Re: CFS vs. Post-viral Syndrome

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

You really would not find this ridiculous at all if you had the disease that

originally elicited the invented title of " CFS " from the CDC. Because it is

ME/CFS...a devastating neurological/Immune disease from hell with about a

" possibly " 2% recovery a rate. For decades at least, it has been known to last

decades/lifetime....as it is for most on this list.

Where the CDC/Fukuda and the UK have taken it is to such a vague place, I have

no idea what it means. Becasue it is so wide open, nearly anyone can lay claim

to it...and therefore that their particular theory/treatment cures " it " .

You said you *prefer* electrosmog illness because the avoidance of EMFs cured

you.

I am one person who totally agrees with you that EMFs are making people very

ill. And worsening/escalating other illnesses. To a very alarming degree, and

one that most people are in extreme denial about. But that it alone is the cause

of CFS and avoidance the total cure is where you lose many people, including me.

Besides that ME/CFS preceded the mass proliferation of microwaves, many PWCs

have practiced avoidance and still not gotten well.

It's just a fact that if you became ill last year, and you're over it, and just

by avoiding EMFs, you don't have the same disease that many of us have.

But it will seem strange that I say that, because I also cannot emphacise enough

how sick and worsening I think EMFs are making people.

I also feel this way about chemicals/synthetics/toxic drugs, other areas of

extreme denial. And Mold. The synergy between and among all of the above is

really hideous...and growing.

Then add escalating pathogens, such as Lyme-related/tick borne. (Which BTW, may

have to do with global warming).

In the end, as humans accumulate all of this onslought, the distinctions and

individual labels may not be as relevant to define " the " illness.

But failure to distinguish each so far, has assured lack of research, treatment,

and healing, plus assurances of being more suceptible to the multiple others,

plus ability of the Psych lobby to gobble up the funds and studies out of the

void/the lack...of ones that focus on each...

In addition...to murk up utterly...who the original population was...throwing us

all together on lists, with one size fits all expectations and advice.

I have really appreciated some of the studies you have posted...including

connections between EMFs and escalation of other serious conditions and

allergies.

I think this is relevant to ME/CFS, myself, and my loved ones.

Katrina

.....

> > >

> > > I have never seen a tick per se, but there certainly are lots of

> > > mites here compared to other places. In Japanese, the word for mite

> > > is `dani` which is translated in the dictionary as `tick` which could

> > > explain the discrepancy. Have you ever been to Japan yourself Nelly?

> > >

> > > Having said that, I have had allergies since I was was about 3 months

> > > old. I came down with CFS last year - which I no longer have btw.

> > >

> > > peace

> > >

> > > paul

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Well Katrina,

I think you have summed up what is going on very well. Maybe " it " should be

called " All-Of-The-Above. " Or just " It. "

Seriously, I cannot fathom how we will get out of the huge mess it is, ie, we

humans. But maybe it is not so diffirent from when the plague decimated Europe.

And something changed and life went on. You know the old curse: " May you be born

in interesting times. "

Adrienne

Re: CFS vs. Post-viral Syndrome

Hi ,

You really would not find this ridiculous at all if you had the disease that

originally elicited the invented title of " CFS " from the CDC. Because it is

ME/CFS...a devastating neurological/Immune disease from hell with about a

" possibly " 2% recovery a rate. For decades at least, it has been known to last

decades/lifetime....as it is for most on this list.

Where the CDC/Fukuda and the UK have taken it is to such a vague place, I have

no idea what it means. Becasue it is so wide open, nearly anyone can lay claim

to it...and therefore that their particular theory/treatment cures " it " .

You said you *prefer* electrosmog illness because the avoidance of EMFs cured

you.

I am one person who totally agrees with you that EMFs are making people very

ill. And worsening/escalating other illnesses. To a very alarming degree, and

one that most people are in extreme denial about. But that it alone is the cause

of CFS and avoidance the total cure is where you lose many people, including me.

