Re: adverse reactions to probitocs common or not

[Guest guest]

I have been told by a naturopath Dr. that probiotics are natural

antibiotics. Perhaps you are experiencing more than fungal die off.

Perhaps some bacterial or viral die off in the CNS.I wonder if you could

try charcoal or someother detox strategy along with the probiotics..

Another explanation for CNS symtpoms are porphryns but I don't know much

about them. See Cpnhelp.org.

Gail

per h wrote:

>

> Hi there,

> I may have posted about this in the past so forgive me, but its such

> a big issue.

>

> I would like to know if adverse reactions to probiotics are something

> that is often experienced by people with CFS.

>

> People with CFS are often recommended probiotics as part of a regimen

> or when doing antibiotics.

>

> I have tried many brands during the years in the hope of good benefit

> but I have always ended up with the same disturbing results.

>

> Does anybody else suffer from extreme irritability and aggressiveness

> when taking probiotics or is it just me?

>

> A headache, a rash, joint pain, whatever physical symptom, Im sure I

> could handle it, but not this...this emotional havoc that always

> is related to probiotic intake is a mystery to me, and I have not

> received a good explanation from any doctor.

>

> I dont want to experiment on myself, I would like to know if anybody

> else experience this.

>

> Again, mainly emotional symptoms like extreme irritability and

> extreme aggression, have the urge to smash things. (I must add that I

> am normally a calm person and do not have issues like these)

>

> I have had some physical symptoms too like joint pain, circulatory

> issues, etc but its the emotional ones who are problematic.

>

> And it is related to intake, so no need to question this thanks..

>

> Input appreciated.

>

> Per

>

>

[Guest guest]

Sounds very much like a die off (Herxheimer reaction) from the

probiotics - aggressive mood swings can happen with many people from

die off - the probiotics may be releasing high numbers of toxins

into the system due to die off (herxheimer reaction) from yeasts -

your mood can really swing with this into worse depression anger etc

etc all due to the body overloaded with toxins.

IF you suffer more with brain fog with CFS or fatigue so your brain

symptoms may be worse with the probiotics as they work.

As you could be very sensitive to things maybe try very very low

amounts of probiotics half or one quarter of what is advised or maybe

try other routes if you are trying to clear yeast, have you tried

things like caprylic acid or grapefruit seed extract etc ? take it

very slow if you are getting this sort of reaction to the probiotics

as they do knock yeast out and your body can only expel so much at a

time the rest is going round and round until things settle down and

this can take a time with some people they feel like they are going

mad or dying.

>

> Hi there,

> I may have posted about this in the past so forgive me, but its such

> a big issue.

>

> I would like to know if adverse reactions to probiotics are something

> that is often experienced by people with CFS.

>

> People with CFS are often recommended probiotics as part of a regimen

> or when doing antibiotics.

>

> I have tried many brands during the years in the hope of good benefit

> but I have always ended up with the same disturbing results.

>

> Does anybody else suffer from extreme irritability and aggressiveness

> when taking probiotics or is it just me?

>

> A headache, a rash, joint pain, whatever physical symptom, Im sure I

> could handle it, but not this...this emotional havoc that always

> is related to probiotic intake is a mystery to me, and I have not

> received a good explanation from any doctor.

>

> I dont want to experiment on myself, I would like to know if anybody

> else experience this.

>

> Again, mainly emotional symptoms like extreme irritability and

> extreme aggression, have the urge to smash things. (I must add that I

> am normally a calm person and do not have issues like these)

>

> I have had some physical symptoms too like joint pain, circulatory

> issues, etc but its the emotional ones who are problematic.

>

> And it is related to intake, so no need to question this thanks..

>

> Input appreciated.

>

>

>

> Per

>

[Guest guest]

Hi,

Thanks for the response. Yea Ive been thinking of herxheimer too, but

im not sure.

The severity is proportional to the level of intake. So lowering dose

helps but I still have problems with it at almost any level.

I have tried caprylic acid and grapeseed extract without problems and

Ive had some benefit from them.

Also I have tried antibiotics and anti-yeast medication and they dont

give these symptoms.

> Sounds very much like a die off (Herxheimer reaction) from the

> probiotics - aggressive mood swings can happen with many people from

> die off - the probiotics may be releasing high numbers of toxins

> into the system due to die off (herxheimer reaction) from yeasts -

> your mood can really swing with this into worse depression anger etc

> etc all due to the body overloaded with toxins.

> IF you suffer more with brain fog with CFS or fatigue so your

brain

> symptoms may be worse with the probiotics as they work.

