Re: Cortisol/Florinef- who takes them? was: Vitamin D / Adrenal / Cortisone

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the reply. What about Florinef? Have you tried it?

One thing I was reading about 's was that " Aldosterone

regulates salt and water levels which affects blood volume and blood

pressure "

http://www.medhelp.org/www/nadf3.htm

and that matches up with lots of my symptoms. Salt and water levels,

which would be the constant thirst, plus I read a interview with

Klimas on the DFW Cfids page where she said lots of PWC's she

had seen were low on total blood volume, most people had 4.5 liters,

she said the people she saw averaged a liter less, which is a hell of

a lot, plus the other stuff I listed in my first post. So that looks

worth checking into. I just wanted to see who has taken it and if it

helped, since my thyroid is messed up but I can't tolerate the

thyroid meds I've tried, etc.

Thanks for the reply.

> > >

> > > Mark

> > >

> > > Let me say again that Vitamin D has significantly decreased

> > inflammatory

> > > spine pain for me. I am very thankful for that.

> > >

> > > mjh

> > >

> > >

> > > Yes and no. It can play a role in reducing inflammation for

some

> > > conditions, but not necessarily others. I.e. you can't reduce

the

> > > inflammation in diseases like sarcoidosis with vitamin D,

whereas

> > > cortisone is effective. And vitamin D hasn't been shown to help

> > > simple inflammation caused by common arthritis. And vitamin D

of

> > > course requires conversion to 1,25(OH)2D to be anti-

inflammatory,

> > and

> > > that doesn't necessarily occur in all tissues. - Mark

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ************************************** See what's free at

> > http://www.aol.com.

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

I tired florinef briefly 10 years ago after I had positive tilttable

test---I couldnt stand it as it made my heart rate go way up, very

uncomfortable.

and I just read some article (here, elsewhere?) about fluoride being

bad for people, and that anything with " flor " in its title was

related and bad, what the heck was it, I think a theory that fluoride

in water a culprit for some with chem sensitivity or something.

Anyway, maybe I couldnt tolerate the florinef because I have trouble

tolerating most things because of detox deficiency.

I think that licorice helps a little, maybe, and rebreathing, and

lying flat for awhile.

> > > >

> > > > Mark

> > > >

> > > > Let me say again that Vitamin D has significantly decreased

> > > inflammatory

> > > > spine pain for me. I am very thankful for that.

> > > >

> > > > mjh

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Yes and no. It can play a role in reducing inflammation for

> some

> > > > conditions, but not necessarily others. I.e. you can't reduce

> the

> > > > inflammation in diseases like sarcoidosis with vitamin D,

> whereas

> > > > cortisone is effective. And vitamin D hasn't been shown to

help

> > > > simple inflammation caused by common arthritis. And vitamin

D

> of

> > > > course requires conversion to 1,25(OH)2D to be anti-

> inflammatory,

> > > and

> > > > that doesn't necessarily occur in all tissues. - Mark

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > ************************************** See what's free at

> > > http://www.aol.com.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

No I didn't use florinef. My blood pressure wasn't all that low.. and

my electrolytes weren't out of whack. I mainly had symptoms of mild

glucocorticoid deficiency, or as they say " poor adrenal reserve " . Thus

the cortisol...

> > > >

> > > > Mark

> > > >

> > > > Let me say again that Vitamin D has significantly decreased

> > > inflammatory

> > > > spine pain for me. I am very thankful for that.

