Guest guest Posted August 26, 2006 Report Share Posted August 26, 2006 Thank you for the warning. I have to say that I am terribly disappointed as I saw this as a way of removing the heavy pathogen load I seem to be carrying to jump-start my recovery. I understand that I will not be well or in remission until my immune system increases functionality but I was really hoping this treatment would give me a boost. I was aware of the oxidative stress but saw this as sort of a chemotherapy-type treatment. Thanks again - I am so ready for some relief that I don't always measure the risk. Blessings, Marti > > > > Hi there, > > I know about several different anti-viral protocols but curious if > > there are new ones since I was on the list years ago. I have tried > > Coconut oil, Olive Leaf, Apple Cider Vinegar, Elderberry, Olive Oil > > with Lemon, Garlic with some success but was curious if there was > > anything new in this arena. Needing something very powerful. > > > > Currently on acyclovir and it helps as long as I have no physical > > issues. As soon as I don't sleep well, the viral symptoms return. > > Doc & I have continued to up the dose - currently at 1600mg per day. > > > > CURIOUS: Has anyone tried Hydrogen peroxide in any form such as > > IV's. or otherwise for control or elimination of any type of > > pathogens including viruses? > > > > Living north of Houston very near to sea level - still sick. > > > > Thanks everyone, > > Marti Z. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 26, 2006 Report Share Posted August 26, 2006 No, I have not tried any of the items mentioned thus far. I am really out of it. I try to stay with herbals but I somehow missed the Lemon Balm. I have heard of amantadine but no luteolin. Definitely have a lot of research to do. Marti > > > > Hi there, > > I know about several different anti-viral protocols but curious if > > there are new ones since I was on the list years ago. I have tried > > Coconut oil, Olive Leaf, Apple Cider Vinegar, Elderberry, Olive Oil > > with Lemon, Garlic with some success but was curious if there was > > anything new in this arena. Needing something very powerful. > > > > Currently on acyclovir and it helps as long as I have no physical > > issues. As soon as I don't sleep well, the viral symptoms return. > > Doc & I have continued to up the dose - currently at 1600mg per day. > > > > CURIOUS: Has anyone tried Hydrogen peroxide in any form such as > > IV's. or otherwise for control or elimination of any type of > > pathogens including viruses? > > > > ALSO: Are there any Dr. Salvato patients on the list? > > > > I would like to get referred to a more knowledgeable CFIDS Doc who > > will be open to helping me with the Yasko protocol and documentation > > for disability. > > > > Living north of Houston very near to sea level - still sick. > > > > Thanks everyone, > > Marti Z. > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 26, 2006 Report Share Posted August 26, 2006 > > ***Yes. New at the table is nondenatured whey in the form of products like RenewPro and The True Whey, not to be confused with the inferior undnatured whey tried in PWCs since the late 90s with Dr Cheney. > > The only whey product I have tried was ImmunePro (can't remember if it is nondenatured or undenatured). I never tried the formulas you mentioned such as Immunocal. I have not heard of the two you mention so I will do research. I was never able to take more than 1/8 tsp every other day. Very powerful stuff (ImmunePro). It seemed to detox me too quickly. I had my amalgams removed but hadn't started my chelation treatment. Also, had not started glutathione injections so my detox pathways were probably still blocked. > ***Nondenatured whey tops by far in effectiveness the drugs valtrex, acyclovir, gancyclovir and others. From personal experience, it as well tops Ampligen in keeping fluish symptoms down and RnaseL levels normalized. > > > > ***Also, a product called Lipoceutical Glutathione(LG) was tried against HHV6 by the HHV6 Foundation connected to Dr Ablashi who discovered this virus and LG was effective at killing HHV6 better than 70 agents they had tested including very potent but very toxic, Famvir. I will definitely look into this. > > ***Hydrogen peroxide therapy turns out is really quite a horrible choice if you have CFS. Low glutathione often found in CFS causes a rise