Re: Does fatigue, but no pain, indicate underlying viral infection(s)?

[Guest guest]

Were you sudden or gradual onset? Swollen lymph nodes?

>

> Hi all--

> I came across this info online last night in " From

> Fatigued to Fantastic Newsletter Vol. 3, No. 3

> (2000)--Vol 4, No. 1 (2001) " . This is new to me, and

> I'm wondering if it corresponds with your own

> experiences. I have always felt that I'm not the

> " classic " CFIDS patient-my main complaint is

> debilitating fatigue--I don't have pain or brain fog.

> I do test positve for HHV-6 and CMV, as well as

> Mycoplasma Pneumoniae and tend towards low body temp.

> Any thoughts welcome. Thanks.

>

> 1. Those with predominantly flu-like symptoms with

> debilitating fatigue and little or no pain or fever

> are more likely to have an underlying persistent viral

> infection (e.g., HHV-6, Epstein Barr, CMV, etc.).

> 2. Those with fevers (i.e., anything over 98.6°F in

> this illness - even 99°) and/or lung congestion,

> sinusitis, skin pustules or other chronic bacterial

> infections seem more likely to have infections (i.e.,

> bacterial, Mycoplasma, or Chlamydia) that respond to

> special antibiotics. Let's look at these two groups

> and how to approach them.

>

> Jen

>

>

>

>

______________________________________________________________________

______________Take the Internet to Go: Go puts the Internet in

your pocket: mail, news, photos & more.

> http://mobile./go?refer=1GNXIC

>

[Guest guest]

More or less sudden onset--two " flus " within a couple

of months...recovered partially from the first, then

the second hit with aching (but not really swollen)

glands that have never completely gone away in 16

years, also dizziness, nausea, sore throat and low

grade fever at the beginning.

--- j mascis <mascis_j@...> wrote:

> Were you sudden or gradual onset? Swollen lymph

> nodes?

>

>

> >

> > Hi all--

> > I came across this info online last night in " From

> > Fatigued to Fantastic Newsletter Vol. 3, No. 3

> > (2000)--Vol 4, No. 1 (2001) " . This is new to me,

> and

> > I'm wondering if it corresponds with your own

> > experiences. I have always felt that I'm not the

> > " classic " CFIDS patient-my main complaint is

> > debilitating fatigue--I don't have pain or brain

> fog.

> > I do test positve for HHV-6 and CMV, as well as

> > Mycoplasma Pneumoniae and tend towards low body

> temp.

> > Any thoughts welcome. Thanks.

> >

> > 1. Those with predominantly flu-like symptoms with

> > debilitating fatigue and little or no pain or

> fever

> > are more likely to have an underlying persistent

> viral

> > infection (e.g., HHV-6, Epstein Barr, CMV, etc.).

> > 2. Those with fevers (i.e., anything over 98.6°F

> in

> > this illness - even 99°) and/or lung congestion,

> > sinusitis, skin pustules or other chronic

> bacterial

> > infections seem more likely to have infections

> (i.e.,

> > bacterial, Mycoplasma, or Chlamydia) that respond

> to

> > special antibiotics. Let's look at these two

> groups

> > and how to approach them.

> >

> > Jen

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

______________________________________________________________________

> ______________Take the Internet to Go: Go puts

> the Internet in

> your pocket: mail, news, photos & more.

> > http://mobile./go?refer=1GNXIC

> >

>

>

>

________________________________________________________________________________\

____Need a vacation? Get great deals

to amazing places on Travel.

http://travel./

[Guest guest]

http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/2/6/741817/MontoyaRevised.pdf

> > >

> > > Hi all--

> > > I came across this info online last night in " From

> > > Fatigued to Fantastic Newsletter Vol. 3, No. 3

> > > (2000)--Vol 4, No. 1 (2001) " . This is new to me,

> > and

> > > I'm wondering if it corresponds with your own

> > > experiences. I have always felt that I'm not the

> > > " classic " CFIDS patient-my main complaint is

> > > debilitating fatigue--I don't have pain or brain

> > fog.

> > > I do test positve for HHV-6 and CMV, as well as

> > > Mycoplasma Pneumoniae and tend towards low body

> > temp.

> > > Any thoughts welcome. Thanks.

> > >

> > > 1. Those with predominantly flu-like symptoms with

> > > debilitating fatigue and little or no pain or

> > fever

> > > are more likely to have an underlying persistent

> > viral

> > > infection (e.g., HHV-6, Epstein Barr, CMV, etc.).

