ADHD Anyone with CFS been diagnosed with this

[Guest guest]

I was at my Doctor's today (an incredibly helpful physician). He

asked me to look into a possibility of ADHD and whether people with

CFS get diagnosed with it and whether Ritalin (or some other related

drug) can improve the brain functioning of CFS patients.

Anyone have any advice on that? I don't want ot start taking Ritalin

without knowing more about it.

Thanks,

Lynn

[Guest guest]

Hi Lynn,

I tried Ritalin in a tiny dose, and did experience some better focus, but it

made my muscle spasms worse.

THis is typical for some who take ADHD drugs, even not PWCs.

I also tried Adderal? I basicly jumped up and started organising my whole

house, almost running. This was very exciting, as generally I have about zero

organising ability. However, it also gave me chest pains.

These drugs are very dangerous for the heart, and more is coming out about this,

especially for all of the children/young people that are prescribed them today.

My doctor does not want me taking any of them now.

What I have generally seen from CFS/CFIDS Specialists, even before the

Cardiomyopathy findings, is precaution about using stimulants for the brain, if

at all.

A Naturopath I saw in the early 90s had also precautioned against stimulants,

even herbal.

She said they can fry the brain more than it is already. I am grateful to her

for that advice in the early CFS years, and not seeing any CFS Specialist

I posted something very helpful from Dr. Bell, a long term CFS/CFIDS

Specialist that's related...it's in fairly recent archives.

Take care,

Katrina

>

> I was at my Doctor's today (an incredibly helpful physician). He

> asked me to look into a possibility of ADHD and whether people with

> CFS get diagnosed with it and whether Ritalin (or some other related

> drug) can improve the brain functioning of CFS patients.

>

> Anyone have any advice on that? I don't want ot start taking Ritalin

> without knowing more about it.

>

> Thanks,

> Lynn

>

[Guest guest]

I would stay away from Ritalin and similar drugs big time. There are

natural ways to help with ADD/ADHD and avoiding the risks and side effects

associated with the drugs.

How does coffee affect your brain functioning?

Is the diagnosis of ADHD via a QUEEG or neuropsych test? SPECT scan?

mjh

" The Basil Book "

_http://foxhillfarm.us/FireBasil/_ (http://foxhillfarm.us/FireBasil/)

Posted by: " tloyd61275 " _cultureshift@... _

(mailto:cultureshift@...?Subject=Re:

ADHD%20%20Anyone%20with%20CFS%20been%20diagnosed%20with%20this) _tloyd61275 _

(tloyd61275)

Wed Aug 23, 2006 6:02 am (PST)

I was at my Doctor's today (an incredibly helpful physician). He

asked me to look into a possibility of ADHD and whether people with

CFS get diagnosed with it and whether Ritalin (or some other related

drug) can improve the brain functioning of CFS patients.

Anyone have any advice on that? I don't want ot start taking Ritalin

without knowing more about it.

Thanks,

Lynn

[Guest guest]

check out www.brainplace.com

Dr. Amen is an authority on adhd, theres an online questionnaire

that you can take.

Per

>

> I was at my Doctor's today (an incredibly helpful physician). He

> asked me to look into a possibility of ADHD and whether people with

> CFS get diagnosed with it and whether Ritalin (or some other related

> drug) can improve the brain functioning of CFS patients.

>

> Anyone have any advice on that? I don't want ot start taking Ritalin

> without knowing more about it.

>

> Thanks,

> Lynn

>

[Guest guest]

Lynn,

It's possible that you have ADHD. I know I have it, because I saw

symptoms of ADHD long before chronic fatigue set in. You may want to try

stimulants, (Ritalin, Adderal, Wellbutrin) because they definitely help for

ADHD, and in my opinion, most things are worth a try.

When I developed CFS, my memory, attention span, and sense of

restlessness all got radically worse, and that's when I sought treatment for

ADHD. I tried Ritalin and Adderal, and while they gave me more energy, they

didn't help my attention, and they didn't fix my chronic fatigue. It was

akin to how caffeine gives me pep but doesn't fix my fatigue.

But who cares about me? There's a study that tested Ritalin as a

therapy for

CFS<http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed & cmd=Retrieve & dopt=Ab\

stractPlus & list_uids=16443425 & query_hl=2 & itool=pubmed_docsum>.

