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Re: Heparin/HLE

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I have had some ischemic strokes, 2 years after identifying myself as

PWC, for which the causes have not been definitively determined..

Needless to say I was intrigued by the Hemex explanation of my

experiences, as it seemed to explain it all...

I have spent a lot of time with Hematologists since, and none has found

any hypercoagulation factors.

I did have the Hemex ISAC panel, which was inconclusive - they said the

blood sample must have been handled incorrectly..

Having had all of the most advanced coagulation tests on offer by some

of the most respected hematologists who totally dismissed the Hemex

ideas, I did not submit new sample.

But, my questions about the connections between CFS and hypercoagulation

remain, as they have combined in my case, although " Medicine " cannot

explain it to me.

Is there some other possible explanation for a hypercoagulable state

which would not show up as an APS marker, or other factor, but might

still cause a clot to form in my brain?

I tried Heparin, still believing the Hemex theory (which I cannot say

conclusively is wrong BTW), and did not notice much of a change except

that I could suddenly feel sleepy, which I had not for years. The

hematologists who dismissed Heparin could not explain this. Stopping the

Heparin ($50/day so it had to end) ended the sleepiness. I have not had

a nap since.

That's my story as regards heparin.

Colin

spite.check wrote:

>

>

> Ran across the pubmed abstract on heparin a few days ago, thought the

> old post was worth a BUMP. Switched off the heparin and on to Natto

> based on berg thinking everybody with cfids has hypercoagulable state

> even tho i never got the hemex tests and don't know that has been shown

> to be true? Can't bump an old post? maybe it will bump up by itself

> tomorrow.

>

> Searched site for Heparin + elastase.

>

> Anybody document HLE improved with heparin?

>

> My fridge just lost 10,000 units. [:)]

>

>

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Hi, Colin.

Have you tried any of the nonprescription anti-hypercoagulation

remedies, such as nattokinase or lumbrokinase? Some PWCs have found

them to be helpful, and have noticed that their hands, formerly cold

all the time, became warm.

Rich

> >

> >

> > Ran across the pubmed abstract on heparin a few days ago,

thought the

> > old post was worth a BUMP. Switched off the heparin and on to

Natto

> > based on berg thinking everybody with cfids has hypercoagulable

state

> > even tho i never got the hemex tests and don't know that has

been shown

> > to be true? Can't bump an old post? maybe it will bump up by

itself

> > tomorrow.

> >

> > Searched site for Heparin + elastase.

> >

> > Anybody document HLE improved with heparin?

> >

> > My fridge just lost 10,000 units. [:)]

> >

> >

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Hi, Colin.

One more thing: I don't have CFS, but I did have a TIA a few years

ago that resulted in temporary loss of ability to use short-term

memory. Really a strange experience. It followed a very stressful

time in which I was struggling to meet a deadline. Fortunately, it

resolved itself in about 3 hours. Since then, I have taken several

things to try to prevent a recurrence, and have not had one,

thankfully. These have included bromelain, vitamin E (including the

gamma tocopherol), flax oil, and ginkgo biloba. When I accidentally

cut myself now, my blood seems to be quite " thin, " but it clots and

stops bleeding in a normal amount of time. The ER doctor at the

time recommended that I take aspirin daily, but I didn't want to do

that, for my stomach's sake.

Rich

> >

> >

> > Ran across the pubmed abstract on heparin a few days ago,

thought the

> > old post was worth a BUMP. Switched off the heparin and on to

Natto

> > based on berg thinking everybody with cfids has hypercoagulable

state

> > even tho i never got the hemex tests and don't know that has

been shown

> > to be true? Can't bump an old post? maybe it will bump up by

itself

> > tomorrow.

> >

> > Searched site for Heparin + elastase.

> >

> > Anybody document HLE improved with heparin?

> >

> > My fridge just lost 10,000 units. [:)]

> >

> >

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Hi Rich -

I did not experience any improvementd from bromelain or natto, after

trying for some time.

I was on warfarin (coumadin) for 2 years, and know what thin blood is like!

This did not help me either, except from having more strokes, which I

have not had, AFIK.

When I had my second stroke I turned up at the ER with and INR of 4.7,

which means my blood was 4.7 times a thin as a normal persons, so

whatever caused the stroke was likely not a clot.... No one on my

medical team has explained it yet.. No surprise.

I am taking 1 325 mg aspirin these days.

Thanks -

Colin

rvankonynen wrote:

>

> Hi, Colin.

>

> One more thing: I don't have CFS, but I did have a TIA a few years

> ago that resulted in temporary loss of ability to use short-term

> memory. Really a strange experience. It followed a very stressful

> time in which I was struggling to meet a deadline. Fortunately, it

> resolved itself in about 3 hours. Since then, I have taken several

> things to try to prevent a recurrence, and have not had one,

> thankfully. These have included bromelain, vitamin E (including the

> gamma tocopherol), flax oil, and ginkgo biloba. When I accidentally

> cut myself now, my blood seems to be quite " thin, " but it clots and

> stops bleeding in a normal amount of time. The ER doctor at the

> time recommended that I take aspirin daily, but I didn't want to do

> that, for my stomach's sake.

