Re: Premenstrual Stabilization with Severe M.E.?

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

It's been awhile since I was in either category as your client, but I recall a

similar pattern, when I was the most severe.

A day or so before was when I got dreadfully sick...

I went to a Chinese acupuncturist and made potent herbal tea she prescribed, and

had really dramatic relief. It was very obvious from the treatment (needles) and

tea, because even my skin and hair changed by the same night. (People will swear

the hair thing is not possible, but there it was...what can I say?).

I had no ME/CFS medical guidance and did not know anything about it/hormones.

(Scientifically).

In my support group, some members became the very worst a week or so before

period, including suicidal. We would ask/remind each other about PMS/CFIDS, and

that that moment would pass.

TC,

Katrina

>

> Hi! The young woman I assist with severe M.E. has asked me to find out

> why she experiences the OPPOSITE of PMS during day 14-27 of her cycle?

> The two weeks before blood flow, perhaps because of the high levels

> of Progesterone, her symptoms lessen and she feels more stable. Then

> with the progesterone drop that comes just before the blood flow, her

> energy plummets and her symptoms worsen again.

>

> Is this a common trend with severe M.E.? In normal hormone function,

> it seems to be the trend to get bloated, moody, PMS-y during that

> time. Why is she feeling so much better during that time?

>

> Thanks for any thoughts or advice!

>

> -

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I too get a back to front sort of PMS. I feel at my best the week

before a period and feel unquestionably worse the week of it/following

it. I would say that I am also experiencing peri-menopausal symptoms

too, but have found this altered pattern has existed since having

children in 1987/88. (My ME pre-dates all of this back to 1970).

Rosie

BTW. I have done the HRT thing twice to try to address this and other

possibly related hormone/ME problems - big mistake both times!!

Subject: Premenstrual Stabilization with Severe

M.E.?

Hi! The young woman I assist with severe M.E. has asked me to find out

why she experiences the OPPOSITE of PMS during day 14-27 of her cycle?

The two weeks before blood flow, perhaps because of the high levels

of Progesterone, her symptoms lessen and she feels more stable. Then

with the progesterone drop that comes just before the blood flow, her

energy plummets and her symptoms worsen again.

Is this a common trend with severe M.E.? In normal hormone function,

it seems to be the trend to get bloated, moody, PMS-y during that

time. Why is she feeling so much better during that time?

Thanks for any thoughts or advice!

-

[Guest guest]

Hi :

For years I suffered horrible PMS symptoms; severe mood swings, extreme

water weight gain, migraine HA, cravings etc. from about day 9 to the

beginning of my cycle. I found relief when a doctor (ahead of his time)

prescribed natural progesterone sublingually that I had made at a

compounding pharmacy. I took it from day 12-28 and got off it to bring on

the flow. It truly was a miracle. So I would say that the women you

assist is very lucky indeed to have naturally high progesterone levels

(it sounds). Having symptoms a day or two prior to menses is IMO just the

normal way it is for most ladies. This is because both estrogen and

progesterone drop for the cycle/flow (usually coinciding with an increase

in symptoms)...then begin to rise slowly again after the flow - first

with estrogen and then with progesterone rising a great deal upon

midcycle ovulation giving feelings of well-being if your hormones are

right. Unfortunately, it never worked that way for me :-(

Best Regards,

Teena

On Fri, 25 Aug 2006 10:58:20 -0000 " " <kelly@...> writes:

> Hi! The young woman I assist with severe M.E. has asked me to find

> out

> why she experiences the OPPOSITE of PMS during day 14-27 of her

> cycle?

> The two weeks before blood flow, perhaps because of the high levels

> of Progesterone, her symptoms lessen and she feels more stable. Then

> with the progesterone drop that comes just before the blood flow,

> her

> energy plummets and her symptoms worsen again.

>

> Is this a common trend with severe M.E.? In normal hormone

> function,

> it seems to be the trend to get bloated, moody, PMS-y during that

> time. Why is she feeling so much better during that time?

>

> Thanks for any thoughts or advice!

>

> -

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi, and ladies.