> > > 2. Those with fevers (i.e., anything over 98.6°F

> > in

> > > this illness - even 99°) and/or lung congestion,

> > > sinusitis, skin pustules or other chronic

> > bacterial

> > > infections seem more likely to have infections

> > (i.e.,

> > > bacterial, Mycoplasma, or Chlamydia) that respond

> > to

> > > special antibiotics. Let's look at these two

> > groups

> > > and how to approach them.

> > >

> > > Jen

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

______________________________________________________________________

> > ______________Take the Internet to Go: Go puts

> > the Internet in

> > your pocket: mail, news, photos & more.

> > > http://mobile./go?refer=1GNXIC

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

______________________________________________________________________

______________Need a vacation? Get great deals

> to amazing places on Travel.

> http://travel./

>

[Guest guest]

Might as well make it complete.

http://vicd.info/

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2007-01/sumc-ntf010807.php

http://med.stanford.edu/news_releases/2007/january/montoya.html

> > > >

> > > > Hi all--

> > > > I came across this info online last night in " From

> > > > Fatigued to Fantastic Newsletter Vol. 3, No. 3

> > > > (2000)--Vol 4, No. 1 (2001) " . This is new to me,

> > > and

> > > > I'm wondering if it corresponds with your own

> > > > experiences. I have always felt that I'm not the

> > > > " classic " CFIDS patient-my main complaint is

> > > > debilitating fatigue--I don't have pain or brain

> > > fog.

> > > > I do test positve for HHV-6 and CMV, as well as

> > > > Mycoplasma Pneumoniae and tend towards low body

> > > temp.

> > > > Any thoughts welcome. Thanks.

> > > >

> > > > 1. Those with predominantly flu-like symptoms with

> > > > debilitating fatigue and little or no pain or

> > > fever

> > > > are more likely to have an underlying persistent

> > > viral

> > > > infection (e.g., HHV-6, Epstein Barr, CMV, etc.).

> > > > 2. Those with fevers (i.e., anything over 98.6°F

> > > in

> > > > this illness - even 99°) and/or lung congestion,

> > > > sinusitis, skin pustules or other chronic

> > > bacterial

> > > > infections seem more likely to have infections

> > > (i.e.,

> > > > bacterial, Mycoplasma, or Chlamydia) that respond

> > > to

> > > > special antibiotics. Let's look at these two

> > > groups

> > > > and how to approach them.

> > > >

> > > > Jen

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

______________________________________________________________________

> > > ______________Take the Internet to Go: Go puts

> > > the Internet in

> > > your pocket: mail, news, photos & more.

> > > > http://mobile./go?refer=1GNXIC

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

______________________________________________________________________

> ______________Need a vacation? Get great deals

> > to amazing places on Travel.

> > http://travel./

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks, j mascis....I appreciate the links, and your

time. I've read most of it before, but the vicd.info

was new. I guess it's a spin off Montoya's work. I

was particularly interested, though, in the link

between no pain and probable underlying viral

infection, as stated by the Teitelbaum quote I

originally posted. Are there people on this list who

have pain, but have benefited from treating viruses?

Or is it really typical that those with no pain are

more likely to have the viral issues. I guess I'm

just looking for further " proof " that anti-viral is

the way to go for me ; )

Thanks,

Jen

--- j mascis <mascis_j@...> wrote:

> Might as well make it complete.

>

> http://vicd.info/

>

>

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2007-01/sumc-ntf010807.php

>

http://med.stanford.edu/news_releases/2007/january/montoya.html

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

It's here! Your new message!

Get new email alerts with the free Toolbar.

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[Guest guest]

From what I've heard, it's mostly about onset type, at least for

Valcyte. Suddens respond to it, graduals don't. Pain is secondary

seeming to me, because I used to have pain in my hips and shoulders

(mostly hips) and someone on this list told me that avoiding soybean

products helped them with theirs(pain), and since I've cut out

soybean stuff my pain is negligable, when it used to almost get to

the point where I would almost consider going on pain meds, simply

because it hardly ever stopped, even if it only got really badly

painful every once in a while.

Sudden onset, swollen lymph nodes, sore throat= Valcyte time!

At least it would for me if I was sudden instead of gradual.

>

> > Might as well make it complete.

> >

> > http://vicd.info/

> >

> >

> http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2007-01/sumc-ntf010807.php

> >

> http://med.stanford.edu/news_releases/2007/january/montoya.html

>

>

>

>

>

______________________________________________________________________

______________

> It's here! Your new message!

> Get new email alerts with the free Toolbar.

