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I'm VERY interested in the Yasko protocol and want to know everything that comes

up on tests and what ya'all are doing about it. I think this is all quite

fascinating and would gladly join another list to be in on it. But what about

the delete button? I'm not ready to jump into it, but want to keep careful

tabs on those of you that are. One thing I would like is to have some of the

jargon explained to the novices in the group...maybe that's a reason for a

separate Yasko group.

jill1313 <jenbooks13@...> wrote: I've been backchanelled about

this so will bring it up.

This list is my favorite on . I don't want to see its

fertility undermined and I don't want us to just stop discussing

Yasko/glutathione etc her cold turkey.

OTOH there are a # of us who probably want to discuss our test results

and our protocols and what's working, in detail that the others may

not want. If so, should we start a co-moderated Yasko group (with at

least 3 of us as moderators since we all have health issues and NONE

of us are going to want to play the role Ken sometimes has had to on

this list). We could have a files section where our test results are

permanently available to view (I don't think I can have a signature

because I use ).

General insights, news, Rich's thinking, and substantial improvements

like Sue's could be posted in both. Or perhaps, to help ease the

reading of those here, Rich could post a long post analyzing someone's

health history and test results, or whatever he likes to post, on

there, and a message here that he has just posted on there, for those

who like to read it. Or cross post if its encompassing enough.

What I'm trying to suggest is that we create a both/and situation,

that still allows big, important, stuff about the whole

Yasko/glutathione issue to remain a lively topic on here without

exclusively dominating the list for those who have trouble

concentrating or reading, and to allow those of us interested in

orembarking on this as one of our approaches to discuss it in as much

detail as we want on a Yasko list.

Again, I think that at least 3 of us should be comoderators. Maybe

Rich wouldn't mind being the first one (i.e the first and final

arbiter, because he gets along with everybody) who starts the list,

and a few others of us can volunteer because Rich isn't always

available to post. So asking him to do more is not the idea at all,

simply having him as a final arbiter should a few times a year, there

arise some thorny internet situation. I hope there's not but I've seen

even the best lists have such situations from time to time.

I would think that to register for this list, which would be

moderated, we should use the format where you have to mention a

bit about who you are and why you want to join (i.e. this list should

just be for people who genuinely want to pursue this approach; not for

those who are skeptical or want to cut it down).

This is my suggestion. Please chime in, I hope that is okay with Ken,

rather than backchanelling, if we take a few days to discuss this and

arrive at a solution that overall will benefit everybody.

The reason I'm bringing this up is because a few folks backchanneled

me on it.

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Why need a new list? Why not just put some sort of agreed-upon marker in the

subject line on all those posts that would be going to the new list? People who

don't want to read those posts can just not open them. So then you have a list

within a list. Much easier and more flexible, too, I think. Somedays I like to

dabble in the stuff I am not yet trying. somedays not.

Adrienne

Yasko List

I've been backchanelled about this so will bring it up.

This list is my favorite on . I don't want to see its

fertility undermined and I don't want us to just stop discussing

Yasko/glutathione etc her cold turkey.

OTOH there are a # of us who probably want to discuss our test results

and our protocols and what's working, in detail that the others may

not want. If so, should we start a co-moderated Yasko group (with at

least 3 of us as moderators since we all have health issues and NONE

of us are going to want to play the role Ken sometimes has had to on

this list). We could have a files section where our test results are

permanently available to view (I don't think I can have a signature

because I use ).

General insights, news, Rich's thinking, and substantial improvements

like Sue's could be posted in both. Or perhaps, to help ease the

reading of those here, Rich could post a long post analyzing someone's

health history and test results, or whatever he likes to post, on

there, and a message here that he has just posted on there, for those

who like to read it. Or cross post if its encompassing enough.

What I'm trying to suggest is that we create a both/and situation,

that still allows big, important, stuff about the whole

Yasko/glutathione issue to remain a lively topic on here without

exclusively dominating the list for those who have trouble

concentrating or reading, and to allow those of us interested in

orembarking on this as one of our approaches to discuss it in as much

detail as we want on a Yasko list.

Again, I think that at least 3 of us should be comoderators. Maybe

Rich wouldn't mind being the first one (i.e the first and final

arbiter, because he gets along with everybody) who starts the list,

and a few others of us can volunteer because Rich isn't always

available to post. So asking him to do more is not the idea at all,

simply having him as a final arbiter should a few times a year, there

arise some thorny internet situation. I hope there's not but I've seen

even the best lists have such situations from time to time.

I would think that to register for this list, which would be

moderated, we should use the format where you have to mention a

bit about who you are and why you want to join (i.e. this list should

just be for people who genuinely want to pursue this approach; not for

those who are skeptical or want to cut it down).

