Re: Mycoplasma and chlamydia!! False negatives...!!!

[Guest guest]

> All of a sudden, he tested positive to mycoplasma.

In '99, Garth Nicolson told me about one patient who tested negative

five times before finally getting a positive PCR for mycoplasma

fermentans.

He said that mycoplasma have a simultaneity of shedding activity

through quorum communication, and that antibiotics or even some herbs

like olive leaf extract are capable of driving them dormant for long

periods, in which they are undetectable. So timing can mean

everything in these tests.

It's amazing to think that years ago, a number of us who were trying

to alert the medical community to the emergence of this phenomenon

made it as high as Congressional level - and were heard - yet the

world still remains asleep and oblivious, like passengers on the

Titanic who simply refused to believe the ship was really in trouble

until the water was up to their own necks.

-

[Guest guest]

One thought. Someone on here mentioned that antibiotics are immune modulators,

and we know that parts of our immune system are upregulated.. so that could

explain why people feel better on abx.

Massimo <maxupolo@...> wrote:

Dear friends,

I wanted to let you know something very weird that I saw happening

to a fellow patient at De Meirleir's clinic.

He was visited the first time at the clinic on June 2000. By that

time he had been very ill, very fatigued, the Rnase LMW was high at

6,9 (normal < 0,5). No other bacterias or viruses were found during

the first round of exams at that time.

He was then tested two more times but each time with the same

results. All the PCRs were negative for bacterias and viruses.

But then, he was already responding very well to antibiotics, for

reasons that even Prof. De Meirleir did not know how to explain, as

he could not explain why he tried him on antibiotics without a

visible reason showing in the lab tests.

All of a sudden, he tested positive to mycoplasma. When asked if he

could have been infected later on over the years, Dr. De Meirleir

said that probably not, it was already there when the therapy

started and it came out over time, maybe thanks to the antibiotic

therapy.

This seems to me what a said concerning the use of Zithromax for

5 days before the Igenex test for Lyme disease in order to detect it

in the urine.

But at the same time, it leaves me spechless... I was desperate that

apparently I could not find a single infection to blame for my CFS,

and now this theory and these facts say that I could have it active

but not visible in my blood exams...

What should one do then, try treatments before lab tests?

I don't know what to think really...

Hugs for everybody.

Massimo

---------------------------------

Check out the all-new beta - Fire up a more powerful email and get

things done faster.

[Guest guest]

No, the immune system is not upregulated, is messed-up. That's

different. NK cells are low in many patients, in others they are

normal, in some others there are CD4+ lower than normal, in some

others are ok.

There is not a common denominator in our immune systems apart from

the fact that they don't respond as they should.

Massimo

> Dear friends,

>

> I wanted to let you know something very weird that I saw happening

> to a fellow patient at De Meirleir's clinic.

>

> He was visited the first time at the clinic on June 2000. By that

> time he had been very ill, very fatigued, the Rnase LMW was high

at

> 6,9 (normal < 0,5). No other bacterias or viruses were found

during

> the first round of exams at that time.

>

> He was then tested two more times but each time with the same

> results. All the PCRs were negative for bacterias and viruses.

>

> But then, he was already responding very well to antibiotics, for

> reasons that even Prof. De Meirleir did not know how to explain,

as

> he could not explain why he tried him on antibiotics without a

> visible reason showing in the lab tests.

>

> All of a sudden, he tested positive to mycoplasma. When asked if

he

> could have been infected later on over the years, Dr. De Meirleir

> said that probably not, it was already there when the therapy

> started and it came out over time, maybe thanks to the antibiotic

> therapy.

>

> This seems to me what a said concerning the use of Zithromax

for

> 5 days before the Igenex test for Lyme disease in order to detect

it

> in the urine.

>

> But at the same time, it leaves me spechless... I was desperate

that

> apparently I could not find a single infection to blame for my

CFS,

> and now this theory and these facts say that I could have it

active

> but not visible in my blood exams...

>

> What should one do then, try treatments before lab tests?

>

> I don't know what to think really...

>

> Hugs for everybody.

>

> Massimo

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Check out the all-new beta - Fire up a more powerful

email and get things done faster.

>

>

[Guest guest]

louella monrovia <lmonrovia@...> wrote:

>

> One thought. Someone on here mentioned that antibiotics are immune

modulators, and we know that parts of our immune system are

upregulated.. so that could explain why people feel better on abx.

>

Yes indeed.

Doxycycline Hyclate is marketed as an " IMPACs " drug:

An Inhibitor of Multiple Proteases And Cytokines " .