The study included 60 patients, so it's neither a small study nor a large

one. At a relatively low dose, 17% of the group had improved fatigue, and

22% had improved concentration. This suggests that, for most people, the

attention deficit and cognitive difficulties in CFS are different than those

in ADHD. If you want the PDF for that study, I can email it to you.

Back to my personal experience, I'm currently taking Wellbutrin, and I

like the effects. Wellbutrin is an antidepressant that acts on

norepinephrine and dopamine, the same chemicals that Ritalin and Adderal

work with. Subjectively, Wellbutrin feels much, much smoother, happier, and

makes me feel less anxious, not more anxious. It's good. It's improved my

mood, and somewhat helped my fatigue.

Wellbutrin hasn't been tested in CFS, but somebody did just publish a

case report, for whatever that's worth. In a single patient with CFS and

major depression, Wellbutrin and an SSRI quickly relieved the patient's

symptoms.<http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed & cmd=Retrieve & d\

opt=AbstractPlus & list_uids=16871471 & query_hl=5 & itool=pubmed_docsum>

Good luck,

Steve W.

[Guest guest]

I do not have ADHD, but coincidentally, my son does have it. He stopped all

meds in the 9th grade, and hyperfocuses on what his strengths are. Computers

are his " ritalin " now. A funny story.. he is getting married and his fiancee

did not want him to bring his laptaop on the honeymoon. She said it was NOT

COMING or there would be no wedding. He said it was coming or she would not

want to be with him on the honeymoon. I took her aside and explained why he had

to have it with him, and she established some rules and guidelines for him

bringing it. He works in computers and is extremely successful at a very young

age. As the Mom of an ADHD kid, you can understand why I am very proud of

him. There were years of agony when I thought he wopuld have a miserable life

and not even hold a job.

I take provigil. With this CFS, I cannot concentrate

without it. When I have tried ritalin or dexadrine, after a few days, I feel

very

sick from it. Very tired and worn out. It makes me worse.

Carol in NY

[Guest guest]

Steve

At a lower cost with fewer side effects and withdrawal challenges than

Wellbutrin.....

the amino acid, SAM-e, also helps with norepinephrine and dopamine as well

as serotonin. And, it also has known liver and joint benefits. SAM-e does

not make people hyper or anxious.

I too deal with ADD/ADHD.

mjh

" The Basil Book "

_http://foxhillfarm.us/FireBasil/_ (http://foxhillfarm.us/FireBasil/)

Back to my personal experience, I'm currently taking Wellbutrin, and I

like the effects. Wellbutrin is an antidepressant that acts on

norepinephrine and dopamine, the same chemicals that Ritalin and Adderal

work with. Subjectively, Wellbutrin feels much, much smoother, happier, and

makes me feel less anxious, not more anxious. It's good. It's improved my

mood, and somewhat helped my fatigue.

[Guest guest]

I don't know much about these things at all, but a recent conversation

with a toxicologist and other, more personal experiences had me

thinking about a mold > ADHD and a mold > CFS connection..

He felt there was a connection because, many times, he has seen kids

in apartment complexes that have mold problems develop ADHD symptoms

which - when they start going to school and are treated - reportedly

respond to ADHD drugs.

And these symptoms sometimes appear to be more or less permanent...

As far as my own research goes I have read many times that CFS is

indistinguishable, in terms of symptoms, from trichothecene

mycotoxicosis. Many people seem to think that mold caused their CFS

and/or MCS, but this is to say the least, controversial because of its

implications. (It would require a massive change in how we look at

CFS, for example..)

Also, noted mold doctor Dr. Rich Shoemaker (of Mold Warriors fame) and

I am sure, many other doctors have been treating CFS patients with

cholestyramine. (like mold patients are) and a search on CFS and

cholestyramine brought up a number of personal stories of CFS

sufferers who had been helped by it..

However, according to Dr. Shoemaker, mold can cause permanent damage

to the brain.. and some of his colleagues are beginning to be able to

image these changes...using the latest imaging tools..

Trichothecenes are produced by molds like stachybotrys and fusarium.

