Re: CFS Personality Type Survey / Brain Type

[Guest guest]

I really suspect there is something to this 'brain type' issue. Some

things that are happening that are encouraging:

1. I posted the same poll for MBTI type to a large Lyme group, right

now there are 26 responses, and those results EXACTLY mirror the

results on this list. INFJ is the top type, closely followed by

ENFJ. That is statistically very improbable given that these are both

VERY rare types. If this indicator holds, Lyme and CFS could have a

LOT in common.

2. I joined a group that is for INFJ people only, it is a

MBTI-focused discussion group. Just guess what one of their current

threads is about... why so many INFJs have FM or CFS ! Many people on

that list are sick. There are quite a few support groups for

the various MBTI types, BTW.

3. I just read through a description of ENFJ, and that is called the

'Teacher' type by the BrainType.com site. Many schoolteachers are

ENFJ, and teaching is also a common profession among INFJs. Hmmmmm.

Maybe that explains why so many teachers were vulnerable to whatever

hit Truckee high school, if those affected had a vulnerable brain type.

4. I just read something interesting on BrainType.com that when

combined with the emerging information suggests to me that CFS might

be a brain dysfunction, biotoxin or viral-induced injury that

interacts with the physiology of the XNFJ type, perhaps creating some

type of regulation problem that cascades into the many different parts

of CFS. Here is the clip:

" We believe more than ever that Brain Type will have an appreciable

future impact on how brain scans and neurological data are

interpreted. For example, when two people have an abnormality in one

specific region of the brain (such as overactive or underactive

condition in the right basal ganglia (BG), it can affect each person

differently. An I__J Brain Type (also known as B__L or Back, Left) is

particularly adept in the brain's left posterior area. Thus, an

abnormal right BG should not impact the IJ (or BL) as much as an ENTP

(or FCIR), whose prowess resonates especially in the right anterior

region—near the right BG. A hindrance to making comprehensive sense of

brain-mapping/imaging in the 21st century has been the lack of

awareness as to individual cerebral differences. "

(ref: http://www.braintypes.com/btispring06.htm)

So, they have already identified the issue of a differential response

to brain injury, depending on the Brain Type (per MBTI). So could CFS

be this simple? A brain injury or dysfunction interacting with our

brain type?

--Kurt

[Guest guest]

Hi, Kurt.

Those with the ENFJ braintype all also often drawn to and found in nursing as

well as in

teaching. And the occassional doctor has the even more rare INFJ braintype,

though most

docs are ENTPs.

Put this informaton together with the fact that modern hospitals(of industrial

age design

influence of the last 400 years) have had to deal with the safety issue of their

environments creating and spreading more virulent infections within their

confines, a

never ending and sometimes lethal problem for in care patients, and what do

these

intersecting factors say about the potential for epidemic clusters of CFS

occurring among

hospital staff within this industry across the globe?

kurtrowley@...> wrote:

>

> I really suspect there is something to this 'brain type' issue. Some

> things that are happening that are encouraging:

>

> 1. I posted the same poll for MBTI type to a large Lyme group, right

> now there are 26 responses, and those results EXACTLY mirror the

> results on this list. INFJ is the top type, closely followed by

> ENFJ. That is statistically very improbable given that these are both

> VERY rare types. If this indicator holds, Lyme and CFS could have a

> LOT in common.

>

> 2. I joined a group that is for INFJ people only, it is a

> MBTI-focused discussion group. Just guess what one of their current

> threads is about... why so many INFJs have FM or CFS ! Many people on

> that list are sick. There are quite a few support groups for

> the various MBTI types, BTW.

>

> 3. I just read through a description of ENFJ, and that is called the

> 'Teacher' type by the BrainType.com site. Many schoolteachers are

> ENFJ, and teaching is also a common profession among INFJs. Hmmmmm.

> Maybe that explains why so many teachers were vulnerable to whatever

> hit Truckee high school, if those affected had a vulnerable brain type.