> > > >

> > > > mjh

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Yes and no. It can play a role in reducing inflammation for

> some

> > > > conditions, but not necessarily others. I.e. you can't reduce

> the

> > > > inflammation in diseases like sarcoidosis with vitamin D,

> whereas

> > > > cortisone is effective. And vitamin D hasn't been shown to help

> > > > simple inflammation caused by common arthritis. And vitamin D

> of

> > > > course requires conversion to 1,25(OH)2D to be anti-

> inflammatory,

> > > and

> > > > that doesn't necessarily occur in all tissues. - Mark

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > ************************************** See what's free at

> > > http://www.aol.com.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

Flouride is antagonistic to thyroid hormone, which could be what is causing the

problem. Florinef is fludrocortisone, which is used to help if aldosterone is

low. Aldosterone is a hormone produced by the adrenal cortex which, among other

things, regulates sodium in the body, along with electrolites. Florinef is a

very potent medicine and it has to be started low and moved up if needed, and

should never be taken unless someone knows they are low in aldosterone to start

with. Licorice keeps cortisol, another hormone produced in the adrenal cortex,

in the body longer. If licorice helped you, maybe you were low in cortisol.

Re: Cortisol/Florinef- who takes them? was:

Vitamin D / Adrenal / Cortisone

I tired florinef briefly 10 years ago after I had positive tilttable

test---I couldnt stand it as it made my heart rate go way up, very

uncomfortable.

and I just read some article (here, elsewhere?) about fluoride being

bad for people, and that anything with " flor " in its title was

related and bad, what the heck was it, I think a theory that fluoride

in water a culprit for some with chem sensitivity or something.

Anyway, maybe I couldnt tolerate the florinef because I have trouble

tolerating most things because of detox deficiency.

I think that licorice helps a little, maybe, and rebreathing, and

lying flat for awhile.

> > > >

> > > > Mark

> > > >

> > > > Let me say again that Vitamin D has significantly decreased

> > > inflammatory

> > > > spine pain for me. I am very thankful for that.

> > > >

> > > > mjh

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Yes and no. It can play a role in reducing inflammation for

> some

> > > > conditions, but not necessarily others. I.e. you can't reduce

> the

> > > > inflammation in diseases like sarcoidosis with vitamin D,

> whereas

> > > > cortisone is effective. And vitamin D hasn't been shown to

help

> > > > simple inflammation caused by common arthritis. And vitamin

D

> of

> > > > course requires conversion to 1,25(OH)2D to be anti-

> inflammatory,

> > > and

> > > > that doesn't necessarily occur in all tissues. - Mark

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > ************************************** See what's free at

> > > http://www.aol.com.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

[Guest guest]

you seem to know your science! thx.

the licorice helping is subtle, still trying to discern that by going

on and off and controlling other variables.

That is interesting about florinef, so it seems just a positive

tilttable test is not sufficient to hand that out....but they did.

thankfully I didnt stay on it.

> > > > >

> > > > > Mark

> > > > >

> > > > > Let me say again that Vitamin D has significantly

decreased

> > > > inflammatory

> > > > > spine pain for me. I am very thankful for that.

> > > > >

> > > > > mjh

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Yes and no. It can play a role in reducing inflammation

for

> > some

> > > > > conditions, but not necessarily others. I.e. you can't

reduce

> > the

> > > > > inflammation in diseases like sarcoidosis with vitamin D,

> > whereas

> > > > > cortisone is effective. And vitamin D hasn't been shown

to

> help

> > > > > simple inflammation caused by common arthritis. And

vitamin

> D

> > of

> > > > > course requires conversion to 1,25(OH)2D to be anti-

> > inflammatory,

> > > > and

> > > > > that doesn't necessarily occur in all tissues. - Mark

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > ************************************** See what's free at

> > > > http://www.aol.com.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

[Guest guest]

There are a few things, mostly thyroid and adrenal, that I do know about. Some

doctors prescribe florinef " for a trial " when they see symptoms which may be

caused by low aldosterone. The problem with this is that for some people who do

not have low aldosterone and take florinef, it can make them very, very sick,

and it can take a while for them to get over it once they stop the florinef.

Also, many doctors just give it to people and tell them to start with the

maximum dosage, which can wreak havoc on the weak adrenals, which is why people

need the florinef to start with. I don't know why doctors don't learn this. If

I can learn it, they could too, if they wanted to.

Florinef does seem to work wonders for people who need it, though. But for my

money, I'd get the aldosterone test done first and if it comes out low (below

mid-range, whatever the lab's ranges are), then go with the florinef. And you

can get it done yourself, without a doctor, at Diredct Labs.