of hydrogen peroxide in our bodies and this in turn actually causes problems with our thyroid function and probably other problems as well. > > > > ***Better to treat the underlying root problem that leads to low glutathione and strengthen your immunity to kill or suppress pathogens from that stand point. > Very disappointing. Thanks for the warning. I was hanging lots of hope on this treatment. > > > > *** > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 26, 2006 Report Share Posted August 26, 2006 EBV, CMV, HHV6a, Herpes 1, 2, Zoster all positive. I tried OLE but definitely not long enough. I will research the others you mentioned. Thanks for the help, Marti > > Marti > > You do not mention which viruses you are dealing with. > > McCandless, MD, has good success with autistic children dealing > with their viral issues using Olive Leaf Extract (a particular brand) and > Virastop and Luaricidin and a couple of others. > > I was successful in bringing EB and CMV under control with > officinalis tincture. > > Lots of time people on natural things do not have the right type, the > correct dose and/or take it long enough. > > mjh > " The Basil Book " > _http://foxhillfarm.us/FireBasil/_ (http://foxhillfarm.us/FireBasil/) > > > Posted by: " marti_zavala " _marti_zavala@... _ > (mailto:marti_zavala@...?Subject=Re: Looking%20for%20anti-viral% 20aid) _marti_zavala _ > (marti_zavala) > Thu Aug 24, 2006 9:43 pm (PST) > Hi there, > I know about several different anti-viral protocols but curious if > there are new ones since I was on the list years ago. I have tried > Coconut oil, Olive Leaf, Apple Cider Vinegar, Elderberry, Olive Oil > with Lemon, Garlic with some success but was curious if there was > anything new in this arena. Needing something very powerful. > > Currently on acyclovir and it helps as long as I have no physical > issues. As soon as I don't sleep well, the viral symptoms return. > Doc & I have continued to up the dose - currently at 1600mg per day. > > CURIOUS: Has anyone tried Hydrogen peroxide in any form such as > IV's. or otherwise for control or elimination of any type of > pathogens including viruses? > > ALSO: Are there any Dr. Salvato patients on the list? > > I would like to get referred to a more knowledgeable CFIDS Doc who > will be open to helping me with the Yasko protocol and documentation > for disability. > > Living north of Houston very near to sea level - still sick. > > Thanks everyone, > Marti Z. > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 26, 2006 Report Share Posted August 26, 2006 MIxing whey: I have a rather small french whisk that really does the job without any heat buildup. Adrienne Re: Looking for anti-viral aid Hi, Katrina. " kattemayo " <kattemayo@...> wrote: > > > > Hi , > > I am very confused as to why you keep posting statements like this: > > >>>>not to be confused with the inferior undnatured whey tried in PWCs since the late 90s with Dr Cheney.<<<<< > > Dr. Cheney began trials of Immunopro in 1999 and has been using it ever since. ***This is probably the problem. Dr Cheney was actually using ImmuneCal in 1999 too, based on its wide promotion for AIDS patients in the 1990's, and he even recommended it to me in 2002 as the best glutathione building option available. But ImmuneCal it turns out, and this is why it failed with me then, is undenatured whey rather than the more effective nondenatured whey products like RenewPro, ImmunePro and The True Whey to build glutathione in non-sulfur sensitive PWCs. It was from his articles that I learned about Glutathione, which he had been studying/treating for several years, and because of his trials of Immunopro that I began using it in 1999. > > He first tried Immunoplex? and Immunocal, with mixed results. When he heard of Immunopro (I think it was brand new) and communicated with it's creator, he began trials with it. ***Well, actually he recommened ImmuneCal as the best for quite a while for PWCs. He's never made the distinction that Rich has that the cystine basis of ImmuneCal renders it problematic for PWCs to building glutathione vs the cysteine basis of ImmunePro, etc. to more readily help us make it. ***This missing biochemical detail in his understanding of these products may be why he is behind the times now in not recognizing glutathione depletion's critical role in the diastolic heart dysfunction in PWCs. The