Re: RichV: Pragmatic question on DNA/RNA testing...

[Guest guest]

Hi Rich,

When you were talking about MCS, you said this about the acute injury result:

>>>>>I suspect that the first group sustained an injury to a

protective membrane in their nasal passages, and this has enabled inhaled

chemicals since then to travel up the olfactory nerve directly into the brain.

This appears to be a very rapid process.<<<<<<

I was wondering if you mean that

is not the case with the toxin build-up group you mention.

I have such a quick/dramatic reaction to chemicals that the olfactory

nerve-to-brain-thing always resonated. Yet, I have not identified an acute

external exposure/injury event. Not that that means there wasn't one.

Before CFS, I had some sensitivity to certain make-ups, but did not notice

anything else until after my worst CFS flare, that left me mostly bedridden for

many years. The MCS appeared and was significant then, but continued to get

worse over the years.

Of course there is some sort of difference between ME/CFS/MCS and MCS, because

chemical avoidance only does not alleviate ME/CFS. It sure does help lessen the

misery factors, tho.

I think I may have MCS improvement by improving microcirculation and blocking

NMDA receptors (with Oxytocin and Ketamine gel). But maybe I'm just better at

avoidance, not sure.

Thanks,

Katrina

you wrote:

I suspect that the first group sustained an injury to a

protective membrane in their nasal passages, and this has enabled

inhaled chemicals since then to travel up the olfactory nerve

directly into the brain. This appears to be a very rapid process.

***I suspect that the second group has genetic polymorphisms in some

of their detox enzymes, and that this has allowed the buildup of

toxins in their bodies. I think this second subset does suffer from

toxin buildup. There are two studies so far that support this

proposition, one by Haley et al in Gulf War Illnesses, and

the other by Gail McKeown-Eyssen et al. in

[Guest guest]

Hi, .

Yes, thank you. That's actually what I meant to say. Also, I think

that instead of " alpha KG, " which means alpha ketoglutarate, Amy

should be saying alpha ketobutyrate. Not a big deal, but they are

different. I'm planning to mention that to her when she's ready to

take questions from me in October.

Rich

>

> Hi Rich,

>

> I also wanted to share this that Amy said on her site regarding

another

> way hydrogen sulfide may rise:

>

>

>

> " If a child has an upregulated CBS, the homocysteine will be

diverted

> from

> the methionine part of the cycle. This will drain the methionine

cycle

> of

> much needed intermediates. It also results in an enhanced

conversion of

> homocysteine. Homocysteine will convert to alpha KG plus cysteine.

If

> the

> body feels that it has sufficient cysteine and that it requires

more

> energy , then the conversion will be to alpha KG and NH3(ammonia)

and

> SH2(hydrogen sulfide). What this means is that children with the

> upregulated CBS can convert the intermediates we need to have for

the

> methionine cycle into excess ammonia. "

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ***The work of Amy Yasko has shown why some people do not do well

> with supplementation of glutathione. They have a SNP that causes

> upregulation of the enzyme cystathionine beta synthase. This

causes

> an overload of the sulfite oxidase enzyme and leads to rises in

> sulfites and hydrogen sulfide, which produce symptoms.

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi, Cort.

Thanks. Your points are well taken. It's difficult for me to walk

away from individuals to take the time necessary to do a good job on

papers. Plus, I keep learning more from the experiences of

individuals. I guess balance is called for.

Rich

>

> Thanks - I'm really looking forward to that MCS paper and will

immediately post in on my website if thats alright with you.

>

> I'm going to continue to press you on that paper on methylation.

You do an enormous amount of very welcome commentary on this support

group - but while its very valuable its kind of here today and gone

tomorrow. Putting together a paper on CFS and methylation would not

only allow people to understand methylation in the context of CFS

(instead of autism) it might save you some time - and, since you

believe this is a valuable option for some CFS patients - would get

the word out to alot more people over time. Your central GSH paper

is doing better than ever on the CFS Phoenix website - this month it

looks like it will get about 500 hits.

[Guest guest]

Hi, Katrina.

Thanks for the information.

Maybe there's more than one way to damage the putative membrane

protecting the olfactory nerve. Maybe in some people it happens by

an acute dose of some chemical, and in others maybe something like

glutathione depletion causes the putative membrane to be less well

protected, and over the course of time the oxidative stress damages

it to the point that it is no longer able to act as a barrier. This

is all speculation, of course, since I don't think anyone has

actually even identified this putative membrane, let alone examined

it histologically to see if it is damaged or not. But something

like this might explain what's going on in MCS.

Yes, I'm with you on the fast transport. The response to chemicals

in a person with MCS is really fast, like a very few seconds. I

think it has to be a pretty direct transport to the brain, because I

think it would take longer to bring the volatile chemical into the

lungs, transport it into the blood, and transport the blood to the

brain, and then import the chemical from the blood to the brain.

Rich

>

> I suspect that the first group sustained an injury to a

> protective membrane in their nasal passages, and this has enabled

> inhaled chemicals since then to travel up the olfactory nerve

> directly into the brain. This appears to be a very rapid process.

>

> ***I suspect that the second group has genetic polymorphisms in

some

> of their detox enzymes, and that this has allowed the buildup of

> toxins in their bodies. I think this second subset does suffer from

> toxin buildup. There are two studies so far that support this

> proposition, one by Haley et al in Gulf War Illnesses, and

> the other by Gail McKeown-Eyssen et al. in

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Rich,

>>Maybe there's more than one way to damage the putative membrane protecting the

olfactory nerve.<<<

I wonder what other ways there are to protect it, or even better, heal it? (I

am, of course working on the glutathione). Is " the putative membrane " right

there in the nose, or further up?

I 1st put the Ketamine gel right there, but I didn't like the smell or the other

obvious drawbacks! Then I put it on the back of my neck, hoping for quickest

access to brain, but there only, it causes a rash.

My Dr.s said neck, chest or forearm, so now I put it on forearm with no problem.

I think it helps, but I'm still experimenting.

One MCS man whiffs peppermint oil in his car, in taffic, and said it helps.

I guess this is like what I have done for several years with " Aromatherapy " .

Spry or inhale essential oils, {which, luckily, I tolerate} , when in toxic

environment.

Sometimes it may simply soothe the mind, body and soul when under assault...no

small matter...but I think it also does something like trick the nerve/brain? or

distract from, beat to the punch, the chemicals?

Not saying it Scientifically, but you might know what mean.

Of course some cannot tolerate any scent.

The fast transport also shows in pretty quick skin response...seconds.

My face turns red, then begins to swell. 1st line immune defense is skin?

The brain or skin are fastest responders for me ...lungs/respiratory come after,

used to even come after muscles, joints.

TC,

Katrina

> >

> > I suspect that the first group sustained an injury to a

> > protective membrane in their nasal passages, and this has enabled

> > inhaled chemicals since then to travel up the olfactory nerve

> > directly into the brain. This appears to be a very rapid process.

> >

> > ***I suspect that the second group has genetic polymorphisms in

> some

> > of their detox enzymes, and that this has allowed the buildup of

> > toxins in their bodies. I think this second subset does suffer from

> > toxin buildup. There are two studies so far that support this

> > proposition, one by Haley et al in Gulf War Illnesses, and

> > the other by Gail McKeown-Eyssen et al. in

> >

>