Re: MMR and autism in Finland

[Guest guest]

Do they use thimerisol in Finland? Often mercury damage sets the stage for the

downward spiral that often occurs after the MMR, though I'm sure that's not

always the case.

Anita

Ingrid Schebesch <ingrid_schebesch@...> wrote:

I was listening to the radio today and they had a GP talking about the Measles

outbreaks in the UK.

This GP said that in Finland there has not been a single case of autism since

MMR? This can't be true, it seemed to me.

Does anyone have any info about MMR and autism rates in Finland, I am just

curious?

Of course the GP on the radio did not provide any evidence for her claims or any

references.

Ingrid

[Guest guest]

My bet would be they're just calling autism something else. That happens alot

so they can have power over the numbers... just rename the condition and

voila... no more " autism. "

Kay

Ingrid Schebesch <ingrid_schebesch@...> wrote:

I was listening to the radio today and they had a GP talking about the Measles

outbreaks in the UK.

This GP said that in Finland there has not been a single case of autism since

MMR? This can't be true, it seemed to me.

Does anyone have any info about MMR and autism rates in Finland, I am just

curious?

Of course the GP on the radio did not provide any evidence for her claims or any

references.

Ingrid

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Maybe they're calling it SUBACUTE SCLEROSING PANENCEPHALITIS....what Dr. Carley

claims it really is.

Anita

Kay Philpot <kay8889@...> wrote:

My bet would be they're just calling autism something else. That happens alot

so they can have power over the numbers... just rename the condition and

voila... no more " autism. "

Kay

Ingrid Schebesch <ingrid_schebesch@...> wrote:

I was listening to the radio today and they had a GP talking about the Measles

outbreaks in the UK.

This GP said that in Finland there has not been a single case of autism since

MMR? This can't be true, it seemed to me.

Does anyone have any info about MMR and autism rates in Finland, I am just

curious?

Of course the GP on the radio did not provide any evidence for her claims or any

references.

Ingrid

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Yes, that could very well be, Anita. That's exactly what I'm talking about.

They can CALL it anything they want, but it doesn't change the fact that

children are being damaged by vaccines. I find it VERY hard to believe that

vaccines are harmless in Finland while the rest of the world suffers greatly

from their effects! LOL

Kay

Anita Durney <mydurney@...> wrote:

Maybe they're calling it SUBACUTE SCLEROSING PANENCEPHALITIS....what Dr.

Carley claims it really is.

Anita

---------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

Thank you Kay and others. I agree with you, this is very well possible.

These kind of radio and TV programmes, run by the BBC (who are supposed to be

INDEPENDENT!!!!) do more propaganda than anything else!

I am just watching a programme about asthma and they admit that there is truly

an epidemic of this but of course, no mention of the true causes.

If they mentioned all true causes for these kind of problems and cot deaths

after vaccination, the world would wake up.

I am so glad I found out in time, I have saved us so much trouble and grief.

Thanks all for being on this list and getting the message out.

Ingrid

Kay Philpot <kay8889@...> wrote: My bet would be they're just calling

autism something else. That happens alot so they can have power over the

numbers... just rename the condition and voila... no more " autism. "

Kay

Ingrid Schebesch <ingrid_schebesch@...> wrote:

I was listening to the radio today and they had a GP talking about the

Measles outbreaks in the UK.

This GP said that in Finland there has not been a single case of autism since

MMR? This can't be true, it seemed to me.

Does anyone have any info about MMR and autism rates in Finland, I am just

curious?

Of course the GP on the radio did not provide any evidence for her claims or

any references.

Ingrid

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

----- Original Message -----

From: " Ingrid Schebesch " <ingrid_schebesch@...>

>I was listening to the radio today and they had a GP talking about the

>Measles outbreaks in the UK.

> This GP said that in Finland there has not been a single case of autism

> since MMR? This can't be true, it seemed to me.

Hi

I'm a homeopath living in Helsinki, Finland.

I just want to comment shortly, not being much of an expert of statistical

evidence,

but I hope these few lines provide some sustenance for your quest for

information.

Since 1982 MMR is given to our children, in two doses, at 14-18 months and

at six years .

Autism as such is not indeed very largely debated here. There are more

issues going on

about ADHD/ADD, Tourette, Aspergers etc. Classifying, categorizing,

namelabeling -

that's very important here, when it comes to illness and diseases.

Well, where isn't it, in allopathic world?