>

> 4. I just read something interesting on BrainType.com that when

> combined with the emerging information suggests to me that CFS might

> be a brain dysfunction, biotoxin or viral-induced injury that

> interacts with the physiology of the XNFJ type, perhaps creating some

> type of regulation problem that cascades into the many different parts

> of CFS. Here is the clip:

>

> " We believe more than ever that Brain Type will have an appreciable

> future impact on how brain scans and neurological data are

> interpreted. For example, when two people have an abnormality in one

> specific region of the brain (such as overactive or underactive

> condition in the right basal ganglia (BG), it can affect each person

> differently. An I__J Brain Type (also known as B__L or Back, Left) is

> particularly adept in the brain's left posterior area. Thus, an

> abnormal right BG should not impact the IJ (or BL) as much as an ENTP

> (or FCIR), whose prowess resonates especially in the right anterior

> region—near the right BG. A hindrance to making comprehensive sense of

> brain-mapping/imaging in the 21st century has been the lack of

> awareness as to individual cerebral differences. "

> (ref: http://www.braintypes.com/btispring06.htm)

>

> So, they have already identified the issue of a differential response

> to brain injury, depending on the Brain Type (per MBTI). So could CFS

> be this simple? A brain injury or dysfunction interacting with our

> brain type?

>

> --Kurt

>

[Guest guest]

Hi, Kurt,

Well, if you want another " survey " you can add me to the teacher

list. I am INFJ (although the P and J have varied over the years).

The onset for me was over 23 years ago after a car accident,

where my head hit the side window and whipped back and forth.

Definitely severe whiplash. This was followed shortly thereafter by

severe mold exposure and CO poisoning.

A lot of my physical complaints have centered around my left

occipital area - pain, tightness, stiffness. And, of course, all

the brain fogginess, etc. commonly reported in CFS.

Would you like to share which group you are referring to?

Thanks for starting this thread. It's been most interesting.

>

> I really suspect there is something to this 'brain type' issue.

Some

> things that are happening that are encouraging:

>

> 1. I posted the same poll for MBTI type to a large Lyme group,

right

> now there are 26 responses, and those results EXACTLY mirror the

> results on this list. INFJ is the top type, closely followed by

> ENFJ. That is statistically very improbable given that these are

both

> VERY rare types. If this indicator holds, Lyme and CFS could have

a

> LOT in common.

>

> 2. I joined a group that is for INFJ people only, it is a

> MBTI-focused discussion group. Just guess what one of their

current

> threads is about... why so many INFJs have FM or CFS ! Many

people on

> that list are sick. There are quite a few support groups for

> the various MBTI types, BTW.

>

> 3. I just read through a description of ENFJ, and that is called

the

> 'Teacher' type by the BrainType.com site. Many schoolteachers are

> ENFJ, and teaching is also a common profession among INFJs.

Hmmmmm.

> Maybe that explains why so many teachers were vulnerable to

whatever

> hit Truckee high school, if those affected had a vulnerable brain

type.

>

> 4. I just read something interesting on BrainType.com that when

> combined with the emerging information suggests to me that CFS

might

> be a brain dysfunction, biotoxin or viral-induced injury that

> interacts with the physiology of the XNFJ type, perhaps creating

some

> type of regulation problem that cascades into the many different

parts

> of CFS. Here is the clip:

>

> " We believe more than ever that Brain Type will have an

appreciable

> future impact on how brain scans and neurological data are

> interpreted. For example, when two people have an abnormality in

one

> specific region of the brain (such as overactive or underactive

> condition in the right basal ganglia (BG), it can affect each

person

> differently. An I__J Brain Type (also known as B__L or Back, Left)

is

> particularly adept in the brain's left posterior area. Thus, an

> abnormal right BG should not impact the IJ (or BL) as much as an

ENTP

> (or FCIR), whose prowess resonates especially in the right anterior

> region—near the right BG. A hindrance to making comprehensive

sense of

> brain-mapping/imaging in the 21st century has been the lack of

> awareness as to individual cerebral differences. "

> (ref: http://www.braintypes.com/btispring06.htm)

>

> So, they have already identified the issue of a differential

response

> to brain injury, depending on the Brain Type (per MBTI). So could

CFS

> be this simple? A brain injury or dysfunction interacting with our

> brain type?

>

> --Kurt

>

[Guest guest]

> Well, if you want another " survey " you can add me to the

teacher

> list. I am INFJ (although the P and J have varied over the years).

> The onset for me was over 23 years ago after a car accident,

> where my head hit the side window and whipped back and forth.

