Re: The mitochondria membrane and the effect of steroids, estrogen and thyroid

[Guest guest]

Hi, Pam.

Congradualtions. It looks like you've found the subset of CFS that happens to

be readily

treatable with cortrisone or similar cortisol replacement medications.

It is true that I and other PWCs often show low cortisol on testing among other

abnormal

test results, but only on occassion do I notice someone like yourself where

replacement

therapy is the solution to your symptoms. I think it says many of us don't

really have the

same condition as you, but you are a reminder that this is something that needs

to be

ruled out if one who has gotten a CFS diagnosis hasn't already done so.

doggy532001@...> wrote:

>

> Hi all

>

> I can across this on another board and thought you all might like to

> see it. Obviously for me it has tremendous implications with such a

> low steroid level previously which stopped my body from using the

> thyroid hormones I was taking but I am sure it has implications for

> everybody with low mito function.

>

> Since being on the 5mg Prednisolone I have had to stop the Armour

> because of going very hyper and found I was only needing 5 hours

> sleep at night plus horrible sweating episodes with very nasty

> muscles everywhere. Today was the 1st day of 0 Armour just 50 mcg

> thyroxine and it was definitely better.

>

> One positive effect of the steroid is that once I have got off to

> sleep I have slept all night, something I haven't been able to do

> since 1993. Even if I get up for the loo I go straight back to

> sleep. Also my blood sugar is so normal I don't have to keep

> eating. If I don't feel great then I just know its nothing to do

> with my blood sugar and this feels really great.

>

> Pam

>

> " The mitochondrion as a primary site of action of steroid and

> thyroid hormones: Presence and action of steroid and thyroid hormone

> receptors in mitochondria of animal cells

>

> A.-M.G. Psarraa, S. Solakidib and C.E. Sekerisb, ,

>

> aFoundation for Biomedical Research of the Academy of Athens, Center

> for Basic Research, Athens, Greece

> bInstitute of Biological Research and Biotechnology, National

> Hellenic Research Foundation, Athens, Greece

>

> Available online 4 January 2006.

>

> http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.mce.2005.11.025 pdf

>

> Psarra AM, Solakidi S, Sekeris CE.

>

> Foundation for Biomedical Research of the Academy of Athens, Center

> for Basic Research, Athens, Greece.

>

> Mitochondria are key cellular organelles that regulate events

> related to energy production and apoptosis. These processes are

> modulated, in turn, by steroid and thyroid hormones in the course of

> their actions on metabolism, growth and development. In this

> context, a direct effect of these hormones on the mitochondrial-

> linked processes, possibly by way of cognate mitochondrial

> receptors, has been proposed. In this paper we review data from the

> literature and present new findings supporting this concept.

> Receptors for steroid hormones, glucocorticoids and estrogens, and

> for T(3), have been detected in mitochondria by immunofluorescence

> labeling and confocal laser microscopy, by Western blotting of

> mitochondrial proteins and by immunogold electron microscopy.

> Furthermore, the mitochondrial genome contains nucleotide sequences

> with high similarity to known hormone-responsive elements, which

> interact with the appropriate receptors to confer hormone-dependent

> activation of reporter genes in transfection experiments. Thus,

> thyroid hormone stimulates mitochondrial transcription mediated by

> the cognate receptor when added to an in organello mitochondrial

> system, capable of faithful transcription.

>

> PMID: 16388892 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

>

> Abstract Pubmed "

>

[Guest guest]

>

> Hi, Pam.

>

>

>

> Congradualtions. It looks like you've found the subset of CFS

that happens to be readily

> treatable with cortrisone or similar cortisol replacement

medications.

>

>

> It is true that I and other PWCs often show low cortisol on

testing among other abnormal

> test results, but only on occassion do I notice someone like

yourself where replacement

> therapy is the solution to your symptoms. I think it says many of

us don't really have the

> same condition as you, but you are a reminder that this is

something that needs to be

> ruled out if one who has gotten a CFS diagnosis hasn't already

done so.

>

>

>

Hi

I am not so sure that the subset is very small who suffer with

this. Many studies have shown there is hypo function of the HPA

axis in CFS which is likely to give normal blood tests of the TSH

and weak adrenal function doesn't even exist with standard doctors.

I always had so called normal blood tests because my TSH was always

low but I was quite severally hypothyroid (secondary hypothyroidism

is usually overlooked by traditional docs too, they only seem to

know about primary hypo). How many on this list know what their

free T4 and free T3 levels are and where they are on the range? If

the thyroid is a problem then one would expect to see levels of T4

and or T3 right at the bottom of the ranges.