This is my suggestion. Please chime in, I hope that is okay with Ken,

rather than backchanelling, if we take a few days to discuss this and

arrive at a solution that overall will benefit everybody.

The reason I'm bringing this up is because a few folks backchanneled

me on it.

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Re: Yasko List

" I'm not ready to jump into it, but want to keep careful tabs on those of you

that are. "

a.. Chronic fatigue syndrome

b.. Chronic fatigue syndrome treatment

c.. Chronic fatigue syndrome and treatment

d.. Chronic fatigue syndrome diet

e.. Chronic fatigue syndrome symptom list

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That was what I was trying to say for myself.

Adrienne

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HI All,

I think it is great that people are very interested in sharing and learning

more about the Yasko program . . . personally I think what we are doing on this

group is great!

More importantly I think the www.autsimanswer.com/forum is a more effective

way of reaching out and getting support through this process. Not sure why there

is not more focus on the Parent and Adult area of the forum?

I personally have to use my energy carefully and most effectively. I can't

risk having to deal with 3 or four forums and support groups to share my

progress.

I believe we all know our limitations and know how much we can deal with at

different times with our journey to wellness. I am really not a great writer and

find it difficult to share . . . but I know it is necessary to help others. I am

limited in that area.

I think if others really feel comfortable writing a lot . . this is great,

but others(like myself) find it challenging and stressful. It does not mean I am

not improving . . I am a lot, but I have to nurture my healing and not overdo

it mentally . . .its to draining . . I need to get away from the computer more

not spend more time on it . . . too stressful if I am on it too much.

I need to be more meditative and calm.

You can really follow my progress by looking up my posts on the Yasko forum.

Dr. Yasko is thrilled, too!!

Hope you understand :^))

Best wishes, Sue T

jill1313 <jenbooks13@...> wrote:

I've been backchanelled about this so will bring it up.

This list is my favorite on . I don't want to see its

fertility undermined and I don't want us to just stop discussing

Yasko/glutathione etc her cold turkey.

OTOH there are a # of us who probably want to discuss our test results

and our protocols and what's working, in detail that the others may

not want. If so, should we start a co-moderated Yasko group (with at

least 3 of us as moderators since we all have health issues and NONE

of us are going to want to play the role Ken sometimes has had to on

this list). We could have a files section where our test results are

permanently available to view (I don't think I can have a signature

because I use ).

General insights, news, Rich's thinking, and substantial improvements

like Sue's could be posted in both. Or perhaps, to help ease the

reading of those here, Rich could post a long post analyzing someone's

health history and test results, or whatever he likes to post, on

there, and a message here that he has just posted on there, for those

who like to read it. Or cross post if its encompassing enough.

What I'm trying to suggest is that we create a both/and situation,

that still allows big, important, stuff about the whole

Yasko/glutathione issue to remain a lively topic on here without

exclusively dominating the list for those who have trouble

concentrating or reading, and to allow those of us interested in

orembarking on this as one of our approaches to discuss it in as much

detail as we want on a Yasko list.

Again, I think that at least 3 of us should be comoderators. Maybe

Rich wouldn't mind being the first one (i.e the first and final

arbiter, because he gets along with everybody) who starts the list,

and a few others of us can volunteer because Rich isn't always

available to post. So asking him to do more is not the idea at all,

simply having him as a final arbiter should a few times a year, there

arise some thorny internet situation. I hope there's not but I've seen

even the best lists have such situations from time to time.

I would think that to register for this list, which would be

moderated, we should use the format where you have to mention a

bit about who you are and why you want to join (i.e. this list should

just be for people who genuinely want to pursue this approach; not for

those who are skeptical or want to cut it down).

This is my suggestion. Please chime in, I hope that is okay with Ken,

rather than backchanelling, if we take a few days to discuss this and

arrive at a solution that overall will benefit everybody.

The reason I'm bringing this up is because a few folks backchanneled

me on it.

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Jill,

This seems like a very reasonable suggestion, to form a more focused group.

In July, when the Yasko discussions took off, the messages on this list doubled,

to 3,058....over one hundred a day. Mostly very long and complicated....detailed

individuals' test results and explanations of the pathways. There will be many

more coming and that's before even getting to the treatment discussions...also

very complicated.

THis obviously is a need for those doing the program, and will continue to be,

even more so. And for the rest of us, who are interested in different degrees.

It seems that it will need and deserve much more space.

