis:]

> > > Only 's disease would show up on such MD testing.

> > > Mild to moderate adrenal fatigue would not show up on

> > > those tests. And thyroid meds without adrenal support

> > > would indeed stress the

> > > 's patient. Anything or med without adrenal support

> > > will be a stress on the 's person. An 's person

> > > needs adrenal meds.

> > >

> > > Unless the doctor has strong reasons to suspect 's

> > > disease or a pituitary condition in the new hypothyroid patient,

> > > adrenal function etc is not likely to be tested.

> > > Speculating, that's maybe one out of a

> > > 1000 new hypothyroid patients, maybe one out of 10,000.

> > >

> > > Having low thyroid undiagnosed and untreated

> > > puts a stress on the adrenals, often over years or even

> > > decades, and the adrenals try to make

> > > up the difference and get exhausted in the process. Beginning

> > > thyroid treatment in the right way itself helps take stress

> > > off the adrenals, starting very low (e.g. 25 mcg T4) and

> gradually

> > > raising at 6-8 week intervals until optimized works well,

> > > graduating to a T4/T3 med in many cases, and

> > > along with adrenal nutritional support of Vit C and a B50

> complex,

> > > possibly some extra pantothenic acid for a while, then

> > > most thyroid patients who may be somewhat adrenal stressed

> > > to begin with will do well with that, without additional and

> > > expensive adrenal testing (saliva cortisolx4 testing)

> > > that paid for out of pocket, or thinking they must take

> > > hydrocortisone etc before they can start thyroid med

> > > (only true in some cases, though a popular internet idea today).

> > > Raising thyroid dosages too quickly will stress the adrenals

> > > unnecessarily.

> > > Take the test if you have the funds, but just starting thyroid

> > > at a level that allows you to acclimatize comfortably, plus

> > > nutritional support for adrenals (good all around nutrition

> > > and supplementation) is a combination that works

> > > well much of the time. You can finetune later as needed, but

> > > that is likely many months down the road.

> > >

> > > Carol

> > > willis_protocols

> > > see also my Links>Hormones>Adrenal,

> > > Links>Hormones>Thyroid folders.

>