And is known for lowering MMP9 which helps to restrict inflammation at

the Basal Cell Membrane. COL-3 IMPACs even have their antimicrobial

properties completely removed.

http://rosacea.ii.net/news/2005/08/col-3-new-tetracycline-

derivative.html

-

[Guest guest]

" Massimo " <maxupolo@...> wrote:

>

> No, the immune system is not upregulated, is messed-up. That's

> different. NK cells are low in many patients, in others they are

> normal, in some others there are CD4+ lower than normal, in some

> others are ok.

>

> There is not a common denominator in our immune systems apart from

> the fact that they don't respond as they should.

>

> Massimo

Messed up for sure, but the antiviral pathway is upregulated while

the NK Cells are not only low, but even the ones still floating

around aren't doing what they normally do in the presence of an

antigen: Low AND Low Function.

Which is something I find really fascinating in light of an old

study that showed NK Cells completely lose their orientation after a

single exposure to JP-8 Jet Fuel. Even worse, these confused and

aimless NK Cells could be removed and placed in blood containing

normally active NK Cells, and, wouldn't you know it?

The darn NK Cells in the " never-exposed " blood started acting just

as confused as the ones with direct JP-8 exposure.

Who-da-thunk-it?

Once the immune assault had been removed, the genetic " switch " had

been flipped, the cells seem to have the ability to transfer this

information without any trace of the original problem.

I thought that a study like this was absolutely staggering in its

import, yet it just seems to have met with an " Oh, Whatever! " type of

response and hit the trash can.

-

[Guest guest]

Not always .

Infact, for example, my ratio of the LMW Rnase L is correct at 0,4

but I have the Rnase L activated; a friend of mine has the ratio

completely our of the limit at 6,7 but she has no activation of the

Rnase L.

Cheers,

Massimo

P.S. Remember to explain to me the mold issue, I am very interested.

> >

> > No, the immune system is not upregulated, is messed-up. That's

> > different. NK cells are low in many patients, in others they are

> > normal, in some others there are CD4+ lower than normal, in some

> > others are ok.

> >

> > There is not a common denominator in our immune systems apart

from

> > the fact that they don't respond as they should.

> >

> > Massimo

>

>

> Messed up for sure, but the antiviral pathway is upregulated

while

> the NK Cells are not only low, but even the ones still floating

> around aren't doing what they normally do in the presence of an

> antigen: Low AND Low Function.

> Which is something I find really fascinating in light of an old

> study that showed NK Cells completely lose their orientation after

a

> single exposure to JP-8 Jet Fuel. Even worse, these confused and

> aimless NK Cells could be removed and placed in blood containing

> normally active NK Cells, and, wouldn't you know it?

> The darn NK Cells in the " never-exposed " blood started acting

just

> as confused as the ones with direct JP-8 exposure.

> Who-da-thunk-it?

>

> Once the immune assault had been removed, the genetic " switch "

had

> been flipped, the cells seem to have the ability to transfer this

> information without any trace of the original problem.

> I thought that a study like this was absolutely staggering in its

> import, yet it just seems to have met with an " Oh, Whatever! " type

of

> response and hit the trash can.

> -

>

[Guest guest]

" Massimo " <maxupolo@...> wrote:

>

> Not always .

>

> Infact, for example, my ratio of the LMW Rnase L is correct at 0,4

> but I have the Rnase L activated; a friend of mine has the ratio

> completely our of the limit at 6,7 but she has no activation of the

> Rnase L.

> Massimo

> P.S. Remember to explain to me the mold issue, I am very interested.

Wouldn't that indicate your friends Rnase L is now depleted since

the abnormal 37kDa is associated with elevated apoptosis/severity,

while your activation of Rnase L hasn't yet shifted the ratio from

the 80kDa?

This group isn't much interested in the mold-thing, so it might be

better to discuss it here, as not to be a distraction.

CFS_CFIDS_ME/

-

[Guest guest]

,

I have a question. Can you tell from the data you mention whether the

doxy ( and minocycline does the same thing in RA) is reducing

inflammation or is it killing intracellular bacteria which then

reduces inflammation?

a Carnes

>

> Yes indeed.

> Doxycycline Hyclate is marketed as an " IMPACs " drug:

> An Inhibitor of Multiple Proteases And Cytokines " .

> And is known for lowering MMP9 which helps to restrict inflammation

at

> the Basal Cell Membrane. COL-3 IMPACs even have their antimicrobial

> properties completely removed.