Meanwhile, what has happened on this list, is that other CFS/CFIDS topics are

getting buried, shortened or or ignored. It's hard to even find them, among

hundreds of posts within a few days. We have a lot of old patients returning and

new ones arriving. And alot of territory to cover

There will be much more coming up on all of these topics, theories, treatments,

and CFS researchers, too. I also want those to have fully open time and space.

I have had the most backchannel posts ever from this list the last couple of

months, most about subjects usually covered on the list, but now not getting any

response.

Some of the emails are from more ill and brain-fogged patients who cannot keep

up with this list, or be heard, in it's present form. They deserve the space, in

as much detail, they have always had here, and I'd like to see them back on the

list. (For one thing, the volume of individual treatment emails is draining

me...meaning the ones that are usually covered on the list, not that it's not ok

to email me).

My brain hurts more than ever from the complicated posts, and trying to " catch "

other topics as they whiz by.

It would be easier to catch the many many *other* CFS subjects/angles on this

list, and know that Yasko style is concentrated in one space to go to.

That way, none/neither arena would be cheated...but have full open discussion.

There would be overlaps, of course, as among all the lists, but it seems this

idea would be healthier for all, rather than one subject/theory dominating long

term, but all

limited.

We have successfully done this on numerous special protocols. It helps the brain

organization problem too.

TC,

Katrina

>

> I've been backchanelled about this so will bring it up.

>

> This list is my favorite on . I don't want to see its

> fertility undermined and I don't want us to just stop discussing

> Yasko/glutathione etc her cold turkey.

>

> OTOH there are a # of us who probably want to discuss our test results

> and our protocols and what's working, in detail that the others may

> not want. If so, should we start a co-moderated Yasko group (with at

> least 3 of us as moderators since we all have health issues and NONE

> of us are going to want to play the role Ken sometimes has had to on

> this list). We could have a files section where our test results are

> permanently available to view (I don't think I can have a signature

> because I use ).

>

> General insights, news, Rich's thinking, and substantial improvements

> like Sue's could be posted in both. Or perhaps, to help ease the

> reading of those here, Rich could post a long post analyzing someone's

> health history and test results, or whatever he likes to post, on

> there, and a message here that he has just posted on there, for those

> who like to read it. Or cross post if its encompassing enough.

>

> What I'm trying to suggest is that we create a both/and situation,

> that still allows big, important, stuff about the whole

> Yasko/glutathione issue to remain a lively topic on here without

> exclusively dominating the list for those who have trouble

> concentrating or reading, and to allow those of us interested in

> orembarking on this as one of our approaches to discuss it in as much

> detail as we want on a Yasko list.

>

> Again, I think that at least 3 of us should be comoderators. Maybe

> Rich wouldn't mind being the first one (i.e the first and final

> arbiter, because he gets along with everybody) who starts the list,

> and a few others of us can volunteer because Rich isn't always

> available to post. So asking him to do more is not the idea at all,

> simply having him as a final arbiter should a few times a year, there

> arise some thorny internet situation. I hope there's not but I've seen

> even the best lists have such situations from time to time.

>

> I would think that to register for this list, which would be

> moderated, we should use the format where you have to mention a

> bit about who you are and why you want to join (i.e. this list should

> just be for people who genuinely want to pursue this approach; not for

> those who are skeptical or want to cut it down).

>

> This is my suggestion. Please chime in, I hope that is okay with Ken,

> rather than backchanelling, if we take a few days to discuss this and

> arrive at a solution that overall will benefit everybody.

>

> The reason I'm bringing this up is because a few folks backchanneled

> me on it.

>

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I would prefer to keep it to this list. A person can usually tell from the

subject line if its about Yasko, or any other topic. One can pick and choose

which ones to open.

Janet

jill1313 <jenbooks13@...> wrote:

I've been backchanelled about this so will bring it up.

This list is my favorite on . I don't want to see its

fertility undermined and I don't want us to just stop discussing

Yasko/glutathione etc her cold turkey.

OTOH there are a # of us who probably want to discuss our test results

and our protocols and what's working, in detail that the others may

not want. If so, should we start a co-moderated Yasko group (with at

least 3 of us as moderators since we all have health issues and NONE

of us are going to want to play the role Ken sometimes has had to on

this list). We could have a files section where our test results are

permanently available to view (I don't think I can have a signature

because I use ).

General insights, news, Rich's thinking, and substantial improvements

like Sue's could be posted in both. Or perhaps, to help ease the

reading of those here, Rich could post a long post analyzing someone's

health history and test results, or whatever he likes to post, on

there, and a message here that he has just posted on there, for those

who like to read it. Or cross post if its encompassing enough.