On other lists many have posted their ATP results and practically

all of them have low ATP so I am wondering if they would also

improve if the issues of underfuntioning adrenals and thyroid were

addressed.

Its the first time I have seen a study confirming the role of T3 and

cortisol and estrogen in the functioning of the mitochondria and

even Biolab don't mention this on their very detailed report on the

ATP function test and Mitrochondria Study.

BW

Pam

[Guest guest]

Hi, Pam.

" doggy532001 " <doggy532001@...> wrote:

> <davidhall@> wrote:

> >

> > Hi, Pam.

> > Congradualtions. It looks like you've found the subset of CFS

> that happens to be readily

> > treatable with cortrisone or similar cortisol replacement

> medications...

> Hi

>

> I am not so sure that the subset is very small who suffer with

> this. Many studies have shown there is hypo function of the HPA

> axis in CFS which is likely to give normal blood tests of the TSH

> and weak adrenal function doesn't even exist with standard doctors.

> I always had so called normal blood tests because my TSH was always

> low but I was quite severally hypothyroid (secondary hypothyroidism

> is usually overlooked by traditional docs too, they only seem to

> know about primary hypo).

***Yes, I'm very much aware of this but what I don't think you realize is even

the docs that

do recognize secondary hypothyroidism in PWCs often don't have a clue as to why

replacement therapy such as you've done fails in so many PWCs, it seems to be

the norm

that this happens and not the exception. They seem to not be up to date that

increased

hydrogen peroxide production(h2o2), which rises inversely with poor glutathione

status, is

the crux of this problem in producing thyroid dysfunction and why the various

replacement therapies often don't alleviate core symptoms.

How many on this list know what their

> free T4 and free T3 levels are and where they are on the range? If

> the thyroid is a problem then one would expect to see levels of T4

> and or T3 right at the bottom of the ranges.

***I disagree with this assumption as the more upstream issue of glutathione

status and

methylation cycle blocks, for that matter, likely tend to render the results of

these tests

useless in terms of directing appropriate treatment. This doesn't mean those

tests are

invalid for pure autoimmune determined dysfunction, but I think the pathology of

CFS is

often a different animal for the reasons stated.

>

> On other lists many have posted their ATP results and practically

> all of them have low ATP so I am wondering if they would also

> improve if the issues of underfuntioning adrenals and thyroid were

> addressed.

>

***This is good logic, in part, but you don't seem to be recognizing that by the

time

someone is going for these type tests the treatments that usually follow are

meant to

directly address the issues of underfunctioning adrenals and thyroid. They are

explicit

treatments for these two problems among others in CFS.

Its the first time I have seen a study confirming the role of T3 and

> cortisol and estrogen in the functioning of the mitochondria and

> even Biolab don't mention this on their very detailed report on the

> ATP function test and Mitrochondria Study.

***Biolab is really about getting at upstream issues to these that will likely

be corrected as

the upstream problems are effectively addressed.

***

[Guest guest]

>

>

>>

> >

> > On other lists many have posted their ATP results and

practically

> > all of them have low ATP so I am wondering if they would also

> > improve if the issues of underfuntioning adrenals and thyroid

were

> > addressed.

> >

>

>

> ***This is good logic, in part, but you don't seem to be

recognizing that by the time

> someone is going for these type tests the treatments that usually

follow are meant to

> directly address the issues of underfunctioning adrenals and

thyroid. They are explicit

> treatments for these two problems among others in CFS.

>

>

>

> Its the first time I have seen a study confirming the role of T3

and

> > cortisol and estrogen in the functioning of the mitochondria and

> > even Biolab don't mention this on their very detailed report on

the

> > ATP function test and Mitrochondria Study.

>

>

>

> ***Biolab is really about getting at upstream issues to these that

will likely be corrected as

> the upstream problems are effectively addressed.

>

>

>

> ***

Hi

My point is that they are likely to feel a whole lot better if given

some treatment of the adrenals/thyroid whilst they go about getting

the other stuff sorted out. If given the proper treatment one can

feel so much better quite quickly whereas the other stuff can take

some time. It seems stupid to ignore test results if they plainly

show there is a problem whether it be primary which is what you are

talking about or secondary.

I also agree with improving methylation etc and have been doing this

myself with the benefit that new hair is now growing because of the

folinic acid I have been taking and I am not in any way disregarding

the important of it.

