Re: Warning: Before Taking hawthorn

[Guest guest]

Thank you for posting this. I can't do the research right now and

I do know I have the SOD snp - so this is good info to have.

I am so frustrated in the moment as my DVD wont play the Dr.

Cheney DVDs. (nor any others not comercially made). Of course I

didn't know enough to check this out before I bought the machine.

I wish the lecture had been offered on tape.

As the work of Dr. Cheney, Rich and others evolve I come to

realize more and more that I need a doc well versed in all this

material. (Which doesn't seem to be available in this area). It is

complex and I am punting.

Can someone give me the name of the contact person and the e-

mail address I can write to regarding the DVD?

Thank you very much.

>

> Make sure you understand what Cheney had to say in his video

> regarding the order of using inducers for catalase and SOD.

>

> Make sure you understand what his diagram shows would happen if

things

> are not done in the right (according to Cheney) order.

>

> I think this may be important to understand.

>

> It is your health so I will let you do the research. My

> interpretration could be flawed, thus I will not give it, and

> avoid misleading anyone.

>

[Guest guest]

Mr. Raba-I would love to hear your interpretation-everyone should

know that all opinions are just that, opinions, and they can make up

their own mind what to do. I couldn't get my second DVD to work

just at that time Hawthorn was being discussed so I would like info.

, I think you can get the CHeney DVDs on tape. I misplaced my

order form, but I will the address to you especially if you

back channel me, unless others need it too.

Mike C

> >

> > Make sure you understand what Cheney had to say in his video

> > regarding the order of using inducers for catalase and SOD.

> >

> > Make sure you understand what his diagram shows would happen if

> things

> > are not done in the right (according to Cheney) order.

> >

> > I think this may be important to understand.

> >

> > It is your health so I will let you do the research. My

> > interpretration could be flawed, thus I will not give it, and

> > avoid misleading anyone.

[Guest guest]

I don't understand what you actually mean and unfortunately you don't

tell us either. My concentration is bad enough so why do you hold back

your opinion? You should tell us what exactly you mean because people

can still make up their own minds after they heard what you say. There

are enough people her who are able to discuss about it. However if you

don't tell us your opinion there won't be the necessary discussion.

>

> Make sure you understand what Cheney had to say in his video

> regarding the order of using inducers for catalase and SOD.

>

> Make sure you understand what his diagram shows would happen if

things

> are not done in the right (according to Cheney) order.

>

> I think this may be important to understand.

>

> It is your health so I will let you do the research. My

> interpretration could be flawed, thus I will not give it, and

> avoid misleading anyone.

>

[Guest guest]

> >

> > Make sure you understand what Cheney had to say in his video

> > regarding the order of using inducers for catalase and SOD.

> >

> > Make sure you understand what his diagram shows would happen if

> things

> > are not done in the right (according to Cheney) order.

> >

> > I think this may be important to understand.

> >

> > It is your health so I will let you do the research. My

> > interpretration could be flawed, thus I will not give it, and

> > avoid misleading anyone.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I apologize for the late reply. I also apologize for not having

stated my opinion. Just not sure of its correctnes, and did not

want

to lead fellow PWC stray based on my opinion.

So I will state now what my opinion (more a concern is) with the

understanding that we need expert clarification. And that this is

justa concern from a fellow PWC who does not understand the whole

picture (or close).

Doctor Cheney shows a diagram where he (in my interpretation) shows

that bad things might happen if SOD is increased and there is

nothing to take things farther down to water. He names this

something like " phanthom chemistry " . The black pathway in his chart.

In another slide he states the order of treatment in which catalase

inducers come first (the last link in the process of getting rid of

the bad guys), the last thing in his sequence of treatment is SOD

inducers. To me this is like saying make sure that the end is not

plugged up before you turn the pressure on the hose at the beginning

(SOD inducers).