What I'm trying to suggest is that we create a both/and situation,

that still allows big, important, stuff about the whole

Yasko/glutathione issue to remain a lively topic on here without

exclusively dominating the list for those who have trouble

concentrating or reading, and to allow those of us interested in

orembarking on this as one of our approaches to discuss it in as much

detail as we want on a Yasko list.

Again, I think that at least 3 of us should be comoderators. Maybe

Rich wouldn't mind being the first one (i.e the first and final

arbiter, because he gets along with everybody) who starts the list,

and a few others of us can volunteer because Rich isn't always

available to post. So asking him to do more is not the idea at all,

simply having him as a final arbiter should a few times a year, there

arise some thorny internet situation. I hope there's not but I've seen

even the best lists have such situations from time to time.

I would think that to register for this list, which would be

moderated, we should use the format where you have to mention a

bit about who you are and why you want to join (i.e. this list should

just be for people who genuinely want to pursue this approach; not for

those who are skeptical or want to cut it down).

This is my suggestion. Please chime in, I hope that is okay with Ken,

rather than backchanelling, if we take a few days to discuss this and

arrive at a solution that overall will benefit everybody.

The reason I'm bringing this up is because a few folks backchanneled

me on it.

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Adrienne,

I see your point, yet that would not work for me. This " list within a list " kind

of becomes the list. And it needs to grow considerably. Over a hundred posts a

day, only 7 or 9 test results , barely any treatments yet. That will be hundreds

of posts and thousands and thousands of words to go through to find any other

message, even from the same day or 2. It's too hard.

I just realized how many topics I have missed, because they're pretty quickly

very hard to locate, even recent ones.

Also, the detailed Rich/Yasko test, pathway posts, as they are developing, take

a different part of the brain to read...to study.

It would really help me to concentrate if I had one place to go where all the

details are, as my brain can handle it.

And MUCH easier to follow the other subjects that are here. They take enough

brain power as it is. We do have a *brain* disease :)

(Some of the same subjects, of course, but trimmed down a bit).

I think you said your brain has been worse lately too.

>>>>Somedays I like to dabble in the stuff I am not yet trying. somedays

not.<<<<<

Me, too...that's why I like the new suggestion :)

Katrina

>

> Why need a new list? Why not just put some sort of agreed-upon marker in the

subject line on all those posts that would be going to the new list? People who

don't want to read those posts can just not open them. So then you have a list

within a list. Much easier and more flexible, too, I think. Somedays I like to

dabble in the stuff I am not yet trying. somedays not.

> Adrienne

>

> Yasko List

>

>

> I've been backchanelled about this so will bring it up.

>

> This list is my favorite on . I don't want to see its

> fertility undermined and I don't want us to just stop discussing

> Yasko/glutathione etc her cold turkey.

>

> OTOH there are a # of us who probably want to discuss our test results

> and our protocols and what's working, in detail that the others may

> not want. If so, should we start a co-moderated Yasko group (with at

> least 3 of us as moderators since we all have health issues and NONE

> of us are going to want to play the role Ken sometimes has had to on

> this list). We could have a files section where our test results are

> permanently available to view (I don't think I can have a signature

> because I use ).

>

> General insights, news, Rich's thinking, and substantial improvements

> like Sue's could be posted in both. Or perhaps, to help ease the

> reading of those here, Rich could post a long post analyzing someone's

> health history and test results, or whatever he likes to post, on

> there, and a message here that he has just posted on there, for those

> who like to read it. Or cross post if its encompassing enough.

>

> What I'm trying to suggest is that we create a both/and situation,

> that still allows big, important, stuff about the whole

> Yasko/glutathione issue to remain a lively topic on here without

> exclusively dominating the list for those who have trouble

> concentrating or reading, and to allow those of us interested in

> orembarking on this as one of our approaches to discuss it in as much

> detail as we want on a Yasko list.

>

> Again, I think that at least 3 of us should be comoderators. Maybe

> Rich wouldn't mind being the first one (i.e the first and final

> arbiter, because he gets along with everybody) who starts the list,

> and a few others of us can volunteer because Rich isn't always

> available to post. So asking him to do more is not the idea at all,

> simply having him as a final arbiter should a few times a year, there

> arise some thorny internet situation. I hope there's not but I've seen

> even the best lists have such situations from time to time.

>

> I would think that to register for this list, which would be

> moderated, we should use the format where you have to mention a

> bit about who you are and why you want to join (i.e. this list should

> just be for people who genuinely want to pursue this approach; not for

> those who are skeptical or want to cut it down).

>

> This is my suggestion. Please chime in, I hope that is okay with Ken,

> rather than backchanelling, if we take a few days to discuss this and

> arrive at a solution that overall will benefit everybody.

