Re: Other evidence supporting GSH Depletion--methylation cycle block hypothesis

[Guest guest]

Is The Puzzle of Autism the best single source of information on the

program? Do you think that Dr. Amy will write a book, focused on

CFS, in the future?

THANK YOU!!!>

> Hi all.

>

> I want to mention some more evidence that suggests that this

> hypothesis is relevant to CFS.

>

> Carnitine--There are a number of studies showing that this is low

in

> CFS, and that supplementing it helps some. Carnitine requires

> methylation for its synthesis, so a deficit in methylation capacity

> would explain the low carnitine in CFS.

>

> Coenzyme Q10--Two studies have found that supplementing this is

also

> helpful in CFS. Co Q10 also requires methylation for its

synthesis.

> Again, a methylation deficit would explain low Co Q10.

>

> Vitamin B12--Regland et al. gave hydroxocobalamin shots (1000

> micrograms) weekly to 10 female PWCs who had low B12 and high

> homocysteine in their spinal fluid. They found that the ones who

did

> not have an MTHFR polymorphism were helped more by the B12,

> presumably because their methionine synthase operation was not

> hindered by a shortage of 5-methyltetrahydrofolate in addition to a

> shortage of B12. All of this implicates the methylation cycle in

the

> pathogenesis of CFS.

>

> Folinic acid--There's a new study (Lundell et al., 2006) showing

that

> 81% of 58 CFS patients experienced subjective improvement of

symptoms

> after taking folinic acid. This again implicates the methylation

> cycle, which is intimately linked to the folate cycle at methionine

> synthase.

>

> The evidence seems to keep piling up.

>

> Rich

>

[Guest guest]

I have not started any methylation cycle stuff, but am about ready to

consider it, as I finished some major projects. Thursday at my

doctor's office a woman was getting the Kane protocol--IV phosphatidyl

choline/glutathione in a push. I asked why. She said, " I have autism. "

I asked if it was Asperger's (she seemed very high functioning) and

she said yes. I asked if she was working on her methylation cycle and

she said yes, years ago she had figured out her blood tests were off

and had contacted a top expert at a university hospital here who is

now dead, who called her to come in the next day, and put her on

leucovorin (folinic acid). She said, it traced a line of fire down her

throat and lit up her brain (interesting description) and she knew she

was on the right track. She sees Dr Feingold in Westchester, who is

now a DAN! style doc. I know Dr. Feingold from my hyperbaric days, I

didn't get to know her well, but she is probably a competent DAN! doc.

(The doctor I was seeing for hyperbaric, Dr Kopelson, has since

retired. I liked him a lot). In any case, this woman said her neuro

and immune symptoms are so improved she may go back to work. She has

been at this for years however. She used to get frequent infections.

She said, " All that went away. "

I still think that designer pathogens like lyme, which have mycotoxins

and create fungal issues/sensitivities for some of us, are hard to

deal with, period. So I think that combining methylation adjuncts with

anti-bacterial and anti-fungal substances and immune boosters is wise.

I should also add that for a few weeks, I was without my 2.5 grams of

IVIG that I get weekly (it was delayed) and I entirely skipped my IV

vitamin/mineral/glutathione last week, so I was without that for two

weeks. I noticed a huge and horrible difference. Probably the

combination of vitamins, minerals like magnesium, glutathione chaser &

the IVIG all together are synergistic. But anyway, since I usually get

a glutathione chaser every week, it was only after skipping for two

weeks that I could feel the difference when the glutathione went into

the IV bag. I had that " glad " feeling in my body's cells that I

initially had when I first was getting it. Although the presumption is

that IV glutathione is quickly used up and doesn't get into the cells,

I have to disagree with this by my clinical experience. I feel my

whole body respond to it, and it must fix something for more than just

an hour. In addition, although I am CBS upregulated and supposedly

this IV glutathione would add to toxic sulfur metabolites, I find it

really useful and important for me and don't notice bad side effects.

Not sure what to say about that in terms of theory. Sometimes clinical

experience counts.

One of my concerns however *is* that the methylation cycle supplements

all have fillers. I am very sensitive to fillers. They alone can make

me sick. There seems to be absolutely no way to get compounded pure

versions of folapro or bh4.

>

> Hi all.

>

> I want to mention some more evidence that suggests that this

> hypothesis is relevant to CFS.

>

> Carnitine--There are a number of studies showing that this is low in

> CFS, and that supplementing it helps some. Carnitine requires

> methylation for its synthesis, so a deficit in methylation capacity

> would explain the low carnitine in CFS.

>

> Coenzyme Q10--Two studies have found that supplementing this is also

> helpful in CFS. Co Q10 also requires methylation for its synthesis.

> Again, a methylation deficit would explain low Co Q10.

