Re: The Lie That Autism Is Ancient/

July 19, 2006

Reading back over some older posts here....

, would you conclude then, personally speaking, that autism is

genetically carried and triggered or worsened by environment? I'm leaning that

way but I know that many find this an unpopular stance.

I have a sister who is ADD and her kids are incredibly ADHD. My daughters

have some ADD/ADHD traits but are not as severe. My other nephew is out and out

autistic. He is younger than the other two (niece and nephew) and therefore got

more shots (notably the Hep B at birth and the flu shots but others as well).

Plus the combination of our family's genes with his father's could have made the

difference.

What I hate to hear from friends is that " we don't have that in our family " .

Well, we didn't realize we had it our family either and BAM! it hit my sister's

child hard.

Just curious to hear your point of view on the whole genetics vs. environment

issue of autism.

Sheri B.

---------------------------------

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July 19, 2006

Personally, I don't think that there is enough genuine

knowledge about genetics to determine that certain

illnesses are purely genetic. I'd rather look at the

amount of poisoning any ancestors have been subjected

to, which has been passed on through to the younger

generations, but of course that's very difficult to

trace.

I wonder, though. Army personnel has always been

subjected to vaccines far more than any other group,

so do autistic children have fathers/grandfathers/

great-grandfathers with an army history?

claudia

--- " Sheri B. " <tallchick1966@...> wrote:

> Reading back over some older posts here....

>

> , would you conclude then, personally

> speaking, that autism is genetically carried and

> triggered or worsened by environment? I'm leaning

> that way but I know that many find this an unpopular

> stance.

>

> I have a sister who is ADD and her kids are

> incredibly ADHD. My daughters have some ADD/ADHD

> traits but are not as severe. My other nephew is

> out and out autistic. He is younger than the other

> two (niece and nephew) and therefore got more shots

> (notably the Hep B at birth and the flu shots but

> others as well). Plus the combination of our

> family's genes with his father's could have made the

> difference.

>

> What I hate to hear from friends is that " we don't

> have that in our family " . Well, we didn't realize

> we had it our family either and BAM! it hit my

> sister's child hard.

>

> Just curious to hear your point of view on the

> whole genetics vs. environment issue of autism.

>

> Sheri B.

>

> ---------------------------------

> Talk is cheap. Use Messenger to make

> PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at

1ï¿½/min.

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

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__________________________________________________

July 19, 2006

> , would you conclude then, personally speaking, that autism is

genetically carried >and triggered or worsened by environment? I'm leaning

that way but I know that many find >this an unpopular stance.

Well, as my puts it (age nine) 'Dad gave me the autism gene and Mum

gave me the trigger gene!'

We have no proof but that is the conclusion that he has come to from

watching all the documentaries that we do! One of the side effects on home

education!

I personally do feel that there is a genetic predisposition, that is

triggered by an environmental stimulus. I also know that there is more than

one

kind of autism. Some is late onset, some is there from birth.

Interestingly, we are reading the adult novel 'Sophie's World' at the

moment. It is about the history of philosophy, as told by a philosopher to a

14

year old girl.

and I had commented that many of the philosophers, from ancient times

to the Romantic era, all of whom were men, had very rigid ways of thinking,

and would fit the Asperger's model of thinking. Then further on in the book

Sophie remarks that all these men had a strange way of thinking and were not

really part of the world, as they didn't think about the realities of love,

children and tackling day to day life! It was a classic example of male/female

brain differences that Simon Baron-Cohan talks about!

But there is also another factor that may come into it. Nils Bergman was

doing research into kangaroo care, and found that babies that are left to cry

and are not kept with their mothers immediately after birth end up with brains

that develop differently. The area affected is the amygdala, and area of

the brain implicated in autism!

After his presentation (it was aimed at breastfeeding counsellors but was an

adaptation of the presentation he gives to paediatricians) I went up to him

and said that this threw new light on autism. He had many others around him

so all he could do was smile that knowing smile, nod his head vigorously and

say, 'YES!'

And yet there is very little research going on in this direction mainly

because western culture is so hell bent on making these little babies

'independent' and getting them away from their mothers! Bergman says all

babies should

be kangaroo cared for for their first year! That wouldn't fit well with our

governments on both sides of the Atlantic which want mothers back to work

ASAP and babies left in nurseries.

So as the experts say, there are many paths to autism.

added:

>I wonder, though. Army personnel has always been

>subjected to vaccines far more than any other group,

>so do autistic children have fathers/grandfathers/

>great-grandfathers with an army history?

It is entirely possible that genetic deviation happened many generations ago

and that has been passed on. I think that is what is called evolution! If

it wasn't for this male way of thinking society wouldn't have progressed the

way it did. If we hadn't had Einstein we wouldn't have

had...hmmmmmm....atomic bombs? Maybe the autism gene wasn't such a good idea!

;>)

But then we wouldn't have had a lot of other advances in society like

computers, and we wouldn't be sharing this information with each other either.

To

quote Tony Attwood, 'Computers were invented by aspies for the benefit of

aspies!'

Cheers,

- who is not an expert but has just found out that she is a

philosopher!

July 20, 2006

Hi Anita,

>Though my autistic 5-yr-old son wasn't left to cry, he was separated from

me on his 3rd day >right after my milk let down and then for several more days

because of an infection that >landed me in the hospital. This

breastfeeding/separation trauma is often minimised, but I >KNOW he was terribly

affected

and began to withdraw soon after. He is a very affectionate >child, I think,

because of resuming breastfeeding and giving him the " kangaro care " he

>deserved when I was well enough return home to him; unfortunately, not soon

enough.

too wasn't left to cry. However, the midwife on duty didn't want me

sleeping with him (unlike the midwife on his first night) and took him to the

office to give me a chance to sleep. I have not idea if he was left to cry, I

didn't hear much crying, but it is possible that after I fell asleep he did.