>

> The reason I'm bringing this up is because a few folks backchanneled

> me on it.

>

>

>

>

>

>

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This is my preferred solution. Having to join yet another list is more

complicated for me than using the delete button. I enjoy the Yasko discussion

here, and feel I've learned a lot from it. On my bad days, the delete button

works well. Perhaps it is harder for those who receive the list in digest form?

Jill

Yasko List

I've been backchanelled about this so will bring it up.

This list is my favorite on . I don't want to see its

fertility undermined and I don't want us to just stop discussing

Yasko/glutathione etc her cold turkey.

OTOH there are a # of us who probably want to discuss our test results

and our protocols and what's working, in detail that the others may

not want. If so, should we start a co-moderated Yasko group (with at

least 3 of us as moderators since we all have health issues and NONE

of us are going to want to play the role Ken sometimes has had to on

this list). We could have a files section where our test results are

permanently available to view (I don't think I can have a signature

because I use ).

General insights, news, Rich's thinking, and substantial improvements

like Sue's could be posted in both. Or perhaps, to help ease the

reading of those here, Rich could post a long post analyzing someone's

health history and test results, or whatever he likes to post, on

there, and a message here that he has just posted on there, for those

who like to read it. Or cross post if its encompassing enough.

What I'm trying to suggest is that we create a both/and situation,

that still allows big, important, stuff about the whole

Yasko/glutathione issue to remain a lively topic on here without

exclusively dominating the list for those who have trouble

concentrating or reading, and to allow those of us interested in

orembarking on this as one of our approaches to discuss it in as much

detail as we want on a Yasko list.

Again, I think that at least 3 of us should be comoderators. Maybe

Rich wouldn't mind being the first one (i.e the first and final

arbiter, because he gets along with everybody) who starts the list,

and a few others of us can volunteer because Rich isn't always

available to post. So asking him to do more is not the idea at all,

simply having him as a final arbiter should a few times a year, there

arise some thorny internet situation. I hope there's not but I've seen

even the best lists have such situations from time to time.

I would think that to register for this list, which would be

moderated, we should use the format where you have to mention a

bit about who you are and why you want to join (i.e. this list should

just be for people who genuinely want to pursue this approach; not for

those who are skeptical or want to cut it down).

This is my suggestion. Please chime in, I hope that is okay with Ken,

rather than backchanelling, if we take a few days to discuss this and

arrive at a solution that overall will benefit everybody.

The reason I'm bringing this up is because a few folks backchanneled

me on it.

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My preference is to keep the discussion of the Yasko protocol on this

list. I think most of the " detail " posting about the protocol will

eventually move to the Yasko Autism Answer forum and make a new list

unnecessary.

I consider this list my " home base " and I don't want to lose my sense

of connection to it. I would find it hard to keep up with 3 lists.

Vickie

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Hi,

Adrienne, I think this is a good idea. But it doesn't matter to me. I

just still have a really hard time finding things on the Yasko list.

Either my brain is so CFIDS ridden and feeble, or I have a mental

block. Also, the subject matter is more geared towards autistic kids -

don't know if that matters much.

Michele G

>

> Why need a new list? Why not just put some sort of agreed-upon

marker in the subject line on all those posts that would be going to

the new list? People who don't want to read those posts can just not

open them. So then you have a list within a list. Much easier and more

flexible, too, I think. Somedays I like to dabble in the stuff I am

not yet trying. somedays not.

> Adrienne

>

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>

> >

> > Why need a new list? Why not just put some sort of agreed-upon

> marker in the subject line on all those posts that would be going

to

> the new list? People who don't want to read those posts can just not

> open them. So then you have a list within a list. Much easier and

more

> flexible, too, I think. Somedays I like to dabble in the stuff I am

> not yet trying. somedays not.

> > Adrienne

> >

>

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I agree with Janet, Vicki, Sue and CL about keeping the Yasko

information on this list rather than forming a new one. I've been a

member of this group for many years and have always selected which

messages I want to read. No one has to read every message. This

breakthrough in treating CFS/ME through genetic understanding and

being able to build glutathione, eliminate pathogens and heavy

metals through a program of supplements that are suited to the

individual is the biggest news that has happened in this field in a

long time. To deprive new members of the details by taking most of

the discussion to another group seems to defy the purpose here,

which is to learn about the experimental treatments that exist.

Also, autismanswers.com is planning to create a section for adults

on the program, and Sue mentioned that Dr. Yasko is coming out with

a book about how CFS fits into her plan. So, we already have two

groups to read on this subject.