I also know that if you go to mycotoxicosis.com the list of symptoms

there of aflatoxin and ochratoxin exposure symptoms include permananet

changes (decreases) in neurotransmitter levels.. including dopamine

and norepinephrine (ADHD) and serotonin..(depression, anxiety,

insomnia)

Have you folks ever thought that CFS might be caused by (hidden) mold

exposure in some people?

On 8/22/06, tloyd61275 <cultureshift@...> wrote:

> I was at my Doctor's today (an incredibly helpful physician). He

> asked me to look into a possibility of ADHD and whether people with

> CFS get diagnosed with it and whether Ritalin (or some other related

> drug) can improve the brain functioning of CFS patients.

>

> Anyone have any advice on that? I don't want ot start taking Ritalin

> without knowing more about it.

>

> Thanks,

> Lynn

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

would definetly be the one to address with this. I think mold may play a

part for some of us, but a cause? That's a little more difficult to nail down.

LiveSimply <quackadillian@...> wrote: I don't know much about

these things at all, but a recent conversation

with a toxicologist and other, more personal experiences had me

thinking about a mold > ADHD and a mold > CFS connection..

He felt there was a connection because, many times, he has seen kids

in apartment complexes that have mold problems develop ADHD symptoms

which - when they start going to school and are treated - reportedly

respond to ADHD drugs.

And these symptoms sometimes appear to be more or less permanent...

As far as my own research goes I have read many times that CFS is

indistinguishable, in terms of symptoms, from trichothecene

mycotoxicosis. Many people seem to think that mold caused their CFS

and/or MCS, but this is to say the least, controversial because of its

implications. (It would require a massive change in how we look at

CFS, for example..)

Also, noted mold doctor Dr. Rich Shoemaker (of Mold Warriors fame) and

I am sure, many other doctors have been treating CFS patients with

cholestyramine. (like mold patients are) and a search on CFS and

cholestyramine brought up a number of personal stories of CFS

sufferers who had been helped by it..

However, according to Dr. Shoemaker, mold can cause permanent damage

to the brain.. and some of his colleagues are beginning to be able to

image these changes...using the latest imaging tools..

Trichothecenes are produced by molds like stachybotrys and fusarium.

I also know that if you go to mycotoxicosis.com the list of symptoms

there of aflatoxin and ochratoxin exposure symptoms include permananet

changes (decreases) in neurotransmitter levels.. including dopamine

and norepinephrine (ADHD) and serotonin..(depression, anxiety,

insomnia)

Have you folks ever thought that CFS might be caused by (hidden) mold

exposure in some people?

On 8/22/06, tloyd61275 <cultureshift@...> wrote:

> I was at my Doctor's today (an incredibly helpful physician). He

> asked me to look into a possibility of ADHD and whether people with

> CFS get diagnosed with it and whether Ritalin (or some other related

> drug) can improve the brain functioning of CFS patients.

>

> Anyone have any advice on that? I don't want ot start taking Ritalin

> without knowing more about it.

>

> Thanks,

> Lynn

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

On Aug 24, 2006, at 11:32 AM, LiveSimply wrote:

> I don't know much about these things at all, but a recent conversation

> with a toxicologist and other, more personal experiences had me

> thinking about a mold > ADHD and a mold > CFS connection..

>

> He felt there was a connection because, many times, he has seen kids

> in apartment complexes that have mold problems develop ADHD symptoms

> which - when they start going to school and are treated - reportedly

> respond to ADHD drugs...

> ...I also know that if you go to mycotoxicosis.com the list of

> symptoms

> there of aflatoxin and ochratoxin exposure symptoms include permananet

> changes (decreases) in neurotransmitter levels.. including dopamine

> and norepinephrine (ADHD) and serotonin..(depression, anxiety,

> insomnia)

>

> Have you folks ever thought that CFS might be caused by (hidden) mold

> exposure in some people?

Yes. We've got a member here () who is one of the featured cases

in Dr. Shoemaker's book " Mold Warriors, " and has been very

encouraging in helping many of us plow this particular field. We're

quite familiar with the basics of the theory.

I'm interested in your ADHD/mold connection, though. This is timely

for me: I talked to Dr. Tenenbaum of the LA FFC on Tuesday, and we

had a fascinating exchange about this very thing.

He's been experimenting lately with giving his CFS patients very low

doses (2.5 to 5mcg) of Adderall -- a multi-amphetamine ADHD drug that

works basically as a norepinepherine and dopamine reuptake inhibitor.