> As you could be very sensitive to things maybe try very very low

> amounts of probiotics half or one quarter of what is advised or

maybe

> try other routes if you are trying to clear yeast, have you tried

> things like caprylic acid or grapefruit seed extract etc ? take it

> very slow if you are getting this sort of reaction to the probiotics

> as they do knock yeast out and your body can only expel so much at a

> time the rest is going round and round until things settle down and

> this can take a time with some people they feel like they are going

> mad or dying.

>

>

> >

> > Hi there,

> > I may have posted about this in the past so forgive me, but its

such

> > a big issue.

> >

> > I would like to know if adverse reactions to probiotics are

something

> > that is often experienced by people with CFS.

> >

> > People with CFS are often recommended probiotics as part of a

regimen

> > or when doing antibiotics.

> >

> > I have tried many brands during the years in the hope of good

benefit

> > but I have always ended up with the same disturbing results.

> >

> > Does anybody else suffer from extreme irritability and

aggressiveness

> > when taking probiotics or is it just me?

> >

> > A headache, a rash, joint pain, whatever physical symptom, Im

sure I

> > could handle it, but not this...this emotional havoc that always

> > is related to probiotic intake is a mystery to me, and I have not

> > received a good explanation from any doctor.

> >

> > I dont want to experiment on myself, I would like to know if

anybody

> > else experience this.

> >

> > Again, mainly emotional symptoms like extreme irritability and

> > extreme aggression, have the urge to smash things. (I must add

that I

> > am normally a calm person and do not have issues like these)

> >

> > I have had some physical symptoms too like joint pain,

circulatory

> > issues, etc but its the emotional ones who are problematic.

> >

> > And it is related to intake, so no need to question this thanks..

> >

> > Input appreciated.

> >

> >

> >

> > Per

> >

>

[Guest guest]

same exact thing happens to me.

I suffer from CFS as well. I am mercury-toxic and chelation always causes

yeast.

Probiotics DO cause a lot of mood swings for me. I guess it is a sign that

they are working. I hope it is all for the better.

Emre

On 4/17/07, per h <pehan03@...> wrote:

>

>

> Hi,

> Thanks for the response. Yea Ive been thinking of herxheimer too, but

> im not sure.

>

> The severity is proportional to the level of intake. So lowering dose

> helps but I still have problems with it at almost any level.

>

> I have tried caprylic acid and grapeseed extract without problems and

> Ive had some benefit from them.

> Also I have tried antibiotics and anti-yeast medication and they dont

> give these symptoms.

>

> > Sounds very much like a die off (Herxheimer reaction) from the

> > probiotics - aggressive mood swings can happen with many people from

> > die off - the probiotics may be releasing high numbers of toxins

> > into the system due to die off (herxheimer reaction) from yeasts -

> > your mood can really swing with this into worse depression anger etc

> > etc all due to the body overloaded with toxins.

> > IF you suffer more with brain fog with CFS or fatigue so your

> brain

> > symptoms may be worse with the probiotics as they work.

> > As you could be very sensitive to things maybe try very very low

> > amounts of probiotics half or one quarter of what is advised or

> maybe

> > try other routes if you are trying to clear yeast, have you tried

> > things like caprylic acid or grapefruit seed extract etc ? take it

> > very slow if you are getting this sort of reaction to the probiotics

> > as they do knock yeast out and your body can only expel so much at a

> > time the rest is going round and round until things settle down and

> > this can take a time with some people they feel like they are going

> > mad or dying.

> >

> >

> > >

> > > Hi there,

> > > I may have posted about this in the past so forgive me, but its

> such

> > > a big issue.

> > >

> > > I would like to know if adverse reactions to probiotics are

> something

> > > that is often experienced by people with CFS.

> > >

> > > People with CFS are often recommended probiotics as part of a

> regimen

> > > or when doing antibiotics.

> > >

> > > I have tried many brands during the years in the hope of good

> benefit

> > > but I have always ended up with the same disturbing results.

> > >

> > > Does anybody else suffer from extreme irritability and

> aggressiveness

> > > when taking probiotics or is it just me?

> > >

> > > A headache, a rash, joint pain, whatever physical symptom, Im

> sure I

> > > could handle it, but not this...this emotional havoc that always

> > > is related to probiotic intake is a mystery to me, and I have not

> > > received a good explanation from any doctor.

> > >

> > > I dont want to experiment on myself, I would like to know if

> anybody

> > > else experience this.