> http://tools.search./toolbar/features/mail/

>

[Guest guest]

Valcyte is the only known oral antiviral drug that works against both

HHV-6 and EBV. And if it's the only known drug that works against

both of these herpes viruses, it might also be working against a

virus that isn't being measured, because it might be as of yet

unknown. What virus do you know about that reduces people to a

lifetime of what we go through?

from vicd.info-

" The planned study will utilize a more comprehensive evaluation of

the functional status of subjects, using established and validated

instruments. The resulting data from the trial will help to elucidate

the possible role of EBV, HHV-6 (or a yet to be known virus) and/or

an altered immune system as possible triggers for CFS. "

>

> Hi all--

> I came across this info online last night in " From

> Fatigued to Fantastic Newsletter Vol. 3, No. 3

> (2000)--Vol 4, No. 1 (2001) " . This is new to me, and

> I'm wondering if it corresponds with your own

> experiences. I have always felt that I'm not the

> " classic " CFIDS patient-my main complaint is

> debilitating fatigue--I don't have pain or brain fog.

> I do test positve for HHV-6 and CMV, as well as

> Mycoplasma Pneumoniae and tend towards low body temp.

> Any thoughts welcome. Thanks.

>

> 1. Those with predominantly flu-like symptoms with

> debilitating fatigue and little or no pain or fever

> are more likely to have an underlying persistent viral

> infection (e.g., HHV-6, Epstein Barr, CMV, etc.).

> 2. Those with fevers (i.e., anything over 98.6°F in

> this illness - even 99°) and/or lung congestion,

> sinusitis, skin pustules or other chronic bacterial

> infections seem more likely to have infections (i.e.,

> bacterial, Mycoplasma, or Chlamydia) that respond to

> special antibiotics. Let's look at these two groups

> and how to approach them.

>

> Jen

>

>

>

>

______________________________________________________________________

______________Take the Internet to Go: Go puts the Internet in

your pocket: mail, news, photos & more.

> http://mobile./go?refer=1GNXIC

>

[Guest guest]

I have all the infections including the pain. I would have to go in both

groups. My pain definitely increases when the viral titers go up.

Gail

J P wrote:

>

> Hi all--

> I came across this info online last night in " From

> Fatigued to Fantastic Newsletter Vol. 3, No. 3

> (2000)--Vol 4, No. 1 (2001) " . This is new to me, and

> I'm wondering if it corresponds with your own

> experiences. I have always felt that I'm not the

> " classic " CFIDS patient-my main complaint is

> debilitating fatigue--I don't have pain or brain fog.

> I do test positve for HHV-6 and CMV, as well as

> Mycoplasma Pneumoniae and tend towards low body temp.

> Any thoughts welcome. Thanks.

>

> 1. Those with predominantly flu-like symptoms with

> debilitating fatigue and little or no pain or fever

> are more likely to have an underlying persistent viral

> infection (e.g., HHV-6, Epstein Barr, CMV, etc.).

> 2. Those with fevers (i.e., anything over 98.6°F in

> this illness - even 99°) and/or lung congestion,

> sinusitis, skin pustules or other chronic bacterial

> infections seem more likely to have infections (i.e.,

> bacterial, Mycoplasma, or Chlamydia) that respond to

> special antibiotics. Let’s look at these two groups

> and how to approach them.

>

> Jen

>

> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _Take

> the Internet to Go: Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail,

> news, photos & more.

> http://mobile. / go?refer= 1GNXIC

> <http://mobile./go?refer=1GNXIC>

>

>

[Guest guest]

When you get the flu don't you hurt all over. That's how I feel when my

viruses reactivate. I hurt all over.. I know it is the virus as I

respond well to increasing Famvir.

Gail

J P wrote:

>

> Thanks, j mascis....I appreciate the links, and your

> time. I've read most of it before, but the vicd.info

> was new. I guess it's a spin off Montoya's work. I

> was particularly interested, though, in the link

> between no pain and probable underlying viral

> infection, as stated by the Teitelbaum quote I

> originally posted. Are there people on this list who

> have pain, but have benefited from treating viruses?

> Or is it really typical that those with no pain are

> more likely to have the viral issues. I guess I'm

> just looking for further " proof " that anti-viral is

> the way to go for me ; )

>

> Thanks,

> Jen

> --- j mascis <mascis_j@... <mailto:mascis_j%40>> wrote:

>

> > Might as well make it complete.

> >

> > http://vicd.info/ <http://vicd.info/>

> >

> >

> http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2007-01/sumc-ntf010807.php

> <http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2007-01/sumc-ntf010807.php>

> >

> http://med.stanford.edu/news_releases/2007/january/montoya.html

> <http://med.stanford.edu/news_releases/2007/january/montoya.html>

>

> __________________________________________________________

> It's here! Your new message!