glutathione building measures he pioneered for the PWC community that failed early on, like ImmuneCal and ImmunePro also for too limited a trial time frame in PWC use I think, may have also lead him to erroneously believe now that glutathione is not connected to the energy deficit in our cells he acknowledges is central to the heart problem. ***This seems an odd conclusion on his part given the known science about glutathione being essential to energy production within the cell, never mind Rich's overall hypothesis for CFS for a second. > We were able to follow his and patients' results on this and other lists, because they were kind enough to report weekly, if not daily on all 3 products. > > This gave us a chance to fully evaluate it and see the exact results and dosing of others, before making a decision about using it. ***ImmuneCal was the first one studied by him though, in which my post was illuding. Since 1994, I've followed this conversation on the web and off as well as with the doc himself in 2002 & 2003 just before his heart transplant. > AS you know, RenewPro is made by the same company...WellWisdom. I think it is the same ?, except that is is naturally sweetened, easier to mix, and less expensive (don't know why). ***Yes, that's correct. > > WHen I saw Dr. Cheney in April 05, he did tell me to continue on ImmunoPro, which I have. ***Good. > I'll post an article from WellWisdom's website that's taken from an interview with Dr. Cheney right before he began ImmunoPro trials. > > Some of the 1st patients' reports on IP are in this lists' archives from 1999. > > I think Dr. Cheney's articles on Glutathione and the 3 trials are on the DFW website. ***Yes, I saw one posted at DFW in 2002 and earlier, which talked about ImmuneCal as the primary one he had studied with mixed results. Since there are always new people to the scene, it certainly is brand new to them, and RenewPro is a new addition. I would be interested if anyone who's been on ImmunoPro for a long period and switched to RenewPro has seen any difference. ***I've heard a report from one saying they feel RenewPro is better absorbed in their gut but from a technical standpoint they are essentially the same, the RenewPro having more user-friendly features being the only real difference. Also, better to get a quantitative measure, a test of some sort, for how one's glutathione status is doing in the first year or two over relying on how one feels given improved feeling may not happen early on or may not happen until heavy metals have been successfully chelated, which glutathione cannot do. I don't have any problem with IP taste, or mixing, once I figured it out. > > I use a small plastic mixer that I purchased at Walgreen's for about $4. Before that, I mixed it in a jar, but was not always strong enough to do it. ***Be careful with mixing it with a motor based mixer, if that's what you're doing, as it could ruin its potency. > I'm also taking Lipoceutical Glutathione, which I think I first heard about from you, which sounded very exciting. It was prescribed to me by Dr. Cheney in April 06. ***Good. Did he recommend any effective chelation therapies as well to follow successful glutathione repletion? > BW, > Katrina *** Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 26, 2006 Report Share Posted August 26, 2006 DAvid, Thanks, but if it is not heated at all, how is it turned from a liquid into a powder? That sounds like an awful lot of evaporation. Adrienne ----- Original Message ----- From: davidhall2020 Hi, Adrienne. " Adrienne G. " <duckblossm@...> wrote: > > DAvid, do you happen to know the difference in processing between Non-denatured and Un denatured? > Thanks, > Adrienne ***Yes. Nondenatured whey products like RenewPro DO NOT go through a process of heating which is oxidizing and render disulfide bonding between cysteine molecules, producing cystine. ***Denatured or undenatured mean this heating process has occurred and cystine rather than cysteine is in the product. So, a PWC already suffering oxidative stress and lowered ATP production needs to use some of the little ATP they have in order to deal with the oxidized molecule, cystine, and break it down to two cysteine molecules, the rate limiting ingredient for producing glutathione, if they use one of these inferior products for this purpose. ***That's a lot of work and may not work so barring sulfur sensitivity, NONdenature wheys rather than these other types is a superior treatment choice for PWCs. *** > From: davidhall2020 ***...nondenatured whey in the form of products like RenewPro and The True Whey, not to be confused with the inferior undnatured whey tried in PWCs since the late 90s with Dr Cheney. ***Nondenatured whey tops by far in effectiveness the drugs valtrex, acyclovir, gancyclovir and others. From personal experience, it as well tops Ampligen in keeping fluish symptoms down and RnaseL levels normalized. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 26, 2006 Report Share Posted August 26, 2006 Marti When you search these archives you will find that I have many times written about my use of officinalis tincture (lemon balm) to bring very high titres of Epstein-Barr and Cytomegalovirus down. I was not tested for other members of the Herpes family and could not afford the $425.00/month cost of the pharmaceutical prescribed. The antiviral aspect of lemon balm is only found in FRESH or tinctures made from the fresh herb. The bottles must state that. I make my own after starting with commercially available tinctures. mjh " The Basil Book " _http://foxhillfarm.us/FireBasil/_ (http://foxhillfarm.us/FireBasil/) _Re: Looking for anti-viral aid _ (/message/105508;_ylc=X3oDMTJxODl\ hMWRpBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzkxNTc0BGdyc HNwSWQDMTYwMDA2MTY0NQRtc2dJZAMxMDU1MDgEc2VjA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTE1NjU 4MTM5OQ--) Posted by: " marti_zavala " _marti_zavala@... _ (mailto:marti_zavala@...?Subject= Re:%20Looking%20for%20anti-viral%20aid) _marti_zavala _ (marti_zavala) Fri Aug 25, 2006 11:11 pm (PST) No, I have not tried any of the items mentioned thus far. I am really out of it. I try to stay with herbals but I somehow missed the Lemon Balm. I have heard of amantadine but no luteolin. Definitely have a lot of research to do. Marti Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 26, 2006 Report Share Posted August 26, 2006 Hi, Adrienne. " Adrienne G. " <duckblossm@...> wrote: > > DAvid, > Thanks, but if it is not heated at all, how is it turned from a liquid into a powder? That sounds like an awful lot of evaporation. > Adrienne ***Probably a lot of careful low temp managed evaporation indeed. I don't know the exact process but given the guy who makes RenewPro for instance is a PhD scientist specializing in nondenatured wheys, I'm sure he's figured out at what temperature specifically below which he can dry the stuff without producing an oxidized whey. ***His product certainly proves him right. *** > From: davidhall2020 > " Adrienne G. " <duckblossm@> wrote: > > > > DAvid, do you happen to know the difference in processing between Non-denatured and Un denatured? > > Thanks, > > Adrienne > > ***Yes. Nondenatured whey products like RenewPro DO NOT go through a process of heating which is oxidizing and render disulfide bonding between cysteine molecules, producing cystine. > > ***Denatured or undenatured mean this heating process has occurred and cystine rather than cysteine is in the product. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 26, 2006 Report Share Posted August 26, 2006 Blueberries are good - chelation helps a great deal as does removing yourself from the electrosmog! Also increasing your Natural Killer Cell count should help since natural killer cells attack virally infected cells. paul --- foxhillers@... wrote: > Marti > > When you search these archives you will find that I have > many times written > about my use of officinalis tincture (lemon balm) > to bring very high > titres of Epstein-Barr and Cytomegalovirus down. I was > not tested for other > members of the Herpes family and could not afford the > $425.00/month cost of > the pharmaceutical prescribed. > > The antiviral aspect of lemon balm is only found in FRESH > or tinctures made > from the fresh herb. The bottles must state that. I > make my own after > starting with commercially available tinctures. > > mjh > " The Basil Book " > _http://foxhillfarm.us/FireBasil/_ > (http://foxhillfarm.us/FireBasil/) > > > _Re: Looking for anti-viral aid _ > (/message/105508;_ylc=X3oDMTJxODl\ hMWRpBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzkxNTc0BGdyc > HNwSWQDMTYwMDA2MTY0NQRtc2dJZAMxMDU1MDgEc2VjA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTE1NjU > 4MTM5OQ--) > Posted