General vaccination prevalence in Finland is very high, possibly the highest

in Europe.

No wonder, that we have the highest outcome of IDDM in Europe, and even

numbers in NIDDM ( mostly adults ) are rising speedily.

With children they only assume it to be due to the lazy nature of

contemporary youth;

lack of excercise and too much Cola drinks and fatty chips or like. And like

wise

with grown-ups too.

As far as I'm informed, doctors are very reluctant to report adverse

reactions, which

should be done to the National Public Health Institut. The reluctancy comes

by the

strong belief that vaccines are but good and when something negative pops up

along is

definitely not done by the vaccine but the child just happens to have this

or that

infection, or what ever, they'll come up with something, but the parent is

never right.

The parents should be the ones to have the time and energy to get the

reports going

to the NPHI (because the MDs are not that cooperative ), but who has that

when

the kid is all red, swollen and screaming ...

NPHI is the one who is also the spokesman for higher vaccine prevalence, so

I guess

the information about adverse reactions is not taken so highly, they

constantly undermine

the adverse reactions in their publications, where isn't medical profession

doing that?

Well, don't want to rant all night long here, but as somebody stated here

today,

presumably they undermine the reactions they see and put a label on it in a

manner

it doesn't smear the glow of vaccines they seem to glorify so much here,

too.

I know there are some Finnish activists on the list who certainly have more

accurate

information, but I just had to let some steam out : )

Regards,

Will

[Guest guest]

what?? no autism in Finland?? If that is the case, then every autism

researcher in the world needs to be studying this . . . .

When was the MMR introduced in Finland?

MMR and autism in Finland

> I was listening to the radio today and they had a GP talking about the

Measles outbreaks in the UK.

> This GP said that in Finland there has not been a single case of autism

since MMR? This can't be true, it seemed to me.

>

> Does anyone have any info about MMR and autism rates in Finland, I am just

curious?

> Of course the GP on the radio did not provide any evidence for her claims

or any references.

> Ingrid

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Good question/point Anita-- Any people from Finland on this list?

Re: MMR and autism in Finland

Do they use thimerisol in Finland? Often mercury damage sets the stage for

the downward spiral that often occurs after the MMR, though I'm sure that's

not always the case.

Anita

Ingrid Schebesch <ingrid_schebesch@...> wrote:

I was listening to the radio today and they had a GP talking about the

Measles outbreaks in the UK.

This GP said that in Finland there has not been a single case of autism

since MMR? This can't be true, it seemed to me.

Does anyone have any info about MMR and autism rates in Finland, I am just

curious?

Of course the GP on the radio did not provide any evidence for her claims or

any references.

Ingrid

[Guest guest]

Hi Will,

this is very interesting and sheds a lot of light on my original question.

Autism is a spectrum, as far as I know and the conditions you mention definetly

fall into this spectrum.

In a way I am glad then that I live in the UK where the original autism study by

Wakefield was done. It has made me research the whole thing to great length.

Here in the UK they do the same, blame parents and life style for everything to

draw attention away from what really goes on.

I know to a degree parents and life style play a part but they don't make a

child develop ADD, aspergers or autistim.

Thank you very much for your reply, it is great to hear from someone from

Finland, makes a nice change.

Ingrid

[Guest guest]

Thanks so much for your input, Will. I didn't realize we had any members from

Finland here. That's great!

Kay

yerewan <yerewan@...> wrote:

----- Original Message -----

I'm a homeopath living in Helsinki, Finland.

I just want to comment shortly, not being much of an expert of statistical

evidence,

but I hope these few lines provide some sustenance for your quest for

information.

Since 1982 MMR is given to our children, in two doses, at 14-18 months and

at six years .

Autism as such is not indeed very largely debated here. There are more

issues going on

about ADHD/ADD, Tourette, Aspergers etc. Classifying, categorizing,

namelabeling -

that's very important here, when it comes to illness and diseases.

Well, where isn't it, in allopathic world?

General vaccination prevalence in Finland is very high, possibly the highest

in Europe.

No wonder, that we have the highest outcome of IDDM in Europe, and even

numbers in NIDDM ( mostly adults ) are rising speedily.

With children they only assume it to be due to the lazy nature of

contemporary youth;

lack of excercise and too much Cola drinks and fatty chips or like. And like

wise

with grown-ups too.