I don't have this completely figured out yet, but I'm beginning to

think that one of the things we should look at in women with CFS is

how their bodies individually lower their estradiol level at the

times in the cycle when it is being lowered. I suspect that both

the rate of production and the rate of breakdown (detox) are

involved. Perhaps there is an upregulation in the gene expression

for the detox enzymes at the times when the estrogen level is

supposed to drop. If the particular woman has a SNP in her CYP1B1

detox enzyme, and perhaps also in her COMT and/or her GST enzymes,

it could be that her body therefore generates more oxidizing free

radicals at that time, pushing her further into oxidative stress and

lowering her glutathione level further. The differences between how

different female PWCs respond to their menstrual cycles might depend

on which SNPs they have in the enzymes that break down estradiol.

The same could be true for how female PWCs respond to pregnancy.

Some feel a lot better during pregnancy. Some don't.

As I say, this is kind of a half-baked idea, but so far every PWC

who has sent me their Detoxigenomic profile has had a SNP in

CYP1B1. Quite a few, but not all, also have COMT SNPs and SNPs in

their GST enzymes. Maybe if we get enough data together we can

start to see if there are correlations in menstrual cycle response

and detox enzyme SNPs.

Rich

>

> Hi! The young woman I assist with severe M.E. has asked me to find

out

> why she experiences the OPPOSITE of PMS during day 14-27 of her

cycle?

> The two weeks before blood flow, perhaps because of the high

levels

> of Progesterone, her symptoms lessen and she feels more stable.

Then

> with the progesterone drop that comes just before the blood flow,

her

> energy plummets and her symptoms worsen again.

>

> Is this a common trend with severe M.E.? In normal hormone

function,

> it seems to be the trend to get bloated, moody, PMS-y during that

> time. Why is she feeling so much better during that time?

>

> Thanks for any thoughts or advice!

>

> -

>

[Guest guest]

Although I've had both versions. Early in my illness, I was better before my

period and worse during it. Now I'm worse before my period and better during it.

So maybe something gets burnt out or something.

Trina

rvankonynen <richvank@...> wrote:

Hi, and ladies.

I don't have this completely figured out yet, but I'm beginning to

think that one of the things we should look at in women with CFS is

how their bodies individually lower their estradiol level at the

times in the cycle when it is being lowered. I suspect that both

the rate of production and the rate of breakdown (detox) are

involved. Perhaps there is an upregulation in the gene expression

for the detox enzymes at the times when the estrogen level is

supposed to drop. If the particular woman has a SNP in her CYP1B1

detox enzyme, and perhaps also in her COMT and/or her GST enzymes,

it could be that her body therefore generates more oxidizing free

radicals at that time, pushing her further into oxidative stress and

lowering her glutathione level further. The differences between how

different female PWCs respond to their menstrual cycles might depend

on which SNPs they have in the enzymes that break down estradiol.

The same could be true for how female PWCs respond to pregnancy.

Some feel a lot better during pregnancy. Some don't.

As I say, this is kind of a half-baked idea, but so far every PWC

who has sent me their Detoxigenomic profile has had a SNP in

CYP1B1. Quite a few, but not all, also have COMT SNPs and SNPs in

their GST enzymes. Maybe if we get enough data together we can

start to see if there are correlations in menstrual cycle response

and detox enzyme SNPs.

Rich

>

> Hi! The young woman I assist with severe M.E. has asked me to find

out

> why she experiences the OPPOSITE of PMS during day 14-27 of her

cycle?

> The two weeks before blood flow, perhaps because of the high

levels

> of Progesterone, her symptoms lessen and she feels more stable.

Then

> with the progesterone drop that comes just before the blood flow,

her

> energy plummets and her symptoms worsen again.

>

> Is this a common trend with severe M.E.? In normal hormone

function,

> it seems to be the trend to get bloated, moody, PMS-y during that

> time. Why is she feeling so much better during that time?

>

> Thanks for any thoughts or advice!

>

> -

>

---------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

Hi, Trina.

Were the characteristics of the " worse " times the same, whenever

they did occur early and late in your illness? In other words, did

you feel the same, symptom-wise? Or does the " worse " time

feel 'worser " (I know that isn't a word!) later in your illness than

it did ealier? I'm trying to figure out if different things were

happening in the two situations.

I have to do some more studying of the behavior of the hormones.

Rich

>

> Although I've had both versions. Early in my illness, I was better

before my period and worse during it. Now I'm worse before my period

and better during it. So maybe something gets burnt out or something.

>

> Trina

[Guest guest]

Hm. I'm not sure. The first phase was so long ago now. I think the symptoms were

similar. The bad times now are definitely worse on an absolute scale since I am

overall much worse than I was then. But I don't know if they are relatively

worse or not--I think the level of crash is the same in both phases relative to

the normal level in both.