Besides that ME/CFS preceded the mass proliferation of microwaves, many PWCs

have practiced avoidance and still not gotten well.

It's just a fact that if you became ill last year, and you're over it, and

just by avoiding EMFs, you don't have the same disease that many of us have.

But it will seem strange that I say that, because I also cannot emphacise

enough how sick and worsening I think EMFs are making people.

I also feel this way about chemicals/synthetics/toxic drugs, other areas of

extreme denial. And Mold. The synergy between and among all of the above is

really hideous...and growing.

Then add escalating pathogens, such as Lyme-related/tick borne. (Which BTW,

may have to do with global warming).

In the end, as humans accumulate all of this onslought, the distinctions and

individual labels may not be as relevant to define " the " illness.

But failure to distinguish each so far, has assured lack of research,

treatment, and healing, plus assurances of being more suceptible to the multiple

others, plus ability of the Psych lobby to gobble up the funds and studies out

of the void/the lack...of ones that focus on each...

In addition...to murk up utterly...who the original population was...throwing

us all together on lists, with one size fits all expectations and advice.

I have really appreciated some of the studies you have posted...including

connections between EMFs and escalation of other serious conditions and

allergies.

I think this is relevant to ME/CFS, myself, and my loved ones.

Katrina

....

> > >

> > > I have never seen a tick per se, but there certainly are lots of

> > > mites here compared to other places. In Japanese, the word for mite

> > > is `dani` which is translated in the dictionary as `tick` which could

> > > explain the discrepancy. Have you ever been to Japan yourself Nelly?

> > >

> > > Having said that, I have had allergies since I was was about 3 months

> > > old. I came down with CFS last year - which I no longer have btw.

> > >

> > > peace

> > >

> > > paul

> > >

> >

>

This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

discussed here, please consult your doctor.

[Guest guest]

I don't think these times are interesting, I am devistated by the onslought.

There's a lovely book out called " Biomimicry " by Janine Benyus that explains

perfectly what we did. By not living symbiotically with the environment, by

mono culturing, by not watching how the rest of the planet operated we've doomed

ourselves to picking up the peices of our folly. We live long, but do we

prosper. And I speak strickly in health terms because for me without it what

exactly is life? But humans are intrepid and we, all of us especially on this

list are trying so darn hard.

" Adrienne G. " <duckblossm@...> wrote: Well Katrina,

I think you have summed up what is going on very well. Maybe " it " should be

called " All-Of-The-Above. " Or just " It. "

Seriously, I cannot fathom how we will get out of the huge mess it is, ie, we

humans. But maybe it is not so diffirent from when the plague decimated Europe.

And something changed and life went on. You know the old curse: " May you be born

in interesting times. "

Adrienne

Re: CFS vs. Post-viral Syndrome

Hi ,

You really would not find this ridiculous at all if you had the disease that

originally elicited the invented title of " CFS " from the CDC. Because it is

ME/CFS...a devastating neurological/Immune disease from hell with about a

" possibly " 2% recovery a rate. For decades at least, it has been known to last

decades/lifetime....as it is for most on this list.

Where the CDC/Fukuda and the UK have taken it is to such a vague place, I have

no idea what it means. Becasue it is so wide open, nearly anyone can lay claim

to it...and therefore that their particular theory/treatment cures " it " .

You said you *prefer* electrosmog illness because the avoidance of EMFs cured

you.

I am one person who totally agrees with you that EMFs are making people very

ill. And worsening/escalating other illnesses. To a very alarming degree, and

one that most people are in extreme denial about. But that it alone is the cause

of CFS and avoidance the total cure is where you lose many people, including me.

Besides that ME/CFS preceded the mass proliferation of microwaves, many PWCs

have practiced avoidance and still not gotten well.

It's just a fact that if you became ill last year, and you're over it, and just

by avoiding EMFs, you don't have the same disease that many of us have.

But it will seem strange that I say that, because I also cannot emphacise enough

how sick and worsening I think EMFs are making people.