> Definitely severe whiplash. This was followed shortly thereafter by

> severe mold exposure and CO poisoning.

> A lot of my physical complaints have centered around my left

> occipital area - pain, tightness, stiffness. And, of course, all

> the brain fogginess, etc. commonly reported in CFS.

>

> Would you like to share which group you are referring to?

The group I joined is INFJ-List. There are many other MBTI groups as

well, but I like this one already. I am also an INFX, so am looking

for an INFP group to join as well.

--Kurt

[Guest guest]

Hi Kurt

I went into group site to check your INFJ group. Saw that it is the

highest second in population of personality groups. I wonder if INFJ's like

internet communication more than the other groups and this could be why

their population is also high in CFS and lyme groups. Just a thought.

bw

Nil

[Guest guest]

Nil > I went into group site to check your INFJ group. Saw that

it is the

> highest second in population of personality groups. I wonder if

INFJ's like

> internet communication more than the other groups and this could be why

> their population is also high in CFS and lyme groups. Just a thought.

That could also be a result of there being fewer INFJ groups than

groups for other types. But even if more INFJs are online, that would

not likely explain the 20x the normal rate we see in the polls. Also,

I know people not involved in internet groups who have CFS and are

INFJs. This is really just an incidental finding though, but still,

it does make a lot of sense given what has now been learned about

brain types and brain regions. Since CFS involves some type of brain

damage or lesions, I would not be surprised if that interacts in some

way with various personality or brain types. So really this may just

be a marker for some type of brain injury or dysfunction, which may be

very important to the CFS pathology.

--Kurt

[Guest guest]

Hi, Nil and Kurt.

According to expert estimates, the INFJ and ENFJ braintypes combined comprise no

more

than 8% of the human population. Also, the areas of these two braintypes brains

weakest

efficiency(blood flow, lymphatic flow, nuerotransmission) is the right side of

the brain,

including the right temperal lobe, right thalamus, right basal ganglia, right

hippocampus

and amygdala, which is the area of evidenced focal injury in PWCs according to

Dr Cheney

using MRS and the apparent indication by other studies looking at the PWC brain

over the

last 15 years.

Also physiologically no matter ones braintype, the right side brain requires the

most glucose and glutathione in order to function properly, issues pertinent to

ME/CFS.

Put this all together with the possibility that those with braintype NF traits,

representing

inherent language and empathy strengths, get depleted in glucose and glutathione

more

readily by stimilus most readily detected or engaged by the NF strengths and I

think we

may have homed in on a clear ME/CFS susceptibility factor for the INFJ and ENFJ

braintypes.

This may be why they are dramatically represented in this illness, while a truly

heterogeneous distribution and illness not connected to unique cerebral traits

should have

polled the ENTP braintype as the most represented in this illness, the ENTP

being the most

common of them all(the ENTP is also noted to be naturally most proficient with

computers

and outspoken, so I think they would be on these lists and taking these polls at

much

higher rates than evidenced if braintype weren't relevant).

<kurtrowley@...> wrote:

>

> Nil > I went into group site to check your INFJ group. Saw that

> it is the

> > highest second in population of personality groups. I wonder if

> INFJ's like

> > internet communication more than the other groups and this could be why

> > their population is also high in CFS and lyme groups. Just a thought.

>

> That could also be a result of there being fewer INFJ groups than

> groups for other types. But even if more INFJs are online, that would

> not likely explain the 20x the normal rate we see in the polls. Also,

> I know people not involved in internet groups who have CFS and are

> INFJs. This is really just an incidental finding though, but still,

> it does make a lot of sense given what has now been learned about

> brain types and brain regions. Since CFS involves some type of brain

> damage or lesions, I would not be surprised if that interacts in some

> way with various personality or brain types. So really this may just

> be a marker for some type of brain injury or dysfunction, which may be

> very important to the CFS pathology.

>

> --Kurt

>

[Guest guest]

Hi

Very important info for me. Thank you.

Indeed ENTP group was most crowded of all.

http://tech.dir./dir/1600389540

bw

Nil

Re: CFS Personality Type Survey / Brain Type

> Hi, Nil and Kurt.