Only time will tell if and when the " upstream problems are

effectively addressed " will be sufficient to get the person well. I

was repeatedly told by a doctor outside of traditional medicine that

if the borrelia was treated and killed off then my adrenals would

work just fine. Plainly he was very wrong and I know of others with

CFS who very obviously have massive adrenal issues that aren't

addressed. They continue to lead wretched lives.

Pam

[Guest guest]

Hi, Amelia.

lifelonglearner79@...> wrote:

>

> Dear ,

>

> So, if glutathione status affects thyroid functioning,

> then would effectively raising glutathione be the

> answer for thyroid function. Is this what you

> discovered after utilizing Renewpro?

***Yes. Exactly. Also if you happen to have them, diabetes Insipidus(DI), low

blood

volume and orthostatic intolerance(ie, blood pressure dropping upon standing)

can all be

alleviated this way too, as I've personally experienced.

> What if one has autoimmune thyroiditis, as measured

> by autoantibodies, as well as, CFS? I have been on

> various thyroid supplements (have tried Synthroid,

> Cytomel, Thyrolar, and now, Armour) for about 20

> years, without any noticeable symptom improvement.

***Well simply the fact that these treatments haven't made the intended

difference and

that you've been sick for at least 20 yrs, you definitely fit the profile of a

PWC where it is

indeed glutathione status that is the crux of the matter for this issue. I

tested high in

autoantibodies a few times myself and used these very same meds you mention, but

I like

you found no real benefit, so I think your case is yet another example of how

practically

useless these type tests can be for many with CFS.

***

> > > <davidhall@> wrote:

even the docs that

> > do recognize secondary hypothyroidism in PWCs often

> > don't have a clue as to why

> > replacement therapy such as you've done fails in so

> > many PWCs, it seems to be the norm

> > that this happens and not the exception. They seem

> > to not be up to date that increased

> > hydrogen peroxide production(h2o2), which rises

> > inversely with poor glutathione status, is

> > the crux of this problem in producing thyroid

> > dysfunction and why the various

> > replacement therapies often don't alleviate core

> > symptoms.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi, Amelia.

lifelonglearner79@...> wrote:

> Have you been able to go off of Thyroid, completely,

> and have good thyroid function?

***Yes and yes.

Did you support your

> adrenals?

***I tried, but the cortisol replacement therapy made no difference, and

actually with one

med. created an ulcer, which abated after I stopped using it.

> I seem to have POTS (tachycardia, high blood

> pressure), but low cardiac output.

***Have you checked your glutathione status? It could be the problem and POTs

with

high or low blood pressure are signs for this.

***Low cardiac output also may be a sign.

> Have a lot of the symptoms of DI...is there a test for

> that?

***Yes, there are a few. You can get your anitdiurectic hormone level tested,

with low

output indicating DI, OR you can test your 24 hr urine output where above normal

is

highly suggestive for DI and I think if this result is shown when a person knows

glutathione status is an issue in them, it is conclusive for DI.

***

> davidhall2020 <davidhall@...>

> > Hi, Amelia.

> >

lifelonglearner79@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Dear ,

> > >

> > > So, if glutathione status affects thyroid

> > functioning,

> > > then would effectively raising glutathione be the

> > > answer for thyroid function. Is this what you

> > > discovered after utilizing Renewpro?

> >

> >

> >

> > ***Yes. Exactly. Also if you happen to have them,

> > diabetes Insipidus(DI), low blood

> > volume and orthostatic intolerance(ie, blood

> > pressure dropping upon standing) can all be

> > alleviated this way too, as I've personally

> > experienced.

> >

> >

> > > What if one has autoimmune thyroiditis, as

> > measured

> > > by autoantibodies, as well as, CFS? I have been

> > on

> > > various thyroid supplements (have tried Synthroid,

> > > Cytomel, Thyrolar, and now, Armour) for about 20

> > > years, without any noticeable symptom improvement.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ***Well simply the fact that these treatments

> > haven't made the intended difference and

> > that you've been sick for at least 20 yrs, you

> > definitely fit the profile of a PWC where it is

> > indeed glutathione status that is the crux of the

> > matter for this issue. I tested high in

> > autoantibodies a few times myself and used these

> > very same meds you mention, but I like

> > you found no real benefit, so I think your case is

> > yet another example of how practically

> > useless these type tests can be for many with CFS.

> >

> >

> >

> > ***