I also feel this way about chemicals/synthetics/toxic drugs, other areas of

extreme denial. And Mold. The synergy between and among all of the above is

really hideous...and growing.

Then add escalating pathogens, such as Lyme-related/tick borne. (Which BTW, may

have to do with global warming).

In the end, as humans accumulate all of this onslought, the distinctions and

individual labels may not be as relevant to define " the " illness.

But failure to distinguish each so far, has assured lack of research, treatment,

and healing, plus assurances of being more suceptible to the multiple others,

plus ability of the Psych lobby to gobble up the funds and studies out of the

void/the lack...of ones that focus on each...

In addition...to murk up utterly...who the original population was...throwing us

all together on lists, with one size fits all expectations and advice.

I have really appreciated some of the studies you have posted...including

connections between EMFs and escalation of other serious conditions and

allergies.

I think this is relevant to ME/CFS, myself, and my loved ones.

Katrina

.....

> > >

> > > I have never seen a tick per se, but there certainly are lots of

> > > mites here compared to other places. In Japanese, the word for mite

> > > is `dani` which is translated in the dictionary as `tick` which could

> > > explain the discrepancy. Have you ever been to Japan yourself Nelly?

> > >

> > > Having said that, I have had allergies since I was was about 3 months

> > > old. I came down with CFS last year - which I no longer have btw.

> > >

> > > peace

> > >

> > > paul

> > >

> >

>

This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

discussed here, please consult your doctor.

[Guest guest]

Hi Katrina,

Don`t get me wrong. I am not saying that this is the only factor and

I have never said such. I think that is an " interpretation " rather

than an accurate " observation. " I think that there are indeed many

other factors (metal toxicity, chemical toxicity, mold, viruses,

mycoplasma, toxoplasma, antioxidant depletion, adrenal exhaustion,

neurotransmitter disruption, nutritional deficiencies, genetic

dispostion, lowered NK cell counts, allergies, and so on) that

contribute to this illness for the majority of people. However, EMR

seems to be the one factor that can indeed explain the multitude of

symptoms and abnormalities found in this disease - and I believe

that it is this combined with all these other factors that causes

this illness.

Actually, the cell phone networks in the USA were being set up

across the country in the mid 80s which sets it just around the time

that CFS started to make its appearance in the form we know it

today. The first commercial cellular phone network I believe was set

up in Chicago in 1983 and it then took off like wildfire in other

cities across the country. I am sure that the advent of the personal

computer also contributed and I don`t think it was a coincidence

that it was originally called " Yuppie Flu " since the yuppies (being

technological savy and financially able) were indeed the first to

purchase and own computers and cell phones.

Trying to avoid EMR and totally removing oneself from the

electrosmog are two different things. Anyway, I have said that

removing myself from the electrosmog was the most important thing

that I did for my recovery. I also did a lot of chelation, took a

lot of antioxidants, practiced QiGong, detoxed and so on.

Unfortunately, I have since been forced to return to and live in the

electrosmog and still have symptoms related to that. However, when I

am in a place with little or no electrosmog these symptoms

miraclelessly disappear. However, I no longer have the symptoms

that would define me as having CFS. Right now, it is pretty much

electrosensitivity. But maybe everyone has this but they just don`t

realize it (the frog being slowly cooked analogy). It took complete

removal for me from it to realize that it was affecting me and when

I would enter it again I could feel it drastically.

I was on the train today and looking around me at all the Japanese

people playing with the Microwave Radiation emitting devices (AKA

cell phones) and looking at their faces, they all didn`t look at all

healthy - but rather very sickly.

