Re: Looking for anti-viral aid

[Guest guest]

>

> Hi there,

> I know about several different anti-viral protocols but curious if

> there are new ones since I was on the list years ago. I have tried

> Coconut oil, Olive Leaf, Apple Cider Vinegar, Elderberry, Olive Oil

> with Lemon, Garlic with some success but was curious if there was

> anything new in this arena. Needing something very powerful.

>

> Currently on acyclovir and it helps as long as I have no physical

> issues. As soon as I don't sleep well, the viral symptoms return.

> Doc & I have continued to up the dose - currently at 1600mg per day.

>

///What are the " viral symptoms " ...swollen tender glands...

Have you ever had viral testing or redlabsusa testing?

there is a link to paper how DeMeirleir puts people in 3 groups and i

think that is a rationale grouping.

i'll have to find the link if you haven't; also i was surprised to

see the high (20%) involvement in one group with HHV6a (i don't think

it was HHV7) and this was CNS involvement i believe. the sicker

people (closer to bedridden) would probably benefit from valcyte

< " something very powerful " -doesn't get more potent than that>

(valgancyclovir) which penetrates the CNS (whereas valtrex/famvir

etc. won't). the study on immunesupport from stanford lasted 6 mo's

and same dose as for CMV retinitis, 450 mg 2x/d.

cheapest source, canadadrugs.com $1400 from what i could find.

if you could show a + viral test, you might try the pt assistance

program. hope this helps.

[Guest guest]

Viral Symptoms are tender glands, sore throat, flu-like symptoms,

brain fog, elevated temperature, bone-crushing fatigue, you know, the

usual!

I just found the link you mentioned below:

http://www.immunesupport.com/library/showarticle.cfm?

id=7245 & T=CFIDS_FM. I think I fit into Group 1.

When I got sick in 1999 - the Doc I saw suggested working on the

immune system rather than spending money on expensive tests. I

bought into that - (big mistake). Recently, I had limited testing

for several virus and tested positive for all that I was tested for

including HHV6a and CMV. (Seems I have been collecting viruses over

the years).

Thank you for the viral med info. I will research and discuss with

Doc next week. I am on County Health Insurance but Dr.'s are

limited. Trying to get referral to FFC or Dr. Salvato that might be

open to some of these tests.

Thanks for your help.

Marti Z.

> >

> > Currently on acyclovir and it helps as long as I have no physical

> > issues. As soon as I don't sleep well, the viral symptoms

return.

> > Doc & I have continued to up the dose - currently at 1600mg per

day.

> >

> ///What are the " viral symptoms " ...swollen tender glands...

> Have you ever had viral testing or redlabsusa testing?

> there is a link to paper how DeMeirleir puts people in 3 groups and

i

> think that is a rationale grouping.

> i'll have to find the link if you haven't; also i was surprised to

> see the high (20%) involvement in one group with HHV6a (i don't

think

> it was HHV7) and this was CNS involvement i believe. the sicker

> people (closer to bedridden) would probably benefit from valcyte

> < " something very powerful " -doesn't get more potent than that>

> (valgancyclovir) which penetrates the CNS (whereas valtrex/famvir

> etc. won't). the study on immunesupport from stanford lasted 6

mo's

> and same dose as for CMV retinitis, 450 mg 2x/d.

> cheapest source, canadadrugs.com $1400 from what i could find.

> if you could show a + viral test, you might try the pt assistance

> program. hope this helps.

>

[Guest guest]

Marti,

Do you tend to get every virus that comes along such as colds and flu?

I got sick in 1995 with swollen glands, tonsils, low grade fever but

my diagnosis after a few months was mycoplasma incognitus and I

responded to pretty much any antibiotic they gave me. (I learned 7

years later I also had borrelia or Lyme disease, but by that time I

had taken enough antibiotics that I wasn't terribly sick.) Initially

I had elevated EBV titres, but they returned to normal as soon as I

was put on penicillin for the throat inflammation. From then on I had

the cfs symptoms but literally never got any flu or colds for several

years. The first cold I got was a year when I was pretty much back to

normal.

Understand that there seem to be two extremes in cfs - the ones like

me who get nothing else and the ones who get terribly sick with

everything.

So I am wondering if your basic problem is viruses or bacterias? I am

also wondering if those with mainly viral problems also get colds and

flu?

a

>

> Viral Symptoms are tender glands, sore throat, flu-like symptoms,

> brain fog, elevated temperature, bone-crushing fatigue, you know,

the

> usual!

>

> I just found the link you mentioned below:

> http://www.immunesupport.com/library/showarticle.cfm?

> id=7245 & T=CFIDS_FM. I think I fit into Group 1.

>

> When I got sick in 1999 - the Doc I saw suggested working on the

> immune system rather than spending money on expensive tests. I

> bought into that - (big mistake). Recently, I had limited testing

> for several virus and tested positive for all that I was tested for

> including HHV6a and CMV. (Seems I have been collecting viruses

over

> the years).

>

> Thank you for the viral med info. I will research and discuss with

> Doc next week. I am on County Health Insurance but Dr.'s are

> limited. Trying to get referral to FFC or Dr. Salvato that might

be

> open to some of these tests.

>

> Thanks for your help.

> Marti Z.

>

[Guest guest]

Marti-

I strongly caution against intravenous hydrogen peroxide (H2O2).

H2O2 is a very strong oxidizer, strong enough that it's used as bleach

and rocket fuel. Because it's such a strong oxidizer, it's also an

effective antiseptic. Yes, it will kill bacteria and viruses, but it

might kill you too. Seriously, several people have died following IV

hydrogen peroxide, at least one of which was by multiple organ failure.

When H2O2 reacts with molecules in the body, it causes oxidative

stress, something PWCs need less of, not more. One of the reasons we

have vitamin C in our blood and vitamin E in our cell membranes is to

minimize the oxidative stress caused by H2O2. Because H2O2 is so

toxic, your body has an enzyme called catalase that's specifically

designed to destroy it.

Chronic oxidative stress is implicated in a huge number of modern

diseases, like rheumatoid arthritis, Alzheimer’s, Parkinson’s, heart

disease, asthma, cancer, and of course, CFS. Intravenous H2O2 is

likely to hurt you much more than it hurts any viruses.

I’m sorry to be such a downer, but I really don’t think this is

safe. There are other antiviral therapies that are much more likely

to produce results and much less likely to kill you.

-Steve W.

>

> Hi there,

> I know about several different anti-viral protocols but curious if

> there are new ones since I was on the list years ago. I have tried

> Coconut oil, Olive Leaf, Apple Cider Vinegar, Elderberry, Olive Oil

> with Lemon, Garlic with some success but was curious if there was

> anything new in this arena. Needing something very powerful.