> > >

> > > Again, mainly emotional symptoms like extreme irritability and

> > > extreme aggression, have the urge to smash things. (I must add

> that I

> > > am normally a calm person and do not have issues like these)

> > >

> > > I have had some physical symptoms too like joint pain,

> circulatory

> > > issues, etc but its the emotional ones who are problematic.

> > >

> > > And it is related to intake, so no need to question this thanks..

> > >

> > > Input appreciated.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Per

> > >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Kefir may be a viable alternative. It's very rich in pro- and

prebiotics and is usually well tolerated, esp since the milk has been

predigested. It also is possible to make kefir at home from starter

using dried goat milk and coconut 'water' (what we think of as the

milk) if milk products are not wanted at all.

Plain kefir is pretty tangy but a very small bit of pureed fruit in it

helps the taste. Pureed veggies are good in it, too. And it makes

great dip.

Buttermilk is another source rich in pre- and probiotics, though

personally I'll take kefir any day, lol.

Good luck.

[Guest guest]

You could also be mobilizing metals in your body they will just be

going round and round and causing you very very bad mood swings . May

be metal could be something to do with your cfs problem . Probiotics

can methylate mercury:-

http://healthydetox.org/tips/ndf_detox_issues_considerations/probiotics_hmd.html

Have you tried metal chelation for your cfs ?

>

>

> Hi,

> Thanks for the response. Yea Ive been thinking of herxheimer too, but

> im not sure.

>

> The severity is proportional to the level of intake. So lowering dose

> helps but I still have problems with it at almost any level.

>

> I have tried caprylic acid and grapeseed extract without problems and

> Ive had some benefit from them.

> Also I have tried antibiotics and anti-yeast medication and they dont

> give these symptoms.

>

[Guest guest]

This is so confusing! Can someone explain this to me?

As I try to chelate mercury out of my body using ALA and DMSA, I get a lot

of yeast. If I can't use probiotics, what can I do?

Thanks,

Emre

On 4/17/07, dawnofthedeadhere <dawnofthedeadhere@...> wrote:

>

>

> You could also be mobilizing metals in your body they will just be

> going round and round and causing you very very bad mood swings . May

> be metal could be something to do with your cfs problem . Probiotics

> can methylate mercury:-

>

>

http://healthydetox.org/tips/ndf_detox_issues_considerations/probiotics_hmd.html

> Have you tried metal chelation for your cfs ?

>

>

>

> >

> >

> > Hi,

> > Thanks for the response. Yea Ive been thinking of herxheimer too, but

> > im not sure.

> >

> > The severity is proportional to the level of intake. So lowering dose

> > helps but I still have problems with it at almost any level.

> >

> > I have tried caprylic acid and grapeseed extract without problems and

> > Ive had some benefit from them.

> > Also I have tried antibiotics and anti-yeast medication and they dont

> > give these symptoms.

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Gail, I talked to my husband about his reactions while yeast-busting

with cream of tartar and probiotics. He apparently had several

extremely aggressive phases before I bumped his molybdenum waaaaay up.

The other thing that appeared to help him when the aggression hit was

to immediately eat a protein/veggie-rich meal until he was very full.

Salads with variety of veg and meat, etc. As long as he had more

molybdenum and access to protein and veg, the aggressive phases were

greatly lessened. Plus it probably provided a coping mechanism, to

know there was a way to handle the feeling.

From what I know about yeast die-off, the irritability/aggressive

feelings are an effect from the yeast alcohol produced. I don't know

that for a fact, it's what I've been told and gathered here and there

in reading.

I was actually kind of shocked to hear how he described the extreme

aggression he felt; he didn't describe it as irritability at all, it

was a " look out you're about to die at my hand " kind of thing. He's

normally a pretty calm guy, too.

[Guest guest]

If you cannot for whatever reason use probiotics - then why not try

other means with things such as Berberine, Olive Leaf Extract,

Black Walnut, Pau d’arco, caprylic acid , grapefriut seed

extract,Garlic,Cat's Claw,Biotin,Oil of Oregano,

If you have tried probiotic and can´t use them due to feeling so

terrible then may be you are on the right path as metals can be

mobilized ( moved around in the body) by the probiotics . Using the

right protocol with ALA and DMSA you should be excreting the metals

slowly over time.

>

> This is so confusing! Can someone explain this to me?

> As I try to chelate mercury out of my body using ALA and DMSA, I get

a lot

> of yeast. If I can't use probiotics, what can I do?