So far, he says, he's been having very good success with it. I've got

an Rx on the way, and will probably do a trial of my own in the weeks

ahead.

Of course, I've got some (much) trepidation about this. Historically,

PWCs and any kind of stimulants are just a bad combination. They'll

wire us up and force us to push, propelling us toward the inevitable

crash. But he's talking very tiny doses, spaced way out (Adderall

usually clears in 6 hours; he's suggesting I take it every morning or

even every other morning) -- just enough to keep the norepinepherine

and dopamine levels kicked up a bit.

It's an interesting approach, and your post would seem to validate

the basic logic of it.

I called him because I've been extremely depressed lately -- I mean,

black, scary, deep-funk, sit-in-your-room-for-hours-staring-at-the-

wall, I-just-want-to-die-so-this-will-stop depressed. There's no

anxiety or panic associated with this (I'm quite calm), and no loss

of sleep (if anything, I'm doing too much of that), and my serotonin

levels are good. Which suggests that the problem might very well lie

in some of these other neurotransmitters. For that reason, I'm

willing to give it a go.

Sara

[Guest guest]

Wow Sara, You're describing me to a T unfortunetly for both of us. I used to

see Jay Goldstein who was a huge med giver. You would go to his office and most

of us were too sick to move so his waiting room was filled with lounge chairs.

Every hour or so he'd give you another drug and see what you felt. It was quite

odd, but effective for many. One of the drugs he gave me was ritalin (sp) I

felt so good on it I couldn't believe it, but of course it was a lot and when I

came down was just the same. I don't think I had felt so good in decades.

Mercuria <mercuria@...> wrote:

On Aug 24, 2006, at 11:32 AM, LiveSimply wrote:

> I don't know much about these things at all, but a recent conversation

> with a toxicologist and other, more personal experiences had me

> thinking about a mold > ADHD and a mold > CFS connection..

>

> He felt there was a connection because, many times, he has seen kids

> in apartment complexes that have mold problems develop ADHD symptoms

> which - when they start going to school and are treated - reportedly

> respond to ADHD drugs...

> ...I also know that if you go to mycotoxicosis.com the list of

> symptoms

> there of aflatoxin and ochratoxin exposure symptoms include permananet

> changes (decreases) in neurotransmitter levels.. including dopamine

> and norepinephrine (ADHD) and serotonin..(depression, anxiety,

> insomnia)

>

> Have you folks ever thought that CFS might be caused by (hidden) mold

> exposure in some people?

Yes. We've got a member here () who is one of the featured cases

in Dr. Shoemaker's book " Mold Warriors, " and has been very

encouraging in helping many of us plow this particular field. We're

quite familiar with the basics of the theory.

I'm interested in your ADHD/mold connection, though. This is timely

for me: I talked to Dr. Tenenbaum of the LA FFC on Tuesday, and we

had a fascinating exchange about this very thing.

He's been experimenting lately with giving his CFS patients very low

doses (2.5 to 5mcg) of Adderall -- a multi-amphetamine ADHD drug that

works basically as a norepinepherine and dopamine reuptake inhibitor.

So far, he says, he's been having very good success with it. I've got

an Rx on the way, and will probably do a trial of my own in the weeks

ahead.

Of course, I've got some (much) trepidation about this. Historically,

PWCs and any kind of stimulants are just a bad combination. They'll

wire us up and force us to push, propelling us toward the inevitable

crash. But he's talking very tiny doses, spaced way out (Adderall

usually clears in 6 hours; he's suggesting I take it every morning or

even every other morning) -- just enough to keep the norepinepherine

and dopamine levels kicked up a bit.

It's an interesting approach, and your post would seem to validate

the basic logic of it.

I called him because I've been extremely depressed lately -- I mean,

black, scary, deep-funk, sit-in-your-room-for-hours-staring-at-the-

wall, I-just-want-to-die-so-this-will-stop depressed. There's no

anxiety or panic associated with this (I'm quite calm), and no loss

of sleep (if anything, I'm doing too much of that), and my serotonin

levels are good. Which suggests that the problem might very well lie

in some of these other neurotransmitters. For that reason, I'm

willing to give it a go.