> Get new email alerts with the free Toolbar.

> http://tools.search./toolbar/features/mail/

> <http://tools.search./toolbar/features/mail/>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Jen,

I started off as type 1 (with an acute viral onset) and then type 2 developed in

addition to that.

For the viral side I'm use Imunivor, Lysine and I'm trying folinic acid. For the

infections

(sinus, skin pustules) I use a Grossan Irrigator for the sinus and tea-tree for

the skin probems.

After a road traffic accident I developed FM type painful trigger points. Before

that pain was the

mild (in comparism) all-over flu like pain, that went with the sore throats,

glands etc. Then

there was the pain of M.E. post exertional malaise that occured after exercise.

Kindest regards,

Annette

___________________________________________________________

Answers - Got a question? Someone out there knows the answer. Try it

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[Guest guest]

Annette,

could you please tell me why you take folinic acid as an anti-viral? Maybe I am

not aware of its properties, but I am curious if it really works as anti-viral.

Do you have some sources where I can read this?

Thanks a lot for your help.

Massimo

Re: Does fatigue, but no pain, indicate

underlying viral infection(s)?

Hi Jen,

I started off as type 1 (with an acute viral onset) and then type 2 developed

in addition to that.

For the viral side I'm use Imunivor, Lysine and I'm trying folinic acid. For

the infections

(sinus, skin pustules) I use a Grossan Irrigator for the sinus and tea-tree

for the skin probems.

After a road traffic accident I developed FM type painful trigger points.

Before that pain was the

mild (in comparism) all-over flu like pain, that went with the sore throats,

glands etc. Then

there was the pain of M.E. post exertional malaise that occured after

exercise.

Kindest regards,

Annette

__________________________________________________________

Answers - Got a question? Someone out there knows the answer. Try it

now.

http://uk.answers./

[Guest guest]

Well, I imagine like everything else it depends on the individual...

but my own experience is that when I get the flu, I do hurt all over.

And the die-off reaction I got the first week on Zithromax felt a lot

like that.

Marcia on

in Salem, Massachusetts

>

> When you get the flu don't you hurt all over. That's how I feel when my

> viruses reactivate. I hurt all over.. I know it is the virus as I

> respond well to increasing Famvir.

> Gail

[Guest guest]

Yep, both groups for me too (but not the body pain). Last fall I

tested positive for EBV, cytomegalovirus, candida (yeast), Borrelia

(Lyme), and mycoplasma pneumoniae. Epstein-Barr virus and

cytomegalovirus are, well, viruses. Borrelia and mycoplasma are

bacteria (albeit both rather odd sorts). Candida's in another class.

So trying to categorize it by " virus or bacteria " doesn't work in my

case.

And the fact that my system is overloaded with SO MANY opportunistic

infections leads me to believe that the problem is not the infections

per se, but underlying problems with my immune system. This doesn't

mean I won't take antibiotics to help knock back the infections, but I

think antibiotics alone won't solve the problem.

And that leads me to why I started on the Yasko protocol a month or so

ago. It seems like a way to address the underlying problem, and even

if it isn't a cure, the detox aspect by itself can't help but help.

Marcia on

in Salem, Massachusetts

> >

> > Hi all--

> > I came across this info online last night in " From

> > Fatigued to Fantastic Newsletter Vol. 3, No. 3

> > (2000)--Vol 4, No. 1 (2001) " . This is new to me, and

> > I'm wondering if it corresponds with your own

> > experiences. I have always felt that I'm not the

> > " classic " CFIDS patient-my main complaint is

> > debilitating fatigue--I don't have pain or brain fog.

> > I do test positve for HHV-6 and CMV, as well as

> > Mycoplasma Pneumoniae and tend towards low body temp.

> > Any thoughts welcome. Thanks.

> >

> > 1. Those with predominantly flu-like symptoms with

> > debilitating fatigue and little or no pain or fever

> > are more likely to have an underlying persistent viral

> > infection (e.g., HHV-6, Epstein Barr, CMV, etc.).

> > 2. Those with fevers (i.e., anything over 98.6°F in

> > this illness - even 99°) and/or lung congestion,

> > sinusitis, skin pustules or other chronic bacterial

> > infections seem more likely to have infections (i.e.,

> > bacterial, Mycoplasma, or Chlamydia) that respond to

> > special antibiotics. Let's look at these two groups

> > and how to approach them.

> >

> > Jen

> >

> > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _Take

> > the Internet to Go: Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail,

> > news, photos & more.

> > http://mobile. / go?refer= 1GNXIC

> > <http://mobile./go?refer=1GNXIC>

> >

> >

>