>

> Thanks,

> Emre

[Guest guest]

These reactions may not be due to herxing at all, and may be misinterpreted

as such, when in fact, they could be an allergy to the probiotic strains

themselves due to leaky gut syndrome (the bugs are crossing the gut barrier and

getting into the bloodstream where they should not be, and illiciting untoward

reactions). I'm sure if you google it, you can find the data.

In a message dated 04/17/07 9:45:37 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

gmilsem@... writes:

I have been told by a naturopath Dr. that probiotics are natural

antibiotics. Perhaps you are experiencing more than fungal die off.

Perhaps some bacterial or viral die off in the CNS.I wonder if you could

try charcoal or someother detox strategy along with the probiotics..

Another explanation for CNS symtpoms are porphryns but I don't know much

about them. See Cpnhelp.org.

Gail

per h wrote:

>

> Hi there,

> I may have posted about this in the past so forgive me, but its such

> a big issue.

>

> I would like to know if adverse reactions to probiotics are something

> that is often experienced by people with CFS.

>

> People with CFS are often recommended probiotics as part of a regimen

> or when doing antibiotics.

>

> I have tried many brands during the years in the hope of good benefit

> but I have always ended up with the same disturbing results.

>

> Does anybody else suffer from extreme irritability and aggressiveness

> when taking probiotics or is it just me?

>

> A headache, a rash, joint pain, whatever physical symptom, Im sure I

> could handle it, but not this...this emotional havoc that always

> is related to probiotic intake is a mystery to me, and I have not

> received a good explanation from any doctor.

>

> I dont want to experiment on myself, I would like to know if anybody

> else experience this.

>

> Again, mainly emotional symptoms like extreme irritability and

> extreme aggression, have the urge to smash things. (I must add that I

> am normally a calm person and do not have issues like these)

>

> I have had some physical symptoms too like joint pain, circulatory

> issues, etc but its the emotional ones who are problematic.

>

> And it is related to intake, so no need to question this thanks..

>

> Input appreciated.

>

> Per

>

>

************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

[Guest guest]

Hi Per, I'm also wondering if you're playing with the probiotic dosage

using the same brand, esp since you mentioned your reactions being

proportionate to dosage. And like others have mentioned, there are

other ways of going about restoring gut health. Supplemental

probiotics are valuable but not the only way to do it.

Good luck with it, hope you get feeling better.

[Guest guest]

> I would like to know if adverse reactions to probiotics are something

> that is often experienced by people with CFS.

I had many problems with many varieties of probiotics. I ended up

finding one that I could take half the pill. (Friendly Trio that I got

at GNC). It actually helped heal some gastrointestinal issues that

were secondary. I owe alot of relief to that product.

In my personal opinion if it makes you feel really bad... stop. Its

not going to cure you of CFIDS or ME or CFS.

I have been sick for a loooonng time and I finally realized that many

of these supplements I was taking on doctors recommendations were

actually making my quality of life worse. I was trying anything I

could looking for the magic bullet that would tilt the balance toward

good health. I spent a ridiculous amount of money on supplements.

Keep in mind that many probiotics we take are most likely dead in the

pill so your putting in bacterial particles into your system. That

would possibly stimulate your cytokines or disturb your already

disturbed bodily balance.

In a word of caution. I had a bad reaction to whey protein but the

docs kept saying stick with it. Well, after extended antibiotics and

procrit I was about 70% recovered for about 6 months but I really

believe the whey protein reaction pushed me back into a 2 year major

relapse. My body just didnt like it but the doctors pushed me to stick

with it...that it was just die off but it wasn't. We often just know

things about our bodies and we need to trust what our bodies are

telling us. Unless that science is extremely solid then I would

suggest listening to your body.

I kept hearing the " its normal.. its die off " and that was about

everything I would take. In most situations I would say... what you

are taking is not that powerful to create that kind of die off that

fast. They put all sorts of things in pills that could be upsetting

your homostatis.

I figured out a particular sugar that was added to stimulate bacterial

growth that that include in many probiotics was the culprit for me.

[Guest guest]

Using DMSA via the suppository route bypasses the yeast problem, which

is very common.

> > >

> > >

> > > Hi,

> > > Thanks for the response. Yea Ive been thinking of herxheimer

too, but

> > > im not sure.

> > >

> > > The severity is proportional to the level of intake. So lowering

dose

> > > helps but I still have problems with it at almost any level.

> > >

> > > I have tried caprylic acid and grapeseed extract without

problems and

> > > Ive had some benefit from them.

> > > Also I have tried antibiotics and anti-yeast medication and they

dont

> > > give these symptoms.

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>