Every member can choose which messages to read and which threads to

follow as well as which posts to answer.

Janet s wrote:

>I would prefer to keep it to this list. A person can usually tell

from the subject line if its about Yasko, or any other topic. One

can pick and choose which ones to open.

>

>

> jill wrote:

.... should we start a co-moderated Yasko group

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>

> Cool...thanks for all the answers...seems like the majority want it to

> stay on here. I appreciate that and feel more comfortable about our

> posting here now.

>

*** Hmm, the majority...of a list of 2,189 patients on a half day Saturday, with

mostly the few Yasko patients weighing in, and only others who are interested in

it?

What happened to this:

>>>>if we take a few days to discuss this and arrive at a solution that overall

will benefit everybody.<<<<<

*** Is it assumed that " everybody " else has already left? Anyway, I've been a

member since 1999, plus other research lists around the world. I hope that the

number of other areas considered " the biggest breakthroughs " , in CFS, and more

coming, will receive the same amount of time discussing them.

I am already addressing some of these pathways, and taking many of the

supplements.

I was excited because, I saw various breakthroughs as Synergistic, as opposed to

Autism/Y being " the one, the cure " . I could not see that, of course, since we

have been told it is not targeted to sudden onset, pathogen/toxin induced

epidemic ME/CFS/CFIDS, which people are still being struck down with.

Also, organ failure is pretty real and rather critical, which is what many

patients have, and other protocols are addressing. This is the largest, I think

only CFS treatment specific list, so I hope the desire for " everyone's benefit "

will remain.

***Genetic testing and labs are popping up all over the place now, so maybe,

possibly, that will help the costs come down...we can watch for that.

Since this is a treatment-only list, could the Yasko posts at least remain

treatment specific?

Katrina

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Hi, Jill.

I agree with Adrienne. An informal agreement to use " Yasko " as part of ones

heading could also be the sign for those who may choose to skip reading the

posts on this topic to do so.

If this is not sufficient, I think then complaints of domination are invalid.

The Yasko testing and treatments discussion is new and complex, but nevertheless

fits the guidlines of what can be discussed on this list.

No one is forcing anyone to read or do anything here. It's easier to keep

conversations to as few lists as possible at this point, IMO.

complex " Adrienne G. " <duckblossm@...> wrote:

>

> Why need a new list? Why not just put some sort of agreed-upon marker in the

subject line on all those posts that would be going to the new list? People who

don't want to read those posts can just not open them. So then you have a list

within a list. Much easier and more flexible, too, I think. Somedays I like to

dabble in the stuff I am not yet trying. somedays not.

> Adrienne

>

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: jill1313

The reason I'm bringing this up is because a few folks backchanneled

> me on it.

>

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I agree with and Adrienne, if it's clear from the subject heading

that it's about Yasko people can skip it.

Personally, I have difficulty reading, processing information etc and

am averse to deterministic genetic theories. Yet the Yasko discusssions

here have allowed me to understand (I think!) that Dr Yasko is only

using the gentic information as a tool to help underdstand possible

causes of Autism, CFS etc and to target interventions with greater

accuracy.

There are no guarantees or silver bullets with any treatment but I'm

grateful to all those who have raised my awareness.

>An informal agreement to use " Yasko " as part of ones heading could

also be the sign for those who may choose to skip reading the posts on

this topic to do so.

It's easier to keep conversations to as few lists as possible at this

point, IMO.

>

>

>

>

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Well, I am not really into any particular treatment agenda...

I am into objective examination of what may work...

I am exhausted with people pushing a particular treatment avenue, as

it can be downright dangerous for some, ineffective for many...

I do think that Rich has made such significant contribution, that he

would be sorely missed, and he contributes much beyond the Yasko

subject matter...

So, I can skip the Yasko messages, is not applicable.

But, I would like to see other treatment protocols, discussed, in

much more depth..

Amelia

> I agree with and Adrienne, if it's clear from the subject

heading

> that it's about Yasko people can skip it.

>

> Personally, I have difficulty reading, processing information etc

and

> am averse to deterministic genetic theories. Yet the Yasko

discusssions

> here have allowed me to understand (I think!) that Dr Yasko is only

> using the gentic information as a tool to help underdstand possible

> causes of Autism, CFS etc and to target interventions with greater

> accuracy.

>

> There are no guarantees or silver bullets with any treatment but

I'm

> grateful to all those who have raised my awareness.

>

>

>

>

>

> >An informal agreement to use " Yasko " as part of ones heading could

> also be the sign for those who may choose to skip reading the posts

on

> this topic to do so.

>

> It's easier to keep conversations to as few lists as possible at

this

> point, IMO.