Sara

[Guest guest]

Lynn,

It's possible that you have ADHD. I know I have it, because I saw

symptoms of ADHD long before chronic fatigue set in. You may want to try

stimulants, (Ritalin, Adderal, Wellbutrin) because they definitely help for

ADHD, and in my opinion, most things are worth a try.

When I developed CFS, my memory, attention span, and sense of

restlessness all got radically worse, and that's when I sought treatment for

ADHD. I tried Ritalin and Adderal, and while they gave me more energy, they

didn't help my attention, and they didn't fix my chronic fatigue. It was

akin to how caffeine gives me pep but doesn't fix my fatigue.

But who cares about me? There's a study that tested Ritalin as a

therapy for CFS

<http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed & cmd=Retrieve & dopt=Abstr\

actPlus & list_uids=16443425 & query_hl=2 & itool=pubmed_docsum>.

The study included 60 patients, so it's neither a small study nor a large

one. At a relatively low dose, 17% of the group had improved fatigue, and

22% had improved concentration. This suggests that, for most people, the

attention deficit and cognitive difficulties in CFS are different than those

in ADHD. If you want the PDF for that study, I can email it to you.

Back to my personal experience, I'm currently taking Wellbutrin, and I

like the effects. Wellbutrin is an antidepressant that acts on

norepinephrine and dopamine, the same chemicals that Ritalin and Adderal

work with. Subjectively, Wellbutrin feels much, much smoother, happier, and

makes me feel less anxious, not more anxious. It's good. It's improved my

mood, and somewhat helped my fatigue.

Wellbutrin hasn't been tested in CFS, but somebody did just publish a

case report, for whatever that's worth. In a single patient with CFS and

major depression, Wellbutrin and an SSRI quickly relieved the patient's

symptoms.<http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed & cmd=Retrieve & d\

opt=AbstractPlus & list_uids=16871471 & query_hl=5 & itool=pubmed_docsum>

Good luck,

Steve W.

[Guest guest]

Hi Steve. I think we should be careful when we throw around names of

drugs so easily and lump them together with other drugs.

Wellbutrin is an antidepressant. Please read up on and study

potential side effects of this

http://www.drugs.com/wellbutrin.html

and any other pharmaceutical drug you're contemplating ingesting.

Also consider the stories you learn from people who have taken the

drug and then had to, or decided to, back down from it. Frequently

the trip back makes people consider the apparent " value " perceived

when taking the drug initially. Many decide that the apparent

initial value was not worth it and probably was a misperception in

the first place.

in Champaign IL

>

> Lynn,

> It's possible that you have ADHD. I know I have it, because I

saw

> symptoms of ADHD long before chronic fatigue set in. You may want

to try

> stimulants, (Ritalin, Adderal, Wellbutrin) because they definitely

help for

> ADHD, and in my opinion, most things are worth a try.

[Guest guest]

Sara

Start DLPA very slowly. At best, I can tolerate 500 mg a couple of times a

week without heart involvement. l-Tyrosine may be helpful andbetter

tolerated.

mjh

" The Basil Book "

_http://foxhillfarm.us/FireBasil/_ (http://foxhillfarm.us/FireBasil/)

Yep. Dr. T and I discussed the DLPA option, too. Thanks for reminding

me -- that's one experiment I can start tomorrow.

[Guest guest]

DLPA (dl-phenylalanine) is an amino acid that does a number of

positive things.. it acts as a precursor of norepinephine and

dopamine, especially if taken in the morning on an empty stomach.. it

also acts to slow the elimination of natural painkillers from the

body, so it helps relieve pain..

It also helps block somewhat the toxicity in the body of neurotoxic

ochratoxins (which can be found in indoor environments)

These are all positive things, I'd suspect, for many..

[Guest guest]

On Aug 24, 2006, at 2:35 PM, LiveSimply wrote:

> DLPA (dl-phenylalanine) is an amino acid that does a number of

> positive things.. it acts as a precursor of norepinephine and

> dopamine, especially if taken in the morning on an empty stomach.. it

> also acts to slow the elimination of natural painkillers from the

> body, so it helps relieve pain..

>

> It also helps block somewhat the toxicity in the body of neurotoxic

> ochratoxins (which can be found in indoor environments)

Yep. Dr. T and I discussed the DLPA option, too. Thanks for reminding

me -- that's one experiment I can start tomorrow.