by: " marti_zavala " _marti_zavala@... _ > (mailto:marti_zavala@...?Subject= > Re:%20Looking%20for%20anti-viral%20aid) _marti_zavala _ > > (marti_zavala) > Fri Aug 25, 2006 11:11 pm (PST) > No, I have not tried any of the items mentioned thus > far. I am > really out of it. I try to stay with herbals but I > somehow missed > the Lemon Balm. > > I have heard of amantadine but no luteolin. > > Definitely have a lot of research to do. > > Marti > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 26, 2006 Report Share Posted August 26, 2006 Chinese wolfberreis are MUCH better , they also have the highest antioxidant capacity of all known fruits. I think you should research them . > > > Marti > > > > When you search these archives you will find that I have > > many times written > > about my use of officinalis tincture (lemon balm) > > to bring very high > > titres of Epstein-Barr and Cytomegalovirus down. I was > > not tested for other > > members of the Herpes family and could not afford the > > $425.00/month cost of > > the pharmaceutical prescribed. > > > > The antiviral aspect of lemon balm is only found in FRESH > > or tinctures made > > from the fresh herb. The bottles must state that. I > > make my own after > > starting with commercially available tinctures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 26, 2006 Report Share Posted August 26, 2006 Hi, . Selenium might be worth a try for sackie, based on Prof. Harry 's theory. The Institute of Medicine recommends an upper limit of 400 micrograms per day for adults. Rich > > Still looking for evidence that anything is effective against > sackie and enteroviruses. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 26, 2006 Report Share Posted August 26, 2006 Are wolfberries the same as goji berries? My acupuncturist just gave me some. Quite tasty. Helen > > > > Blueberries are good - chelation helps a great deal as does > > removing yourself from the electrosmog! Also increasing > > your Natural Killer Cell count should help since natural > > killer cells attack virally infected cells. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 27, 2006 Report Share Posted August 27, 2006 So, DAvid; It is not totally not heated. It is heated to some low temp. This is as I imagined. Thank you for the clarification. Adrienne Re: Looking for anti-viral aid Hi, Adrienne. " Adrienne G. " <duckblossm@...> wrote: > > DAvid, > Thanks, but if it is not heated at all, how is it turned from a liquid into a powder? That sounds like an awful lot of evaporation. > Adrienne ***Probably a lot of careful low temp managed evaporation indeed. I don't know the exact process but given the guy who makes RenewPro for instance is a PhD scientist specializing in nondenatured wheys, I'm sure he's figured out at what temperature specifically below which he can dry the stuff without producing an oxidized whey. ***His product certainly proves him right. *** > From: davidhall2020 > " Adrienne G. " <duckblossm@> wrote: > > > > DAvid, do you happen to know the difference in processing between Non-denatured and Un denatured? > > Thanks, > > Adrienne > > ***Yes. Nondenatured whey products like RenewPro DO NOT go through a process of heating which is oxidizing and render disulfide bonding between cysteine molecules, producing cystine. > > ***Denatured or undenatured mean this heating process has occurred and cystine rather than cysteine is in the product. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 27, 2006 Report Share Posted August 27, 2006 Hi, Adrienne. There is also a process known as freeze-drying. This involves freezing the substance and then putting it under a vacuum, so that the water sublimes. I don't know if this process is used for this product, but you don't have to heat to get rid of water if you use a vacuum. Rich > > > > > > DAvid, do you happen to know the difference in processing between Non-denatured and Un denatured? > > > Thanks, > > > Adrienne > > > > ***Yes. Nondenatured whey products like RenewPro DO NOT go through a process of heating which is oxidizing and render disulfide bonding between cysteine molecules, producing cystine. > > > > ***Denatured or undenatured mean this heating process has occurred and cystine rather than cysteine is in the product. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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