>

> http://rosacea.ii.net/news/2005/08/col-3-new-tetracycline-

> derivative.html

>

> -

>

[Guest guest]

, I saw a similar bizarre study when the bacteria were killed

then placed in mice. The killed bacteria could not be treated by

antibiotics and the mice were very sick.

As to the jet fuel, here is another one of my dumb questions. Do you

think a lot of us got sick after plane trips because of being briefly

exposed to jet fuel and not the contaminated dirty air on airplanes?

a Carnes

>

> " Massimo " <maxupolo@> wrote:

> >

> > No, the immune system is not upregulated, is messed-up. That's

> > different. NK cells are low in many patients, in others they are

> > normal, in some others there are CD4+ lower than normal, in some

> > others are ok.

> >

> > There is not a common denominator in our immune systems apart

from

> > the fact that they don't respond as they should.

> >

> > Massimo

>

>

> Messed up for sure, but the antiviral pathway is upregulated while

> the NK Cells are not only low, but even the ones still floating

> around aren't doing what they normally do in the presence of an

> antigen: Low AND Low Function.

> Which is something I find really fascinating in light of an old

> study that showed NK Cells completely lose their orientation after

a

> single exposure to JP-8 Jet Fuel. Even worse, these confused and

> aimless NK Cells could be removed and placed in blood containing

> normally active NK Cells, and, wouldn't you know it?

> The darn NK Cells in the " never-exposed " blood started acting just

> as confused as the ones with direct JP-8 exposure.

> Who-da-thunk-it?

>

> Once the immune assault had been removed, the genetic " switch " had

> been flipped, the cells seem to have the ability to transfer this

> information without any trace of the original problem.

> I thought that a study like this was absolutely staggering in its

> import, yet it just seems to have met with an " Oh, Whatever! " type

of

> response and hit the trash can.

> -

>

[Guest guest]

" pjeanneus " <pj7@...> wrote:

>

> ,

> I have a question. Can you tell from the data you mention whether the

doxy ( and minocycline does the same thing in RA) is reducing

inflammation or is it killing intracellular bacteria which then

reduces inflammation?

>

> a Carnes

The COL-3 IMPACS drug " Metastat " derived from Doxycycline has had

antimicriobial properties removed, so I suppose if there is any

benefit - it isn't from killing intracellular bacteria.

-

[Guest guest]

" pjeanneus " <pj7@...> wrote:

>

> , I saw a similar bizarre study when the bacteria were killed

> then placed in mice. The killed bacteria could not be treated by

> antibiotics and the mice were very sick.

> As to the jet fuel, here is another one of my dumb questions. Do

you think a lot of us got sick after plane trips because of being

briefly exposed to jet fuel and not the contaminated dirty air on

airplanes?

> a Carnes

JP8 is a special military jet fuel with an additive to lower the

flash point so the fuel tanks can absorb more battle damage and allow

more time to evacuate the craft in the event of fire.

That's why I find the peculiar location of several leukemia

epidemics around military airbases to be of some slight interest.

If people at lower levels of exposure elsewhere could possibly still

have confused leucocytes, perhaps at an occult " subclinical " level

that doesn't directly result in an identifiable epidemic, might it

not be possible that symptoms/eventual-illness would be very broad

and non-specific?

So one would never know why or where the immune system " lost its

way " ?

-

[Guest guest]

Why am I not surprised - more confounding and confusing. Do you think

living near Nellis Airforce Base is a problem? And we thought setting

off atomic bombs in the desert was a problem.

a C.

>

> " pjeanneus " <pj7@> wrote:

> >

> > , I saw a similar bizarre study when the bacteria were killed

> > then placed in mice. The killed bacteria could not be treated by

> > antibiotics and the mice were very sick.

>

> > As to the jet fuel, here is another one of my dumb questions. Do

> you think a lot of us got sick after plane trips because of being

> briefly exposed to jet fuel and not the contaminated dirty air on

> airplanes?

> > a Carnes

>

>

> JP8 is a special military jet fuel with an additive to lower the

> flash point so the fuel tanks can absorb more battle damage and

allow

> more time to evacuate the craft in the event of fire.

> That's why I find the peculiar location of several leukemia

> epidemics around military airbases to be of some slight interest.

>

> If people at lower levels of exposure elsewhere could possibly

still

> have confused leucocytes, perhaps at an occult " subclinical " level

> that doesn't directly result in an identifiable epidemic, might it

> not be possible that symptoms/eventual-illness would be very broad

> and non-specific?