So I want to try hawthorn, actually I did, but I am concerned that I

might be doing things in the wrong order. Meaning that I may be

making myself feel better at the expense of creating a lot " phantom

chremistry " . How would I know if that is happening if I feel great?

I do not know of a a red flag that would tell me I am harming

myself. If he is correct in believing that CFIDS is a defense

mechanism, I do not want to override that mechanism in my ignorance,

feel great for a while and then end up needing a heart transplant or

worse.

Again, my apologies for just saying find out and make up your own

mind. It stems from my desire not to lead people stray with poor

understanding. At the same time, I think that this might be very

important, so I felt I would be irresponsible not to tell my fellow

PWC that this need to be paid attention to.

So , you are right. An opininon is just an opinion, and the above

is not even that. Just concern, that I do not know if we could be

harming ourselves (or not) by starting with hawthorn (last element

in Cheney's order of things). I believe that I understood that slide

on the chemical processes well enough to realize that doing things

wrong can be harmful.

I felt great on hawthorn, like a miracle herb. Then not so great.

Then, I realize that Cheney is putting ii last. So I stopped! But I

want to get back to it. The thing is , how does Cheney himself

would know if he is unclugging the end of the pipe fast enough not

to be creating that " phantom chemistry " he warns about?

How can I know that I am increasing catalase sufficiently? With

other other herbs that is, since I do not know if anyone else who

would give the intradermal kutrapressin shot?

> >

> > Make sure you understand what Cheney had to say in his video

> > regarding the order of using inducers for catalase and SOD.

> >

> > Make sure you understand what his diagram shows would happen if

> things

> > are not done in the right (according to Cheney) order.

> >

> > I think this may be important to understand.

> >

> > It is your health so I will let you do the research. My

> > interpretration could be flawed, thus I will not give it, and

> > avoid misleading anyone.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Following is my interpretation. It's been a while sionce I watched

the DVD but this is what I took away.

I believe Cheney is saying " Fenton Reaction " . Information which seems

relevant, found through googling, at

http://www.jbc.org/cgi/content/abstract/268/1/416 .

Happens when Hydrogen peroxide (H2O2) is sprioduced from Superoxide (SO) by

Superoxide Dismutase (SOD), but then accumulates instead of being

further processed, and reacts with iron (Fe).

Part of one chain that gets rid of the H2O2 is glutathione, whihc can

be suppressed by SO (and therefore *conceivably* enhanced by SOD).

Addtionally, there are supplements that claim to enhance catalase

(along with SOD), another path that gets rid of H2O2

On 12/27/06, mrraba <mrraba@...> wrote:

> Doctor Cheney shows a diagram where he (in my interpretation) shows

> that bad things might happen if SOD is increased and there is

> nothing to take things farther down to water. He names this

> something like " phanthom chemistry " . The black pathway in his chart.

>

> In another slide he states the order of treatment in which catalase

> inducers come first (the last link in the process of getting rid of

> the bad guys), the last thing in his sequence of treatment is SOD

> inducers. To me this is like saying make sure that the end is not

> plugged up before you turn the pressure on the hose at the beginning

> (SOD inducers).

>

> So I want to try hawthorn, actually I did, but I am concerned that I

> might be doing things in the wrong order. Meaning that I may be

> making myself feel better at the expense of creating a lot " phantom

> chremistry " . How would I know if that is happening if I feel great?

>

> I do not know of a a red flag that would tell me I am harming

> myself. If he is correct in believing that CFIDS is a defense

> mechanism, I do not want to override that mechanism in my ignorance,

> feel great for a while and then end up needing a heart transplant or

> worse.

>

> Again, my apologies for just saying find out and make up your own

> mind. It stems from my desire not to lead people stray with poor

> understanding. At the same time, I think that this might be very

> important, so I felt I would be irresponsible not to tell my fellow

> PWC that this need to be paid attention to.