>

>

>

> According to expert estimates, the INFJ and ENFJ braintypes combined

> comprise no more

> than 8% of the human population. Also, the areas of these two braintypes

> brains weakest

> efficiency(blood flow, lymphatic flow, nuerotransmission) is the right

> side of the brain,

> including the right temperal lobe, right thalamus, right basal ganglia,

> right hippocampus

> and amygdala, which is the area of evidenced focal injury in PWCs

> according to Dr Cheney

> using MRS and the apparent indication by other studies looking at the PWC

> brain over the

> last 15 years.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Sorry for being a bit leery of personality/brain typing. It's

reminiscent of the " mean neurotic index " that was used as an excuse to

blame Royal Free survivors of being predisposed to mass hysteria.

I agree that identifying genetic predispositions is important and

helps to place the problem in context:

If the problem is increasing at a rate that transcends the limitations

of a " pre-existing predisposition " , it's a pretty good indication that

the culprit is NOT the predisposition itself.

It would have to be " what changed " to cause the increased prevalence

of the expression of any prior predisposition.

Here's a good example of what I'm getting at.

Susceptibility to pesticides highly variable among Latina women and

children

http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2006/03/02_pesticides.shtml

If there were no pesticides, the issue wouldn't even come up because

there would be no illness association to observe - increasing or not.

If the illness-phenomenon is characterized by exponential increase of

something that wasn't " expressed " before - it's an indication of at

least two things.

1. It's the " what changed " that counts even more than the genetics.

2. If " what changed " increases exponentially, being less susceptible

only means that others will be affected somewhat later.

-

[Guest guest]

> According to expert estimates, the INFJ and ENFJ braintypes combined

comprise no more

> than 8% of the human population. Also, the areas of these two

braintypes brains weakest

> efficiency(blood flow, lymphatic flow, nuerotransmission) is the

right side of the brain,

> including the right temperal lobe, right thalamus, right basal

ganglia, right hippocampus

> and amygdala, which is the area of evidenced focal injury in PWCs

according to Dr Cheney

> using MRS and the apparent indication by other studies looking at

the PWC brain over the

> last 15 years.

> Also physiologically no matter ones braintype, the right side brain

requires the

> most glucose and glutathione in order to function properly, issues

pertinent to ME/CFS.

> Put this all together with the possibility that those with braintype

NF traits, representing

> inherent language and empathy strengths, get depleted in glucose and

glutathione more

> readily by stimilus most readily detected or engaged by the NF

strengths and I think we

> may have homed in on a clear ME/CFS susceptibility factor for the

INFJ and ENFJ

> braintypes.

> This may be why they are dramatically represented in this illness,

while a truly

> heterogeneous distribution and illness not connected to unique

cerebral traits should have

> polled the ENTP braintype as the most represented in this illness,

the ENTP being the most

> common of them all(the ENTP is also noted to be naturally most

proficient with computers

> and outspoken, so I think they would be on these lists and taking

these polls at much

> higher rates than evidenced if braintype weren't relevant).

** This is really interesting, and I think makes a lot of sense. To

make an analogy, if a person is right-handed, they are more

debilitated by an injury to their right arm, than by an injury to the

left. The higher use of GSH by this brain type makes a LOT of sense

to me, because the NT types rely more on abstract thinking.

Left-brain thinking is dependent on pre-existing logic patterns and

rules (or 'schema' to use the correct cognitive term). This is

probably a very efficient way to operate the brain. On the other

hand, a person who habitually uses more abstract thinking and is

creative, is continually learning and reflecting on multiple details

of a situation. Certainly a heavier drain on resources. I had never

made this energy connection before. This could explain a lot, and

also suggests that of a PWC is an NT type, they might conserve

resources by relying more on lists and routines, and not try to always

analyze and 'figure things out' so much from day to day.

--Kurt

[Guest guest]

>

> Sorry for being a bit leery of personality/brain typing. It's

> reminiscent of the " mean neurotic index " that was used as an excuse to

> blame Royal Free survivors of being predisposed to mass hysteria.

** I agree. We all should be leery of anything that will cause more

misunderstanding of our condition.

> I agree that identifying genetic predispositions is important and

> helps to place the problem in context:

> If the problem is increasing at a rate that transcends the limitations

> of a " pre-existing predisposition " , it's a pretty good indication that

> the culprit is NOT the predisposition itself.