But he didn't make the mold connection, which I think is a

potentially fascinating one.

My husband has been reading Mold Warriors, and is about 90% convinced

I've got a mild-to-moderate case of biotoxin illness going. He's in

the process of making sure all the recommended tests get done. I

think we're over halfway there now, and the early returns would seem

to support that I've got at least some mold stuff going on. If it is

a problem, it's not a huge one; but we're on track to get it addressed.

Sara

[Guest guest]

Have you tried cholestyramine? That has helped me tremendously.

Not only does it reduce that toxicity level.. which is something you

feel..you feel that process going on.. but - after that, when the old

toxic buildup is gone, it also TRAINS you to RECOGNIZE where any new

exposure is coming from.. because now when I get new exposure I can

tell because the inflammation tells me.. Before I was inflamed all

the time..everywhere..

[Guest guest]

Did the inflamation feel like parasthesia. I burn, prickle, itch and generally

feel crawly all the time and goose bumps pop up for no reason whatsoever. It's

as if my whole body is asleep, you know like your foot or something when it's

waking up and prickles you. It's driving me mad.

LiveSimply <quackadillian@...> wrote: Have you tried

cholestyramine? That has helped me tremendously.

Not only does it reduce that toxicity level.. which is something you

feel..you feel that process going on.. but - after that, when the old

toxic buildup is gone, it also TRAINS you to RECOGNIZE where any new

exposure is coming from.. because now when I get new exposure I can

tell because the inflammation tells me.. Before I was inflamed all

the time..everywhere..

[Guest guest]

On Aug 24, 2006, at 5:52 PM, foxhillers@... wrote:

> Sara

>

> Start DLPA very slowly. At best, I can tolerate 500 mg a couple

> of times a

> week without heart involvement. l-Tyrosine may be helpful andbetter

> tolerated.

>

I've taken tyrosine in the past, and didn't notice that it did squat

one way or the other. Just sorta nothin'.

500 mg sounds like a lot. I think my capsules are 200s -- plenty to

start with, I think. It's also possible DLPA is on my CYP3A4 no-no

list, which would mean that " caution " is much to light a word.

Sara

[Guest guest]

It depended on what kind of exposure I was getting - when it was

inhalational, the entire upper

part of my body was hot and burning.. when I was getting skin

absorbtion, my hands or whatever would turn red and burn.. I would

notice a change in my skin too, its hard to describe..

Now, months later, my hands are still numb, I have much less feeling

in my hands than I used to.. I also have a numb spot on my left leg

where my leg used to make contact with the side of the bathtub that

was right underneath a crack in my bathroom wall that had stachy

behind it.. elsewhere I seem to have normal skin feeling.. Also my

sense of smell is shot.. except for mold smells which paradoxically, I

seem very sensitive to.. go figure..And I have a lot of dark spots in

my right eye.. VCS is also much worse for my right eye than left..

BTW, I used to have that prickly, tingly feeling in my hands and feet

all the time, esp. in the morning for years.. hands and feet were also

very cold.. and numb at least half of each day..

The cholestyramine and especially, getting out of that

place..gradually reduced that.. I still get the tingling sometimes,

but its nowhere near as bad as it was then..

I also got goose bumps.. nausea, carsick all the time, weakness, joint

pain, rashes, easy bruising, ringing in my ears, headaches, holes in

my memory.. It was defintely the mold..

On 8/24/06, Edy Rayfield <edyrayfield@...> wrote:

> Did the inflamation feel like parasthesia. I burn, prickle, itch and

generally feel crawly all the time and goose bumps pop up for no reason

whatsoever. It's as if my whole body is asleep, you know like your foot or

something when it's waking up and prickles you. It's driving me mad.

>

[Guest guest]

mjh-

Thank you for suggesting SAM-e. I have seen references to SAM-e as

an antidepressant, but I hadn't heard about its utility in ADHD. I will

look into it, and scout around for a cheap source. It's quite expensive

at drug stores and walmart and such...