>

> Currently on acyclovir and it helps as long as I have no physical

> issues. As soon as I don't sleep well, the viral symptoms return.

> Doc & I have continued to up the dose - currently at 1600mg per day.

>

> CURIOUS: Has anyone tried Hydrogen peroxide in any form such as

> IV's. or otherwise for control or elimination of any type of

> pathogens including viruses?

>

> Living north of Houston very near to sea level - still sick.

>

> Thanks everyone,

> Marti Z.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Marti. I'm using mjh's officinalis routine to beat down

any herpes viruses I may have (haven't been tested). I thought I

remembered reading that this was effective against CMV, too, but I may

be mistaken on that.

>

> Hi there,

> I know about several different anti-viral protocols but curious if

> there are new ones since I was on the list years ago. I have tried

> Coconut oil, Olive Leaf, Apple Cider Vinegar, Elderberry, Olive Oil

> with Lemon, Garlic with some success but was curious if there was

> anything new in this arena. Needing something very powerful.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Have you tried luteolin?

Gail

marti_zavala wrote:

>

> Hi there,

> I know about several different anti-viral protocols but curious if

> there are new ones since I was on the list years ago. I have tried

> Coconut oil, Olive Leaf, Apple Cider Vinegar, Elderberry, Olive Oil

> with Lemon, Garlic with some success but was curious if there was

> anything new in this arena. Needing something very powerful.

>

> Currently on acyclovir and it helps as long as I have no physical

> issues. As soon as I don't sleep well, the viral symptoms return.

> Doc & I have continued to up the dose - currently at 1600mg per day.

>

> CURIOUS: Has anyone tried Hydrogen peroxide in any form such as

> IV's. or otherwise for control or elimination of any type of

> pathogens including viruses?

>

> ALSO: Are there any Dr. Salvato patients on the list?

>

> I would like to get referred to a more knowledgeable CFIDS Doc who

> will be open to helping me with the Yasko protocol and documentation

> for disability.

>

> Living north of Houston very near to sea level - still sick.

>

> Thanks everyone,

> Marti Z.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Marti

You do not mention which viruses you are dealing with.

McCandless, MD, has good success with autistic children dealing

with their viral issues using Olive Leaf Extract (a particular brand) and

Virastop and Luaricidin and a couple of others.

I was successful in bringing EB and CMV under control with

officinalis tincture.

Lots of time people on natural things do not have the right type, the

correct dose and/or take it long enough.

mjh

" The Basil Book "

_http://foxhillfarm.us/FireBasil/_ (http://foxhillfarm.us/FireBasil/)

Posted by: " marti_zavala " _marti_zavala@... _

(mailto:marti_zavala@...?Subject=Re: Looking%20for%20anti-viral%20aid)

_marti_zavala _

(marti_zavala)

Thu Aug 24, 2006 9:43 pm (PST)

Hi there,

I know about several different anti-viral protocols but curious if

there are new ones since I was on the list years ago. I have tried

Coconut oil, Olive Leaf, Apple Cider Vinegar, Elderberry, Olive Oil

with Lemon, Garlic with some success but was curious if there was

anything new in this arena. Needing something very powerful.

Currently on acyclovir and it helps as long as I have no physical

issues. As soon as I don't sleep well, the viral symptoms return.

Doc & I have continued to up the dose - currently at 1600mg per day.

CURIOUS: Has anyone tried Hydrogen peroxide in any form such as

IV's. or otherwise for control or elimination of any type of

pathogens including viruses?

ALSO: Are there any Dr. Salvato patients on the list?

I would like to get referred to a more knowledgeable CFIDS Doc who

will be open to helping me with the Yasko protocol and documentation

for disability.

Living north of Houston very near to sea level - still sick.

Thanks everyone,

Marti Z.

[Guest guest]

, are you making your own tea as mjh did?

> >

> > Hi there,

> > I know about several different anti-viral protocols but curious if

> > there are new ones since I was on the list years ago. I have tried

> > Coconut oil, Olive Leaf, Apple Cider Vinegar, Elderberry, Olive Oil

> > with Lemon, Garlic with some success but was curious if there was

> > anything new in this arena. Needing something very powerful.

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Anything wrong with valtrex/ I'm tempted to try it even tho I don't

seem to have viral issues. But there are such good responses in

autistic kids, especially ones who reacted badly to the MMR vaccine,

or seemingly so. However, they do manifest the virus flaring up, and

getting rashes, fevers etc, usually while their behaviors improve.

Since this is all anecdotal one can't say much but I've been reading

about it. Even kids who don't have elevated viral titers seem to

respond. However, they seem to get fungal flareups sometimes at first

on the antivirals. One wonders what's happening. Are viruses and

funguses together suppressing immunity? Are viruses keeping fungi in

check? Is valtrex repairing methylation through reducing adenosine,

and are metals dumping, causing temporary immunosuppression as they

leave and flaring up fungus? There is a lot to examine.

> >

> > Hi there,

> > I know about several different anti-viral protocols but curious if

> > there are new ones since I was on the list years ago. I have tried

> > Coconut oil, Olive Leaf, Apple Cider Vinegar, Elderberry, Olive Oil

> > with Lemon, Garlic with some success but was curious if there was

> > anything new in this arena. Needing something very powerful.

> >

> > Currently on acyclovir and it helps as long as I have no physical

> > issues. As soon as I don't sleep well, the viral symptoms return.

> > Doc & I have continued to up the dose - currently at 1600mg per day.

> >

> > CURIOUS: Has anyone tried Hydrogen peroxide in any form such as

> > IV's. or otherwise for control or elimination of any type of

> > pathogens including viruses?

> >

> > ALSO: Are there any Dr. Salvato patients on the list?

> >

> > I would like to get referred to a more knowledgeable CFIDS Doc who

> > will be open to helping me with the Yasko protocol and documentation

> > for disability.

> >

> > Living north of Houston very near to sea level - still sick.

> >

> > Thanks everyone,

> > Marti Z.

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Jill,

I have had no problems with Valtrex. THis includes very high doses when the most

wretchedly ill, and low, shorter dosing since then. I feel it has addressed

both viral activity itself, and a kick-start of some sort, enabling other things

to work, and me to feel better.

When tested, I did have high antibodies to CMV, EBV, HHV6.

At the high doses, I was very uneasy about the dyes and fillers, but had no

obvious reaction. I think a person could wash the blue dye off of the pill, if

hyper sensitive.