> It would have to be " what changed " to cause the increased prevalence

> of the expression of any prior predisposition.

** Why are you looking for 'the culprit'? I don't believe the

evidence points to a single culprit in CFS. There are many problems

that could contribute to making the bridge crumble, to use your

metaphor. Predisposition is an important factor, particularly if its

effects can be mitigated as part of an integrated therapy.

> Here's a good example of what I'm getting at.

>

> Susceptibility to pesticides highly variable among Latina women and

> children

>

> http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2006/03/02_pesticides.shtml

>

> If there were no pesticides, the issue wouldn't even come up because

> there would be no illness association to observe - increasing or not.

** Absolutely right, but we do not have the luxury of having no

pesticides, so understanding their susceptibility may be important for

their survival.

> If the illness-phenomenon is characterized by exponential increase of

> something that wasn't " expressed " before - it's an indication of at

> least two things.

> 1. It's the " what changed " that counts even more than the genetics.

> 2. If " what changed " increases exponentially, being less susceptible

> only means that others will be affected somewhat later.

** I think you are resisting a complex, multi-dimensional explanation

that requires an integrated treatment approach. I also wish there

were a pill for CFS, and I really would not care if it were the red

pill or the blue pill. But unfortunately for us, what has changed is

just about everything in the environment, and we are the canaries. So

we can either argue about how to clean out the mine (your approach and

the approach of many others), or we can put on gas masks and bypass

our vulnerability (Rich's approach and also the approach of others).

I am trying to find a third option, which is to do both (an integrated

approach).

has made what I think is a good first attempt at explaining

how brain type might make some people more vulnerable to CFS. This

may turn out to be a trivial factor, but certainly it makes a lot of

sense that there is some effect from brain type. Perhaps part of the

resistance here is that the evidence that personality derives from

physiology and genetics is somewhat new. Therefore, presenting this

information could lead some people to think we are talking about

psychological factors again. That is a point well taken. But I

believe that using the term 'brain type' as opposed to personality is

safer, as that suggests the physiological typing.

--Kurt

[Guest guest]

Im glad to see Im not the only one to notice that ones with CFS often

seem to have certain types of personalities. I often think about most

of us having a personality type A (highly motivated types, ones with

the tendancy to push themselves)with an added caring streak as Ive

noticed so many of us are carers, nurses, support people, teachers etc.

When I did that personality test Im a INFP (idealist type). If I did

before I got bummed out with this illness, my result would of been

ENFP (motivator type).

[Guest guest]

" Kurt Rowley " <kurtrowley@...> wrote:

> ** Why are you looking for 'the culprit'? I don't believe the

> evidence points to a single culprit in CFS. There are many

problems that could contribute to making the bridge crumble, to use

your metaphor. Predisposition is an important factor, particularly

if its effects can be mitigated as part of an integrated therapy.

>

I tend to go along with Gow, who states that the genetic

alteration is an acquired condition.

If bridges that that had long stood the test of time suddenly

started crumbling in a manner never before seen, it seems to me that

an engineer would look first at " what changed " , rather than

implicating all the normal " stress and stressors " that the design

had always successfully withstood.

I think that those who are concentrating a complex, multi-

dimensional explanation have been overstressing the primacy of

individual weaknesses, when the scope of the phenomenon is pointing

at a massive earthquake.

-

[Guest guest]

Hi, Kurt.

Yes, and another tid bit to add to this equation is the observation that

" language " is

inherently a dominant skill in those with the NF trait combination, suggesting

strong use

of the Broca language area of the brain.

So reintroducing your suggestion that mirror neurons may play an important role

in CFS,

do you know in what area of the brain, in humans, mirror neurons predominantly

exist and

function?

Answer: The Broca region!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirror_Neurons

" Kurt Rowley " <kurtrowley@...> wrote:

davidhall@> wrote:

[XNFJs] are dramatically represented in this illness,

while a truly heterogeneous distribution and illness not connected to unique

cerebral traits should have polled the ENTP braintype as the most represented in

this

illness,the ENTP being the most common of them all(the ENTP is also noted to be

naturally

most proficient with computers

and outspoken, so I think they would be on these lists and taking

these polls at much higher rates than evidenced if braintype weren't relevant).