Trina

rvankonynen <richvank@...> wrote:

Hi, Trina.

Were the characteristics of the " worse " times the same, whenever

they did occur early and late in your illness? In other words, did

you feel the same, symptom-wise? Or does the " worse " time

feel 'worser " (I know that isn't a word!) later in your illness than

it did ealier? I'm trying to figure out if different things were

happening in the two situations.

I have to do some more studying of the behavior of the hormones.

Rich

>

> Although I've had both versions. Early in my illness, I was better

before my period and worse during it. Now I'm worse before my period

and better during it. So maybe something gets burnt out or something.

>

> Trina

---------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

Hi, Trina.

O.K., thanks. I need to study this some more.

Rich

> >

> > Although I've had both versions. Early in my illness, I was

better

> before my period and worse during it. Now I'm worse before my

period

> and better during it. So maybe something gets burnt out or

something.

> >

> > Trina

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> How low will we go? Check out Messenger's low PC-to-Phone

call rates.

>

>

[Guest guest]

>Dear ,

Having the OPPOSITE of PMS, from my experience, would be a very rare

problem.

Most of M.E. women patients have a marked deterioration in function

during the premenstrual phase of the menstrual cycle.

Amelia

> Hi! The young woman I assist with severe M.E. has asked me to find out

> why she experiences the OPPOSITE of PMS during day 14-27 of her cycle?

> The two weeks before blood flow, perhaps because of the high levels

> of Progesterone, her symptoms lessen and she feels more stable. Then

> with the progesterone drop that comes just before the blood flow, her

> energy plummets and her symptoms worsen again.

>

> Is this a common trend with severe M.E.? In normal hormone function,

> it seems to be the trend to get bloated, moody, PMS-y during that

> time. Why is she feeling so much better during that time?

>

> Thanks for any thoughts or advice!

>

> -

>

[Guest guest]

Hi,

Whereas I think I’m now in what could be described as a perimenopausal

state, I have had the phenomenon of feeling better pre-menstually, and

feeling particularly grotty in the week and ½ following day one. I have

mentioned this to docs and I understand it isn’t actually that uncommon

in women with ME. Having said that, I am best in the immediate 2 or 3

days premenstrually when both oestrogen and progesterone plummet. I’m

rather hoping that being truly menopausal – the sooner the better – will

actually make my ME generally more tolerable. Certainly since 1994 –

the time of the beginning of this recent (and worst) relapse – I have

had constant symptoms which suggest hormone inbalance / a long drawn out

perimenopause.

Rosie

>Dear ,

Having the OPPOSITE of PMS, from my experience, would be a very rare

problem.

Most of M.E. women patients have a marked deterioration in function

during the premenstrual phase of the menstrual cycle.

Amelia

> Hi! The young woman I assist with severe M.E. has asked me to find out

> why she experiences the OPPOSITE of PMS during day 14-27 of her cycle?

> The two weeks before blood flow, perhaps because of the high levels

> of Progesterone, her symptoms lessen and she feels more stable. Then

> with the progesterone drop that comes just before the blood flow, her

> energy plummets and her symptoms worsen again.

>

> Is this a common trend with severe M.E.? In normal hormone function,

> it seems to be the trend to get bloated, moody, PMS-y during that

> time. Why is she feeling so much better during that time?

>

> Thanks for any thoughts or advice!

>

> -

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

What Amelia described is definitely my experience. I have severe M.E.

and my weakness, pain and mental confusion become markedly worse

during my premenstrual phase. Although about 2 days before my period,

I feel a little better than I do the rest of the month. I have a

little more energy and clarity. The weakness is not as bad as at the

worst premenstrual phase, but no better than usual. So sometimes this

increased energy can be felt as an uncomfortable 'high', since my body

has no way to use it.

I'm not sure where to find it right now, but I have read a study in

which it was found progesterone is metabolised abnormally in M.E.

sufferers. During PMS, the metabolites can have an anaesthetic action,

which is why many of us experience a worsening.

> >Dear ,

>

> Having the OPPOSITE of PMS, from my experience, would be a very rare

> problem.

>

> Most of M.E. women patients have a marked deterioration in function

> during the premenstrual phase of the menstrual cycle.

>

> Amelia

>

>