About testing negative for viruses, don't forget that we (nor autistic children)

have access to all viral tests...and/or they have not all been discovered.

I haven't researched all of this lately, so can't comment on your interesting

questions.

Katrina

> > >

> > > Hi there,

> > > I know about several different anti-viral protocols but curious if

> > > there are new ones since I was on the list years ago. I have tried

> > > Coconut oil, Olive Leaf, Apple Cider Vinegar, Elderberry, Olive Oil

> > > with Lemon, Garlic with some success but was curious if there was

> > > anything new in this arena. Needing something very powerful.

> > >

> > > Currently on acyclovir and it helps as long as I have no physical

> > > issues. As soon as I don't sleep well, the viral symptoms return.

> > > Doc & I have continued to up the dose - currently at 1600mg per day.

> > >

> > > CURIOUS: Has anyone tried Hydrogen peroxide in any form such as

> > > IV's. or otherwise for control or elimination of any type of

> > > pathogens including viruses?

> > >

> > > ALSO: Are there any Dr. Salvato patients on the list?

> > >

> > > I would like to get referred to a more knowledgeable CFIDS Doc who

> > > will be open to helping me with the Yasko protocol and documentation

> > > for disability.

> > >

> > > Living north of Houston very near to sea level - still sick.

> > >

> > > Thanks everyone,

> > > Marti Z.

> > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi, Marti.

" marti_zavala " <marti_zavala@...> wrote:

>

> Hi there,

> I know about several different anti-viral protocols but curious if

> there are new ones since I was on the list years ago. I have tried

> Coconut oil, Olive Leaf, Apple Cider Vinegar, Elderberry, Olive Oil

> with Lemon, Garlic with some success but was curious if there was

> anything new in this arena. Needing something very powerful.

***Yes. New at the table is nondenatured whey in the form of products like

RenewPro and The True Whey, not to be confused with the inferior undnatured whey

tried in PWCs since the late 90s with Dr Cheney.

***Nondenatured whey tops by far in effectiveness the drugs valtrex, acyclovir,

gancyclovir and others. From personal experience, it as well tops Ampligen in

keeping fluish symptoms down and RnaseL levels normalized.

***Also, a product called Lipoceutical Glutathione(LG) was tried against HHV6 by

the HHV6 Foundation connected to Dr Ablashi who discovered this virus and LG was

effective at killing HHV6 better than 70 agents they had tested including very

potent but very toxic, Famvir.

Currently on acyclovir and it helps as long as I have no physical

> issues. As soon as I don't sleep well, the viral symptoms return.

> Doc & I have continued to up the dose - currently at 1600mg per day.

>

> CURIOUS: Has anyone tried Hydrogen peroxide in any form such as

> IV's. or otherwise for control or elimination of any type of

> pathogens including viruses?

***Hydrogen peroxide therapy turns out is really quite a horrible choice if you

have CFS. Low glutathione often found in CFS causes a rise of hydrogen peroxide

in our bodies and this in turn actually causes problems with our thyroid

function and probably other problems as well.

***Better to treat the underlying root problem that leads to low glutathione and

strengthen your immunity to kill or suppress pathogens from that stand point.

> ALSO: Are there any Dr. Salvato patients on the list?

>

> I would like to get referred to a more knowledgeable CFIDS Doc who

> will be open to helping me with the Yasko protocol and documentation

> for disability.

>

> Living north of Houston very near to sea level - still sick.

>

> Thanks everyone,

> Marti Z.

***

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I am very confused as to why you keep posting statements like this:

>>>>not to be confused with the inferior undnatured whey tried in PWCs since the

late 90s with Dr Cheney.<<<<<

Dr. Cheney began trials of Immunopro in 1999 and has been using it ever since.

It was from his articles that I learned about Glutathione, which he had been

studying/treating for several years, and because of his trials of Immunopro that

I began using it in 1999.

He first tried Immunoplex? and Immunocal, with mixed results. When he heard of

Immunopro (I think it was brand new) and communicated with it's creator, he

began trials with it.

We were able to follow his and patients' results on this and other lists,

because they were kind enough to report weekly, if not daily on all 3 products.

This gave us a chance to fully evaluate it and see the exact results and dosing

of others, before making a decision about using it.

AS you know, RenewPro is made by the same company...WellWisdom. I think it is

the same ?, except that is is naturally sweetened, easier to mix, and less

expensive (don't know why).

WHen I saw Dr. Cheney in April 05, he did tell me to continue on ImmunoPro,

which I have.

I'll post an article from WellWisdom's website that's taken from an interview

with Dr. Cheney right before he began ImmunoPro trials.

Some of the 1st patients' reports on IP are in this lists' archives from 1999.

I think Dr. Cheney's articles on Glutathione and the 3 trials are on the DFW

website.

Since there are always new people to the scene, it certainly is brand new to

them, and RenewPro is a new addition.

I would be interested if anyone who's been on ImmunoPro for a long period and

switched to RenewPro has seen any difference.

I don't have any problem with IP taste, or mixing, once I figured it out.

I use a small plastic mixer that I purchased at Walgreen's for about $4. Before

that, I mixed it in a jar, but was not always strong enough to do it.

I'm also taking Lipoceutical Glutathione, which I think I first heard about from

you, which sounded very exciting. It was prescribed to me by Dr. Cheney in April

06.

BW,

Katrina

> >

> > Hi there,

> > I know about several different anti-viral protocols but curious if

> > there are new ones since I was on the list years ago. I have tried

> > Coconut oil, Olive Leaf, Apple Cider Vinegar, Elderberry, Olive Oil

> > with Lemon, Garlic with some success but was curious if there was

> > anything new in this arena. Needing something very powerful.

>

>

>

> ***Yes. New at the table is nondenatured whey in the form of products like

RenewPro and The True Whey, not to be confused with the inferior undnatured whey

tried in PWCs since the late 90s with Dr Cheney.

>

>

> ***Nondenatured whey tops by far in effectiveness the drugs valtrex,

acyclovir, gancyclovir and others. From personal experience, it as well tops

Ampligen in keeping fluish symptoms down and RnaseL levels normalized.

>

>

>

> ***Also, a product called Lipoceutical Glutathione(LG) was tried against HHV6

by the HHV6 Foundation connected to Dr Ablashi who discovered this virus and LG

was effective at killing HHV6 better than 70 agents they had tested including

very potent but very toxic, Famvir.

>

>

>

> Currently on acyclovir and it helps as long as I have no physical

> > issues. As soon as I don't sleep well, the viral symptoms return.