Your doctor most likely was really trying to help you but was just not very

familiar with florinef testing and dosing.

Re: Cortisol/Florinef- who takes them? was:

Vitamin D / Adrenal / Cortisone

you seem to know your science! thx.

the licorice helping is subtle, still trying to discern that by going

on and off and controlling other variables.

That is interesting about florinef, so it seems just a positive

tilttable test is not sufficient to hand that out....but they did.

thankfully I didnt stay on it.

> > > > >

> > > > > Mark

> > > > >

> > > > > Let me say again that Vitamin D has significantly

decreased

> > > > inflammatory

> > > > > spine pain for me. I am very thankful for that.

> > > > >

> > > > > mjh

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Yes and no. It can play a role in reducing inflammation

for

> > some

> > > > > conditions, but not necessarily others. I.e. you can't

reduce

> > the

> > > > > inflammation in diseases like sarcoidosis with vitamin D,

> > whereas

> > > > > cortisone is effective. And vitamin D hasn't been shown

to

> help

> > > > > simple inflammation caused by common arthritis. And

vitamin

> D

> > of

> > > > > course requires conversion to 1,25(OH)2D to be anti-

> > inflammatory,

> > > > and

> > > > > that doesn't necessarily occur in all tissues. - Mark

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > ************************************** See what's free at

> > > > http://www.aol.com.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

[Guest guest]

You don't have to have CFS to have a positive tilt table test. Many

people feel a little dizzy when they stand up and could be induced to

pass out by a tilt table test. This probably just shows weak

adrenals, or perhaps some autonomic lag. I'd wager to say they don't

give florinef to most people who fail a tilt table test, unless their

blood pressure is consistently low, or they are passing out a lot.

>

>

> you seem to know your science! thx.

> the licorice helping is subtle, still trying to discern that by going

> on and off and controlling other variables.

> That is interesting about florinef, so it seems just a positive

> tilttable test is not sufficient to hand that out....but they did.

> thankfully I didnt stay on it.

>

[Guest guest]

And then there's me. I have chronically low blood pressure, all the

classic signs of low thyroid (low energy, low body temp, cold hands &

feet, outer 1/3rd of eyebrows missing), but all my thyroid tests come

out as low-normal, and I " passed " a tilt-table test about 5 months ago

(i.e., I didn't pass out), which disappointed the researcher no end as

he was trying to find research subjects. The endocrine system is so

complex, I despaired of ever understanding it when I first started

reading about it years ago. I'm finding this discussion of adrenal

function fascinating.

Marcia on

in Salem, Massachusetts

>

> You don't have to have CFS to have a positive tilt table test. Many

> people feel a little dizzy when they stand up and could be induced to

> pass out by a tilt table test.

[Guest guest]

Marcia, how long did they have you stand there? I didn't pass out

until 27 minutes, but I sure was nausated much of the time.

a

>

> And then there's me. I have chronically low blood pressure, all the

> classic signs of low thyroid (low energy, low body temp, cold hands

&

> feet, outer 1/3rd of eyebrows missing), but all my thyroid tests

come

> out as low-normal, and I " passed " a tilt-table test about 5 months

ago

> (i.e., I didn't pass out), which disappointed the researcher no end

as

> he was trying to find research subjects. The endocrine system is so

> complex, I despaired of ever understanding it when I first started

> reading about it years ago. I'm finding this discussion of adrenal

> function fascinating.

>

> Marcia on

> in Salem, Massachusetts

>

>

> >

> > You don't have to have CFS to have a positive tilt table test.

Many

> > people feel a little dizzy when they stand up and could be

induced to

> > pass out by a tilt table test.

>

[Guest guest]

JM,

(off-line alot, so just getting to this)

I began Florinef in 1995,6, after several years mostly bedridden. It put me on

my feet and able to hold a conversation, also some multi-tasking. I overdid it,

injured my back and went back down for a bit. Eventually I was no longer

bedridden except a couple of times. The last was 2000? for 6 months and 2003 for

a couple of weeks.