Anyway, recently in Israel, 200 people got together and tore down a

cell phone tower that had been recently erected in their

neighborhood. They said that " We have to protect our children. " We

all need more Chutzpah! I wish this attitude would spread to the

rest of the world - (though in Ireland a few have been blown up). I

don`t want my son being exposed to this microwave radiation because

all these selfish assholes (excuse moi francaise) want to use their

cell phones. As far as I am concerned this what can be described as

an indirect form of (legal) terrorism. And was is sickening is that

people are paying the cell phone companies to make them - and

everyone else - sick.

peace,

paul

> > > >

> > > > I have never seen a tick per se, but there certainly are

lots of

> > > > mites here compared to other places. In Japanese, the word

for mite

> > > > is `dani` which is translated in the dictionary as `tick`

which could

> > > > explain the discrepancy. Have you ever been to Japan

yourself Nelly?

> > > >

> > > > Having said that, I have had allergies since I was was about

3 months

> > > > old. I came down with CFS last year - which I no longer have

btw.

> > > >

> > > > peace

> > > >

> > > > paul

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

On 10/7/06, Doyon <prd34@...> wrote:

> Hi Katrina,

>

> Actually, the cell phone networks in the USA were being set up

> across the country in the mid 80s which sets it just around the time

> that CFS started to make its appearance in the form we know it

> today.

http://www.name-us.org/Researc<http://www.name-us.org/ResearchPages/ResEpidemic.\

htm#M.E._Epidemics>

hPages/ResEpidemic.htm#M.E._Epi<http://www.name-us.org/ResearchPages/ResEpidemic\

..htm#M.E._Epidemics>

demics <http://www.name-us.org/ResearchPages/ResEpidemic.htm#M.E._Epidemics>

lists outbreaks of ME. There are fifty before 1980.

[Guest guest]

And the military has been using microwaves since WW2 so... what are

you trying to say?

> > Hi Katrina,

> >

> > Actually, the cell phone networks in the USA were being set up

> > across the country in the mid 80s which sets it just around the

time

> > that CFS started to make its appearance in the form we know it

> > today.

>

> http://www.name-us.org/Researc<http://www.name-

us.org/ResearchPages/ResEpidemic.htm#M.E._Epidemics>

> hPages/ResEpidemic.htm#M.E._Epi<http://www.name-

us.org/ResearchPages/ResEpidemic.htm#M.E._Epidemics>

> demics <http://www.name-

us.org/ResearchPages/ResEpidemic.htm#M.E._Epidemics>

>

> lists outbreaks of ME. There are fifty before 1980.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

You were the one that pointed to a huge increase in the 80s. I just pointed

out that there was plenty to go around before that.

On 10/8/06, Doyon <prd34@...> wrote:

>

> And the military has been using microwaves since WW2 so... what are

> you trying to say?

>

>

[Guest guest]

> >

> > And the military has been using microwaves since WW2 so... what

are

> > you trying to say?

> >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

" Doyon " wrote:

But we can agree that in spite of this there was a substantial

increase in the 80s beyond all that was there already.

> paul

Absolutely!

If EMF's are responsible for exacerbating a pre-existing " potential "

that was heretofore more self-limiting, then so be it.

It would be a bit more reassuring if researchers first words didn't

tend to be " That's impossible " .

The answer could be in front of their eyes, but they've already

blinded themselves.

-

[Guest guest]

> But we can agree that in spite of this there was a substantial

> increase in the 80s beyond all that was there already.

> > paul

>

>

> Absolutely!

> If EMF's are responsible for exacerbating a pre-existing " potential "

> that was heretofore more self-limiting, then so be it.

>

> It would be a bit more reassuring if researchers first words didn't

> tend to be " That's impossible " .

> The answer could be in front of their eyes, but they've already

> blinded themselves.

> -

, that is so true. I think the quote I posted from the Zen monk, Suzuki,

about there

being many possibilities in the beginner's mind, while there are so few in the

expert's

sums this up pretty clearly. Anyone that takes the time to look at the research

(with an

open mind) will see that every one of the abnormalities and symptoms found in

CFS can be

explained by exposure to EMR and that all of the other factors are ones that

just

contribute/exasperbate this condition. More and more people are becoming ill all

the time

- and it is only a matter of time before people start adding two and two

together and

figuring this out. A lot of the information is being suppressed because of

economic and

military interests - but it is there.

peace

paul