> So one would never know why or where the immune system " lost its

> way " ?

> -

>

[Guest guest]

Hum, okay, but then the diflucan isn't really killing borrelia except

by stopping it reproducing, aka blocking the P450 pathway. Who knows

what any of these antibiotics are really doing.

This stuff is over my head.

a C.

>

> " pjeanneus " <pj7@> wrote:

> >

> > ,

> > I have a question. Can you tell from the data you mention whether

the

> doxy ( and minocycline does the same thing in RA) is reducing

> inflammation or is it killing intracellular bacteria which then

> reduces inflammation?

> >

> > a Carnes

>

>

> The COL-3 IMPACS drug " Metastat " derived from Doxycycline has had

> antimicriobial properties removed, so I suppose if there is any

> benefit - it isn't from killing intracellular bacteria.

> -

>

[Guest guest]

It could be doing other things. For instance, if you agree that much

of current lyme was bioengineered, with mycotoxins engineered into it

that it sheds, then you can see that you would have, given your

genetics, fungal issues that are severe, downstream of lyme (like I

do). This could include sensitivities to fungus (genetically

determined) and inability to fight fungus (anergy to fungus created by

constant shedding of mycotoxins). In that case, diflucan might be

helpful. Maybe it inhibits enough p450 to weaken lyme but given the

idea that lyme is able to go into cyst and granule form, people should

theoretically relapse after a time. I like Dr. Schardt and think he is

onto something for some folks (some respond well, others not much).

Perhaps however his pencillin period is too short and too low. You

need 6-10 grams or more of amoxicillin to make it into the nervous

system in sufficient amounts. 3 grams is kind of a minimal dose where

lyme is concerned. In addition, 2 weeks is so short that I don't

understand the purpose. I guess he figures it's a kind of one-two

punch, weaken the bacteria then kill them. Even so, just 3 rounds and

you're well--it's all very mysterious. Again, unless you start

pondering the mycotoxin connection.

> > >

> > > ,

> > > I have a question. Can you tell from the data you mention whether

> the

> > doxy ( and minocycline does the same thing in RA) is reducing

> > inflammation or is it killing intracellular bacteria which then

> > reduces inflammation?

> > >

> > > a Carnes

> >

> >

> > The COL-3 IMPACS drug " Metastat " derived from Doxycycline has had

> > antimicriobial properties removed, so I suppose if there is any

> > benefit - it isn't from killing intracellular bacteria.

> > -

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Jill,

Since Diflucan and Tinidazole are two of the most effective

treatments I have taken for Lyme disease, your comments are very

interesting to me. Can you give me some references or URL's for

articles on the bioengineered Lyme? I know that there was quite a bit

of experimentation with prisoners in the Houston area using

experimental pathogens.

I am grateful to you for shining some much needed light on the

Diflucan treatment for Lyme.

Best wishes,

Vickie

> > > >

> > > > ,

> > > > I have a question. Can you tell from the data you mention

whether

> > the

> > > doxy ( and minocycline does the same thing in RA) is reducing

> > > inflammation or is it killing intracellular bacteria which

then

> > > reduces inflammation?

> > > >

> > > > a Carnes

> > >

> > >

> > > The COL-3 IMPACS drug " Metastat " derived from Doxycycline has

had

> > > antimicriobial properties removed, so I suppose if there is any

> > > benefit - it isn't from killing intracellular bacteria.

> > > -

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Vicki,

Read " Lab 257 " . You can pick one up quite cheaply on Amazon.

Vickie <vickie_violets@...> wrote:

Hi Jill,

Since Diflucan and Tinidazole are two of the most effective

treatments I have taken for Lyme disease, your comments are very

interesting to me. Can you give me some references or URL's for

articles on the bioengineered Lyme? I know that there was quite a bit

of experimentation with prisoners in the Houston area using

experimental pathogens.

I am grateful to you for shining some much needed light on the

Diflucan treatment for Lyme.

Best wishes,

Vickie

> > > >

> > > > ,

> > > > I have a question. Can you tell from the data you mention

whether

> > the

> > > doxy ( and minocycline does the same thing in RA) is reducing

> > > inflammation or is it killing intracellular bacteria which

then

> > > reduces inflammation?

> > > >

> > > > a Carnes

> > >

> > >

> > > The COL-3 IMPACS drug " Metastat " derived from Doxycycline has

had

> > > antimicriobial properties removed, so I suppose if there is any

> > > benefit - it isn't from killing intracellular bacteria.

> > > -

> > >

> >

>