But after that night he was always with me.

> To be fair though, unlike many other autistic children we know, Henry is

not defensive to >touch, but craves deep pressure making hugging, squeezing

and kissing (in small doses) >very pleasurable to him.

is like this too. At least he is now! he did go through a very

defensive stage. I have always said that I am sure he would have been a lot

more

'autistic' if I hadn't breastfed him and carried him around with me and had

him sleeping with me.

> I know this sounds strange, but for this type of neurological damage vs

the other, I am very >grateful. I would agree there many paths to many

different varieties of autism.

Yes, and vaccination may be one of them. But vaccination isn't going to

cause all of them.

I think that vaccination at best doesn't work, and at worst damages the

person, but I wish sometimes that people realised that there is more to autism

than vaccination.

Cheers,

July 21, 2006

Jenn, you are having an incredibly profound week. I can't handle all these

pearls of wisdom so close together. :oD Slow down girl!!

Sue xx

> I think that vaccination at best doesn't work, and at worst damages the

> person, but I wish sometimes that people realised that there is

> more to autism

> than vaccination.

>

> Cheers,

>

July 21, 2006

,

May I ask how old is and when you discovered something was different

about him?

Anita

cyberbarn9@... wrote:

Hi Anita,

too wasn't left to cry. However, the midwife on duty didn't want me

sleeping with him (unlike the midwife on his first night) and took him to the

office to give me a chance to sleep. I have not idea if he was left to cry, I

didn't hear much crying, but it is possible that after I fell asleep he did.

But after that night he was always with me.

> To be fair though, unlike many other autistic children we know, Henry is

not defensive to >touch, but craves deep pressure making hugging, squeezing

and kissing (in small doses) >very pleasurable to him.

is like this too. At least he is now! he did go through a very

defensive stage. I have always said that I am sure he would have been a lot more

'autistic' if I hadn't breastfed him and carried him around with me and had

him sleeping with me.

Cheers,

---------------------------------

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July 21, 2006

>,

>

> May I ask how old is and when you discovered something was different

about him?

>

> Anita

Hi Anita,

is now 9 1/2 and a bit.

When did I notice that he was different? Well, in the antinatel classes he

and one other foetus was always kicking and bouncing around! When we did the

relaxation time he would be kicking away and I would end up in fits of

giggles with the other mum with an active baby! Interestingly, that baby was a

girl and is gifted. I have lost touch so I don't know if she is also on the

spectrum. BTW by pregnancy was very stressful.

He was a baby that reached milestones early. He was rolling over by four

months, sitting by five, and crawled on the week before he was six months. He

was up on his feet a couple of weeks later, but didn't let go of my hand till

he was one! He spoke early, with his first word being No! That should have

prepared me for the oppositional side of things! When he was around a year

I mentioned to a friend that he wasn't making much eye contact. I mentioned

it to the wrong friend because her nephew was profoundly autistic so she of

course said that was fine. Well, he was fine compared to a Kanner's

child!

By two we were counting sentences not words, and he was definitely a high

needs baby. He started dropping sleeps at six months, and by a year he wasn't

regularly sleep in the day. By the time he was three I finally accepted that

he was Spirited as in Sheedy K. My LLL Leader kept trying to get me to

read the book but I was in denial still. Loads of sensory issues we had

come to live with by then. Like his hate of clothing! Still, made toilet

training easy. he discovered all about peeing very early on!

Then when he was four for some reason I suddenly blurted out to my Leader

that I wondered if has Asperger's. I really don't know what made me say

it as it wasn't something that I had been thinking about, She looked so

relieved! She took me aside and told me that she had felt that for quite some

time, and would I like to speak to the mum that makes the coffee as she is a

volunteer with the local Autism group!

I then read, read, and read some more, went to see Tony Attwood speak at a

conference, and finally felt really relieved that I now had a reason for

's behaviour; I wasn't a bad parent after all!

He did have his first three lots of vaccinations, which were a lot less than

what babies get now. But he didn't have any particular reaction. He was

never an ill baby, except for one bout of Bronchiolitis when he first went to

nursery (one half day a week) just younger than one year. Other than that he

has only had the usual childhood illnesses, and they have been brief. He has

a restrictive diet, but it is well balanced and there is no evidence of bowl

disorder. Change in diet never resulted in change in behaviour, but staying

home did. That was when we realised that it was sensory issues that created

the problems, not diet.

Interestingly, although red sweets made him hyper, it also improved his

communication skills and eye contact!

By the time he was a year old I had read up on vaccination and he hasn't had

any since, and hasn't been to the doctor for years.

He was breastfed until he was 6 1/2 by which time he had lost the ability to

suck. I put down his constant breastfeeding (it was his main source of

nutrition until he was about four!) for both keeping him healthy, and allowing

me

to connect with him. When he had huge meltdowns (we are talking hours here,

not minutes) the only thing that would bring him back to earth was 'mum mum'

as he called it.

Sorry, I went on a bit there! I must sit down and write a book about it

some day, when I have time!

HTH,

Cheers,

July 22, 2006

Not at all , I wish I could write more descriptively; I tend to be too

brief and to the point. Thanks you for sharing 's story with us. Is he on

some sort of sensory diet other than food restrictions? He has so many wonderful

skills, it's a shame he is driven to behaviors because of sensory discomfort,

though I'm sure there are other contributors.