Re: sleep study - amytripiline - other suggestions for stage 3/4 sle

[Guest guest]

Niacin during the day to help with serotonin conversion and Melatonin at

bedtime.

SAM-e after 3 pm will keep most folks awake most of the night.

I used to get my SAM-e by the case from _www.naturesrx.com_

(http://www.naturesrx.com) when I was taking 1200 to 1600 mg before 3pm per

day.

mjh

"

> Would amitrypiline make the situation worse ?

>

> Also, what are some other suggestions I could try to increase my stage

> 3/4 sleep ?

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

>

>>

> SAM-e after 3 pm will keep most folks awake most of the night.

>

Since I started taking 200 mg of SAMe at night before bed, my sleep

has been much improved. I do seem to do well with a large numeber of

methyl donors, of which SAMe is one.

[Guest guest]

Janet

Certainly you jest!!!!

Isn't this list bogged down enough without endless reposting of the same

stuff?

Have you considered uploading your genetics to webspace and then including a

link to your genes in your signature line?

mjh

" The Basil Book "

_http://foxhillfarm.us/FireBasil/_ (http://foxhillfarm.us/FireBasil/)

It would be great if we could figure out a way to just once list our

genetics and that would show up on every email we send.

[Guest guest]

Genetic listing takes about two lines. And to probably treat and advise one

another, as we go along it will become more and more important to read the

different genetics of each person.

We will need to include each person's genetics at the end of each post.

Otherwise, because we are all individuals, what might work for one, will not

work for another. My genetics look like this:

Believe it or not this will become second nature to us. It is not as hard as

it looks.

ACE Del 16 +/+, CBS A360A +/+ All COMT +/- MAO A +/- MTHFR (A1298C +/- MTRR

(A66G) +/- SUOX +/- All VDR +/-

Janet

foxhillers@... wrote:

Janet

Certainly you jest!!!!

Isn't this list bogged down enough without endless reposting of the same

stuff?

Have you considered uploading your genetics to webspace and then including a

link to your genes in your signature line?

mjh

" The Basil Book "

_http://foxhillfarm.us/FireBasil/_ (http://foxhillfarm.us/FireBasil/)

It would be great if we could figure out a way to just once list our

genetics and that would show up on every email we send.

[Guest guest]

Janet, you're right. No matter how much you spend, " it " will not fit

properly.

I never said genetics was junk. And after all, after another length

of time, you may find your answers in your own junk DNA.

Good luck to you in the search. In the meantime, in your squirrel

hunt, please leave the crumbs off your trail. A great many of us are

not following your lead. We may be marveling at the foliage beaten

down in hot pursuit, but we're just watching.

in Champaign IL

>

> ,

>

> Its like buying a shoe. If you don't know the size, no matter how

much you spend, the shoe will not fit properly! Genetics, junk, I

don't think so. It could be our way out. WE have looked at alot of

things and we are still ill. If one takes this in little bites, after

awhile, it all makes sense and not so much a brain drain..

>

> Janet

>

[Guest guest]

As a new person to this list I'd find it really helpful if someone could direct

me to some good links which explain Yasko. And how I would find out my genetic

profile.

I'm in Australia.

[Guest guest]

Personally, I don't mind if she adds two lines to her signature. Yours

says, " In Champaign, IL. " That's your choice, to let us know where you

are in the U.S., for whatever reason. Nobody asks you not to.

> >

> > ,

> >

> > Its like buying a shoe. If you don't know the size, no matter how

> much you spend, the shoe will not fit properly! Genetics, junk, I

> don't think so. It could be our way out. WE have looked at alot of

> things and we are still ill. If one takes this in little bites, after

> awhile, it all makes sense and not so much a brain drain..

> >

> > Janet

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I suspect there are two reasons.

1) Expense. I used to get a lot of hostility, more than on this list,

at one point on lymenet and at another point on Infection &

Inflammation, when I spoke about hyperbaric oxygen, which has been so

important to me. Well, it's a very expensive therapy and people

understandably resent hearing about something they can't afford,

although I don't think its therefore valid to attack the therapy or

person, which happened to me many times.

2) Complexity. This is extremely complex material that takes months of

study. I've realized I have to study the ewhole autismanswer site and

make a file or multiple nested files on my hard drive. I'm going to

have to organize this as I learn. It'll be months yet, and I " ve

watched all the DVDs already and have something of an affinity for

genetics (or believe I do).

This leads people to despair. Some of tne supplements are very

expensive (such as bh4). The testing is expensive, and in fact, I'm

going to forego the OAT and UAA for now for that reason. The subject

is not simple, as someone was asking a few jmonths ago for something

more cookie cutter.