> > Doc & I have continued to up the dose - currently at 1600mg per day.

> >

> > CURIOUS: Has anyone tried Hydrogen peroxide in any form such as

> > IV's. or otherwise for control or elimination of any type of

> > pathogens including viruses?

>

>

>

> ***Hydrogen peroxide therapy turns out is really quite a horrible choice if

you have CFS. Low glutathione often found in CFS causes a rise of hydrogen

peroxide in our bodies and this in turn actually causes problems with our

thyroid function and probably other problems as well.

>

>

>

> ***Better to treat the underlying root problem that leads to low glutathione

and strengthen your immunity to kill or suppress pathogens from that stand

point.

>

>

>

>

> > ALSO: Are there any Dr. Salvato patients on the list?

> >

> > I would like to get referred to a more knowledgeable CFIDS Doc who

> > will be open to helping me with the Yasko protocol and documentation

> > for disability.

> >

> > Living north of Houston very near to sea level - still sick.

> >

> > Thanks everyone,

> > Marti Z.

>

>

>

> ***

>

[Guest guest]

>>>>>Understand that there seem to be two extremes in cfs - the ones like me

who get nothing else and the ones who get terribly sick with everything.

>snip<

I am also wondering if those with mainly viral problems also get colds and

flu?<<<<<

a,

My first sudden onset in 1985 and further plunge in 90 was extreme viral type,

with mutiple infections, and almost zero response to antibiotics.

I began IM Gamma Globulin in 91, and for many years was in the category of

getting nothing " normal " ...flu, colds.

I lost the GG a few years ago, and went to hell in a handbasket. I went

backwards with all symptoms, and also catching everything in pretty severe

forms...but I think I had begun catching things somewhat before that.(losing

GG). In those days, I responded pretty well to anti-viral Chinese and other

herbs.

Now, I catch things, herbs or and ABX help some, but not with the most severe.

My Dr. is getting worried about this and that there are many I cannot tolerate.

So, I'm trying several anti-viral approaches.

One year I knocked out a flu in 2 days with Amantadine. 2 Years ago I took that

during flu season, and did not get sick.

Also Modulating Immune System itself. I had good results a few years ago with

Moducare...I really felt better. And there is also Immunovir, among others.

I think my patterns are explained by Dr. Cheney's 3 phases (on DFW website), +

what I have taken,but I don't remember what all he said about it in 2005.

TC,

Katrina

>

> Marti,

> Do you tend to get every virus that comes along such as colds and flu?

>

> I got sick in 1995 with swollen glands, tonsils, low grade fever but

> my diagnosis after a few months was mycoplasma incognitus and I

> responded to pretty much any antibiotic they gave me. (I learned 7

> years later I also had borrelia or Lyme disease, but by that time I

> had taken enough antibiotics that I wasn't terribly sick.) Initially

> I had elevated EBV titres, but they returned to normal as soon as I

> was put on penicillin for the throat inflammation. From then on I had

> the cfs symptoms but literally never got any flu or colds for several

> years. The first cold I got was a year when I was pretty much back to

> normal.

>

> Understand that there seem to be two extremes in cfs - the ones like

> me who get nothing else and the ones who get terribly sick with

> everything.

>

> So I am wondering if your basic problem is viruses or bacterias? I am

> also wondering if those with mainly viral problems also get colds and

> flu?

>

> a

>

>

> >

> > Viral Symptoms are tender glands, sore throat, flu-like symptoms,

> > brain fog, elevated temperature, bone-crushing fatigue, you know,

> the

> > usual!

> >

> > I just found the link you mentioned below:

> > http://www.immunesupport.com/library/showarticle.cfm?

> > id=7245 & T=CFIDS_FM. I think I fit into Group 1.

> >

> > When I got sick in 1999 - the Doc I saw suggested working on the

> > immune system rather than spending money on expensive tests. I

> > bought into that - (big mistake). Recently, I had limited testing

> > for several virus and tested positive for all that I was tested for

> > including HHV6a and CMV. (Seems I have been collecting viruses

> over

> > the years).

> >

> > Thank you for the viral med info. I will research and discuss with

> > Doc next week. I am on County Health Insurance but Dr.'s are

> > limited. Trying to get referral to FFC or Dr. Salvato that might

> be

> > open to some of these tests.

> >

> > Thanks for your help.

> > Marti Z.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Still looking for evidence that anything is effective against

sackie and enteroviruses.

[Guest guest]

Hi Marti,

I just remembered my experience with Amantadine, an anti-viral that used to be a

Parkinson's drug.

THe last time I looked, it was actually mentioned, with a couple of others, on

the CDC website as a flu prophyalactic. It also was 1st thought to be a drug

good for the Bird flu?, but I'm not sure about now.

The strain of flu it is supposed to be for (A?) was going around a few years

ago. I took Amantadine and it knocked it out or down in 2 days.

Then I took it prophylactically a couple of years ago, and I did not get the

flu. (I did the year before and after).

The problem was it seemed to also make me weaker...not good becasue I was

already weak. Maybe kind of spacy too. It felt like a Blood Pressure thing,

which I think is a side effect.

For this reason, I began melting gel tablet in water, then drinking half.

Before this experiment I had seen a PWC post who had taken it for a couple of

years. Her *Neurologist* actually wanted her to be on it regularly. It was

listening to her. and lookin g it up, that made me decide to take it as I did.

It's hard to tell how I'd decide now...it was effective...but weakening.

I'm taking several other anti-viral precautions now, which have been mentioned

here.

I'd expected my Doctor to balk or the supply to be low, but neither was the

case, at that time.

I think Selenium is important too.

Katrina

>

> Viral Symptoms are tender glands, sore throat, flu-like symptoms,

> brain fog, elevated temperature, bone-crushing fatigue, you know, the

> usual!

>

> I just found the link you mentioned below:

> http://www.immunesupport.com/library/showarticle.cfm?

> id=7245 & T=CFIDS_FM. I think I fit into Group 1.

>

> When I got sick in 1999 - the Doc I saw suggested working on the

> immune system rather than spending money on expensive tests. I

> bought into that - (big mistake). Recently, I had limited testing

> for several virus and tested positive for all that I was tested for

> including HHV6a and CMV. (Seems I have been collecting viruses over

> the years).

>

> Thank you for the viral med info. I will research and discuss with

> Doc next week. I am on County Health Insurance but Dr.'s are

> limited. Trying to get referral to FFC or Dr. Salvato that might be

> open to some of these tests.

>

> Thanks for your help.

> Marti Z.

>

>

>

>

> > >

> > > Currently on acyclovir and it helps as long as I have no physical

> > > issues. As soon as I don't sleep well, the viral symptoms

> return.