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

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Hi,

I very well could have missed something, but I am not aware of people

pushing a particular treatment avenue. I would just delete those

messages, or skip them. Personally, I dan't submerge myself into this

DD too much or life becomes too much of a bummer. I like to pretend

I'm " well " as much as possible - even if it means watching something

dumb on TV. Like Cleopatra, the Queen of denial.

Michele G

>

> Well, I am not really into any particular treatment agenda...

>

> I am into objective examination of what may work...

>

> I am exhausted with people pushing a particular treatment avenue, as

> it can be downright dangerous for some, ineffective for many...

>

> I do think that Rich has made such significant contribution, that he

> would be sorely missed, and he contributes much beyond the Yasko

> subject matter...

>

> So, I can skip the Yasko messages, is not applicable.

>

> But, I would like to see other treatment protocols, discussed, in

> much more depth..

>

> Amelia

>

> > I agree with and Adrienne, if it's clear from the subject

> heading

> > that it's about Yasko people can skip it.

> >

> > Personally, I have difficulty reading, processing information etc

> and

> > am averse to deterministic genetic theories. Yet the Yasko

> discusssions

> > here have allowed me to understand (I think!) that Dr Yasko is only

> > using the gentic information as a tool to help underdstand possible

> > causes of Autism, CFS etc and to target interventions with greater

> > accuracy.

> >

> > There are no guarantees or silver bullets with any treatment but

> I'm

> > grateful to all those who have raised my awareness.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > >An informal agreement to use " Yasko " as part of ones heading could

> > also be the sign for those who may choose to skip reading the posts

> on

> > this topic to do so.

> >

> > It's easier to keep conversations to as few lists as possible at

> this

> > point, IMO.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

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I think the Yasko stuff belongs on its own list, with perhaps an occasional

update here as to what is going on. People interested in Yasko can subscribe

to both. I would do the testing if I could afford it.

THose like me with cognitive impairment and very low energy even find it

difficult to find non Yasko stuff in DIgest mode..... this in addition to my

frequent plea for folks to trim their posts.

I've deleted about the last 15 digests without even opening them.

I've been a member since about 2000

mjh

" The Basil Book "

http://foxhillfarm.us/FireBasil/

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That sounds like a good idea, . Even in Digest Form, if one sees

Yasko in the headline, one can scroll down with one's mouse. Maybe

trying that will be a good win-win.

> >

> > Why need a new list? Why not just put some sort of agreed-upon

marker in the subject line on all those posts that would be going to

the new list? People who don't want to read those posts can just not

open them. So then you have a list within a list. Much easier and more

flexible, too, I think. Somedays I like to dabble in the stuff I am

not yet trying. somedays not.

> > Adrienne

> >

> > ----- Original Message -----

> > From: jill1313

> The reason I'm bringing this up is because a few folks backchanneled

> > me on it.

> >

>

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I've been on this list for about the same length of time as you. I

stopped reading the list for over 6 months because it became too

depressing to read about treatments I could not tolerate. I finally

came back to one that seems promising to me. It seems like there is

way more discussion about whether to " allow " discussion of this

subject than of the subject itself. Due to this illness I'm as thick

as a plank, but I don't get it! This is after years of endless

discussions about whey, antibiotics, Cheney, heperin etc.If it is

coded in the subject line it should be pretty easy to skip.

Michele

>

> I think the Yasko stuff belongs on its own list,

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a point of clarification:

Cheney says over 80% of his patients have the PFO hole in the heart,

which he has recently begun looking for.

I was there in April but he wasn't looking for it back then. I have

the diastolic heart failure he's been looking for, but I'm not aware

of any given percentage of his patients who are positive for that.

It's not the same thing as the PFO, although there is probably some

relation between the two.

Helen

>

> Hi, Marilyn,

> I would like to encourage you to think that where there's a will,

there's a way.

> I was all het up about getting the cardiovascular testing done, but

it has taken me so long to get that together and now, voila, news

comes that 90% of the people Cheney tests have the defect, so it

begins to make sense to begin treating without testing. Most of that

treatment is easy.

>

> Perhaps you have not grasped it, but I was pushing Rich, and so he

came up with that list of questions he ask some folks which allow one

to make inferences about the mutations and figure at least some of it

out without testing.

> And now there is that very helpful clue, (it needs sorting out to

be sure), that we adults don't even need her whole program. And the

DAN! people are being less precise and getting results anyhow! HAve

hope!

>

> I am trying to remeber to clean up my posts.

> Peace,

> Adrienne

> Re: Yasko List

>

>

> I think the Yasko stuff belongs on its own list, with perhaps an

occasional

> update here as to what is going on. People interested in Yasko

can subscribe

> to both. I would do the testing if I could afford it.