> ** This is really interesting, and I think makes a lot of sense. To

> make an analogy, if a person is right-handed, they are more

> debilitated by an injury to their right arm, than by an injury to the

> left. The higher use of GSH by this brain type makes a LOT of sense

> to me, because the NT types rely more on abstract thinking.

> Left-brain thinking is dependent on pre-existing logic patterns and

> rules (or 'schema' to use the correct cognitive term). This is

> probably a very efficient way to operate the brain. On the other

> hand, a person who habitually uses more abstract thinking and is

> creative, is continually learning and reflecting on multiple details

> of a situation. Certainly a heavier drain on resources. I had never

> made this energy connection before. This could explain a lot, and

> also suggests that of a PWC is an NT type, they might conserve

> resources by relying more on lists and routines, and not try to always

> analyze and 'figure things out' so much from day to day.

>

> --Kurt

>

[Guest guest]

>

> > ** Why are you looking for 'the culprit'? I don't believe the

> > evidence points to a single culprit in CFS. There are many

> problems that could contribute to making the bridge crumble, to use

> your metaphor. Predisposition is an important factor, particularly

> if its effects can be mitigated as part of an integrated therapy.

> >

>

> I tend to go along with Gow, who states that the genetic

> alteration is an acquired condition.

This may be true for some adaptations, but does not apply to SNPs that

are inherited.

> If bridges that that had long stood the test of time suddenly

> started crumbling in a manner never before seen, it seems to me that

> an engineer would look first at " what changed " , rather than

> implicating all the normal " stress and stressors " that the design

> had always successfully withstood.

The problem is that only a small percentage of bridges are collapsing,

although nearly all are experiencing some accelerated decay.

Therefore both the bridge design/materials and the environment must be

evaluated. An engineer must consider the entire picture.

> I think that those who are concentrating a complex, multi-

> dimensional explanation have been overstressing the primacy of

> individual weaknesses, when the scope of the phenomenon is pointing

> at a massive earthquake.

With regard to the effect of brain type on athletic performance, the

role of genetics/Environment in top performers is about 60/40 or maybe

65/35, according to Niednagel. If you are not familiar with his work

these quick sports program interviews (ESPN, etc) provide a good overview:

http://www.braintypes.com/video_clips.htm

I would not at all be surprised to learn that Niednagel's rule of

thumb applies to many aspects of human behavior and performance. One

of the reasons I am so interested in the genetic angle, on top of

everything else, is that I have watched my 22 year-old daughter fall

into CFS after years of struggling to retain her functionality. She

had to drop out of college and is living with us. Her presentation of

CFS is nearly identical to my own, but she acquired the condition much

earlier in life than I did. This is curious since she has a lower

toxin load, has no amalgams, has not been exposed to high levels of

stress like I was when I got sick, never had the 'flu-like illness'

that started my CFS, etc. She does have the Lyme Bb antigen, but so

do several other family members who are not sick. Also, she is EM/RF

sensitive like I am, but hard to say if that is a cause or effect of

something else. I have a large family and none of my other children

are sick with CFS, although I have seen some lowering of energy levels

during the years I got sick. Also my wife does not have CFS (although

she is MCS). If a PWC is living in isolation of other PWC they may

not see these links suggesting familial genetics are involved. But

they are quite clear to me.

Anyway, I have already been the rounds with the 'earthquake'

explanations, and while I believe they are important, treating them

just did not work. So I am developing a more integrated model of the

illness, and this finally is starting to make sense, in essence that

CFS is a self-selected group of genetic types who do not tolerate

'earthquakes' (environmental triggers) as well as most other folks.

Time will reveal if this is a correct model.

--Kurt

[Guest guest]

" Kurt Rowley " wrote:

>

One of the reasons I am so interested in the genetic angle, on top

of everything else, is that I have watched my 22 year-old daughter

fall into CFS after years of struggling to retain her

functionality. She had to drop out of college and is living with

us. Her presentation of CFS is nearly identical to my own, but she

acquired the condition much earlier in life than I did. This is

curious since she has a lower toxin load, has no amalgams, has not

been exposed to high levels of stress like I was when I got sick,

never had the 'flu-like illness' that started my CFS, etc. She does

have the Lyme Bb antigen, but so do several other family members who

are not sick. Also, she is EM/RF sensitive like I am, but hard to

say if that is a cause or effect of something else. I have a large

family and none of my other children are sick with CFS, although I

have seen some lowering of energy levels during the years I got

sick. Also my wife does not have CFS (although she is MCS). If a

PWC is living in isolation of other PWC they may not see these links

suggesting familial genetics are involved. But they are quite clear

to me.