> > > Doc & I have continued to up the dose - currently at 1600mg per

> day.

> > >

> > ///What are the " viral symptoms " ...swollen tender glands...

> > Have you ever had viral testing or redlabsusa testing?

> > there is a link to paper how DeMeirleir puts people in 3 groups and

> i

> > think that is a rationale grouping.

> > i'll have to find the link if you haven't; also i was surprised to

> > see the high (20%) involvement in one group with HHV6a (i don't

> think

> > it was HHV7) and this was CNS involvement i believe. the sicker

> > people (closer to bedridden) would probably benefit from valcyte

> > < " something very powerful " -doesn't get more potent than that>

> > (valgancyclovir) which penetrates the CNS (whereas valtrex/famvir

> > etc. won't). the study on immunesupport from stanford lasted 6

> mo's

> > and same dose as for CMV retinitis, 450 mg 2x/d.

> > cheapest source, canadadrugs.com $1400 from what i could find.

> > if you could show a + viral test, you might try the pt assistance

> > program. hope this helps.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

You can contact SciClone Pharmaceuticals and order Zadaxin from Panama

if you can get your doctor to write a prescription. It is an injected

SYNTHETIC thymus hormone that can be helpful for patients with HCV and

HIV. However, if your main problem is a bacteria, not a virus, it will

not help you. It is also extremely expensive.

I think the main thing you have to determine is if the viruses are a

side issue with some intracellular bacteria or bacterias as your main

cause.

a Carnes

>

> Still looking for evidence that anything is effective against

> sackie and enteroviruses.

>

[Guest guest]

Wow, Katrina, you and I could be classic examples of the two types -

never get a virus (me) and get a bunch of them (you). (I have never

felt Cheney's three stages exactly make sense, or maybe I just find

that it is not a given that everyone progresses to stage three.

Perhaps his three stages are worst case scenarios, as I know a lot of

us who have gotten much better.)

In any case, I wonder how Zadaxin would do for a case like yours? It

can be purchased and shipped to the US from Panama. Trouble is it

costs about $2,000 for six months. Given your good response to

antiviral drugs I think it would be worth a try. You can call

SciClone Pharmaceuticals and talk with them. Also, you have to have a

US prescription.

a Carnes

>

>

> >>>>>Understand that there seem to be two extremes in cfs - the

ones like me who get nothing else and the ones who get terribly sick

with everything.

>

> >snip<

>

> I am also wondering if those with mainly viral problems also get

colds and

> flu?<<<<<

>

> a,

>

> My first sudden onset in 1985 and further plunge in 90 was extreme

viral type, with mutiple infections, and almost zero response to

antibiotics.

> I began IM Gamma Globulin in 91, and for many years was in the

category of getting nothing " normal " ...flu, colds.

>

> I lost the GG a few years ago, and went to hell in a handbasket. I

went backwards with all symptoms, and also catching everything in

pretty severe forms...but I think I had begun catching things

somewhat before that.(losing GG). In those days, I responded pretty

well to anti-viral Chinese and other herbs.

>

> Now, I catch things, herbs or and ABX help some, but not with the

most severe. My Dr. is getting worried about this and that there are

many I cannot tolerate. So, I'm trying several anti-viral approaches.

>

> One year I knocked out a flu in 2 days with Amantadine. 2 Years ago

I took that during flu season, and did not get sick.

>

> Also Modulating Immune System itself. I had good results a few

years ago with Moducare...I really felt better. And there is also

Immunovir, among others.

>

> I think my patterns are explained by Dr. Cheney's 3 phases (on DFW

website), + what I have taken,but I don't remember what all he said

about it in 2005.

>

> TC,

> Katrina

>

>

>

> >

> > Marti,

> > Do you tend to get every virus that comes along such as colds and

flu?

> >

> > I got sick in 1995 with swollen glands, tonsils, low grade fever

but

> > my diagnosis after a few months was mycoplasma incognitus and I

> > responded to pretty much any antibiotic they gave me. (I learned

7

> > years later I also had borrelia or Lyme disease, but by that time

I

> > had taken enough antibiotics that I wasn't terribly sick.)

Initially

> > I had elevated EBV titres, but they returned to normal as soon as

I

> > was put on penicillin for the throat inflammation. From then on I

had

> > the cfs symptoms but literally never got any flu or colds for

several

> > years. The first cold I got was a year when I was pretty much

back to

> > normal.

> >

> > Understand that there seem to be two extremes in cfs - the ones

like

> > me who get nothing else and the ones who get terribly sick with

> > everything.

> >

> > So I am wondering if your basic problem is viruses or bacterias?

I am

> > also wondering if those with mainly viral problems also get colds

and

> > flu?

> >

> > a

> >

> >

> > >

> > > Viral Symptoms are tender glands, sore throat, flu-like

symptoms,

> > > brain fog, elevated temperature, bone-crushing fatigue, you

know,

> > the

> > > usual!

> > >

> > > I just found the link you mentioned below:

> > > http://www.immunesupport.com/library/showarticle.cfm?

> > > id=7245 & T=CFIDS_FM. I think I fit into Group 1.

> > >

> > > When I got sick in 1999 - the Doc I saw suggested working on

the

> > > immune system rather than spending money on expensive tests. I

> > > bought into that - (big mistake). Recently, I had limited

testing

> > > for several virus and tested positive for all that I was tested

for

> > > including HHV6a and CMV. (Seems I have been collecting viruses

> > over

> > > the years).

> > >

> > > Thank you for the viral med info. I will research and discuss

with

> > > Doc next week. I am on County Health Insurance but Dr.'s are

> > > limited. Trying to get referral to FFC or Dr. Salvato that

might

> > be

> > > open to some of these tests.

> > >

> > > Thanks for your help.

> > > Marti Z.

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Jill. No, it's tincture. 30-40 drops in an inch or two of warm

water, 3-4 times per day, to start. Just plop in the warm water,

swish it around to mix it in the water, then drink it down. Gaia

brand, officinalis (front of label says " Lemon Balm " ). Make

sure you get the straight stuff, not the combo forms. Read the fine

print. I think the cost is about $9 when bought at a local health

food store. Lasts for 10-14 days.

Gaia has an online catalog so you can scout this out. I don't have

the link, off the top of my head now, though.

Check with mjh. She grew and grows her own and brews from

that.

> >

> > Hi Marti. I'm using mjh's officinalis routine

[Guest guest]

Hey a,

In some ways that's true. But then I did have those number of years where I

would have said I was in the category of *not* catching things. Very very ill,

even still bedridden, but not with whatever was going around.