>

> Rich

>

>

> > >

> > >

> > > Ran across the pubmed abstract on heparin a few days ago,

> thought the

> > > old post was worth a BUMP. Switched off the heparin and on to

> Natto

> > > based on berg thinking everybody with cfids has hypercoagulable

> state

> > > even tho i never got the hemex tests and don't know that has

> been shown

> > > to be true? Can't bump an old post? maybe it will bump up by

> itself

> > > tomorrow.

> > >

> > > Searched site for Heparin + elastase.

> > >

> > > Anybody document HLE improved with heparin?

> > >

> > > My fridge just lost 10,000 units. [:)]

> > >

> > >

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Hi, Colin.

As you probably know, there are two general types of strokes: those

caused by clots, and those caused by hemorrhages. It sounds as

though your second stroke, at least, may have been of the hemorrhage

type. Have your doctors considered the possibility that you might

have HYPOcoagulation?

What does your sed rate measure out to be? Have you had your von

Willebrand factor measured?

Rich

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Ran across the pubmed abstract on heparin a few days ago,

> > thought the

> > > > old post was worth a BUMP. Switched off the heparin and on to

> > Natto

> > > > based on berg thinking everybody with cfids has

hypercoagulable

> > state

> > > > even tho i never got the hemex tests and don't know that has

> > been shown

> > > > to be true? Can't bump an old post? maybe it will bump up by

> > itself

> > > > tomorrow.

> > > >

> > > > Searched site for Heparin + elastase.

> > > >

> > > > Anybody document HLE improved with heparin?

> > > >

> > > > My fridge just lost 10,000 units. [:)]

> > > >

> > > >

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Hi Rich -

It was not a hemmorage. I am not sure of my sed rate, but I once

presented info on the Hemex idea to a hematologist and he said something

like " if that were true your sed rate would be abnormal and it isn't " .

The other possibility besides clots and bleeding is vascular disease,

inflamation of the brains vessels cutting of blood flow. I had a " clean

as a whistle' cerebral angiogram, so this is no longer under consideration.

I don't know of the top of my head what my von Willebrand factor is.

The last round of hematology did not turn up any factors which were

worrisome at all. I had slightly above normal lp(A) which is a possible

stroke risk increaser. Mine was 38, my dad's is 168, and he had an early

heart attack for no good reason too. I thought this was the culprit, but

it does not appear to be at this point.

Any idea why the heparin made me sleepy?

Thanks -

Colin

rvankonynen wrote:

>

> Hi, Colin.

>

> As you probably know, there are two general types of strokes: those

> caused by clots, and those caused by hemorrhages. It sounds as

> though your second stroke, at least, may have been of the hemorrhage

> type. Have your doctors considered the possibility that you might

> have HYPOcoagulation?

>

> What does your sed rate measure out to be? Have you had your von

> Willebrand factor measured?

>

> Rich

>

>

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Ran across the pubmed abstract on heparin a few days ago,

> > > thought the

> > > > > old post was worth a BUMP. Switched off the heparin and on to

> > > Natto

> > > > > based on berg thinking everybody with cfids has

> hypercoagulable

> > > state

> > > > > even tho i never got the hemex tests and don't know that has

> > > been shown

> > > > > to be true? Can't bump an old post? maybe it will bump up by

> > > itself

> > > > > tomorrow.

> > > > >

> > > > > Searched site for Heparin + elastase.

> > > > >

> > > > > Anybody document HLE improved with heparin?

> > > > >

> > > > > My fridge just lost 10,000 units. [:)]

> > > > >

> > > > >

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Hi, Colin.

Here's another hypothesis for you to shoot at:

Maybe you have low total blood volume and your sympathetic nervous

system is working overtime to keep your blood pressure up so that

you get sufficient blood flow to your brain. When you took heparin,

maybe it thinned your blood and lowered your blood pressure, and the

lowered blood supply to your brain made you sleepy.

Rich

>

> Hi Rich -

>

> It was not a hemmorage. I am not sure of my sed rate, but I once

> presented info on the Hemex idea to a hematologist and he said

something

> like " if that were true your sed rate would be abnormal and it

isn't " .

>

> The other possibility besides clots and bleeding is vascular

disease,

> inflamation of the brains vessels cutting of blood flow. I had

a " clean

> as a whistle' cerebral angiogram, so this is no longer under

consideration.

>

> I don't know of the top of my head what my von Willebrand factor

is.

> The last round of hematology did not turn up any factors which

were

> worrisome at all. I had slightly above normal lp(A) which is a

possible

> stroke risk increaser. Mine was 38, my dad's is 168, and he had an

early

> heart attack for no good reason too. I thought this was the

culprit, but

> it does not appear to be at this point.