You and are right to point out that antidepressants have side

effects I don't believe that they should be first line therapy or

monotherapy. I've seen people have awful, horrible withdrawl from SSRIs

and multiple reuptake inhibitors. Wellbutrin works differently than any

other antidepressant, though. My psychologist claims that Wellbutrin is

very easy to quit, and produces mild withdrawl, if any. This guy

readily admits that Effexor is a bitch to quit, so he's not entirely

brainwashed by the pharmaceutical industry. Every drug is different,

and in my experience, Wellbutrin has a good risk to benefit ratio. Of

course, every patient is different, so YMMV.

>

> Steve

>

> At a lower cost with fewer side effects and withdrawal challenges than

> Wellbutrin.....

>

> the amino acid, SAM-e, also helps with norepinephrine and dopamine as

well

> as serotonin. And, it also has known liver and joint benefits. SAM-e

does

> not make people hyper or anxious.

>

> I too deal with ADD/ADHD.

>

> mjh

[Guest guest]

Sorry you are feeling that way, Sara. Hope the treatment works. Nothing much

worse than that feeling. I know.

Adrienne

Re: ADHD Anyone with CFS been diagnosed with this

On Aug 24, 2006, at 11:32 AM, LiveSimply wrote:

> I don't know much about these things at all, but a recent conversation

> with a toxicologist and other, more personal experiences had me

> thinking about a mold > ADHD and a mold > CFS connection..

>

> He felt there was a connection because, many times, he has seen kids

> in apartment complexes that have mold problems develop ADHD symptoms

> which - when they start going to school and are treated - reportedly

> respond to ADHD drugs...

> ...I also know that if you go to mycotoxicosis.com the list of

> symptoms

> there of aflatoxin and ochratoxin exposure symptoms include permananet

> changes (decreases) in neurotransmitter levels.. including dopamine

> and norepinephrine (ADHD) and serotonin..(depression, anxiety,

> insomnia)

>

> Have you folks ever thought that CFS might be caused by (hidden) mold

> exposure in some people?

Yes. We've got a member here () who is one of the featured cases

in Dr. Shoemaker's book " Mold Warriors, " and has been very

encouraging in helping many of us plow this particular field. We're

quite familiar with the basics of the theory.

I'm interested in your ADHD/mold connection, though. This is timely

for me: I talked to Dr. Tenenbaum of the LA FFC on Tuesday, and we

had a fascinating exchange about this very thing.

He's been experimenting lately with giving his CFS patients very low

doses (2.5 to 5mcg) of Adderall -- a multi-amphetamine ADHD drug that

works basically as a norepinepherine and dopamine reuptake inhibitor.

So far, he says, he's been having very good success with it. I've got

an Rx on the way, and will probably do a trial of my own in the weeks

ahead.

Of course, I've got some (much) trepidation about this. Historically,

PWCs and any kind of stimulants are just a bad combination. They'll

wire us up and force us to push, propelling us toward the inevitable

crash. But he's talking very tiny doses, spaced way out (Adderall

usually clears in 6 hours; he's suggesting I take it every morning or

even every other morning) -- just enough to keep the norepinepherine

and dopamine levels kicked up a bit.

It's an interesting approach, and your post would seem to validate

the basic logic of it.

I called him because I've been extremely depressed lately -- I mean,

black, scary, deep-funk, sit-in-your-room-for-hours-staring-at-the-

wall, I-just-want-to-die-so-this-will-stop depressed. There's no

anxiety or panic associated with this (I'm quite calm), and no loss

of sleep (if anything, I'm doing too much of that), and my serotonin

levels are good. Which suggests that the problem might very well lie

in some of these other neurotransmitters. For that reason, I'm

willing to give it a go.

Sara

[Guest guest]

I have a lot of experience w. DLPA. After 2 decades I am just figuring out that

I have been regularly overdosing with it. After a couple of weeks off I went

back on as a trial, and I got all the benefits without the distressing side

effects. So I think I will be pulsing it, since I can't buy small enough doses.

But I will research that, too.

Adrienne

Re: Re: ADHD Anyone with CFS been diagnosed with

this

DLPA (dl-phenylalanine) is an amino acid that does a number of

positive things.. it acts as a precursor of norepinephine and

dopamine, especially if taken in the morning on an empty stomach.. it

also acts to slow the elimination of natural painkillers from the

body, so it helps relieve pain..

It also helps block somewhat the toxicity in the body of neurotoxic

ochratoxins (which can be found in indoor environments)

These are all positive things, I'd suspect, for many..