>

> So , you are right. An opininon is just an opinion, and the above

> is not even that. Just concern, that I do not know if we could be

> harming ourselves (or not) by starting with hawthorn (last element

> in Cheney's order of things). I believe that I understood that slide

> on the chemical processes well enough to realize that doing things

> wrong can be harmful.

>

> I felt great on hawthorn, like a miracle herb. Then not so great.

> Then, I realize that Cheney is putting ii last. So I stopped! But I

> want to get back to it. The thing is , how does Cheney himself

> would know if he is unclugging the end of the pipe fast enough not

> to be creating that " phantom chemistry " he warns about?

>

> How can I know that I am increasing catalase sufficiently? With

> other other herbs that is, since I do not know if anyone else who

> would give the intradermal kutrapressin shot?

>

[Guest guest]

Bob,

Thank you for this article. I have to study it and I have not seen the DVD yet.

But I wanted to throw this in...Dr. Cheney told me that I have or am at high

risk for Ischemia Reperfusion Injury.

I think this has to do with my being in his patient category of " living on

adrenaline " . The body's mechanism or treatments are finding a way to force a

heart with low Q to pump and keep me upright. This means, for one thing, erratic

rushes of low blood volume.

Something about these rushes (that " reverse " the low Q ?) , " send free radicals

to every cell in the body, causing injury to distant organs, including CNS " .

This is Ischemia Reperfusion Injury. And presumably, I have it.

This is my amateur description based on memory of my report, notes and our

visits. I was not able to return, so did not get further follow-up on this line

of thinking. (nor have seen the DVD).

But it makes the article very relevant to me.

He also told me in April that it is the 3 enzymes that need to be

raised...Catalase, SOD and Glutathione...for the Mitochondria to function

properly, in turn making the heart work properly.

{the heart has/needs the most mitochondria of any part of the body}.

Katrina

>

> > Doctor Cheney shows a diagram where he (in my interpretation) shows

> > that bad things might happen if SOD is increased and there is

> > nothing to take things farther down to water. He names this

> > something like " phanthom chemistry " . The black pathway in his chart.

> >

> > In another slide he states the order of treatment in which catalase

> > inducers come first (the last link in the process of getting rid of

> > the bad guys), the last thing in his sequence of treatment is SOD

> > inducers. To me this is like saying make sure that the end is not

> > plugged up before you turn the pressure on the hose at the beginning

> > (SOD inducers).

> >

> > So I want to try hawthorn, actually I did, but I am concerned that I

> > might be doing things in the wrong order. Meaning that I may be

> > making myself feel better at the expense of creating a lot " phantom

> > chremistry " . How would I know if that is happening if I feel great?

> >

> > I do not know of a a red flag that would tell me I am harming

> > myself. If he is correct in believing that CFIDS is a defense

> > mechanism, I do not want to override that mechanism in my ignorance,

> > feel great for a while and then end up needing a heart transplant or

> > worse.

> >

> > Again, my apologies for just saying find out and make up your own

> > mind. It stems from my desire not to lead people stray with poor

> > understanding. At the same time, I think that this might be very

> > important, so I felt I would be irresponsible not to tell my fellow

> > PWC that this need to be paid attention to.

> >

> > So , you are right. An opininon is just an opinion, and the above

> > is not even that. Just concern, that I do not know if we could be

> > harming ourselves (or not) by starting with hawthorn (last element

> > in Cheney's order of things). I believe that I understood that slide

> > on the chemical processes well enough to realize that doing things

> > wrong can be harmful.

> >

> > I felt great on hawthorn, like a miracle herb. Then not so great.

> > Then, I realize that Cheney is putting ii last. So I stopped! But I

> > want to get back to it. The thing is , how does Cheney himself

> > would know if he is unclugging the end of the pipe fast enough not

> > to be creating that " phantom chemistry " he warns about?

> >

> > How can I know that I am increasing catalase sufficiently? With

> > other other herbs that is, since I do not know if anyone else who

> > would give the intradermal kutrapressin shot?

> >

>