I'm not sure about the 3 phases either, but he said you can have them

overlapping or back and forth or something.

I related to the 2nd one because I was not getting infections, but was severely

ill. ANd the 3rd one, because if I remained very protective, and in a " box " of

limiting exertion, toxins,I did not feel too bad. He described just that sort of

state.

I kind of messed that up tho. I felt so safe, I began having people over again,

closer relationships, a few trips to family across

country.(funeral,wedding,reunion,etc.) Since I had survived 10+ years of CFIDS,

much of it bedridden, plus a deadly cancer, and then got on my feet with

Florinef and other things...AND sitting here with people around was just as

draining as being out...AND I wanted to do things while they and I were still

alive...I got really driven to push, push, push, then crash. In 2000?, I had

another 6 months where I was vertical about one hour a day, total. Sometimes I

could barely take a breath or move a muscle, and everyone thought I was going to

die. Another shorter time like that, and a night in the hospital in 2002.

Later things were harder $$ and survival wise, and in 2005, I had distanced from

everyone, because I really did feel like I was dying, yet not bedridden.

That's when a miracle happened and Dr. Cheney came back. I'd gotten on the

waiting list, and my sweet Uncle sent me to him.

Except for just getting my diagnosis in 90-91, that's the first time I ever saw

a CFS Specialist, in 21 years!

(Except for all of the ones I talked to at Research Conference, and a couple by

phone or email).

I knew that's who I would see from following his research and patients over the

years.

I spent 3 days with him and tests, and he practically told me what I was

experiencing before I finished telling him.

He also identified about 18 areas to work on, said I was a " sinking ship " and

could die. This only somewhat scared me. because I already knew it.

He said I was one of his patients who has Diastolic Dysfunction and am " living

on adrenaline " to compensate. ANd he said do not " get my affairs in order " ,

because he had a plan ( for the heart and 18 parts). So, I began the plan and

I'm still on it, and much much stronger.

But I have alot of damage from 22 years, so who knows what will happen.

I am so outraged/grief-stricken at what happened to me and hundreds of other

patients I have known (including for 10 years, running a CFIDS support group),

the damages from toxic drugs, and many friends who have died, that's why I get

so adamant about the right research, advocacy, categories,safety and all of

that.

At this point, I would actually

feel much better, and be out even more, if I stayed off of the internet, rested

more, etc.

But I seem to keep being driven to learn more, pass it on, and advocate for

recognition/treatment of this disease.

ME/CFS patients have a wealth of accumulated knowledge, and patients directly

following the ME/CFS research and helping each other is very powerful, as you

know.

If we leave it up to the powers

that be, we will be disappeared off the face of the earth.

Sorry this got so long...guess I got carried away. It's really fortunate that

you did find out about the Mycoplasma and got treatment for that part. Can you

imagine if all of the Specialists/Researchers pooled their knowledge and we

really did get tests, sub-setted and correct treatment...early?? or anytime? lol

That's what I picture...

Take care,

Katrina

> > >

> > > Marti,

> > > Do you tend to get every virus that comes along such as colds and

> flu?

> > >

> > > I got sick in 1995 with swollen glands, tonsils, low grade fever

> but

> > > my diagnosis after a few months was mycoplasma incognitus and I

> > > responded to pretty much any antibiotic they gave me. (I learned

> 7

> > > years later I also had borrelia or Lyme disease, but by that time

> I

> > > had taken enough antibiotics that I wasn't terribly sick.)

> Initially

> > > I had elevated EBV titres, but they returned to normal as soon as

> I

> > > was put on penicillin for the throat inflammation. From then on I

> had

> > > the cfs symptoms but literally never got any flu or colds for

> several

> > > years. The first cold I got was a year when I was pretty much

> back to

> > > normal.

> > >

> > > Understand that there seem to be two extremes in cfs - the ones

> like

> > > me who get nothing else and the ones who get terribly sick with

> > > everything.

> > >

> > > So I am wondering if your basic problem is viruses or bacterias?

> I am

> > > also wondering if those with mainly viral problems also get colds

> and

> > > flu?

> > >

> > > a

> > >

> > >

> > > >

> > > > Viral Symptoms are tender glands, sore throat, flu-like

> symptoms,

> > > > brain fog, elevated temperature, bone-crushing fatigue, you

> know,

> > > the

> > > > usual!

> > > >

> > > > I just found the link you mentioned below:

> > > > http://www.immunesupport.com/library/showarticle.cfm?

> > > > id=7245 & T=CFIDS_FM. I think I fit into Group 1.

> > > >

> > > > When I got sick in 1999 - the Doc I saw suggested working on

> the

> > > > immune system rather than spending money on expensive tests. I

> > > > bought into that - (big mistake). Recently, I had limited

> testing

> > > > for several virus and tested positive for all that I was tested

> for

> > > > including HHV6a and CMV. (Seems I have been collecting viruses

> > > over

> > > > the years).

> > > >

> > > > Thank you for the viral med info. I will research and discuss

> with

> > > > Doc next week. I am on County Health Insurance but Dr.'s are

> > > > limited. Trying to get referral to FFC or Dr. Salvato that

> might

> > > be

> > > > open to some of these tests.

> > > >

> > > > Thanks for your help.

> > > > Marti Z.

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

DAvid, do you happen to know the difference in processing between Non-denatured

and Un denatured?

Thanks,

Adrienne

Re: Looking for anti-viral aid

Hi, Marti.

" marti_zavala " <marti_zavala@...> wrote:

>

> Hi there,

> I know about several different anti-viral protocols but curious if

> there are new ones since I was on the list years ago. I have tried

> Coconut oil, Olive Leaf, Apple Cider Vinegar, Elderberry, Olive Oil

> with Lemon, Garlic with some success but was curious if there was

> anything new in this arena. Needing something very powerful.

***Yes. New at the table is nondenatured whey in the form of products like

RenewPro and The True Whey, not to be confused with the inferior undnatured whey

tried in PWCs since the late 90s with Dr Cheney.

***Nondenatured whey tops by far in effectiveness the drugs valtrex,

acyclovir, gancyclovir and others. From personal experience, it as well tops

Ampligen in keeping fluish symptoms down and RnaseL levels normalized.

***Also, a product called Lipoceutical Glutathione(LG) was tried against HHV6

by the HHV6 Foundation connected to Dr Ablashi who discovered this virus and LG

was effective at killing HHV6 better than 70 agents they had tested including

very potent but very toxic, Famvir.