As far as I'm informed, doctors are very reluctant to report adverse

reactions, which

should be done to the National Public Health Institut. The reluctancy comes

by the

strong belief that vaccines are but good and when something negative pops up

along is

definitely not done by the vaccine but the child just happens to have this

or that

infection, or what ever, they'll come up with something, but the parent is

never right.

The parents should be the ones to have the time and energy to get the

reports going

to the NPHI (because the MDs are not that cooperative ), but who has that

when

the kid is all red, swollen and screaming ...

NPHI is the one who is also the spokesman for higher vaccine prevalence, so

I guess

the information about adverse reactions is not taken so highly, they

constantly undermine

the adverse reactions in their publications, where isn't medical profession

doing that?

Well, don't want to rant all night long here, but as somebody stated here

today,

presumably they undermine the reactions they see and put a label on it in a

manner

it doesn't smear the glow of vaccines they seem to glorify so much here,

too.

I know there are some Finnish activists on the list who certainly have more

accurate

information, but I just had to let some steam out : )

Regards,

Will

---------------------------------

New Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save big.

[Guest guest]

http://www.whale.to/a/yazbak.html - here are some answers to start with.

Google " autism, Finland " and there are numerous pages of references.

This lady needs to do some homework before making such sweeping statements.

Who was that with? Vine?

Sue

> MMR and autism in Finland

>

>

> I was listening to the radio today and they had a GP talking

> about the Measles outbreaks in the UK.

> This GP said that in Finland there has not been a single case of

> autism since MMR? This can't be true, it seemed to me.

>

> Does anyone have any info about MMR and autism rates in Finland,

> I am just curious?

> Of course the GP on the radio did not provide any evidence for

> her claims or any references.

> Ingrid

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Sue, you keep in touch so well with the UK, it is lovely to see this.

Yes, it was Vine, except he his on holiday at the moment and someone else

is doing the show at them moment. But yes, this man had Jarvis on his show

and she is like any GP, will not come off her high horse...

Thank you very much for your links.

Ingrid

mum2mishka <mum2mishka@...> wrote: http://www.whale.to/a/yazbak.html

- here are some answers to start with.

Google " autism, Finland " and there are numerous pages of references.

This lady needs to do some homework before making such sweeping statements.

Who was that with? Vine?

Sue

[Guest guest]

He, he, not hard, Ingrid. I always used to enjoy his show on Radio

2 - always thought-provoking and I think he has emerged as one of

the more enlightened of radio interviewers. Not as illuminated as

he could be but he's there to be educated!! ;o)

I miss Radio 2, to be honest. I love Australia, but I have yet to

find an Australian radio station that " floats my boat " . I suppose I

could continue to listen with the aid of the internet. But it all

seems too much like hard work. I don't get time to listen in the

evenings - too busy on my chat lists! )

Sue

http://www.whale.to/a/yazbak.html - here are some answers to start

with.

> Google " autism, Finland " and there are numerous pages of

references.

>

> This lady needs to do some homework before making such sweeping

statements.

> Who was that with? Vine?

>

> Sue

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I am not sure if he is enlightened or not, he often has vaccine or alternative

med. isuues, or breastfeeding and vegetarian/vegan diets.

He has no clue about vaccine dangers or the benefits of extended bf nor about

proper vegan diets (I am not vegan or vegetarian, just know a lot about them as

my best friend is one).

But I think generally most radio presenters don't know enough about vaccines

issues when having guests on their show, they don't do their research properly

and even if they did, they would not be allowed to say what they really think.

This applies to the BBC anyway.

Once a mother phoned in, when they were talking about vaccination again, and

was trying to tell Jarvis how many children actually die as a result of

vaccination compared to the number that die from Measles etc. in the UK. She was

silenced and taken off air very, very quickly...

But yes, I like him nonetheless as he often challenges his guests when it comes

to political issues. Have a look on the BBC website where you can listen again

to the programmes...

Ingrid

Sue <mum2mishka@...> wrote: He, he, not hard, Ingrid. I always used

to enjoy his show on Radio

2 - always thought-provoking and I think he has emerged as one of

the more enlightened of radio interviewers. Not as illuminated as

he could be but he's there to be educated!! ;o)

I miss Radio 2, to be honest. I love Australia, but I have yet to

find an Australian radio station that " floats my boat " . I suppose I

could continue to listen with the aid of the internet. But it all

seems too much like hard work. I don't get time to listen in the

evenings - too busy on my chat lists! )

Sue