>

> Any idea why the heparin made me sleepy?

>

> Thanks -

>

> Colin

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OK. Thanks.. How do I shoot at it?

I had been on warfarin for the prior two years, which would also have

thinned it, so this does not totally explain it. Maybe warfarin and

heparin thin it differently, and the part that warfarin was not thining

was sudden thinned by the heparin. Too bad I could not stay on it. At

$50/day, I could only afford a month of it.

My blood pressure has always been " good " - I was on a monitor for about

8 straight weeks in the hospital, and it was always stable and " good " ,

although I do not remember the #s. 80 - 90 over 110 / 120 or so is my

best memory (??)

Thanks -

C

rvankonynen wrote:

>

> Hi, Colin.

>

> Here's another hypothesis for you to shoot at:

>

> Maybe you have low total blood volume and your sympathetic nervous

> system is working overtime to keep your blood pressure up so that

> you get sufficient blood flow to your brain. When you took heparin,

> maybe it thinned your blood and lowered your blood pressure, and the

> lowered blood supply to your brain made you sleepy.

>

> Rich

>

>

> >

> > Hi Rich -

> >

> > It was not a hemmorage. I am not sure of my sed rate, but I once

> > presented info on the Hemex idea to a hematologist and he said

> something

> > like " if that were true your sed rate would be abnormal and it

> isn't " .

> >

> > The other possibility besides clots and bleeding is vascular

> disease,

> > inflamation of the brains vessels cutting of blood flow. I had

> a " clean

> > as a whistle' cerebral angiogram, so this is no longer under

> consideration.

> >

> > I don't know of the top of my head what my von Willebrand factor

> is.

> > The last round of hematology did not turn up any factors which

> were

> > worrisome at all. I had slightly above normal lp(A) which is a

> possible

> > stroke risk increaser. Mine was 38, my dad's is 168, and he had an

> early

> > heart attack for no good reason too. I thought this was the

> culprit, but

> > it does not appear to be at this point.

> >

> > Any idea why the heparin made me sleepy?

> >

> > Thanks -

> >

> > Colin

>

>

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Hi, Colin.

I'd say that you got in a couple of very good shots! So much for

that one! I'll have to do some studying before I can send up

another one. I think your idea is a good place to start, though.

What does heparin do that warfarin doesn't?

Rich

> > >

> > > Hi Rich -

> > >

> > > It was not a hemmorage. I am not sure of my sed rate, but I

once

> > > presented info on the Hemex idea to a hematologist and he said

> > something

> > > like " if that were true your sed rate would be abnormal and it

> > isn't " .

> > >

> > > The other possibility besides clots and bleeding is vascular

> > disease,

> > > inflamation of the brains vessels cutting of blood flow. I had

> > a " clean

> > > as a whistle' cerebral angiogram, so this is no longer under

> > consideration.

> > >

> > > I don't know of the top of my head what my von Willebrand

factor

> > is.

> > > The last round of hematology did not turn up any factors which

> > were

> > > worrisome at all. I had slightly above normal lp(A) which is a

> > possible

> > > stroke risk increaser. Mine was 38, my dad's is 168, and he

had an

> > early

> > > heart attack for no good reason too. I thought this was the

> > culprit, but

> > > it does not appear to be at this point.

> > >

> > > Any idea why the heparin made me sleepy?

> > >

> > > Thanks -

> > >

> > > Colin

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

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I've read that heparin has antiviral and immune modulating properties (which

warfarin doesn't).

Trina

rvankonynen <richvank@...> wrote:

Hi, Colin.

I'd say that you got in a couple of very good shots! So much for

that one! I'll have to do some studying before I can send up

another one. I think your idea is a good place to start, though.

What does heparin do that warfarin doesn't?

Rich

> > >

> > > Hi Rich -

> > >

> > > It was not a hemmorage. I am not sure of my sed rate, but I

once

> > > presented info on the Hemex idea to a hematologist and he said

> > something

> > > like " if that were true your sed rate would be abnormal and it

> > isn't " .

> > >

> > > The other possibility besides clots and bleeding is vascular

> > disease,

> > > inflamation of the brains vessels cutting of blood flow. I had

> > a " clean

> > > as a whistle' cerebral angiogram, so this is no longer under

> > consideration.

> > >

> > > I don't know of the top of my head what my von Willebrand

factor

> > is.

> > > The last round of hematology did not turn up any factors which

> > were

> > > worrisome at all. I had slightly above normal lp(A) which is a

> > possible

> > > stroke risk increaser. Mine was 38, my dad's is 168, and he

had an

> > early

> > > heart attack for no good reason too. I thought this was the

> > culprit, but

> > > it does not appear to be at this point.

> > >

> > > Any idea why the heparin made me sleepy?

> > >

> > > Thanks -

> > >

> > > Colin

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

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