Currently on acyclovir and it helps as long as I have no physical

> issues. As soon as I don't sleep well, the viral symptoms return.

> Doc & I have continued to up the dose - currently at 1600mg per day.

>

> CURIOUS: Has anyone tried Hydrogen peroxide in any form such as

> IV's. or otherwise for control or elimination of any type of

> pathogens including viruses?

***Hydrogen peroxide therapy turns out is really quite a horrible choice if

you have CFS. Low glutathione often found in CFS causes a rise of hydrogen

peroxide in our bodies and this in turn actually causes problems with our

thyroid function and probably other problems as well.

***Better to treat the underlying root problem that leads to low glutathione

and strengthen your immunity to kill or suppress pathogens from that stand

point.

> ALSO: Are there any Dr. Salvato patients on the list?

>

> I would like to get referred to a more knowledgeable CFIDS Doc who

> will be open to helping me with the Yasko protocol and documentation

> for disability.

>

> Living north of Houston very near to sea level - still sick.

>

> Thanks everyone,

> Marti Z.

***

[Guest guest]

Hi, Katrina.

" kattemayo " <kattemayo@...> wrote:

>

>

>

> Hi ,

>

> I am very confused as to why you keep posting statements like this:

>

> >>>>not to be confused with the inferior undnatured whey tried in PWCs since

the late 90s with Dr Cheney.<<<<<

>

> Dr. Cheney began trials of Immunopro in 1999 and has been using it ever since.

***This is probably the problem. Dr Cheney was actually using ImmuneCal in 1999

too, based on its wide promotion for AIDS patients in the 1990's, and he even

recommended it to me in 2002 as the best glutathione building option available.

But ImmuneCal it turns out, and this is why it failed with me then, is

undenatured whey rather than the more effective nondenatured whey products like

RenewPro, ImmunePro and The True Whey to build glutathione in non-sulfur

sensitive PWCs.

It was from his articles that I learned about Glutathione, which he had been

studying/treating for several years, and because of his trials of Immunopro that

I began using it in 1999.

>

> He first tried Immunoplex? and Immunocal, with mixed results. When he heard of

Immunopro (I think it was brand new) and communicated with it's creator, he

began trials with it.

***Well, actually he recommened ImmuneCal as the best for quite a while for

PWCs. He's never made the distinction that Rich has that the cystine basis of

ImmuneCal renders it problematic for PWCs to building glutathione vs the

cysteine basis of ImmunePro, etc. to more readily help us make it.

***This missing biochemical detail in his understanding of these products may be

why he is behind the times now in not recognizing glutathione depletion's

critical role in the diastolic heart dysfunction in PWCs. The glutathione

building measures he pioneered for the PWC community that failed early on, like

ImmuneCal and ImmunePro also for too limited a trial time frame in PWC use I

think, may have also lead him to erroneously believe now that glutathione is not

connected to the energy deficit in our cells he acknowledges is central to the

heart problem.

***This seems an odd conclusion on his part given the known science about

glutathione being essential to energy production within the cell, never mind

Rich's overall hypothesis for CFS for a second.

> We were able to follow his and patients' results on this and other lists,

because they were kind enough to report weekly, if not daily on all 3 products.

>

> This gave us a chance to fully evaluate it and see the exact results and

dosing of others, before making a decision about using it.

***ImmuneCal was the first one studied by him though, in which my post was

illuding. Since 1994, I've followed this conversation on the web and off as

well as with the doc himself in 2002 & 2003 just before his heart transplant.

> AS you know, RenewPro is made by the same company...WellWisdom. I think it is

the same ?, except that is is naturally sweetened, easier to mix, and less

expensive (don't know why).

***Yes, that's correct.

>

> WHen I saw Dr. Cheney in April 05, he did tell me to continue on ImmunoPro,

which I have.

***Good.

> I'll post an article from WellWisdom's website that's taken from an interview

with Dr. Cheney right before he began ImmunoPro trials.

>

> Some of the 1st patients' reports on IP are in this lists' archives from 1999.

>

> I think Dr. Cheney's articles on Glutathione and the 3 trials are on the DFW

website.

***Yes, I saw one posted at DFW in 2002 and earlier, which talked about

ImmuneCal as the primary one he had studied with mixed results.

Since there are always new people to the scene, it certainly is brand new to

them, and RenewPro is a new addition.

I would be interested if anyone who's been on ImmunoPro for a long period and

switched to RenewPro has seen any difference.

***I've heard a report from one saying they feel RenewPro is better absorbed in

their gut but from a technical standpoint they are essentially the same, the

RenewPro having more user-friendly features being the only real difference.

Also, better to get a quantitative measure, a test of some sort, for how one's

glutathione status is doing in the first year or two over relying on how one

feels given improved feeling may not happen early on or may not happen until

heavy metals have been successfully chelated, which glutathione cannot do.

I don't have any problem with IP taste, or mixing, once I figured it out.

>

> I use a small plastic mixer that I purchased at Walgreen's for about $4.

Before that, I mixed it in a jar, but was not always strong enough to do it.

***Be careful with mixing it with a motor based mixer, if that's what you're

doing, as it could ruin its potency.

> I'm also taking Lipoceutical Glutathione, which I think I first heard about

from you, which sounded very exciting. It was prescribed to me by Dr. Cheney in

April 06.

***Good. Did he recommend any effective chelation therapies as well to follow

successful glutathione repletion?

> BW,

> Katrina

***

[Guest guest]

Hi, Adrienne.

" Adrienne G. " <duckblossm@...> wrote:

>

> DAvid, do you happen to know the difference in processing between

Non-denatured and Un denatured?

> Thanks,

> Adrienne

***Yes. Nondenatured whey products like RenewPro DO NOT go through a process of

heating which is oxidizing and render disulfide bonding between cysteine

molecules, producing cystine.

***Denatured or undenatured mean this heating process has occurred and cystine

rather than cysteine is in the product. So, a PWC already suffering oxidative

stress and lowered ATP production needs to use some of the little ATP they have

in order to deal with the oxidized molecule, cystine, and break it down to two

cysteine molecules, the rate limiting ingredient for producing glutathione, if

they use one of these inferior products for this purpose.

***That's a lot of work and may not work so barring sulfur sensitivity,

NONdenature wheys rather than these other types is a superior treatment choice

for PWCs.

***

> From: davidhall2020

***...nondenatured whey in the form of products like RenewPro and The True Whey,

not to be confused with the inferior undnatured whey tried in PWCs since the

late 90s with Dr Cheney.