[Guest guest]

Steve, I took oxazepam for 25 years to control generalized anxiety

and panic disorder. Every new doctor I've seen in the last 8 or 10

years has tried to shuttle Wellbutrin onto me. Anything I have to

say is by virtue of anecdote, so I guess the best approach from here

is Google. But...I know that Wellbutrin is one of the drugs that

pharma salesmen have tried to impress doctors with and also that it's

used in geriatric populations to " control the inmates. " Doctors

don't have time to sit around and read research, so they listen to

the salesmen. Yes, anecdotal, but it impresses you when you hear it

and read it.

The best advice is to just investigate and know what you're sticking

in your hatch...before you stick it in your hatch.

>

> mjh-

> Thank you for suggesting SAM-e. I have seen references to SAM-

e as

> an antidepressant, but I hadn't heard about its utility in ADHD. I

will

> look into it, and scout around for a cheap source. It's quite

expensive

> at drug stores and walmart and such...

>

> You and are right to point out that antidepressants have

side

> effects I don't believe that they should be first line therapy or

> monotherapy. I've seen people have awful, horrible withdrawl from

SSRIs

> and multiple reuptake inhibitors. Wellbutrin works differently

than any

> other antidepressant, though. My psychologist claims that

Wellbutrin is

> very easy to quit, and produces mild withdrawl, if any. This guy

> readily admits that Effexor is a bitch to quit, so he's not entirely

> brainwashed by the pharmaceutical industry. Every drug is

different,

> and in my experience, Wellbutrin has a good risk to benefit ratio.

Of

> course, every patient is different, so YMMV.

>

>

[Guest guest]

SAM-e works on the same two neurotransmitters that Wellbutrin does.

For a long time I took between 1200 mg and 1600 mg/day and at most SAM-e was

$75.00/month, about half the cost of the drug it replaced. Check the

archives for more details as I've written about this over the last five to six

years. I do have an unfilled script for Wellbutrin here, in addition to the

costs, it does have side effects that makes me leary.

This is the price of Wellbutrin on drugstore . com

Wellbutrin - _75mg Tablets_

(http://www.drugstore.com/pharmacy/prices/drugprice.asp?ndc=00173017755 & trx=1Z50\

66#info) Quantity Our Price 90 tablets

$131.47 - save 16% ($25.38)

This is the price of SAM-e from iherb.com

_Now Foods, SAMe with B-vitamin, 200 mg, 60 Enteric Coated Tablets_

(http://www.iherb.com/store/ProductDetails.aspx?c=Herbs & pid=NOW-00138)

$39.99 $22.15

My favorite brand of SAM-e, that I bought by the case from late 1999 to

about 2003 is _www.naturesrx.com_ (http://www.naturesrx.com)

SAM-e Rx Ultraâ„¢ 60 Tablets - 200 mg active S-Adenosyl-Methionine, Italian

Tosylate

Quantity in Basket: none

Code: 0010

Price: $19.00

mjh

" The Basil Book "

_http://foxhillfarm.us/FireBasil/_ (http://foxhillfarm.us/FireBasil/)

Posted by: " stephenwylie1 " _swylie@... _

(mailto:swylie@...?Subject=

Re:%20ADHD%20Anyone%20with%20CFS%20been%20diagnosed%20with%20this)

_stephenwylie1 _ (stephenwylie1)

Thu Aug 24, 2006 8:57 pm (PST)

mjh-

Thank you for suggesting SAM-e. I have seen references to SAM-e as

an antidepressant, but I hadn't heard about its utility in ADHD. I will

look into it, and scout around for a cheap source. It's quite expensive

at drug stores and walmart and such...

You and are right to point out that antidepressants have side

effects I don't believe that they should be first line therapy or

monotherapy. I've seen people have awful, horrible withdrawl from SSRIs

and multiple reuptake inhibitors. Wellbutrin works differently than any

other antidepressant, though. My psychologist claims that Wellbutrin is

very easy to quit, and produces mild withdrawl, if any. This guy

readily admits that Effexor is a bitch to quit, so he's not entirely

brainwashed by the pharmaceutical industry. Every drug is different,

and in my experience, Wellbutrin has a good risk to benefit ratio. Of

course, every patient is different, so YMMV.