>

Question for all in your family.

Can you feel it when a storm is approaching?

-

[Guest guest]

> >

> One of the reasons I am so interested in the genetic angle, on top

> of everything else, is that I have watched my 22 year-old daughter

> fall into CFS after years of struggling to retain her

> functionality. She had to drop out of college and is living with

> us. Her presentation of CFS is nearly identical to my own, but she

> acquired the condition much earlier in life than I did. This is

> curious since she has a lower toxin load, has no amalgams, has not

> been exposed to high levels of stress like I was when I got sick,

> never had the 'flu-like illness' that started my CFS, etc. She does

> have the Lyme Bb antigen, but so do several other family members who

> are not sick. Also, she is EM/RF sensitive like I am, but hard to

> say if that is a cause or effect of something else. I have a large

> family and none of my other children are sick with CFS, although I

> have seen some lowering of energy levels during the years I got

> sick. Also my wife does not have CFS (although she is MCS). If a

> PWC is living in isolation of other PWC they may not see these links

> suggesting familial genetics are involved. But they are quite clear

> to me.

> >

>

> Question for all in your family.

> Can you feel it when a storm is approaching?

> -

>

Some of us can, yes. My daughter and myself (the two with CFS)

sometimes get hit hard when there is high wind, or a storm. Sometimes

we do not realize it until during or after the storm, but sometimes we

can backtrack and realize that we felt worse before. But it is

inconsistent, seems to depend on the pressure changes or humidity

level or electricity in the air, or some other factor, because some

storms do not produce that effect. But we live on the East coast and

get a lot of storms so yes there is a pattern. We also feel worse

during a full moon. This is such a wierd illness.

Incidentally, my wife and I have nearly opposite brain types (per the

MBTI), and the children also are a bit split on this. The daughter

with CFS and myself both have the dominant CFS brain type though. In

fact that is one of the most obvious points in common between us.

--Kurt

[Guest guest]

> Question for all in your family.

> Can you feel it when a storm is approaching?

> -

, " Kurt Rowley " wrote:

> Some of us can, yes. My daughter and myself (the two with CFS)

> sometimes get hit hard when there is high wind, or a storm.

Sometimes we do not realize it until during or after the storm, but

sometimes we can backtrack and realize that we felt worse before.

But it is inconsistent, seems to depend on the pressure changes or

humidity level or electricity in the air, or some other factor,

because some storms do not produce that effect. But we live on the

East coast and get a lot of storms so yes there is a pattern. We

also feel worse during a full moon. This is such a wierd illness.

> --Kurt

Well, well well. So you noticed the full moon effect as well.

No doubt about it. You guys are " moldies " , but to really convince

you, I'd have to take you somewhere like Truckee HS and show you

just how it works.

Have you logged on to www.chronicneurotoxins.com to do Dr.

Shoemakers VCS test?

Prepare to be amazed.

-

[Guest guest]

> Well, well well. So you noticed the full moon effect as well.

>

> No doubt about it. You guys are " moldies " , but to really convince

> you, I'd have to take you somewhere like Truckee HS and show you

> just how it works.

> Have you logged on to www.chronicneurotoxins.com to do Dr.

> Shoemakers VCS test?

> Prepare to be amazed.

> -

Yes, I have had the VCS, and flunked it soundly. Have not tried that

for my daughter though. No doubt we are moldies. But we also have

many other pathologies. Which is primary? This is where I think the

whole complicated mess must be viewed as a composite of many problems

interacting.

I had my own 'Truckee tour' experience when I bought a old book from

eBay and the mold smell just about took me out of commission. I had

never reacted like that before, a powerful 'hit'. But my day to day

life does not seem to involve that level of reaction. Could a

perpetual low-level mold response activate the bad mold genes? I am

sure there is some toxic mold in the environment around my house, but

not at the concentrations I experienced from that book.

--Kurt