***Nondenatured whey tops by far in effectiveness the drugs valtrex, acyclovir,

gancyclovir and others. From personal experience, it as well tops Ampligen in

keeping fluish symptoms down and RnaseL levels normalized.

[Guest guest]

Katrina,

Thanks for sharing your story. You have a lot of courage. I hope the

things you are trying now will have a good effect on you in the

months to come. I will be watching to see how you do.

I actually found out about mycoplasma from Dr. Lapp at a

support group meeting in Charlotte, NC. Seven years later and on

antibiotics most of that time I learned that I had Lyme disease, so

it really was providence that I was on antibiotics at all.

Right now I am on Recuperation and hope to add the salt/C protocol

again after having some problems with dental work/vertigo.

a

>

>

> Hey a,

>

> In some ways that's true. But then I did have those number of years

where I would have said I was in the category of *not* catching

things. Very very ill, even still bedridden, but not with whatever

was going around.

>

> I'm not sure about the 3 phases either, but he said you can have

them overlapping or back and forth or something.

> I related to the 2nd one because I was not getting infections, but

was severely ill. ANd the 3rd one, because if I remained very

protective, and in a " box " of limiting exertion, toxins,I did not

feel too bad. He described just that sort of state.

>

> I kind of messed that up tho. I felt so safe, I began having people

over again, closer relationships, a few trips to family across

country.(funeral,wedding,reunion,etc.) Since I had survived 10+ years

of CFIDS, much of it bedridden, plus a deadly cancer, and then got on

my feet with Florinef and other things...AND sitting here with people

around was just as draining as being out...AND I wanted to do things

while they and I were still alive...I got really driven to push,

push, push, then crash. In 2000?, I had another 6 months where I was

vertical about one hour a day, total. Sometimes I could barely take

a breath or move a muscle, and everyone thought I was going to die.

Another shorter time like that, and a night in the hospital in 2002.

> Later things were harder $$ and survival wise, and in 2005, I had

distanced from everyone, because I really did feel like I was dying,

yet not bedridden.

> That's when a miracle happened and Dr. Cheney came back. I'd gotten

on the waiting list, and my sweet Uncle sent me to him.

> Except for just getting my diagnosis in 90-91, that's the first

time I ever saw a CFS Specialist, in 21 years!

> (Except for all of the ones I talked to at Research Conference, and

a couple by phone or email).

> I knew that's who I would see from following his research and

patients over the years.

> I spent 3 days with him and tests, and he practically told me what

I was experiencing before I finished telling him.

> He also identified about 18 areas to work on, said I was a " sinking

ship " and could die. This only somewhat scared me. because I already

knew it.

> He said I was one of his patients who has Diastolic Dysfunction and

am " living on adrenaline " to compensate. ANd he said do not " get my

affairs in order " , because he had a plan ( for the heart and 18

parts). So, I began the plan and I'm still on it, and much much

stronger.

> But I have alot of damage from 22 years, so who knows what will

happen.

> I am so outraged/grief-stricken at what happened to me and hundreds

of other patients I have known (including for 10 years, running a

CFIDS support group), the damages from toxic drugs, and many friends

who have died, that's why I get so adamant about the right research,

advocacy, categories,safety and all of that.

> At this point, I would actually

> feel much better, and be out even more, if I stayed off of the

internet, rested more, etc.

> But I seem to keep being driven to learn more, pass it on, and

advocate for recognition/treatment of this disease.

> ME/CFS patients have a wealth of accumulated knowledge, and

patients directly following the ME/CFS research and helping each

other is very powerful, as you know.

> If we leave it up to the powers

> that be, we will be disappeared off the face of the earth.

>

> Sorry this got so long...guess I got carried away. It's really

fortunate that you did find out about the Mycoplasma and got

treatment for that part. Can you imagine if all of the

Specialists/Researchers pooled their knowledge and we really did get

tests, sub-setted and correct treatment...early?? or anytime? lol

>

> That's what I picture...

>

> Take care,

>

> Katrina

[Guest guest]

I have used Valtrex. After awhile it stopped working. Now I take Famvir

and luteolin.

jill1313 wrote:

>

> Anything wrong with valtrex/ I'm tempted to try it even tho I don't

> seem to have viral issues. But there are such good responses in

> autistic kids, especially ones who reacted badly to the MMR vaccine,

> or seemingly so. However, they do manifest the virus flaring up, and

> getting rashes, fevers etc, usually while their behaviors improve.

> Since this is all anecdotal one can't say much but I've been reading

> about it. Even kids who don't have elevated viral titers seem to

> respond. However, they seem to get fungal flareups sometimes at first

> on the antivirals. One wonders what's happening. Are viruses and

> funguses together suppressing immunity? Are viruses keeping fungi in

> check? Is valtrex repairing methylation through reducing adenosine,

> and are metals dumping, causing temporary immunosuppression as they

> leave and flaring up fungus? There is a lot to examine.

>

>

> > >

> > > Hi there,

> > > I know about several different anti-viral protocols but curious if

> > > there are new ones since I was on the list years ago. I have tried

> > > Coconut oil, Olive Leaf, Apple Cider Vinegar, Elderberry, Olive Oil

> > > with Lemon, Garlic with some success but was curious if there was

> > > anything new in this arena. Needing something very powerful.

> > >

> > > Currently on acyclovir and it helps as long as I have no physical

> > > issues. As soon as I don't sleep well, the viral symptoms return.

> > > Doc & I have continued to up the dose - currently at 1600mg per day.

> > >

> > > CURIOUS: Has anyone tried Hydrogen peroxide in any form such as

> > > IV's. or otherwise for control or elimination of any type of

> > > pathogens including viruses?

> > >

> > > ALSO: Are there any Dr. Salvato patients on the list?

> > >

> > > I would like to get referred to a more knowledgeable CFIDS Doc who

> > > will be open to helping me with the Yasko protocol and documentation

> > > for disability.

> > >

> > > Living north of Houston very near to sea level - still sick.

> > >

> > > Thanks everyone,

> > > Marti Z.

> > >

> > >

> >

>

>

[Guest guest]

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> Marti,

> Do you tend to get every virus that comes along such as colds and

flu?

///Not really. I seem to get sicker when I am run down. Before my

relapse in 2003, I actually caught a cold which I thought was

wonderful.

I think this has to do with TH1/TH2 imbalance and the type of

illnesses they keep your body safe from. I am TH2 overactive (I

think).

I have never been tested for bacteria. I just got tested for a few

of the common viral pathogens. I do seem to catch what others have

even if they are not ill. My immune system is obviously weakened.

I am convinced I have both virus and bacteria but seems like the

viral symptoms catch my attention more.

Marti