> > >

> > > ,

> > >

> > > All I can say is your ANGER seems to be really holding you back

> > from healing . . sorry you are so closed minded to something that

> > no doubt is saving my life and many others

> > > You should be thrilled Yasko is an asset to this group . . maybe

> > you need a break . . .woman!! . . an maybe from this group. Can you

> > take a vacation . . the hatred is eating you up!!

> > >

> > > Sue T

> >

>

[Guest guest]

,

There are several different issues here:

A) Opinion of the importance of the Rich/Yasko program or if it is cause and

cure

Opinion about it dominating this list.

C) Reasonableness and respect used on these issues.

These should have been seperate issues.

People have been asking perfectly reasonable questions about this plan for

several weeks. Some Yasko people were put on warning/moderation weeks ago for

being abusive, unhelpful and not posting their *treatments*, on this *treatment*

list.

Several people got very nasty backchannel mail....some who did not report it and

some did.

There was valid questioning of several points on Yasko, including correction of

false statements, or that it is " proven " , and questioning it being touted as

cause and cure when no one has been cited who is in remission from it...and

barely anyone on it at all and only one feeling better from it.

This has always been questioned vehemently on this list.

People have been visciously attacked on and off list for questioning either the

plan itself or it's dominance here. They have attempted to explain the context

of their concerns....all of which have been mocked, they and their illness

psychologised...*knowingly*, the nastiest blow to a PWC, taunted for their

cognitive deficits and perceived lack of income. ANd now you pronounce to

someone she has no argument, but only lies and manipulation??!! Has anyone

looked in the mirror lately?

Others too have said they don't even want to know or care what is making people

sick and overloaded by the complexity, length and volume of the posts.

Yasko proponents have not only expressed no concern that people are skipping

whole digests of posts or leaving the list, but have actually ordered them to do

so.(to some of the longest term members).

There are significant numbers of people who are not interested in this topic.

There are alot of others who are/WERE very interested, but in a full format of

it's own. And/or full discussion of other theories/treatments here, a number of

which have been mocked or dismissed much more swiftly than this one.

There are others who are saying nothing, as it is clear what happens to people

who speak out...a very bullying, intimidating environment, especially to the

most vulnerable.

It is not true that everyone is as fragile as others...this varies widely in

this group and a committment has been made to be considerate of the most

extreme. Instead people's limitations have been mocked and dismissed.

THere are plenty of people, and volume of information for a Yasko group of it's

own. Especially since the volume and discussions will grow considerably. And

messages are at over 100 a day now.

It is impossible to declare that most want this topic dominating.

Are you prepared for every other treatment modality, for which no one here has

been treated, or helped, and no one by a CFS Specialist, to take up hundreds of

posts a week...in the spirit of fairness?

WHat should have been 2 separate issues have merged into one horrid

controversy...that alone calls the topic into question.

The exchanges here, in this crowded atmosphere have caused this issue to be far

more polarized than it needed to be.

very very sad.

Katrina

> > > >

> > > > ,

> > > >

> > > > All I can say is your ANGER seems to be really holding you back

> > > from healing . . sorry you are so closed minded to something that

> > > no doubt is saving my life and many others

> > > > You should be thrilled Yasko is an asset to this group . . maybe

> > > you need a break . . .woman!! . . an maybe from this group. Can you

> > > take a vacation . . the hatred is eating you up!!

> > > >

> > > > Sue T

>

[Guest guest]

Genetics often only tell a very small amount of what is actually going

on in the body. Say you have an SNP that controls the rate that an

enzyme like ACE converts angiotensin I to angiotensin II. That doesn't

necessarily tell you how many angiotensin II will be produced in your

body from angiotensin I. If your body produces more angiotensin I, you

will still end up with as much angiotensin II as someone without that

SNP. Only a test for angiotensin II will tell you how much of that you

have. An SNP also doesn't tell you how much ACE you have in your

body. You may have a faster ACE, but your body may have less ACE, so

the amount of angiotensin II is unchanged. Only an ACE test will you

show you that.

And with any enzyme, there are other factors, such as cytokines and

hormones, that can affect an enzyme's activity. Plus, there are

alternative pathways to consider. I.e., there are often more than one

enzyme in the body that creates the same substance. I.e. Chymase can

also produce angiotensin II. Finally, you have to consider the

activity of receptors for angiotensin II. Your body can compensate for

more angiotensin II, by having less amount of angiotensin II receptors,

so it is less sensitive to angiotensin II. Or perhaps you have an SNP

for the receptors that affects how they react to angiotensin II.

And of course, you simply may have other SNPs or gene mutations that no

one has tested for, or which have yet to be discovered.

A listing of a very small amount SNPs that you have, can't subsitute

for real lab tests. They only tell you what " might " be going on in

your body.

> Genetic listing takes about two lines. And to probably treat and

advise one another, as we go along it will become more and more

important to read the different genetics of each person.