>

> Vitamin B12--Regland et al. gave hydroxocobalamin shots (1000

> micrograms) weekly to 10 female PWCs who had low B12 and high

> homocysteine in their spinal fluid. They found that the ones who did

> not have an MTHFR polymorphism were helped more by the B12,

> presumably because their methionine synthase operation was not

> hindered by a shortage of 5-methyltetrahydrofolate in addition to a

> shortage of B12. All of this implicates the methylation cycle in the

> pathogenesis of CFS.

>

> Folinic acid--There's a new study (Lundell et al., 2006) showing that

> 81% of 58 CFS patients experienced subjective improvement of symptoms

> after taking folinic acid. This again implicates the methylation

> cycle, which is intimately linked to the folate cycle at methionine

> synthase.

>

> The evidence seems to keep piling up.

>

> Rich

>

[Guest guest]

Hello...Rich, or Jill,

This may be a stupid question, but what is the difference between BH4

and Bio Thyro, which I see some have used for BH4? the cost

difference? Also, what are the symptoms of a CBS upregulation, etc.,

which indicates the need for BH4?

TIA

>

> Hi all.

>

> I want to mention some more evidence that suggests that this

> hypothesis is relevant to CFS.

>

> Carnitine--There are a number of studies showing that this is low

in

> CFS, and that supplementing it helps some. Carnitine requires

> methylation for its synthesis, so a deficit in methylation capacity

> would explain the low carnitine in CFS.

>

> Coenzyme Q10--Two studies have found that supplementing this is

also

> helpful in CFS. Co Q10 also requires methylation for its

synthesis.

> Again, a methylation deficit would explain low Co Q10.

>

> Vitamin B12--Regland et al. gave hydroxocobalamin shots (1000

> micrograms) weekly to 10 female PWCs who had low B12 and high

> homocysteine in their spinal fluid. They found that the ones who

did

> not have an MTHFR polymorphism were helped more by the B12,

> presumably because their methionine synthase operation was not

> hindered by a shortage of 5-methyltetrahydrofolate in addition to a

> shortage of B12. All of this implicates the methylation cycle in

the

> pathogenesis of CFS.

>

> Folinic acid--There's a new study (Lundell et al., 2006) showing

that

> 81% of 58 CFS patients experienced subjective improvement of

symptoms

> after taking folinic acid. This again implicates the methylation

> cycle, which is intimately linked to the folate cycle at methionine

> synthase.

>

> The evidence seems to keep piling up.

>

> Rich

>

[Guest guest]

> >

> > Hi all.

> >

> > I want to mention some more evidence that suggests that this

> > hypothesis is relevant to CFS.

> >

> > Carnitine--There are a number of studies showing that this is low

in

> > CFS, and that supplementing it helps some. Carnitine requires

> > methylation for its synthesis, so a deficit in methylation

capacity

> > would explain the low carnitine in CFS.

> >

> > Coenzyme Q10--Two studies have found that supplementing this is

also

> > helpful in CFS. Co Q10 also requires methylation for its

synthesis.

> > Again, a methylation deficit would explain low Co Q10.

> >

> > Vitamin B12--Regland et al. gave hydroxocobalamin shots (1000

> > micrograms) weekly to 10 female PWCs who had low B12 and high

> > homocysteine in their spinal fluid. They found that the ones who

did

> > not have an MTHFR polymorphism were helped more by the B12,

> > presumably because their methionine synthase operation was not

> > hindered by a shortage of 5-methyltetrahydrofolate in addition to

a

> > shortage of B12. All of this implicates the methylation cycle in

the

> > pathogenesis of CFS.

> >

> > Folinic acid--There's a new study (Lundell et al., 2006) showing

that

> > 81% of 58 CFS patients experienced subjective improvement of

symptoms

> > after taking folinic acid. This again implicates the methylation

> > cycle, which is intimately linked to the folate cycle at

methionine

> > synthase.

> >

> > The evidence seems to keep piling up.

> >

> > Rich

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi,

There are several sources of BH4. Royal jelly provides a very low dose (plus

amino acids), BioThyro provides a medium dose (plus other stuff), and the

prescription BH4 provides a high dose (and no other stuff). So which one you use

depends on how much you need and whether you want the other stuff in that source

(the other things in BioThyro can cause problems for people). Prescription BH4

is the most expensive, although since you use a fraction of the pill, can

actually be the least expensive. The only way to really know if you have a CBS

up-regulation is to do the genetic test--symptoms and labs are variable. CBS is

just one leg of the BH4 stool--your need for BH4 will depend on CBS status,

MTHFR status, and bacterial load.

Oh, I just realized this is the Experimental list. Sorry if this is too much

Yasko info for this list. If you have more questions, you should probably come

over to the Yasko list where we are supposed to discuss these things.

Trina

lifelonglearner79 <lifelonglearner79@...> wrote:

Hello...Rich, or Jill,

This may be a stupid question, but what is the difference between BH4

and Bio Thyro, which I see some have used for BH4? the cost

difference? Also, what are the symptoms of a CBS upregulation, etc.,

which indicates the need for BH4?

TIA

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