>

> THose like me with cognitive impairment and very low energy even

find it

> difficult to find non Yasko stuff in DIgest mode..... this in

addition to my

> frequent plea for folks to trim their posts.

>

> I've deleted about the last 15 digests without even opening them.

>

> I've been a member since about 2000

>

> mjh

> " The Basil Book "

> http://foxhillfarm.us/FireBasil/

>

>

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Yes, the over 90%, positive for the Cardiac Diastolic Dysfunction is from him,

probably in the PFO paper that Carol S posted, and maybe in the announcement for

his Sept 9th lecture.

I think it is 99 out of 100 patients tested.

He has a PFO percent also, pretty high...but that is from a hanful tested, since

it was found in one patient and he knew to look for it.

The basic immediate treatment for DD might be called " simple " ...if you don't

mind having your feet up 24/7 plus more.

But erratic blood flow of inadequate blood volume, and all the compensatory

results are very serious, multi-systemic, damaging and complex to address.

He will be addressing this Cardiac phenomenon in his 3 HR lecture.

Katrina

P.S. Dr. Cheney continues to address microbes,Brain abnormalities/injury, Immune

System, DNA gene expression, viral induced RNase-L activity. Glutathione

deficit, Peroxynitrite, oxidative stress,

etc.etc.etc.

> >

> > Hi, Marilyn,

> > I would like to encourage you to think that where there's a will,

> there's a way.

> > I was all het up about getting the cardiovascular testing done, but

> it has taken me so long to get that together and now, voila, news

> comes that 90% of the people Cheney tests have the defect, so it

> begins to make sense to begin treating without testing. Most of that

> treatment is easy.

> >

> > Perhaps you have not grasped it, but I was pushing Rich, and so he

> came up with that list of questions he ask some folks which allow one

> to make inferences about the mutations and figure at least some of it

> out without testing.

> > And now there is that very helpful clue, (it needs sorting out to

> be sure), that we adults don't even need her whole program. And the

> DAN! people are being less precise and getting results anyhow! HAve

> hope!

> >

> > I am trying to remeber to clean up my posts.

> > Peace,

> > Adrienne

> > Re: Yasko List

> >

> >

> > I think the Yasko stuff belongs on its own list, with perhaps an

> occasional

> > update here as to what is going on. People interested in Yasko

> can subscribe

> > to both. I would do the testing if I could afford it.

> >

> > THose like me with cognitive impairment and very low energy even

> find it

> > difficult to find non Yasko stuff in DIgest mode..... this in

> addition to my

> > frequent plea for folks to trim their posts.

> >

> > I've deleted about the last 15 digests without even opening them.

> >

> > I've been a member since about 2000

> >

> > mjh

> > " The Basil Book "

> > http://foxhillfarm.us/FireBasil/

> >

> >

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Adrienne:

Popping in here, but I'm sure Katrina will reply too.

My understanding of the heart problem is that something has weakened

the mitochondria so the heart muscles are operating under an energy

deficit, which worsens when the gravitational stress of being upright

has to be dealt with. So Cheney told me to either recline or sit with

my feet up 22 hours a day. My heart gets a whole lot worse on his

machines when I'm tilted upright.

Right now I am sitting at the computer with my feet on the edge of

the seat and my knees bent up, reaching around then to type, and have

done that for years. Looks weird as hell, but I was instinctively

protecting my circulatory flow. Now I do it on purpose.

Standing is to be avoided and one should move the legs, step forwards

and back or to the side if caught standing in line or talking to

someone, my personal nemesis when out in the world. Might look like

you need to urinate, but if you have CFIDS, you probably do!

Besides the pig cells, Cheney's top recommended treatments as of last

April were B12, magnesium,(both injected) nexavir, and hawthorn.

Number 5 was Enada NADH.

Helen

>

> Katrina,

> Thanks. I really have, apparently, only a superficial understanding

of the treatment. Aside from the porcine cells, I thought it was a

matter of taking supplements. What are you talking about 24/7 feet

elevated? If I am not moving around, mine already pretty much are,

anyway. Not absolutely, but almost. Please, could you give a summary

of whatever else I may be missing.

> I am quite clear that I have some level of heart involvement.

Everytime I have been on an upswing, as now, increasing my activity

led to chest pain or pressure or palpitations. In oct. when I

returned from near sea-level to my regular altitude, I wound up a few

days later in the emergency w. a diagnosis of angina. I know that is

not the same as DD., but I do need to take care of my heart.

> Adrienne

>

>

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