I went on Florinef for NMH, an autonomic disorder in CFS. That itself, Autonomic

disorders, for some, can cause severe reaction and recovery time, to slightest

stress...even thinking something stressful.

Tho I have never heard this, after Florinef, a constipation issue was

completely resolved, never to return.

I am never bedridden now, but need to sit with feet up alot every day. I'm

usually out driving/errands or something every day, sometimes for hours. Best is

short outings with breaks in between.

{ I am very injured/disabled in other ways, and Cardiac and Neuro problems. Some

are probably *because* I can be upright/out so much }.

Then, apparent adrenal rushes/exhaustion became pretty serious, with long

recovery time -being fragile, others describe. In 2006, Dr. Cheney put me on low

dose Cortef. It has been a life-saver for stress, and that rush thing. Another

is dessicated adrenal by Standard Process. Love that! Each is immediate and

espcially with the Cortef have really helped through a hard year...multiple

deaths, and witnessing crime, car accident, on-line stress..

I'm not seeing Dr. Cheney now, so don't have monitoring. With Osteopath

guidance, I stagger it a bit...concerned with effects of too much. I only take

about a quarter of a 5mg, cause more did not feel right. I'm hyper reactive, pro

and con, to everything. I think I could go a little higher lately. Sometimes I

take a quarter of Klonopin at same time. This has to do with my tremor.

Anyway, it helps alleviate that horrible rush, and definitely helps me

cognitively and with articulation.

I wanted to get off of Florinef, on general principles. Dr. Cheney wanted me to

wait for a year of Cardiac treatment, but at that point I could not go back. HE

said add Cortef, or try low dose prednisone instead of those 2. Have not tried

that...not eager to.

I'm winging it now, with slight monitoring from my dear Osteo. No one I see now

knows what the heck all my treatment is about, but he's supportive and closest

to " getting it " .

I'll need to learn more, in my non existent spare time.

It sounds like knows this stuff, so listen to her about the Florinef.

Some cannot tolerate it at all. Others, as Dr. Cheney said " will kill for

Florinef " . Guess that's me, too. Cutting back was disastrous.

TC,

Katrina

---

In , " j mascis " <mascis_j@...> wrote:

>

> Thanks for the reply. What about Florinef? Have you tried it?

>

> One thing I was reading about 's was that " Aldosterone

> regulates salt and water levels which affects blood volume and blood

> pressure "

> http://www.medhelp.org/www/nadf3.htm

>

> and that matches up with lots of my symptoms. Salt and water levels,

> which would be the constant thirst, plus I read a interview with

> Klimas on the DFW Cfids page where she said lots of PWC's she

> had seen were low on total blood volume, most people had 4.5 liters,

> she said the people she saw averaged a liter less, which is a hell of

> a lot, plus the other stuff I listed in my first post. So that looks

> worth checking into. I just wanted to see who has taken it and if it

> helped, since my thyroid is messed up but I can't tolerate the

> thyroid meds I've tried, etc.

>

> Thanks for the reply.

>

>

>

>

> > > >

> > > > Mark

> > > >

> > > > Let me say again that Vitamin D has significantly decreased

> > > inflammatory

> > > > spine pain for me. I am very thankful for that.

> > > >

> > > > mjh

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Yes and no. It can play a role in reducing inflammation for

> some

> > > > conditions, but not necessarily others. I.e. you can't reduce

> the

> > > > inflammation in diseases like sarcoidosis with vitamin D,

> whereas

> > > > cortisone is effective. And vitamin D hasn't been shown to help

> > > > simple inflammation caused by common arthritis. And vitamin D

> of

> > > > course requires conversion to 1,25(OH)2D to be anti-

> inflammatory,

> > > and

> > > > that doesn't necessarily occur in all tissues. - Mark

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > ************************************** See what's free at

> > > http://www.aol.com.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >